Obama Supports DNA Sampling Upon Arrest

[QUOTE="With-Hatred"]

so what? Doesn't hurt them in any way unless they commit a crime later

dkrustyklown

By a later crime, do you include, engaging in revolution?

What if the British Crown had access to DNA and biometric information back in the days of the American Revolution? Would those that took part in the Boston Tea Party have been able to remain enonymous and slip back into the general population to the dismay of the British Crown?

With DNA and biometric information available, the British Crown would have been able to identify the conspirators by name. The conspirators would have been arrested, tried, and hung as traitors to the crown. Their lands and wealth would have been seized by the crown and turned over to the Tories. The result would have been a chilling message to the revolutionary-minnded population of the American colonies that would have lessened their morale and made organizing the insurrection much more difficult, if not impossible.

The American Revolution began with secret conspiracies hatched in the basements of pubs. The conspirators carefully hid their identities until the right moment when they could show their faces as true American Patriots. The revolution started with anonymous pamphlets posted using pseudonyms and men in disguises sabotaging British economic interests. It took secrecy and anonymity to get the Revolution started.

I find it interesting that people want to protect their DNA sequences as if it's their social security number or something. What could the feds/cops do with it? Sell it? Who cares? They can't really do anything bad with it... at least not that my immature little self can understand. What's the incentive for planting DNA? I just don't see the big deal. I bet that not a single person in the world could "name" their DNA sequence, so why should they care if the gov't can?

TirOrn

If you knew the things that could be taken from DNA, you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement.

Not sure if you're nutty or what, but what happened during the American revolution isn't exactly relevant to catching criminals, this is a poor analogy at best tbh.

With-Hatred

From the perspective of the British Crown, the American revolutionaries were criminals engaged in treason. So, yes, it is relevant and fitting. When government has the power to label actions "crimes" and their actors, "criminals", then the excuse of fighting crime can be used to justify even the most tyrannical oppression and deprivation of liberty.

If you knew the things that could be taken from DNA, you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement.

MarcusAntonius

Exactly.

Government is comprised of people. People have personal ambitions and motivations. Personal ambitions and motivations provide a reason for corruption.

What's the incentive for planting DNA?TirOm

Seriously? Have you studied the history of human civilization? The elimination of one's enemies is one of the primary motivations that causes people to seek power. Do I really have to tell the great many histories on the matter here? Nero, Caligula, the Medicis, Louis XVI, Henry VIII, Ivan the Terrible, Genghis Khan, Joseph Stalin...do any of these names ring a bell?

Planting DNA would be another way for people in a position of power to eliminate their enemies. History shows us no shortage of powerful men who seek to destroy their rivals.

[QUOTE="With-Hatred"]

Not sure if you're nutty or what, but what happened during the American revolution isn't exactly relevant to catching criminals, this is a poor analogy at best tbh.

dkrustyklown

From the perspective of the British Crown, the American revolutionaries were criminals engaged in treason. So, yes, it is relevant and fitting. When government has the power to label actions "crimes" and their actors, "criminals", then the excuse of fighting crime can be used to justify even the most tyrannical oppression and deprivation of liberty.

[QUOTE="TirOrn"]

I find it interesting that people want to protect their DNA sequences as if it's their social security number or something. What could the feds/cops do with it? Sell it? Who cares? They can't really do anything bad with it... at least not that my immature little self can understand. What's the incentive for planting DNA? I just don't see the big deal. I bet that not a single person in the world could "name" their DNA sequence, so why should they care if the gov't can?

MarcusAntonius

If you knew the things that could be taken from DNA, you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="TirOrn"]

I find it interesting that people want to protect their DNA sequences as if it's their social security number or something. What could the feds/cops do with it? Sell it? Who cares? They can't really do anything bad with it... at least not that my immature little self can understand. What's the incentive for planting DNA? I just don't see the big deal. I bet that not a single person in the world could "name" their DNA sequence, so why should they care if the gov't can?

With-Hatred

If you knew the things that could be taken from DNA, you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement.

