Occupy wallstreet / global revolution thoughts? Just saw a bunch of arrests.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

There is a difference in between having strong influence and being able to unilaterally dictate policy.

coolbeans90

If corporations were really that influential they wouldn't be paying on average the second highest corporate tax rates in the world (including loopholes) and the number of regulations wouldn't be at an all time high.

I almost recall stating multiple occasions ITT that corporations didn't unilaterally dictate policy, implying that they weren't to blame everything - the health care law, and the individual mandate in particular, is beneficial to particular corporations at the expense of individuals.

Corporations are most profitable here relative to the rest of the world. The corporate income tax isn't the full extent of policy by any stretch of the imagination. Keep in mind that a great portion said taxation is used to subsidize various corporate entities on numerous occasions, including bailouts.

The theory that politicians and corporations as a whole are intertwined and the facts don't line up.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]My question is why are people blaming Wall Street. The government is the biggest problem.Ace6301

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]So the federal government sets policy and laws. Even ones that are hurting corporations and yet the corporations are to be blamed for everything. That doesn't make sense.

If corporations were really that influential they wouldn't be paying on average the second highest corporate tax rates in the world (including loopholes) and the number of regulations wouldn't be at an all time high.

KC_Hokie

I almost recall stating multiple occasions ITT that corporations didn't unilaterally dictate policy, implying that they weren't to blame everything - the health care law, and the individual mandate in particular, is beneficial to particular corporations at the expense of individuals.

Corporations are most profitable here relative to the rest of the world. The corporate income tax isn't the full extent of policy by any stretch of the imagination. Keep in mind that a great portion said taxation is used to subsidize various corporate entities on numerous occasions, including bailouts.

The theory that politicians and corporations as a whole are intertwined and the facts don't line up.

Corporations have more resources to lobby with, and use it to lobby more they do. The burden of regulation is less cumbersome than most of the western world, and serves to provide an artificial barrier to entry against competition - that's why Philip Morris supported additional tobacco regulations.

It really, really does. That's not to say that there aren't other interests (labor, green, etc), or that there is no regard given to reelection, but politicians juggle well.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]My question is why are people blaming Wall Street. The government is the biggest problem.KC_Hokie

They are rather intertwined at the moment.

Nope, the world is ran by corporations not governments.

Even the corporate world acknowledges it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqN3amj6AcE

"Goldman rules the world"

Holy s***, kuraimen and I are on the same side here.

This is awkward.

I wouldn't quite take it to the extreme he does, though.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I almost recall stating multiple occasions ITT that corporations didn't unilaterally dictate policy, implying that they weren't to blame everything - the health care law, and the individual mandate in particular, is beneficial to particular corporations at the expense of individuals.

Corporations are most profitable here relative to the rest of the world. The corporate income tax isn't the full extent of policy by any stretch of the imagination. Keep in mind that a great portion said taxation is used to subsidize various corporate entities on numerous occasions, including bailouts.

coolbeans90

The theory that politicians and corporations as a whole are intertwined and the facts don't line up.

Corporations have more resources to lobby with, and use it to lobby more they do. The burden of regulation is less cumbersome than most of the western world, and serves to provide an artificial barrier to entry against competition - that's why Philip Morris supported additional tobacco regulations.

It really, really does. That's not to say that there aren't other interests (labor, green, etc), or that there is no regard given to reelection, but politicians juggle well.

So, again, the facts and this theory don't add up.

Holy s***, kuraimen and I are on the same side here.

This is awkward.

I wouldn't quite take it to the extreme he does, though.

coolbeans90

I think you might be coming down with something...did you get your progressive vaccination on time? :P

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

They are rather intertwined at the moment.

kuraimen

Nope, the world is ran by corporations not governments.

Even the corporate world acknowledges it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqN3amj6AcE

"Goldman rules the world"

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]The government is ultimately in change. They set the rules, back certain industries, set interest rates, etc. KC_Hokie

Nope, the world is ran by corporations not governments.

Even the corporate world acknowledges it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqN3amj6AcE

"Goldman rules the world"

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Nope, the world is ran by corporations not governments.

Even the corporate world acknowledges it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqN3amj6AcE

"Goldman rules the world"

kuraimen

So what's your point?

And they still keep making money and getting richer even after one of the biggest recessions in US history.kuraimen

That's the point of business. To make money. They also lost quite a bit during the recession.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]The government is ultimately in change. They set the rules, back certain industries, set interest rates, etc. KC_Hokie

Nope, the world is ran by corporations not governments.

Even the corporate world acknowledges it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqN3amj6AcE

"Goldman rules the world"

Holy s***, kuraimen and I are on the same side here.

