I thought that also when I was a young child.Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
barcx17
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I thought that also when I was a young child.Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
barcx17
If you look, I'm sure you'll find something. There's quite a variety of stuff. Then again you have to be willing to look as well, which just isn't the case for most people, and I don't blame them. I don't look for stuff in the pop-punk or post-hardcore genres either, although I'm sure there has to be a half decent band in there somewhere...Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
barcx17
I really don't understand the appeal of Tool.Not really a metal song, but thistourmented me in high school. At about 6:35 in the song (when it's just the vocals and percussion) is a real bugger to play. The snare/kick stay constant (4/4 timing) while the hi-hats play 3/4 (accents every third-quarter note). It doesn't even sound that complicated, but every drummer I ever knew always has a hell of a time with it.
effena
[QUOTE="effena"]I really don't understand the appeal of Tool.Not really a metal song, but thistourmented me in high school. At about 6:35 in the song (when it's just the vocals and percussion) is a real bugger to play. The snare/kick stay constant (4/4 timing) while the hi-hats play 3/4 (accents every third-quarter note). It doesn't even sound that complicated, but every drummer I ever knew always has a hell of a time with it.
Statutory_AP3
It's a band that requires patience :P
[QUOTE="barcx17"]If you look, I'm sure you'll find something. There's quite a variety of stuff. Then again you have to be willing to look as well, which just isn't the case for most people, and I don't blame them. I don't look for stuff in the pop-punk or post-hardcore genres either, although I'm sure there has to be a half decent band in there somewhere... You need a gateway band lol. For me, I started with The Devil Wears Prada, and then slowly I got into more death metal bands, and now hear I am! An avowed metalhead.Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
Saturos3091
[QUOTE="barcx17"]If you look, I'm sure you'll find something. There's quite a variety of stuff. Then again you have to be willing to look as well, which just isn't the case for most people, and I don't blame them. I don't look for stuff in the pop-punk or post-hardcore genres either, although I'm sure there has to be a half decent band in there somewhere...Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
Saturos3091
I know what you're trying to say, and I've had people try to get me to listen to different metal bands, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I'm not looking to get into it anyway, I'm just happy listening to what I already have. :)
[QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="barcx17"]If you look, I'm sure you'll find something. There's quite a variety of stuff. Then again you have to be willing to look as well, which just isn't the case for most people, and I don't blame them. I don't look for stuff in the pop-punk or post-hardcore genres either, although I'm sure there has to be a half decent band in there somewhere... You need a gateway band lol. For me, I started with The Devil Wears Prada, and then slowly I got into more death metal bands, and now hear I am! An avowed metalhead. I started to listen to "real" music with Dragonforce... Not a very good band to start out with, because I already hate shredding in almost all forms. :lol:Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
Statutory_AP3
It would be more accurate to say I'm not a fan of the use of drumming in most Western popular music. I'm not at all adverse to percussion. In fact percussion was my second instrument at university. Stuff like this is great in my book.
pianist
I gotta say, I can't blame you for thinking thats great. As I watched it I never got bored, (and found it oddly satisfying) which is a hallmark of quality musicianship IMO. That said I love me some heavy music!
Well, I don't know, perhaps it's just that I don't understand the finer side of things, but I've always found anything about art to ultimately be just a case of either "I like it" or "I don't like it" for me. I can talk endlessly about all the reasons why I like something, but, in the end, if someone says "I don't like it", there isn't exactly anything I can do to prove that person wrong.
I've always kinda felt - and I mean no offense by this - that attempting to scientifically analyze and talk about the particulars about something in art is a bit like teaching a robot how to paint. There can be everything present that makes it so that something should be enjoyable, but if it doesn't have that certain really ineffable "spark" in it, I won't like it. I've listened to many people telling me all about the particulars of all the things that classical music does and modern music doesn't, and when I listen to it I can see what they're talking about, but it still doesn't help. At the end of the day, the only measuring stick I'm really capable of using is the question of whether or not I can close my eyes and get lost in the music. The best music for me can be tantamount to a religious experience, and it's really something that can only be experienced, not told.
