Pirating Music (right or wrong)

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

odyssey_divine

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

odyssey_divine

[QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

famicommander

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing by any original definition of Theft.

[QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

Tolwan

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing but any original definition of Theft.

[QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

Tolwan

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing but any original definition of Theft.

And you think pirates would buy music if they couldn't download it in the first place? I *only* buy music that I've listened to before hand. Most pirates have different motives - but I think we can agree that if they aren't spending money on the music in the first place, they never planned on doing it anyways.

Meaning those artists won't see a single cent. Piracy keeps certain genres and certain types of music alive whether you like it or not.

GodLovesDead

Like I said - there is a competitive advantage yielded to those who offer samples of their music for free. But because most of these samples offer only an excerpt of the work, people don't like them, even when it's more than enough to tell whether or not you'll like the music. They want the whole song... so that THEY can decide whether or not they want to pay for it.

Again, I don't know why you're trying to rationalize something which is plainly wrong. In the end, it comes down to the very simple truth that a person who creates something in a capitalist society should have total control over what happens to that something. No other person but the creator has a right to enforce a particular form of distribution on the product without the creator's consent. So distributing someone else's work without his or her consent, however well-intentioned you may be, or whatever good may possibly come of it, is wrong.

It's surprising what people will pay for when they have no choice but to pay for it. If piracy was non-existent, I would imagine many of the people who currently pay nothing at all for their media would actually be paying for some. They wouldn't own nearly as much as they currently do, obviously. But if they care enough about the media to download it in the first place, it stands to reason that they would be interested enough to pay for it if they had to. It's like anything else, really. Lots of people want cars, but can't steal them. So instead of owning one of every type of car, they buy the best one they can afford. And that's how it should be.

Just leave the decision to the creator, that's what I say. You can't really appreciate that unless you yourself are a creator.

[QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

Tolwan

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing by any original definition of Theft.

[QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

Tolwan

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing by any original definition of Theft.

I actually did buy Limewire Pro so my music downloads legal:lol::P:P:P:P:P

Yep...wrong. No discussion needed. Those that pirate do so knowing they are stealing someone else's work....LJS9502_basic

Yeah, that 1 dollar is really going to kill a million dollar making band. :roll:

[QUOTE="Tolwan"][QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

Cube_of_MooN

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing by any original definition of Theft.

I'm not debating our new set of laws and modern morals. I am just saying that this is not Theft, and it is not wrong if we go back to any universally excepted Morals from which all our laws originated.

[QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

Tolwan

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing by any original definition of Theft.

You can bend the words however you wish, but in the end, you are still enjoying someone else's work for free when the work was not intended to be free. I should think a staunch capitalist would be totally against the socialist notion of freely distributing someone else's work and not allowing the person who created the product to reap ALL the benfits of his or her labour... but I guess capitalist idealism is only relevant when it benefits you... right?

I actually did buy Limewire Pro so my music downloads legal:lol::P:P:P:P:P

odyssey_divine

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yep...wrong. No discussion needed. Those that pirate do so knowing they are stealing someone else's work....goodlay

Yeah, that 1 dollar is really going to kill a million dollar making band. :roll:

Theft is theft...if you don't like how much someone makes then don't listen to their music. Period.

[QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

I actually did buy Limewire Pro so my music downloads legal:lol::P:P:P:P:P

famicommander

[QUOTE="Tolwan"][QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

pianist

No, you are infact wrong. We have created a set of new morals to declare Pirating wrong. If i pirate, i steal *nothing*. I am downloading a digital copy. I am not taking anything, from anybody. I am just creating a copy of something for free. I have stolen nothing by any original definition of Theft.

You can bend the words however you wish, but in the end, you are still enjoying someone else's work for free when the work was not intended to be free. I should think a staunch capitalist would be totally against the socialist notion of freely distributing someone else's work and not allowing the person who created the product to reap ALL the benfits of his or her labour... but I guess capitalist idealism is only relevant when it benefits you... right?

