Poland approves forcible castration for paedophiles

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D_Battery

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#101 D_Battery
Member since 2009 • 2478 Posts

For those extremely likely to reoffend, the rationale behind the implementation of such measures is certainly understandable, but I do not believe that such a course of action should be made mandatory under any circumstances. A more nuanced approach would be preferable, whereby those convicted of heinous sexual crimes would receive additional benefits for undergoing such a procedure, but to force it upon them would be a crime unto itself.

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WasntAvailable

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#102 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

  • It is a punishment that cant be reversed
  • In case of error you have sentenced an innocent man to death. And no, having DNA examinations in our times does not make that risk much lower cause if that were the case then we would always be catching the bad guys no matter the case.
  • We are sto0ping to the level of the criminals
  • It has been proven to not reduce crime rates, not even to the point where it justifies the extreme character of the punishment

Teenaged

1. That's where the cost comes in. They have to be entirely sure that the conviction is correct. There is allways a chance someone could have been innocent due to a very unlikely mistake, but so much goes into making sure that they are proven guilty with as much evidence as possible that it's very unlikely. 2. And no we do not stoop to the level of a criminal simply by killing a murderer. 3. There's a good chance that when a sentence is served thatpersonwill recommit the crime they commited in the first place. This is such a common occurance it's scary. By killing a proven murderer a risk is removed, I see no problem with this. 4. Everything has been proven to not do something, or do whatever. The problem is that it's never going to be accurate. 5. Even if you consider that to be the case that it will have no effect on crime rates at all, 6. it reduces the issues of overcrowding. I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced by those reasons at all. It's just a list of some unlikely mabyes. It's a case of the postitives outweigh the negatives, 7. until you factor in the costs and then it becomes a bit unrealistic. Price is the only issue I consider a realistic problem.

1. This is wishful thinking. You cannot know that the risk is miniscule.

2. Yes you do. There are alternatives like....

3. Locking them up for life. ;)

4. With such an extreme measure I wont settle with "Oh well, what can you do, nothing is perfect".

5. Its not how I feel. I have been informed on statistics on the issue. Unfortunately not internet sources (yes I know thats convenient).

6. Overcrowding? Overcrowding???? Are you serious???????????? This is how you want to fight overcrowiding? By letting a faulty system kill as many as it can?

7. I am sad that only the cost makes you see it as a wrong measure. And I dont mean to be sarcastic here.

We know the risk is miniscule because it's uncommon for new evidence to come to light after someone has been executed. I think it's ridiculous to see there being a high risk of someone being mis-punished. The worst comes to the worst, there's ambiguity and the guy gets sent to jail instead. That will happen anyway, and even at that the damage is irreversable. It's just the way it is. A life sentence isn't that much diffrent than death.

This is all well and good until they escape, or are released early on "good behaviour". This has happened before, and it will happen again. This will only become more of a problem as prisons become more and more overcrowed, espically in Britain and smaller countries.

I'm questiong how accurate soemthing can be when someone suggests that killing a murderer will not reduce crime rates when we KNOW offenders will actually re-comit crimes quite often. Common sense tells us that those findings are largely false, and ignore something soblatantly obvious. There's a reason I take everything I hear with a massive pinch of salt.

And the system isn't very faulty at all. That's your opinion, and frankly, I think its wrong.

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Teenaged

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#103 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

1. We know the risk is miniscule because it's uncommon for new evidence to come to light after someone has been executed. I think it's ridiculous to see there being a high risk of someone being mis-punished. The worst comes to the worst, there's ambiguity and the guy gets sent to jail instead. That will happen anyway, and even at that the damage is irreversable. It's just the way it is. 2. A life sentence isn't that much diffrent than death.

3. This is all well and good until they escape, or are released early on "good behaviour". This has happened before, and it will happen again. This will only become more of a problem as prisons become more and more overcrowed, espically in Britain and smaller countries.

4. I'm questiong how accurate soemthing can be when someone suggests that killing a murderer will not reduce crime rates when we KNOW offenders will actually re-comit crimes quite often. Common sense tells us that those findings are largely false, and ignore something soblatantly obvious. There's a reason I take everything I hear with a massive pinch of salt.