This is awkward.

I wouldn't quite take it to the extreme he does, though.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

Nope, the world is ran by corporations not governments.

Even the corporate world acknowledges it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqN3amj6AcE

"Goldman rules the world"

Ace6301

For example, it certainly looks like the 'green' industry certainly has far more political influence than corporations as a whole.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Yea corporations rule the world. That's why U.S. corporations pay the 2nd highest corporate tax rates including loopholes and have the highest number of regulations in history on them now.

KC_Hokie

For example, it certainly looks like the 'green' industry certainly has far more political influence than corporations as a whole.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] Yet are still in positions of very large amounts of power and control over the world economy and politics.Ace6301

For example, it certainly looks like the 'green' industry certainly has far more political influence than corporations as a whole.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]And they still keep making money and getting richer even after one of the biggest recessions in US history.airshocker

That's the point of business. To make money. They also lost quite a bit during the recession.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]And they still keep making money and getting richer even after one of the biggest recessions in US history.kuraimen

That's the point of business. To make money. They also lost quite a bit during the recession.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Yea corporations rule the world. That's why U.S. corporations pay the 2nd highest corporate tax rates including loopholes and have the highest number of regulations in history on them now.

KC_Hokie

So what's your point?

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Again, there is no evidence they have any more power than any other special interest. They have no more lobbyist than any special interest and the corporate laws certainly don't work for U.S. corporation in terms of worldwide competitiveness.

For example, it certainly looks like the 'green' industry certainly has far more political influence than corporations as a whole.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Corporations on average don't lobby anymore than any other special interest. They're paying the 2nd highest corporate tax rates in the world on average (including loopholes) with the number of regulations being at all time high.

The theory that politicians and corporations as a whole are intertwined and the facts don't line up.

KC_Hokie

Corporations have more resources to lobby with, and use it to lobby more they do. The burden of regulation is less cumbersome than most of the western world, and serves to provide an artificial barrier to entry against competition - that's why Philip Morris supported additional tobacco regulations.

It really, really does. That's not to say that there aren't other interests (labor, green, etc), or that there is no regard given to reelection, but politicians juggle well.

So, again, the facts and this theory don't add up.

Money.

Yes, it adds up.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] And they still keep making money and getting richer even after one of the biggest recessions in US history.kuraimen

So what's your point?

Everything points back at the government whether it was the source of the recession or lack of recovery.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]OK...corporations that don't make money are called bankrupt. So they have to make money or evaporate.

So what's your point?

KC_Hokie

Everything points back at the government whether it was the source of the recession or lack of recovery.

Just a point of fact: the green industry is largely just another corporate conglomeration, albeit with conflicting interests with other parts of the energy industry.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

That's the point of business. To make money. They also lost quite a bit during the recession.

KC_Hokie

We are no longer in recession? LMAO have you been missing all that is happening in the world from the Greek bankrupcy, to big unemployment, to increased poverty rates? Certainly things don't look better than in 2009 in fact they look worse and most analysts agree that another big fall is happening soon. There's no turning back now, we are in a permanent recession until further notice if ever..

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] My point is that they are getting richer despite a recession, big taxing and everything else. Corporations rule the world, they certainly control most of what happens in a big scale in the world. And for many of them a recession is a good thing and that's why there's no real interest to change things.Ace6301

Everything points back at the government whether it was the source of the recession or lack of recovery.

What 'crooks'? If they are guilty of something illegal go after them.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Nope, they are getting richer. You have a guy there who says you can pretty much take advantage of a recession. The rich are getting richer like never before. http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/story/CEO-pay-2010/45634384/1kuraimen

We are no longer in recession? LMAO have you been missing all that is happening in the world from the Greek bankrupcy, to big unemployment, to increased poverty rates? Certainly things don't look better than in 2009 in fact they look worse and most analysts agree that another big fall is happening soon. There's no turning back now, we are in a permanent recession until further notice if ever..

He's using the technical use of the term: Two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Nope, they are getting richer. You have a guy there who says you can pretty much take advantage of a recession. The rich are getting richer like never before. http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/story/CEO-pay-2010/45634384/1kuraimen

We are no longer in recession? LMAO have you been missing all that is happening in the world from the Greek bankrupcy, to big unemployment, to increased poverty rates? Certainly things don't look better than in 2009 in fact they look worse and most analysts agree that another big fall is happening soon. There's no turning back now, we are in a permanent recession until further notice if ever..

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]OK...corporations that don't make money are called bankrupt. So they have to make money or evaporate.

