Obama = Weak on the "Spanking" issue?

*sigh* When describing the action as light....that was a general light...as in would be consider by most to be light. Nonetheless, this topic is more about government getting into the business of civilians where it shouldn't.

[QUOTE="Cerebris"]Because here's the issue... THe hand becomes a sign of such fear that if a friend tried to place their hand on your back, you'd think they were going to hit you... I know that was the case for me.Funky_Llama

If the government needs to step in because parents are not doing a good enough job... then so be it.Cerebris

You didn't raise yourself though. Thus you were still under the influence of the poor parenting of your parents (they had to hit you thus they were poor parents) and that is a bad thing. I however raised myself, and though I had to interact with my parent and the issues that occurred, I was on my own essentially, and thus I had never had physical contact as positive because of the stigma and damage inflicted to me upon my parents. My friend was understandably confused when he saw me constantly avoid any touch attempt he made.Cerebris

Regardless, your whole post is an irrelevance anyway.

I understand that. I know that using physical punishment as a first resort is damaging for a child, but not using it entirely is equally damaging. Not everyone can be reasoned with and some actions (like the hot stove) call for it. I'm not advocating beating your child to a pulp, but there is a time and place for a firm, assertive spank.AirGuitarist87

And what exactly is that time?

If your child will not listen to you no matter what, it is quite frankly very likely to be because you apply corporal punishment. One of the interesting results from one of those studies I linked to was that there was a direct relationship between the extent to which corporal punishment was applied and the extent to which the child displayed anti-social behavior later in life - exactly the kind of behavior spanking is intended to prevent.

The fact of the matter is that corporal punishment is an even worse version of "because I said so". It implicitly tells the child that the parent does not think him or her capable of reason, logic, or intelligence of any kind - because if that wasn't the case, the parent would surely explain to the child why he or she should not do something and would try to understand why the child wants to do whatever it is. Corporal punishment does not tell the child why he or she should not do something, and the moment a child is capable of reason, they will quickly move past theunquestioning acceptance that physical pain means you shouldn't do something.

Not my family either and contrary to Gabu's link we have no one depressed or on drugs etc. It's much exaggerated.LJS9502_basic

You can't look at one single family and conclude that the results of a study is false. The results of the study say that, on average, those subjected to an increasingly large amount of corporal punishment develop these problems later in life. That is just a plain fact.

That's one of the biggest problems out there: people looking at a study, going "not the case for me!" and then concluding that the study is entirely without merit.

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]I understand that. I know that using physical punishment as a first resort is damaging for a child, but not using it entirely is equally damaging. Not everyone can be reasoned with and some actions (like the hot stove) call for it. I'm not advocating beating your child to a pulp, but there is a time and place for a firm, assertive spank.GabuEx

And what exactly is that time?

If your child will not listen to you no matter what, it is quite frankly very likely to be because you apply corporal punishment. One of the interesting results from one of those studies I linked to was that there was a direct relationship between the extent to which corporal punishment was applied and the extent to which the child displayed anti-social behavior later in life - exactly the kind of behavior spanking is intended to prevent.

The fact of the matter is that corporal punishment is an even worse version of "because I said so". It implicitly tells the child that the parent does not think him or her capable of reason, logic, or intelligence of any kind - because if that wasn't the case, the parent would surely explain to the child why he or she should not do something and would try to understand why the child wants to do whatever it is. Corporal punishment does not tell the child why he or she should not do something, and the moment a child is capable of reason, they will quickly move past theunquestioning acceptance that physical pain means you shouldn't do something.

Anyway the problem with studies is that researcher actively seek verification of their opinion and ignore what doesn't fit. Plus, one can always find studies stating the opposite.

My parents spanked me and I came out normal, I also didn't turn out to be some sort of delinquent like the kids of parents who wold rather ask there kids about there feelings then discipline them. The government has absolutely no right to tell the people how to raise there children. kingyotoX

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not my family either and contrary to Gabu's link we have no one depressed or on drugs etc. It's much exaggerated.GabuEx

You can't look at one single family and conclude that the results of a study is false. The results of the study say that, on average, those subjected to an increasingly large amount of corporal punishment develop these problems later in life.

That's one of the biggest problems out there: people looking at a study, going "not the case for me!" and then concluding that the study is entirely without merit.

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"]My parents spanked me and I came out normal, I also didn't turn out to be some sort of delinquent like the kids of parents who wold rather ask there kids about there feelings then discipline them. The government has absolutely no right to tell the people how to raise there children. Cerebris

Speaking of lies...

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"]My parents spanked me and I came out normal, I also didn't turn out to be some sort of delinquent like the kids of parents who wold rather ask there kids about there feelings then discipline them. The government has absolutely no right to tell the people how to raise there children. Cerebris

Then how does your studies explain public schools? When schools could discipline the students learned and we didn't have armed battle zones. Now with this new enlightenment we do. Seems a contradiction.

LJS9502_basic

Wait, are you saying that you think that a lack of corporal punishment in schools is what has lead to school shootings?

Anyway the problem with studies is that researcher actively seek verification of their opinion and ignore what doesn't fit. Plus, one can always find studies stating the opposite.

LJS9502_basic

I'm curious, have you actually, you know, looked at the studies? At all? They produce their methodology for a reason: to give full disclosure of what they did so people can come to a conclusion whether or not something in the methodology of the study would have incurred bias. You are speculating about matters when the facts are right in front of you; why do you not just look at what you are speculating about?