5. And the system isn't very faulty at all. That's your opinion, and frankly, I think its wrong.

WasntAvailable

1. Well how could more evidence be brough to light since the supposed criminal is already dead? It wouldnt matter, would it? :|

And again you havent shown how we can be sure the risk is indeed miniscule.

2. Thats an arbitrary and subjective opinion. Of course you do realise that you should be comparing the two (life sentence and death sentence) with other criteria and not by what is preferrable by the one who is punished, right?

3. Then make jails harder to escape. :? Is that really an excuse now? And when I say sentence for life, I mean for life. No releases for good behavior. Only in light of new evidence. Then build more prisons or as a government countries should find ways to prevent its citizens from becoming criminals in the first place.

4. Yes the prison system as it is does not make people come out of it better than they were, but is that really an excuse? "Hey my non-cruel penalty system does not make you a better person because I forgot to make it effective so I'll just kill ya instead". :|

5. Which you havent proven....

And.... good night.

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krazykillaz

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#104 krazykillaz
Member since 2002 • 21141 Posts
It wouldn't bother me if they made it an optional alternative to harsher punishments.
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WasntAvailable

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#105 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

1. We know the risk is miniscule because it's uncommon for new evidence to come to light after someone has been executed. I think it's ridiculous to see there being a high risk of someone being mis-punished. The worst comes to the worst, there's ambiguity and the guy gets sent to jail instead. That will happen anyway, and even at that the damage is irreversable. It's just the way it is. 2. A life sentence isn't that much diffrent than death.

3. This is all well and good until they escape, or are released early on "good behaviour". This has happened before, and it will happen again. This will only become more of a problem as prisons become more and more overcrowed, espically in Britain and smaller countries.

4. I'm questiong how accurate soemthing can be when someone suggests that killing a murderer will not reduce crime rates when we KNOW offenders will actually re-comit crimes quite often. Common sense tells us that those findings are largely false, and ignore something soblatantly obvious. There's a reason I take everything I hear with a massive pinch of salt.

5. And the system isn't very faulty at all. That's your opinion, and frankly, I think its wrong.

Teenaged

1. Well how could more evidence be brough to light since the supposed criminal is already dead? It wouldnt matter, would it? :|

And again you havent shown how we can be sure the risk is indeed miniscule.

2. Thats an arbitrary and subjective opinion. Of course you do realise that you should be comparing the two (life sentence and death sentence) with other criteria and not by what is preferrable by the one who is punished, right?

3. Then make jails harder to escape. :? Is that really an excuse now? And when I say sentence for life, I mean for life. No releases for good behavior. Only in light of new evidence. Then build more prisons or as a government countries should find ways to prevent its citizens from becoming criminals in the first place.

4. Yes the prison system as it is does not make people come out of it better than they were, but is that really an excuse? "Hey my non-cruel penalty system does not make you a better person because I forgot to make it effective so I'll just kill ya instead". :|

5. Which you havent proven....

Occasionally new evidence is brought to light that re-opens an old trial. Usually if it's been inconclusive. It can happen. Honestly though, you can't prove that it's not anything more than minisculeeither. What it comes down to is this. How often are people who are on life sentences released on the ground of being falsely accused? Not many, so what's the diffrence between a life sentence and a death sentence when they are designed to do the same thing? As far as I'm concerned worying about that is pointless. I'm not going go hunt down hard figures because I'm not bothered enough to do that, but through logic it becomes clear that it's just simply not that big an issue. If there's a very verysmall chance of someone being proven innocent after being convicted, then there's a very very small chance of someone being proven innocent after they have been killed.

All opinions are subjective. Fact of life. What it comes down to is this. The sentences are used to fufill the same role, to keep a high risk convict in a position where they can not re-comit a crime. Spending your entire life in prison is not exactly a good exsistance, it's a large punishment. Death is only a small step up from that. In terms of punishment they are more or less on the same level, only one ismore effectivethan the other. Whether you kill them or keep them in the same place for a long period of time, at the end of the day it will have the same effect.

Now were back at overcrowding. Where do you think the funding is going to come from to expand security? It's a serious issues, prisons are costing far too much. We need to do something about it soon before it becomes worse. The more criminals you place in the same prison building the greater the enviroment you create for a possible escape. No one can afford to expand prisons, we're at a dead end. Mabye you don't realise this, but Britain has virtually no space left in prisons, and no money to build more. They have actually had punishments based on that fact and because of that we have seen people re-offend when they should have been behind bars. That is far from ideal.