I don't think it's a question of time, either - like I said, my musical taste has certainly changed somewhat as I've grown older, but to the opposite end of the spectrum, really.
GabuEx
It is only by picking apart music that you can determine precisely what it is that you like about it with any degree of certainty. There's ALWAYS a technical foundation for your musical preferences, even if you don't realize it. And conversely, you can also understand what makes for music you find unenjoyable. If I didn't enjoy metal but had not analyzed what I heard, I could say I didn't enjoy it, but I certainly couldn't tell anyone why that is. And if that were the case, I wouldn't have posted in this thread, because I see no point in coming into a music thread just to say I don't like it. Really, who cares? :P
I take great pleasure in discovering the intricacies that a gifted composer leaves in his works, either intentionally or unintentionally. It's part of the joy of music for me - figuring out WHY certain music is great, instead of simply enjoying what it sounds like. So we're very much in different camps here. I can't imagine why anyone would not wish to fully understand music they enjoy on the technical level.
And I still think that maturity plays a decisive role in the ability to appreciate dense music. You won't find many 10 year olds who can sit through a Brahms symphony without fidgeting in frustration and boredom, even if they come to appreciate the music deeply later in life. Also, you won't find many young children who respond well to metal. Again, they may tolerate it, but they get bored of it quickly if made to listen to it - much more quickly than they become bored of their simple childhood tunes, which they can listen to over and over again.... much to my chagrin at times. It's just like how we are able to listen to our favoured pieces over and over again, except theirs are much easier to grasp, and FAR more musically transparent.
Taste is not something which can be questioned, because it is entirely personal. Many people who have an excellent understanding of music dislike Brahms and love Rachmaninoff. To an inexperienced listener, the two sound very similar... but obviously there are differences that draw certain experienced listeners to one but not the other. With the proper education, though, anyone could figure out what those differences are, and describe what they respond to in the music they love, rather than simply feel an 'intangible pull.'
That doesn't strike me as odd. That's the same reason I didn't like Brahms as a youth - too heavy (or dense as I call it), too noisy. The more you listen to music, the more your brain can find order in 'chaos.' CIassical music is by no means all light and fluffy as the stereotype suggests. And Beethoven's fifth symphony is not the only example of emotional power, nor even the best example, as the stereotype suggests.
This is far more overtly passionate. Not especially light and fluffy. :P
pianist
Oh, I know it's not all light and fluffy. I've heard songs like the one you linked too there. My problem is more what I said before - I've always found that cIassical music strikes me as being too perfect, so to speak. It's the same reason I don't like Yngwie Malmsteen's stuff - while it may be highly technically proficient, it nevertheless feels like there's just something missing, something that I really can't describe. I don't know what it is, but all I know is that when I listen to that song, I just don't feel anything down in my soul in the same way that I do when I listen to things like this. It just feels empty, so to speak.
That's not to say I can't appreciate what people see in it, because I certainly can. It's just fundamentally not what makes me enjoy music.
Not as boring as Nevermore ;) Which is no where near the boredom of Nile:|... I had never seen 40 year olds playing death metal until I listened to Nile. I think some of them are balding also...[QUOTE="Juggernaut140"][QUOTE="Darth-Caedus"] Opeth aren't boring:x St_JimmyX
[QUOTE="barcx17"]I thought that also when I was a young child.Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
Statutory_AP3
But he isn't a child, he is an adult than can choose not to listen to whatever everybody else tells him to.
I thought that also when I was a young child.[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"][QUOTE="barcx17"]
Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
Solid_Link22
But he isn't a child, he is an adult than can choose not to listen to whatever everybody else tells him to.
Sorry, I was just saying that I used to think that way also, but now I listen to metal...I just don't feel anything down in my soul in the same way that I do when I listen to things like this. It just feels empty, so to speak.
That's not to say I can't appreciate what people see in it, because I certainly can. It's just fundamentally not what makes me enjoy music.
GabuEx
Heh. There is something about that band that confuses me, as well. If I wasn't a drummer, I probably wouldn't be into them. Their music seems to focus on being abstract, which is hard to conjour up any emotions.