You're kidding, right? This is borderline trolling on your part. You cannot possibly be this lacking in knowledge.

[QUOTE="With-Hatred"]

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

If you knew the things that could be taken from DNA, you wouldn't make such an uninformed statement.

MarcusAntonius

You're kidding, right? This is borderline trolling on your part. You cannot possibly be this lacking in knowledge.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Yes. The United States of Sparta.

McJugga

I like the new name. 8)

Not sure... Hell maybe?

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

So if a person is is taken in as a suspect, but later released (innocent) they had the right to sample his DNA for future use.

WTF!, its innocent till proven guilty.

If they are convicted sure, but just picked up...

Pirate700

Using that though, its like why don't you want the government tapping your phone, or watching your every move. I mean if you aren't doing anything wrong then yeah!

Haha. I love all the blind support for Obama in here. Just imagine the backlash that would have occurred over this if Bush come out in support of it. Absolutely pathetic.

[QUOTE="McJugga"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

I like the new name. 8)

chessmaster1989

Not sure... Hell maybe?

again, this isn't the American revolution...

With-Hatred

Truth does not fade with time. History can, and does, repeat itself...repeatedly. The conditions of oppression have occurred, are occurring, and will occur. The assertion that oppression is a relic of the past and that it poses no threat to our future is radically false. We have not evolved past oppression. To the contrary, oppression is alive and well throughout the world. It fades in some places, yet appears in others. It rises, it falls, it ebbs, and it flows. It is a condition to which we, as free citizens, must remain eternally vigilant. To let one's guard down, even for an instant, is to invite oppression and servitude.

This IS the American Revolution. Our Constitution, founded upon the principles of the American Revolution, is still our governing document. What was true in 1776 still rings true today. The American Revolution was an experiment in liberty. That experiment carries on to this day in the form of the United States of America. The experiment in liberty has succeeded thus far in expanding liberty to an ever broader population. Liberty came to the landed colonists, then it came to the landless laborors, then it came to the slaves, then it came to the women. Perhaps liberty will continue to expand to others, we can only hope so. We must make sure, however, that oppression is not allowed to creep unto us in the guise of fighting crime. Our history is a struggle. Our history is an ongoing revolution.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"] We must celebrate! Where shall we dine? McJugga

Not sure... Hell maybe?

Hell is my place. 8)

[QUOTE="McJugga"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Not sure... Hell maybe?

chessmaster1989

Hell is my place. 8)

Needs more AC... I'm sweating bullets here...

Plenty of things can be taken from DNA. This includes a greater ease in catching criminals. Good day.Bitter_Altmer

It also includes greater ease in eliminating political rivals. Good day.

[QUOTE="McJugga"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Not sure... Hell maybe?

chessmaster1989

Hell is my place. 8)

Haha. I love all the blind support for Obama in here. Just imagine the backlash that would have occurred over this if Bush come out in support of it. Absolutely pathetic.

Elephant_Couple

And to be honest, it probably would be the same if it were the other way around. There is no middle ground for people interested in politics. Everyone blindly follows their own party. This is coming from somebody who doesn't even live in America.

More facepalms for Obama.

[QUOTE="Tauruslink"]I think this might actually be a good idea. It could help police catch people who commit crimes. They already take your name, address, picture, and fingerprints when they arrest you. This isn't much different. Mousetaches

If you favor this because "it will be easier to catch criminals," then you won't mind cameras in your home monitoring you and your telephones bugged at all times. After all, you're doing nothing wrong, right?LongZhiZi

Are you afraid of your government?

[QUOTE="Elephant_Couple"]

Haha. I love all the blind support for Obama in here. Just imagine the backlash that would have occurred over this if Bush come out in support of it. Absolutely pathetic.

Bitter_Altmer

And to be honest, it probably would be the same if it were the other way around. There is no middle ground for people interested in politics. Everyone blindly follows their own party. This is coming from somebody who doesn't even live in America.