Your quick to make attacks, arent you? That's not a very...intelligent...act. No, i dont support pirating, unless it's vaporware (freespace 2 anybody?). I am just stating that you can't say this is some universal truth, and it certainly isnt *theft*. It's just wrong by the set of laws we've put in place for our economy. Nothing more.

[QUOTE="odyssey_divine"]

I actually did buy Limewire Pro so my music downloads legal:lol::P:P:P:P:P

famicommander

[QUOTE="pianist"]

You can bend the words however you wish, but in the end, you are still enjoying someone else's work for free when the work was not intended to be free. I should think a staunch capitalist would be totally against the socialist notion of freely distributing someone else's work and not allowing the person who created the product to reap ALL the benfits of his or her labour... but I guess capitalist idealism is only relevant when it benefits you... right?

Tolwan

Your quick to make attacks, arent you? That's not a very...intelligent...act. No, i dont support pirating, unless it's vaporware (freespace 2 anybody?). I am just stating that you can't say this is some universal truth, and it certainly isnt *theft*. It's just wrong by the set of laws we've put in place for our economy. Nothing more.

[QUOTE="goodlay"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yep...wrong. No discussion needed. Those that pirate do so knowing they are stealing someone else's work....LJS9502_basic

Yeah, that 1 dollar is really going to kill a million dollar making band. :roll:

Theft is theft...if you don't like how much someone makes then don't listen to their music. Period.

Do you realize how much money the bands make from advertising, concerts, merchandise, etc? Of course music sales take down their revenue but if people think that piracy has killed the music industry, they are delusional.

To end this debate on my behalf, I will just say it's a matter of opinion whether you think it's right or wrong and whether you do download it or not is your choice.

odyssey_divine

Not really. You can hold the opinion that enjoying something for free in opposition to the creator's intentions is right... but you'd still be wrong. Not all opinions are equally valid.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="goodlay"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yep...wrong. No discussion needed. Those that pirate do so knowing they are stealing someone else's work....goodlay

Yeah, that 1 dollar is really going to kill a million dollar making band. :roll:

Theft is theft...if you don't like how much someone makes then don't listen to their music. Period.

Do you realize how much money the bands make from advertising, concerts, merchandise, etc? Of course music sales take down their revenue but if people think that piracy has killed the music industry, they are delusional.

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

And I once made a topic like this then it got locked and I got modded for "Illegal activities" -_-'

[QUOTE="Tolwan"] [QUOTE="pianist"]

You can bend the words however you wish, but in the end, you are still enjoying someone else's work for free when the work was not intended to be free. I should think a staunch capitalist would be totally against the socialist notion of freely distributing someone else's work and not allowing the person who created the product to reap ALL the benfits of his or her labour... but I guess capitalist idealism is only relevant when it benefits you... right?

LJS9502_basic

Your quick to make attacks, arent you? That's not a very...intelligent...act. No, i dont support pirating, unless it's vaporware (freespace 2 anybody?). I am just stating that you can't say this is some universal truth, and it certainly isnt *theft*. It's just wrong by the set of laws we've put in place for our economy. Nothing more.

That's true! That is VERY true. All morality is relative. Everyone has their own set of right and wrong, and unless you're a religious man, there is nothing floating in the sky with a list of rights and wrongs. Our laws are based upon what we feel is necessary for a productive society and what we feel are fundamental rights to human beings. But it isnt a universal truth.

Do you realize how much money the bands make from advertising, concerts, merchandise, etc? Of course music sales take down their revenue but if people think that piracy has killed the music industry, they are delusional.

goodlay

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

And I once made a topic like this then it got locked and I got modded for "Illegal activities" -_-'

Kikouken

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

Kikouken

[QUOTE="Kikouken"]

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

And I once made a topic like this then it got locked and I got modded for "Illegal activities" -_-'

Cube_of_MooN

But...we'll need the plans to the "Internet". Only then could we send in small fighters to take it out... via some sort of "Internet Ventilation shaft".