I thought that also when I was a young child.[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"][QUOTE="barcx17"]
Don't like it. Never have, never will. It just doesn't appeal to me.
Solid_Link22
But he isn't a child, he is an adult than can choose not to listen to whatever everybody else tells him to.
Ay cabron, did you just defend me? :o
Please leave if you are going to be like that.Where's the "It's absolutely f***ing horrible" option?
bangell99
[QUOTE="bangell99"]Please leave if you are going to be like that.Where's the "It's absolutely f***ing horrible" option?
Statutory_AP3
So I can only state my opinions on metal if they're positive?
[QUOTE="Solid_Link22"]
[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"] I thought that also when I was a young child.barcx17
But he isn't a child, he is an adult than can choose not to listen to whatever everybody else tells him to.
Ay cabron, did you just defend me? :o
believe it. anything for my vieja
It is only by picking apart music that you can determine precisely what it is that you like about it with any degree of certainty. There's ALWAYS a technical foundation for your musical preferences, even if you don't realize it. And conversely, you can also understand what makes for music you find unenjoyable. If I didn't enjoy metal but had not analyzed what I heard, I could say I didn't enjoy it, but I certainly couldn't tell anyone why that is. And if that were the case, I wouldn't have posted in this thread, because I see no point in coming into a music thread just to say I don't like it. Really, who cares? :P
I take great pleasure in discovering the intricacies that a gifted composer leaves in his works, either intentionally or unintentionally. It's part of the joy of music for me - figuring out WHY certain music is great, instead of simply enjoying what it sounds like. So we're very much in different camps here. I can't imagine why anyone would not wish to fully understand music they enjoy on the technical level.
And I still think that maturity plays a decisive role in the ability to appreciate dense music. You won't find many 10 year olds who can sit through a Brahms symphony without fidgeting in frustration and boredom, even if they come to appreciate the music deeply later in life. Also, you won't find many young children who respond well to metal. Again, they may tolerate it, but they get bored of it quickly if made to listen to it - much more quickly than they become bored of their simple childhood tunes, which they can listen to over and over again.... much to my chagrin at times. It's just like how we are able to listen to our favoured pieces over and over again, except theirs are much easier to grasp, and FAR more musically transparent.
Taste is not something which can be questioned, because it is entirely personal. Many people who have an excellent understanding of music dislike Brahms and love Rachmaninoff. To an inexperienced listener, the two sound very similar... but obviously there are differences that draw certain experienced listeners to one but not the other. With the proper education, though, anyone could figure out what those differences are, and describe what they respond to in the music they love, rather than simply feel an 'intangible pull.'
pianist
Yes, but I think that that's really the thing: I don't really care, to be perfectly honest, why I do or don't like a piece of music. I could figure it out, and I can certainly talk to at least some lengths about what I like and don't like in pieces of music, but at the end of the day it'd really just be a point of curiosity for me. I know when I like something, and I know when I don't like something; either a piece of music speaks to me or it doesn't. I think that, at the end of the day, there really is an inescapable ineffable nature about what one does or does not like - as you yourself just said, two people can be equally well-educated in music and come to completely different conclusions about what they do or do not think is good.
And I still think that maturity plays a decisive role in the ability to appreciate dense music. You won't find many 10 year olds who can sit through a Brahms symphony without fidgeting in frustration and boredom, even if they come to appreciate the music deeply later in life. Also, you won't find many young children who respond well to metal. Again, they may tolerate it, but they get bored of it quickly if made to listen to it - much more quickly than they become bored of their simple childhood tunes, which they can listen to over and over again.... much to my chagrin at times. It's just like how we are able to listen to our favoured pieces over and over again, except theirs are much easier to grasp, and FAR more musically transparent.pianistDespite me growing up on classical (primarily the more well known artists Mozart and Bach) and moving on to metal, I'd have to agree for the most part. I believe maturity plays an important role in all music, and ultimately understanding what it is that you enjoy above all influences (and should influence) ones preferences. In general, a young child isn't going to like a band like Spawn of Possession or Ulcerate, or Vivaldi or any classical composer for that matter, as none of them are accessible to the listener. While that idea seems to stretch towards older age groups as well, I believe the term accessibility comes back to the idea of knowing why someone can enjoy or not enjoy certain music as you pointed out, and for most the reason why it's likable is: "it's catchy," meaning in general the song is focused on repeated rhythms and vocal tracks, and the reason something is not likable often goes unexplained... I think another primary factor is being open to new experimentations in music. Many people I talk to tend to just go with whatever is being played on the radio, ignoring what isn't or claiming that it is "bad' music, but they can't ever tell you why it is "bad," just that it is. Sometimes I think (and in some cases, know) they consider it "bad" for the sole reason of cultural acceptance, or the acceptance of their peers, which is something that I don't believe should ever factor into musical taste.