Obama has had his supermajority and has accomplished next to nothing except more debt. To blame things on a nearly powerless Republican minority is absurd. Perhaps his agenda is being rejected in a bipartisan fashion.

As far as the Palin's, you've got the story all wrong. The Heath family lived near the Canadian town of Whitehorse which had the closest hospital to Skagway at the time, where at the ripe old age of three, she received medical assistance. You sure fell for some easy spin on that one. Yeah, Sarah Palin sure snuck into Canada for her healthcare alright.:|

From the statements you've made, the only one who sounds like they're blindly following anything is you.

Are you afraid of your government?

Bitter_Altmer

Any person that values individual liberty and has even a cursory understanding of history would answer your question affirmatively.

I support this. But only for extremes and only upon guilty sentence.

Battery, Assualt, Rape, Armed Robbery, Kidnapping, I would say those warrant DNA sampling.

But not uppon arrest as sometimes people who did not do anything get arrested simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]

[QUOTE="Elephant_Couple"]

Haha. I love all the blind support for Obama in here. Just imagine the backlash that would have occurred over this if Bush come out in support of it. Absolutely pathetic.

MarcusAntonius

And to be honest, it probably would be the same if it were the other way around. There is no middle ground for people interested in politics. Everyone blindly follows their own party. This is coming from somebody who doesn't even live in America.

Obama has had his supermajority and has accomplished next to nothing except more debt. To blame things on a nearly powerless Republican minority is absurd. Perhaps his agenda is being rejected in a bipartisan fashion.

As far as the Palin's, you've got the story all wrong. The Heath family lived near the Canadian town of Whitehorse which had the closest hospital to Skagway at the time, where at the ripe old age of three, she received medical assistance. You sure fell for some easy spin on that one. Yeah, Sarah Palin sure snuck into Canada for her healthcare alright.:|

From the statements you've made, the only one who sounds like they're blindly following anything is you.

Republican minority. No. Also, were you even alive during the Bush era? I was. While Obama may have left America in even more debt, Bush was the one who done the damage pre Obama ;)

As for your point on Palin, I'm talking about current Sarah Palin, not three year old Sarah Palin. Sure there wasn't a hospital near her currently? Doesn't seem very supportive or patriotic for her turning to Canada for healthcare. Way to go future candidate for U.S President.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]Plenty of things can be taken from DNA. This includes a greater ease in catching criminals. Good day.dkrustyklown

It also includes greater ease in eliminating political rivals. Good day.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]

Are you afraid of your government?

dkrustyklown

Any person that values individual liberty and has even a cursory understanding of history would answer your question affirmatively.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"] I love the hypocrisy too. You do know and notice that Republicans have been blindly rejecting any reforms/bills that Obama has proposed? Such as the healthcare bill... Sarah Palin recently said in a trip to Canada that her and her husband could not afford healthcare until they got union jobs, coming from the same woman who once said that people who could not afford healthcare is a "myth" It shows that republicans will oppose any reforms proposed in the current administration simply because its from a democrat. Not because America needs better healthcare or laws... She even admitted she travels to Canada for her healthcare.

And to be honest, it probably would be the same if it were the other way around. There is no middle ground for people interested in politics. Everyone blindly follows their own party. This is coming from somebody who doesn't even live in America.

Bitter_Altmer

Obama has had his supermajority and has accomplished next to nothing except more debt. To blame things on a nearly powerless Republican minority is absurd. Perhaps his agenda is being rejected in a bipartisan fashion.

As far as the Palin's, you've got the story all wrong. The Heath family lived near the Canadian town of Whitehorse which had the closest hospital to Skagway at the time, where at the ripe old age of three, she received medical assistance. You sure fell for some easy spin on that one. Yeah, Sarah Palin sure snuck into Canada for her healthcare alright.:|

From the statements you've made, the only one who sounds like they're blindly following anything is you.

Republican minority. No. Also, were you even alive during the Bush era? I was. While Obama may have left America in even more debt, Bush was the one who done the damage pre Obama ;)

As for your point on Palin, I'm talking about current Sarah Palin, not three year old Sarah Palin. Sure there wasn't a hospital near her currently? Doesn't seem very supportive or patriotic for her turning to Canada for healthcare. Way to go future candidate for U.S President.