That's true! That is VERY true. All morality is relative. Everyone has their own set of right and wrong, and unless you're a religious man, there is nothing floating in the sky with a list of rights and wrongs. Our laws are based upon what we feel is necessary for a productive society and what we feel are fundamental rights to human beings. But it isnt a universal truth.

Tolwan

[QUOTE="goodlay"]

Do you realize how much money the bands make from advertising, concerts, merchandise, etc? Of course music sales take down their revenue but if people think that piracy has killed the music industry, they are delusional.

LJS9502_basic

Yeah, it's so expensive for you, 15 dollars for 10-12 songs, or you can just go on ITunes and buy them for a dollar a piece. Seriously, how can you complain about that?

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

And you think pirates would buy music if they couldn't download it in the first place? I *only* buy music that I've listened to before hand. Most pirates have different motives - but I think we can agree that if they aren't spending money on the music in the first place, they never planned on doing it anyways.

Meaning those artists won't see a single cent. Piracy keeps certain genres and certain types of music alive whether you like it or not.

pianist

Like I said - there is a competitive advantage yielded to those who offer samples of their music for free. But because most of these samples offer only a sample of the work, people don't like them, even when it's more than enough to tell whether or not you'll like the music. They want the whole song... so that THEY can decide whether or not they want to pay for it.

Again, I don't know why you're trying to rationalize something which is plainly wrong. In the end, it comes down to the very simple truth that a person who creates something in a capitalist society should have total control over what happens to that something. No other person but the creator has a right to enforce a particular form of distribution on the product without the creator's consent. So distributing someone else's work without his or her consent, however well-intentioned you may be, or whatever good may possibly come of it, is wrong.

It's surprising what people will pay for when they have no choice but to pay for it. If piracy was non-existent, I would imagine many of the people who currently pay nothing at all for their media would actually be paying for some. They wouldn't own nearly as much as they currently do, obviously. But if they care enough about the media to download it in the first place, it stands to reason that they would be interested enough to pay for it if they had to. It's like anything else, really. Lots of people want cars, but can't steal them. So instead of owning one of every type of car, they buy the best one they can afford. And that's how it should be.

Just leave the decision to the creator, that's what I say. You can't really appreciate that unless you yourself are a creator.

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

And I once made a topic like this then it got locked and I got modded for "Illegal activities" -_-'

Kikouken

That's true! That is VERY true. All morality is relative. Everyone has their own set of right and wrong, and unless you're a religious man, there is nothing floating in the sky with a list of rights and wrongs. Our laws are based upon what we feel is necessary for a productive society and what we feel are fundamental rights to human beings. But it isnt a universal truth.

Tolwan

[QUOTE="Cube_of_MooN"][QUOTE="Kikouken"]

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

And I once made a topic like this then it got locked and I got modded for "Illegal activities" -_-'

Tolwan

But...we'll need the plans to the "Internet". Only then could we send in small fighters to take it out... via some sort of "Internet Ventilation shaft".

Yeah, it's so expensive for you, 15 dollars for 10-12 songs, or you can just go on ITunes and buy them for a dollar a piece. Seriously, how can you complain about that?

goodlay

[QUOTE="Kikouken"]

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

famicommander

Downloading music for free, a serious moral issue.:lol: Probably half the people on here do drugs, smoke, or drink alcohal, but have a huge problem with downloading music for free.

Your quick to make attacks, arent you? That's not a very...intelligent...act. No, i dont support pirating, unless it's vaporware (freespace 2 anybody?). I am just stating that you can't say this is some universal truth, and it certainly isnt *theft*. It's just wrong by the set of laws we've put in place for our economy. Nothing more.

Tolwan

But it isn't just wrong by the set of laws we have in place. It is morally wrong, and any true capitalist should find the notion of music piracy utterly offensive, because taking something that someone else created and sharing it without the creator's consent flies in the face of what capitalism is all about.

Call it whatever you like. Sneaking into a movie without paying... getting a medical check-up and leaving without paying... piracy... none of these result in a physical product being taken. But none of them are moral actions.