So what's your point?

KC_Hokie

Everything points back at the government whether it was the source of the recession or lack of recovery.

This is good food for thought:

link

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]The recession ended mid-2009. Of course pay increased for CEO's in 2010 because we are no longer in recession. coolbeans90

We are no longer in recession? LMAO have you been missing all that is happening in the world from the Greek bankrupcy, to big unemployment, to increased poverty rates? Certainly things don't look better than in 2009 in fact they look worse and most analysts agree that another big fall is happening soon. There's no turning back now, we are in a permanent recession until further notice if ever..

He's using the technical use of the term: Two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] My point is that they are getting richer despite a recession, big taxing and everything else. Corporations rule the world, they certainly control most of what happens in a big scale in the world. And for many of them a recession is a good thing and that's why there's no real interest to change things.kuraimen

Everything points back at the government whether it was the source of the recession or lack of recovery.

And what is your solution? To tax them more or send in commandos to steal their money?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]The recession ended mid-2009. Of course pay increased for CEO's in 2010 because we are no longer in recession. KC_Hokie

We are no longer in recession? LMAO have you been missing all that is happening in the world from the Greek bankrupcy, to big unemployment, to increased poverty rates? Certainly things don't look better than in 2009 in fact they look worse and most analysts agree that another big fall is happening soon. There's no turning back now, we are in a permanent recession until further notice if ever..

This is good food for thought:

link

flazzle

Nope, they are getting richer. You have a guy there who says you can pretty much take advantage of a recession. The rich are getting richer like never before. http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/story/CEO-pay-2010/45634384/1kuraimen

Did you even understand a word I said? :|

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]But we aren't in a recession. It ended two years ago. And corporations exist to make money. Why fault them for doing that? Again, the federal government forces them to pay the 2nd highest corporate tax rates in the world plus there are a record number of regulations on them. And you blame corporations not the government?

Everything points back at the government whether it was the source of the recession or lack of recovery.

KC_Hokie

And what is your solution? To tax them more or send in commandos to steal their money?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

We are no longer in recession? LMAO have you been missing all that is happening in the world from the Greek bankrupcy, to big unemployment, to increased poverty rates? Certainly things don't look better than in 2009 in fact they look worse and most analysts agree that another big fall is happening soon. There's no turning back now, we are in a permanent recession until further notice if ever..

kuraimen

He's using the technical use of the term: Two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.

GDP has gone up, but it has been referred to as a "jobless recovery". The numbers as of late haven't been great, but they're still positive.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Nope, they are getting richer. You have a guy there who says you can pretty much take advantage of a recession. The rich are getting richer like never before. http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/story/CEO-pay-2010/45634384/1airshocker

Did you even understand a word I said? :|

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

We are no longer in recession? LMAO have you been missing all that is happening in the world from the Greek bankrupcy, to big unemployment, to increased poverty rates? Certainly things don't look better than in 2009 in fact they look worse and most analysts agree that another big fall is happening soon. There's no turning back now, we are in a permanent recession until further notice if ever..

kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

He's using the technical use of the term: Two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.

coolbeans90

GDP has gone up, but it has been referred to as a "jobless recovery". The numbers as of late haven't been great, but they're still positive.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Well I think that's like a bouncing ball, of course it bounces a few times (each time lower) before coming to full stop but it is evident it already fell.kuraimen

GDP has gone up, but it has been referred to as a "jobless recovery". The numbers as of late haven't been great, but they're still positive.

Some say we might be looking at a "double dip", but I can't claim to be qualified enough to make a prediction of any value.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]The United States officially is not in a recession. It ended in mid-2009.KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="flazzle"]

This is good food for thought:

link

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] I could care less what the US officially says. World events and reality dictate otherwise.kuraimen

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="flazzle"]

This is good food for thought:

link

Ace6301

My question is why are people blaming Wall Street. The government is the biggest problem.KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

GDP has gone up, but it has been referred to as a "jobless recovery". The numbers as of late haven't been great, but they're still positive.

coolbeans90

Some say we might be looking at a "double dip", but I can't claim to be qualified enough to make a prediction of any value.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]My question is why are people blaming Wall Street. The government is the biggest problem.EntropyWins

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Well there is an official definition for the U.S. and we aren't in one. Throwing the word recession around for the world is just convenient for your argument as there is not indication the world is in a recession either. Recession means the GDP drops. It's flat but not dropping.

KC_Hokie

Governments that work in a world ruled by organizations like the IMF and the WTO. If they don't play by the rules they don't count. Look into the big picture, the Greek government is a minor player here, they don't set any rules they just play by them.