What are you trying to say here? That we should take re-offending lightly, because, well we can't really do anything about it? No, I see no reason for that when the problem can be avoided alltogether by simply killing the worst criminals rather than have them released into the public domain.

I don't need to prove anything, that's not the point of debate, contrary to what you and everyone elsemight believe :P. Trust me, no one ever proves anything in a debate.Your simply stating your opinion, I'm stating mine. You think I'm wrong, I think your wrong.

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Locke562

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#106 Locke562
Member since 2004 • 7673 Posts
Draconian and Barbaric. I can't believe some people are applauding this. It's not Justice. It's revenge.
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WasntAvailable

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#107 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

Draconian and Barbaric. I can't believe some people are applauding this. It's not Justice. It's revenge.Locke562

Actually it's only temporary, and it is experimental. It may or may not work as other people have pointed out. Frankly I wouldn't mind if they did a full castration if it meant they wouldn't reoffend, though that may not nessecarily be the case either.

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jimmyjammer69

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#108 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
Draconian and Barbaric. I can't believe some people are applauding this. It's not Justice. It's revenge.Locke562
It's temporary chemical castration. It could be argued that it's more a treatment than a punishment.
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mfp16

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#109 mfp16
Member since 2006 • 4551 Posts
If you could guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that the person is guilty then I would be all for it... but considering all the wrongful convictions and the complete irreversibility of the punishment I would have to disagree with this...
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jimmyjammer69

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#110 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
If you could guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that the person is guilty then I would be all for it... but considering all the wrongful convictions and the complete irreversibility of the punishment I would have to disagree with this...mfp16
It is reversible. It's temporary chemical castration.
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mfp16

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#111 mfp16
Member since 2006 • 4551 Posts

[QUOTE="mfp16"]If you could guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that the person is guilty then I would be all for it... but considering all the wrongful convictions and the complete irreversibility of the punishment I would have to disagree with this...jimmyjammer69
It is reversible. It's temporary chemical castration.

ahh.. that's what skimming instead of reading gets me... I will have to possibly re-evaluate my position.

But we must remember that Alan Turing was a victim of "chemical castration" and being one of my greatest heros and the horrible miscarraige of justice and that ended extremely badly for one of the greatest minds of modern times...

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rawsavon

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#112 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
If you could guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that the person is guilty then I would be all for it... but considering all the wrongful convictions and the complete irreversibility of the punishment I would have to disagree with this...mfp16
Plus it does not solve the problem, as I posted on the first page. It only makes it to where they can't "perform". It does nothing to stop the urges...they are literally sick in the head. So they still have the desire to touch, fondle, insert things, etc. Honestly, the only thing that can be done is to lock them up for the rest of their lives. There is no full proof treatment at this time...if one becomes available, I will change my opinion. But they ruin kids lives....something you never get over...affects all aspects of their lives FOREVER Not worth the risk of releasing them back into public...they are sick and a danger to the public...who should have to suffer...them or the public...I vote them. Like i said though, find a full proof treatment and it is a different story
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jimmyjammer69

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#113 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="mfp16"]If you could guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that the person is guilty then I would be all for it... but considering all the wrongful convictions and the complete irreversibility of the punishment I would have to disagree with this...mfp16
It is reversible. It's temporary chemical castration.

ahh.. that's what skimming instead of reading gets me... I will have to possibly re-evaluate my position

I know, it sounds rough at first, but it's not all that different from treating an illness. I can see this being introduced as a voluntary program one day.
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elblanquito_81

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#114 elblanquito_81
Member since 2007 • 4356 Posts

It's good that they're taking tougher measures to try and ensure that these animals don't commit another crime, but I think a better alternative would be keeping them locked up. Pedophilia isn't something that can be successfully treated. Being chemically castrated is a temporary measure that only keeps them from wanting to have sex, it doesn't do anything to keep those thoughts from creeping into their heads, nor does it ensure that they won't act on those impulses again when off this "treatment."