And you think pirates would buy musicIt's not plainly wrong at all. Pop musicians making millions of dollars for writing catchy pop-tunes that took them two days to write is wrong. If piracy wasn't around - all that'd be left is pop music.GodLovesDead

That's true! That is VERY true. All morality is relative. Everyone has their own set of right and wrong, and unless you're a religious man, there is nothing floating in the sky with a list of rights and wrongs. Our laws are based upon what we feel is necessary for a productive society and what we feel are fundamental rights to human beings. But it isnt a universal truth.

Tolwan

[QUOTE="goodlay"]

Yeah, it's so expensive for you, 15 dollars for 10-12 songs, or you can just go on ITunes and buy them for a dollar a piece. Seriously, how can you complain about that?

LJS9502_basic

Convienence. (sp?)We're lazy, and there's no point in spending the minimal cash when you can just get it for free. If it was like 100 dollars a CD or something, then I could understand the problem, but this is like 10 bucks.

[QUOTE="famicommander"][QUOTE="Kikouken"]

Who cares? Honestly, you can't really end it.

goodlay

Downloading music for free, a serious moral issue.:lol: Probably half the people on here do drugs, smoke, or drink alcohal, but have a huge problem with downloading music for free.

[QUOTE="goodlay"]

Yeah, it's so expensive for you, 15 dollars for 10-12 songs, or you can just go on ITunes and buy them for a dollar a piece. Seriously, how can you complain about that?

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Tolwan"]

Your quick to make attacks, arent you? That's not a very...intelligent...act. No, i dont support pirating, unless it's vaporware (freespace 2 anybody?). I am just stating that you can't say this is some universal truth, and it certainly isnt *theft*. It's just wrong by the set of laws we've put in place for our economy. Nothing more.

pianist

But it isn't just wrong by the set of laws we have in place. It is morally wrong, and any true capitalist should find the notion of music piracy utterly offensive, because taking something that someone else created and sharing it without the creator's consent flies in the face of what capitalism is all about.

Call it whatever you like. Sneaking into a movie without paying... getting a medical check-up and leaving without paying... piracy... none of these result in a physical product being taken. But none of them are moral actions.

Tell me, what determines what is "Morally right" and "morally wrong"? You are an atheist, so it is not god. Are you born with these morals? Are we then to assume all life is born with the same morals, and thus must adhere to these "Genetic Moralities"? What determines what is "Right" and what is "Wrong"?

Oh, and one more addendum. Where, at all, did i saw Piracy was right? Nowhere, i just said it isnt a universal truth that all people are born with the knowledge of.

I'm just being a pain in the ass and as far as i'm concerned, i make a good devil's advocate.

It's not plainly wrong at all. Pop musicians making millions of dollars for writing catchy pop-tunes that took them two days to write is wrong. If piracy wasn't around - all that'd be left is pop music.GodLovesDead

Doubtful. Do remember that most great music is written by people who are passionate about it and write it as much for themselves as for anyone else. But again... THEY should be the ones to decide if they are to be paid for their music or not. You claim that it is not plainly wrong, yet you have not yet countered that point.

I don't like the fact that pop musicians make millions on crappy music any more than you do - but that's what most people want to hear, dude. It's not anyone's place to tell these people they can't like crappy music. And it's certainly not our place to tell the creators of that crappy music what they should or should not do with their crappy music.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="goodlay"]

Yeah, it's so expensive for you, 15 dollars for 10-12 songs, or you can just go on ITunes and buy them for a dollar a piece. Seriously, how can you complain about that?

goodlay

Convienence. (sp?)We're lazy, and there's no point in spending the minimal cash when you can just get it for free. If it was like 100 dollars a CD or something, then I could understand the problem, but this is like 10 bucks.

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

And you think pirates would buy musicIt's not plainly wrong at all. Pop musicians making millions of dollars for writing catchy pop-tunes that took them two days to write is wrong. If piracy wasn't around - all that'd be left is pop music.LJS9502_basic

The only music you'd know about was what you heard on the radio, television, and from friends. Chances are you wouldn't be listening to The Cure unless you heard a song from them before purchasing one of their albums.