A dyed-in-the-wool partisan, completely devoid of reasoning. We're done.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Obama has had his supermajority and has accomplished next to nothing except more debt. To blame things on a nearly powerless Republican minority is absurd. Perhaps his agenda is being rejected in a bipartisan fashion.

As far as the Palin's, you've got the story all wrong. The Heath family lived near the Canadian town of Whitehorse which had the closest hospital to Skagway at the time, where at the ripe old age of three, she received medical assistance. You sure fell for some easy spin on that one. Yeah, Sarah Palin sure snuck into Canada for her healthcare alright.:|

From the statements you've made, the only one who sounds like they're blindly following anything is you.

MarcusAntonius

Republican minority. No. Also, were you even alive during the Bush era? I was. While Obama may have left America in even more debt, Bush was the one who done the damage pre Obama ;)

As for your point on Palin, I'm talking about current Sarah Palin, not three year old Sarah Palin. Sure there wasn't a hospital near her currently? Doesn't seem very supportive or patriotic for her turning to Canada for healthcare. Way to go future candidate for U.S President.

A dyed-in-the-wool partisan, completely devoid of reasoning. We're done.

What is up with all you people being paranoid?

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Obama has had his supermajority and has accomplished next to nothing except more debt. To blame things on a nearly powerless Republican minority is absurd. Perhaps his agenda is being rejected in a bipartisan fashion.

As far as the Palin's, you've got the story all wrong. The Heath family lived near the Canadian town of Whitehorse which had the closest hospital to Skagway at the time, where at the ripe old age of three, she received medical assistance. You sure fell for some easy spin on that one. Yeah, Sarah Palin sure snuck into Canada for her healthcare alright.:|

From the statements you've made, the only one who sounds like they're blindly following anything is you.

MarcusAntonius

Republican minority. No. Also, were you even alive during the Bush era? I was. While Obama may have left America in even more debt, Bush was the one who done the damage pre Obama ;)

As for your point on Palin, I'm talking about current Sarah Palin, not three year old Sarah Palin. Sure there wasn't a hospital near her currently? Doesn't seem very supportive or patriotic for her turning to Canada for healthcare. Way to go future candidate for U.S President.

A dyed-in-the-wool partisan, completely devoid of reasoning. We're done.

Apparently I am lacking in this knowledge, by the by. Could you please enlighten me as to what can possibly be accomplished with my DNA in your hands?

Your government wants what is best for you.Bitter_Altmer

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's a joke, right?

"Your government wants what is best for you." That's sig-worthy. Government is comprised of people. People are ambitious beings. Government does not seek what is best for me or you. Government seeks what is best for the people in a position of sufficient power to decide government's policy. If you think that government is an inherently altruistic entity, then I suggest that you refresh yourself with the continious history of tyranny that is the norm of human civilization.

Do we need government, in some form? Sure. Do we need to trust government? Absolutely not. Must all authority rest in government? Absolutely not. Unchecked governmental power is the path to slavery.

I do not live in the United States, but I do not see how the government having a sample of your DNA would harm anyone other than criminals.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]Your government wants what is best for you.dkrustyklown

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's a joke, right?

"Your government wants what is best for you." That's sig-worthy. Government is comprised of people. People are ambitious beings. Government does not seek what is best for me or you. Government seeks what is best for the people in a position of sufficient power to decide government's policy. If you think that government is an inherently altruistic entity, then I suggest that you refresh yourself with the continious history of tyranny that is the norm of human civilization.

Do we need government, in some form? Sure. Do we need to trust government? Absolutely not. Must all authority rest in government? Absolutely not. Unchecked governmental power is the path to slavery.

Could you please enlighten me as to what can possibly be accomplished with my DNA in your hands?