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rawsavon

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#115 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

It's good that they're taking tougher measures to try and ensure that these animals don't commit another crime, but I think a better alternative would be keeping them locked up. Pedophilia isn't something that can be successfully treated. Being chemically castrated is a temporary measure that only keeps them from wanting to have sex, it doesn't do anything to keep those thoughts from creeping into their heads, nor does it ensure that they won't act on those impulses again when off this "treatment."

elblanquito_81
Glad someone else pointed this out as well
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jimmyjammer69

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#116 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
[QUOTE="elblanquito_81"]

It's good that they're taking tougher measures to try and ensure that these animals don't commit another crime, but I think a better alternative would be keeping them locked up. Pedophilia isn't something that can be successfully treated. Being chemically castrated is a temporary measure that only keeps them from wanting to have sex, it doesn't do anything to keep those thoughts from creeping into their heads, nor does it ensure that they won't act on those impulses again when off this "treatment."

rawsavon
Glad someone else pointed this out as well

Are either of you absolutely sure that paedophiles will still feel the same sort of sexual attraction when they're essentially hormonally neutered?
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mfp16

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#117 mfp16
Member since 2006 • 4551 Posts
[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="mfp16"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"] It is reversible. It's temporary chemical castration.

ahh.. that's what skimming instead of reading gets me... I will have to possibly re-evaluate my position

I know, it sounds rough at first, but it's not all that different from treating an illness. I can see this being introduced as a voluntary program one day.

My own opinions on Alan Turing's chemical castration makes me stomach turn a bit when thinking about the fate he met when he should have lived the rest of his life like a prince... but I guess that is a different situation all together... When we are talking about convicted pedophiles, and as long as it's not being used in place of hard prison time for a very long time, I could go along with this as a preventive measure against re-offense.
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Luminouslight

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#118 Luminouslight
Member since 2007 • 6397 Posts

What if the guy is innocent?

gamedude2020
That's exactly the same thing I thought as well.
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rawsavon

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#119 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="elblanquito_81"]

It's good that they're taking tougher measures to try and ensure that these animals don't commit another crime, but I think a better alternative would be keeping them locked up. Pedophilia isn't something that can be successfully treated. Being chemically castrated is a temporary measure that only keeps them from wanting to have sex, it doesn't do anything to keep those thoughts from creeping into their heads, nor does it ensure that they won't act on those impulses again when off this "treatment."

jimmyjammer69
Glad someone else pointed this out as well

Are either of you absolutely sure that paedophiles will still feel the same sort of sexual attraction when they're essentially hormonally neutered?

I do have a degree in this area of study...so ya pretty sure ;) -does nothing for the "desire" If you could not "perform"...you would still find women (or men) attractive...along those lines but more sick, because it is about more than attrcation
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Omni-Slash

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#120 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
I'm all for it....hell...can we extend the option to stupid people?...
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weezyfb

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#121 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
that would suck if you were wrongly convicted
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LikeHaterade

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#122 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

Wow. Poland is nuts!

I haven't read through the thread yet. Was I too late for that?

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lilasianwonder

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#123 lilasianwonder
Member since 2007 • 5982 Posts
Like theres anything wrong with that.
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Duckman5

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#124 Duckman5
Member since 2006 • 18934 Posts
Too extreme.
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rjxtian

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#125 rjxtian
Member since 2005 • 2638 Posts

Good in theory...but has not proven to be 100% effective. Many have brain/mental disorders...they can't "perform" anymore, but still have the same urges = still touch/fondle/etc.rawsavon

would be very effective, if the Castration started at the Neck.

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Sword-Demon

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#126 Sword-Demon
Member since 2008 • 7007 Posts

Poland wins Earth

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Marka1700

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#127 Marka1700
Member since 2003 • 7500 Posts
An eye for an eye. Tottaly barbaric. Also, what happens if they find out 2 years latter they were inocent. That stuff happens all the time.
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samuraiguns

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#128 samuraiguns
Member since 2005 • 11588 Posts

Next up: chop off hands of shoplifters?

Oleg_Huzwog
yeah, this is win post.
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Marka1700

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#129 Marka1700
Member since 2003 • 7500 Posts

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

Next up: chop off hands of shoplifters?

samuraiguns

yeah, this is win post.

Something people did in the past. One would hope society was moving forward but it appears to be moving backwards.