[QUOTE="Cerebris"][QUOTE="kingyotoX"]My parents spanked me and I came out normal, I also didn't turn out to be some sort of delinquent like the kids of parents who wold rather ask there kids about there feelings then discipline them. The government has absolutely no right to tell the people how to raise there children. kingyotoX

In fact from December 2007

The American College of Pediatricians has recently put out a statement about their position on spanking children. They agree that spanking is ok to use if used properly. All of this comes in light of the state of Massachusetts looking at banning that form of discipline and the UN trying to get countries to ban it as well.

One pediatrician said "that spanking is most appropriate for children 2 to 6 years old when other milder forms of discipline don't work" and should be rarely used after the age of 10. The ACP has made a handout the goes over their guidelines for spanking kids. It also gives other, milder forms (about 4) of discipline that should be used before spanking.

No, I make a quick review of posts for the time I've been here, and I've been here A LONG TIME... I just have been silent. Do you know of any people accustomed to forums who don't research the posts of the people that respond against them the most OR the people with the most posts? DON'T ASSUME.Cerebris

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Then how does your studies explain public schools? When schools could discipline the students learned and we didn't have armed battle zones. Now with this new enlightenment we do. Seems a contradiction.

GabuEx

Wait, are you saying that you think that a lack of corporal punishment in schools is what has lead to school shootings?

Anyway the problem with studies is that researcher actively seek verification of their opinion and ignore what doesn't fit. Plus, one can always find studies stating the opposite.

LJS9502_basic

I'm curious, have you actually, you know, looked at the studies? At all? They produce their methodology for a reason: to give full disclosure of what they did so people can come to a conclusion whether or not something in the methodology of the study would have incurred bias. You are speculating about matters when the facts are right in front of you; why do you not just look at what you are speculating about?

One pediatrician said "that spanking is most appropriate for children 2 to 6 years old when other milder forms of discipline don't work" and should be rarely used after the age of 10.

LJS9502_basic

...Which is precisely in line with what I have been saying.I see no problem with itas a last resort when your child is at an age where he or she cannot be reasoned with. Once your childhas passedthe age of reason, however, corporal punishment becomes nothing more than an insult to your child's intelligence.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

One pediatrician said "that spanking is most appropriate for children 2 to 6 years old when other milder forms of discipline don't work" and should be rarely used after the age of 10.

GabuEx

...Which is precisely in line with what I have been saying.I see no problem with itas a last resort when your child is at an age where he or she cannot be reasoned with. Once your childhas passedthe age of reason, however, corporal punishment becomes nothing more than an insult to your child's intelligence.

Plus, when children are old enough other punishments are more appropriate and frankly spanking would no longer work anyway.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Then how does your studies explain public schools? When schools could discipline the students learned and we didn't have armed battle zones. Now with this new enlightenment we do. Seems a contradiction.

GabuEx

Wait, are you saying that you think that a lack of corporal punishment in schools is what has lead to school shootings?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Then how does your studies explain public schools? When schools could discipline the students learned and we didn't have armed battle zones. Now with this new enlightenment we do. Seems a contradiction.

ChiliDragon

Wait, are you saying that you think that a lack of corporal punishment in schools is what has lead to school shootings?

Don't care about the improper scoring via public schools, and don't care about your opinions or assumptions. I care about your behavior. The improper acronym in your name, and your post style. As for FunkyLlama's post... you seem to not understnad who "THEM" is. I didn't refer to "THEM" as me. And I skimmed his posts if you must know, but I did read quite a few, as I multi-task incredibly well and have seem him before. I also generally know who is going to reply depending on when they are on, and prepare for their retailiations and thus I know what to do about them. Don't presume to know me, when you obviously don't.Cerebris

You 'skimmed' his posts in the - at the very most - twenty seconds in which you weren't typing your response?

you KNOW ITS WRONG!!!Cerebris

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]I understand that. I know that using physical punishment as a first resort is damaging for a child, but not using it entirely is equally damaging. Not everyone can be reasoned with and some actions (like the hot stove) call for it. I'm not advocating beating your child to a pulp, but there is a time and place for a firm, assertive spank.GabuEx

And what exactly is that time?

If your child will not listen to you no matter what, it is quite frankly very likely to be because you apply corporal punishment. One of the interesting results from one of those studies I linked to was that there was a direct relationship between the extent to which corporal punishment was applied and the extent to which the child displayed anti-social behavior later in life - exactly the kind of behavior spanking is intended to prevent.

The fact of the matter is that corporal punishment is an even worse version of "because I said so". It implicitly tells the child that the parent does not think him or her capable of reason, logic, or intelligence of any kind - because if that wasn't the case, the parent would surely explain to the child why he or she should not do something and would try to understand why the child wants to do whatever it is. Corporal punishment does not tell the child why he or she should not do something, and the moment a child is capable of reason, they will quickly move past theunquestioning acceptance that physical pain means you shouldn't do something.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Then how does your studies explain public schools? When schools could discipline the students learned and we didn't have armed battle zones. Now with this new enlightenment we do. Seems a contradiction.

ChiliDragon

Wait, are you saying that you think that a lack of corporal punishment in schools is what has lead to school shootings?

Yeah, if you look at the research school districts that have banned corporal punishment have better test scores and lower rates of student deliquency than districts where corporal punishment is allowed. Furthermore crime rates have been going down during the time where we've been taking corporal punishment out of schools and trying to decrease it's usage elsewhere. The only place where less spanking results in evil children is in the minds of spanking proponents who have this warped view of reality that all children today are little brats and teens are constantly getting in trouble with the law and growing up to work in dead end in jobs and develop drug addictions.

For the record, I went to a great public high school. We didn't have corporal punishment and the student body was very well behaved. Most kids got good grades and SAT scores and went to good colleges too.

A matter which should be left up to the parents.

NEVER... Parents are idiots in the majority.