TirOrn

I can clone cellular tissue by inserting your DNA into an empty stem cell, thereby creating tissue that contains your DNA. I can then murder a random person and leave the tissue containing your DNA at the scene in order to falsely implicate you in the crime. At this point, you can be stripped of your liberty and locked away and/or executed by judicial means.

If you don't think that this is scientifically possible, then I suggest you look into the matter.

[QUOTE="TirOrn"]

Could you please enlighten me as to what can possibly be accomplished with my DNA in your hands?

dkrustyklown

I can clone cellular tissue by inserting your DNA into an empty stem cell, thereby creating tissue that contains your DNA. I can then murder a random person and leave the tissue containing your DNA at the scene in order to falsely implicate you in the crime. At this point, you can be stripped of your liberty and locked away and/or executed by judicial means.

If you don't think that this is scientifically possible, then I suggest you look into the matter.

[QUOTE="TirOrn"]

Could you please enlighten me as to what can possibly be accomplished with my DNA in your hands?

dkrustyklown

I can clone cellular tissue by inserting your DNA into an empty stem cell, thereby creating tissue that contains your DNA. I can then murder a random person and leave the tissue containing your DNA at the scene in order to falsely implicate you in the crime. At this point, you can be stripped of your liberty and locked away and/or executed by judicial means.

If you don't think that this is scientifically possible, then I suggest you look into the matter.

What is up with all you people being paranoid?

Ragnarok1051

So, is it your assertion that no government in all the history of civilization has ever used its power to oppress the population?

I guess in your view of history, Iran does not exist, World War II was a figment of our collective imaginations, the Dirty War in Argentina never happened, and apartheid was just a minor disagreement as to real estate policy.

And what if you were with someone else and could place you away from the crime? Seriously dude quit being so paranoid. Ragnarok1051

And what if you weren't with someone else to corroborate your alibi?

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

What is up with all you people being paranoid?

dkrustyklown

So, is it your assertion that no government in all the history of civilization has ever used its power to oppress the population?

I guess in your view of history, Iran does not exist, World War II was a figment of our collective imaginations, the Dirty War in Argentina never happened, and apartheid was just a minor disagreement as to real estate policy.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

And what if you were with someone else and could place you away from the crime? Seriously dude quit being so paranoid. dkrustyklown

And what if you weren't with someone else to corroborate your alibi?

You'd obviously be breaking the law if you were gaining access to his DNA, seeing as it would be in the hands of the authorities.Bitter_Altmer

Oh, because governmental corruption does not exist and the authorities never break the law or violate the public trust.

Innocent till proven guilty. I would find it a gross violation of rights to be able to take dna samples of someone not even convicted yet. Whats next? Forced chip implants on all "criminals" convicted or not.

Maybe we'll get a cool facial mark system to identify "criminals" like in Yugioh!

[QUOTE="Penguinchow"][QUOTE="With-Hatred"]

Next the'll be asking for fingerprints......

Use your brain here for a sec, if say, a robbery was commited by a habitual offender, and he/she left some hair behind, a lab could tell us that they were at the scene.

With-Hatred

"You have no reason to be afraid if you're innocent" was the same faulty logic used when people oppossed the PATRIOT act which also violated others rights.

You got all that out of my one sentence? Dude seriously. Ragnarok1051

Yes, I did get all of that from your one sentence. You claim that to fear governmental power is paranoia. In order to make such a claim, then you must believe that governmental abuse of power is impossible. Seeing as that you must believe abuse of power by government is impossible, then it is necessary for you to pretend that all prior governmental abuses of power never occured and are, instead, figments of my imagination.

My point is that governmental abuse of power has happened in the past. This means that it most certainly is possible. If it is possible, then being concerned about such a possibility is most certainly not paranoia. It is vigilance.

One will have to forgive my ignorance, but what is it that can be done with said DNA samples? I honestly don't know, and that makes it difficult for me to form an opinion on this.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"] You'd obviously be breaking the law if you were gaining access to his DNA, seeing as it would be in the hands of the authorities.dkrustyklown

Oh, because governmental corruption does not exist and the authorities never break the law or violate the public trust.