[QUOTE="bangell99"]
[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"] Please leave if you are going to be like that.effena
So I can only state my opinions on metal if they're positive?
You can at least be constructive.
Yeah, thats what I meant lol.Many metal guitarists and drummer are extremely talented at what they do.I don't even consider it music..It's just a dude screaming or growling into a mic with so-called musicians 'playing' 'music'.
Lto_thaG
[QUOTE="GabuEx"]
I just don't feel anything down in my soul in the same way that I do when I listen to things like this. It just feels empty, so to speak.
That's not to say I can't appreciate what people see in it, because I certainly can. It's just fundamentally not what makes me enjoy music.
effena
Heh. There is something about that band that confuses me, as well. If I wasn't a drummer, I probably wouldn't be into them. Their music seems to focus on being abstract, which is hard to conjour up any emotions.
Er, actually, I was providing that as an example of a song that did make me feel something. :P
I don't think they're that abstract, or at least that particular song isn't. It seems pretty clearly to me to be about people who get vicarious thrills by watching people's suffering and pain on the TV news:
"For I need to watch things die/From a good, safe distance/Vicariously, I/Live while the whole world dies/We all feel the same so/Why can't we just admit it?"
[QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]Many metal guitarists and drummer are extremely talented at what they do. Yea,yea..but then again I was being sarcastic.Metal runs through my veins 8)I don't even consider it music..It's just a dude screaming or growling into a mic with so-called musicians 'playing' 'music'.
Statutory_AP3
Many metal guitarists and drummer are extremely talented at what they do. Yea,yea..but then again I was being sarcastic.Metal runs through my veins 8) Oh, sorry, its hard to tell sarcasm while reading. Are you being sarcastic right now?[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"][QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]
I don't even consider it music..It's just a dude screaming or growling into a mic with so-called musicians 'playing' 'music'.
Lto_thaG
[QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]Yea,yea..but then again I was being sarcastic.Metal runs through my veins 8) Oh, sorry, its hard to tell sarcasm while reading. Are you being sarcastic right now? Nah,All serious now :P[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"] Many metal guitarists and drummer are extremely talented at what they do.Statutory_AP3
[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"][QUOTE="Lto_thaG"] Yea,yea..but then again I was being sarcastic.Metal runs through my veins 8)Oh, sorry, its hard to tell sarcasm while reading. Are you being sarcastic right now? Nah,All serious now :P Damn lol. Now I think that all you write is sarcasm o.OLto_thaG
Many metal guitarists and drummer are extremely talented at what they do. Yea,yea..but then again I was being sarcastic.Metal runs through my veins 8)[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"][QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]
I don't even consider it music..It's just a dude screaming or growling into a mic with so-called musicians 'playing' 'music'.
Lto_thaG
I think we need a version of Poe's Law for people acting like those who don't like metal. :P
Stops copies me! :evil:My opinion on metal is that I don't need to care about other's opinions on metal to enjoy metal.
I'm going to type metal one more time because it's metal.
Metal.
ngwoo
Yea,yea..but then again I was being sarcastic.Metal runs through my veins 8)[QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]
[QUOTE="Statutory_AP3"] Many metal guitarists and drummer are extremely talented at what they do.GabuEx
I think we need a version of Poe's Law for people acting like those who don't like metal. :P
Yea,no smiley posting=almost impossible too see whether the user is sarcastic or not.Er, actually, I was providing that as an example of a song that did make me feel something. :P
I don't think they're that abstract, or at least that particular song isn't. It seems pretty clearly to me to be about people who get vicarious thrills by watching about people's suffering and pain on the TV news:
"For I need to watch things die/From a good, safe distance/Vicariously, I/Live while the whole world dies/We all feel the same so/Why can't we just admit it?"
GabuEx
Oops. I guess I misread your post and jumped to conclusions. A lot of people say the don't understand the appeal of Tool, or don't "get" them. I myself am one of those people, to a degree.
Vicarious is one of their more digestable songs, both musically and lyricaly, but a lot of their songs like this one just go in different courses of direction and make little sense. Most of the people I've met who are really into Tool are musicians who can grasp the technicality behind it. The phenominal drumming is what I like best.
Yes, but I think that that's really the thing: I don't really care, to be perfectly honest, why I do or don't like a piece of music. I could figure it out, and I can certainly talk to at least some lengths about what I like and don't like in pieces of music, but at the end of the day it'd really just be a point of curiosity for me. I know when I like something, and I know when I don't like something; either a piece of music speaks to me or it doesn't. I think that, at the end of the day, there really is an inescapable ineffable nature about what one does or does not like - as you yourself just said, two people can be equally well-educated in music and come to completely different conclusions about what they do or do not think is good.
GabuEx
OK. But I can't agree, because my own experience with music is different. I would be very surprised if any person who is truly well-educated in music and aural skills could not tell you what the technical foundation is for why he or she likes or dislikes a genre, a piece, or a particular composer. There is not a single piece of music that I respond to unfavourably where I can not figure out what it is about it that doesn't strike a chord with me. Vice versa for pieces I find compelling - I've never failed to identify the technical grounding for whatever it is I happen to enjoy. This doesn't mean that my enjoyment of the music requires this technical understanding, but rather that I can understand exactly why it is appealing to me. I never find myself saying "I just like it. I don't know why."
I love metal, it speaks to be me far more than any other genre. The only metal genres I don't listen to are Nu Metal and Metalcore, which I consider to be total crap.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I don't care for Grindocre or Deathcore much either, but I can handle it if someone else is playing it in the car or something.
OK. But I can't agree, because my own experience with music is different. I would be very surprised if any person who is truly well-educated in music and aural skills could not tell you what the technical foundation is for why he or she likes or dislikes a genre, a piece, or a particular composer. There is not a single piece of music that I respond to unfavourably where I can not figure out what it is about it that doesn't strike a chord with me. Vice versa for pieces I find compelling - I've never failed to identify the technical grounding for whatever it is I happen to enjoy. This doesn't mean that my enjoyment of the music requires this technical understanding, but rather that I can understand exactly why it is appealing to me. I never find myself saying "I just like it. I don't know why."
pianist
Well, certainly, you can say what you like. And you can attempt to say why you like it. But you can never really explain why you like it in such a way that someone else can then go out and like it too. At the end of the day, if two people know all there is to know about a piece of music, and if one likes it and the other doesn't, there's really just plain no reconciling those two opinions. And that's what I mean when I say that there is a certain inescapable ineffeable nature to what one does or does not like. The question of "why?" can be answered to a certain extent, but there eventually comes a point where someone must just say "I like it" as an axiom rather than as a statement needing justification.
I certainly do not discourage people from examining their tastes to their heart's content. I just personally feel that, for me, I would not materially gain enough to merit expending the effort needed to examine my tastes any further than I already have.
[QUOTE="LeGoofyGoober"]Satanic? I don't remember Metallica singing about praising Satan in any of their songs, or Iron Maiden (okay, MAYBE Number of the Beast).satanic music IMO
enterawesome
The Number of the Beast does not praise satan lol. It's about a dream of the bassist, Steve Harris that used to haunt him. He decided to write a song about it and that's what we know today as "The Number of the Beast."
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