That's completely unrealistic.The whole point of having cops is that they enforce such a behaviour that instead of being judged by emotional human beings, people are judged by courts. One of the things a cop should always do is keep a cool head, and behave professionally. All that crap about "they're just human" doesn't really make sense, because if every cop was "just human" every cop would be corrupt too. Cops should have some kind of barrier to stop them from this kind of behaviour. What if the man in the car would've been alive if the cops didn't beat him up, but the beating did the last bit?
There's a difference between being a robot and behaving professionally, and beating up a severely injured man lying on the ground because he hit one of your colleagues. If policemen can't keep their cool in such situations, then they either need more training or aren't fit to be policemen.
11Marcel
Police Brutality: This has got to be the most rediculous beating yet.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="effena"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]Never said it wasn't wrong. But i really don't feel sympathy for the guy. I'd kick his ass too. I'm just not gonna blame the cops for how they reacted there, it's understandable. AAllxxjjnn
I'm sorry, but I do not understand beating a defenseless person with four other people, regardless of what he's done. It's not understandable, and since they were cops, it makes it unprofessional as well
He pretty much signed away those rights the minute he decided to break the law and put everyone else's lives in danger. You're mistaking fascism with democracy. Even a criminal has some rights. Policemen are allowed to do everything they need to get this man cuffed up and to jail, and make sure everyone's safe. Once they initiate clearly excessive violence, then they're criminals too. This is why we have a court system in the first place, and not just policemen acting as militia's.
The whole point of having cops is that they enforce such a behaviour that instead of being judged by emotional human beings, people are judged by courts. One of the things a cop should always do is keep a cool head, and behave professionally. All that crap about "they're just human" doesn't really make sense, because if every cop was "just human" every cop would be corrupt too. Cops should have some kind of barrier to stop them from this kind of behaviour. What if the man in the car would've been alive if the cops didn't beat him up, but the beating did the last bit?
There's a difference between being a robot and behaving professionally, and beating up a severely injured man lying on the ground because he hit one of your colleagues. If policemen can't keep their cool in such situations, then they either need more training or aren't fit to be policemen.
...is about as eloquently as it can be put.
Regardless of what this criminal did, police should not have commited these crimes. I think this guy deserves punishment, but so do these cops (more than just loosing their jobs too).
I can guarantee that if this criminal was a (woman or teenager) they would've acted differently.
He pretty much signed away those rights the minute he decided to break the law and put everyone else's lives in danger. AAllxxjjnn
:lol: Everybody has their rights...even criminals.
Lemme put it this way; if it was anyone other than cops who gang beat a injured, defenseless man, they would go to jail. Unfortunantly, these ex-cops only lost their job. Hopefully they will never "serve" the police force again.
That's completely unrealistic.AAllxxjjnnThen you should never become a cop. Everyone that experiences violence on a daily basis should not be easily angered. Even if you do a sport like kickboxing, becoming emotional can be devastating.
It's not just because of situations like these. Keeping a cool head, and not spinning around from hatred can save the life of yourself and others too. These policemen should be trained to do that.
[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="jointed"] That's easy for you to say, try chasing a rampaging idiot through out town while he's trying to run your colleagues over and at the same time remain 100 % calm. He didn't die now did he? A good ol' beating is what he deserve and that's what he got.jointedNow, I'm not a fascist, irrational and emotionally unstable - I'd probably feel sorry for the man after his car took a 900. Either way, the police are in no position to do what they did. Fascist? This has got nothing to do with fascism and it has certainly got nothing to do with being emotionally unstable. These policemen did a wonderful job of apprehending a criminal scum and as a bonus they gave him a beating too. If it was up to me, he should have been shot on sight, regardless of whether he was lying down or not. The officers literally risked their lives and this is the thanks they get...disgusting. I have absolutely no idea whether you're being sarcastic, deliberately provocative or genuine :?
I have absolutely no idea whether you're being sarcastic, deliberately provocative or genuine :?I'm wondering the same thing now. Either he's pretty medieval, or doing a wonderful job of pretending.jimmyjammer69
I'll say this again, it's not up to policemen to carry out punishment. It should always be in front of a court. Isn't that what americans always find so important? And isn't that what this whole american freedom is about? Always having the right to be judged in court? If this man did really bad things (and he did), the courts will decide on a punishment that is severe enough. That's not the job of policemen.
If you can't manage your anger, you shouldn't become a cop. It's as simple as that. Believe me, there's people out there that can actually manage their anger properly.
I'm wondering the same thing now. Either he's pretty medieval, or doing a wonderful job of pretending.[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]I have absolutely no idea whether you're being sarcastic, deliberately provocative or genuine :?
11Marcel
I'll say this again, it's not up to policemen to carry out punishment. It should always be in front of a court. Isn't that what americans always find so important? And isn't that what this whole american freedom is about? Always having the right to be judged in court? If this man did really bad things (and he did), the courts will decide on a punishment that is severe enough. That's not the job of policemen.
If you can't manage your anger, you shouldn't become a cop. It's as simple as that. Believe me, there's people out there that can actually manage their anger properly.
It isn't just that! You don't know if that criminal knew what he was doing! Maybe someone gave him drugs without him being aware or something..you can't just beat the hell out of a man in a situation like that! There was no reason at all!
Fascism is a political ideology, not a buzzword you can throw around whenever government officials go beyond their boundaries...actually, the fact that they did that is COMPLETELY against the idea of fascism. And no it's not. Acting on your emotions is not the same as being "emotionally unstable.jointedFascism is a way to say antihumanist authoritarianism - in other cases it can be a political ideology.
Acting irrationally on your emotions is emotionally unstable. Either way, cops shouldnt' be doing it
Fascism is a way to say antihumanist authoritarianism - in other cases it can be a political ideology.[QUOTE="jointed"] Fascism is a political ideology, not a buzzword you can throw around whenever government officials go beyond their boundaries...actually, the fact that they did that is COMPLETELY against the idea of fascism. And no it's not. Acting on your emotions is not the same as being "emotionally unstable.Famiking
Acting irrationally on your emotions is emotionally unstable. Either way, cops shouldnt' be doing it
No it's not, and it's certainly not fascism if the state doesn't sanction their behavior now is it?I understand what you're attempting to argue but let's just say that the fact that they overstepped their boundaries in this situation provided us with an exceptional amount of lulz and at the same time dished out great moral justice.I believe they did nothing wrong, perhaps if you look at it from a legal perspective...sure, but I'd like to look at individual cases and judge them separately from each other, and in this case, the criminal scum sure deserved that arse kicking.jointed
There was no moral justice in this situation. What the cops did was illegal, unethical, unpatriotic, and unprofessional.
I understand what you're attempting to argue but let's just say that the fact that they overstepped their boundaries in this situation provided us with an exceptional amount of lulz and at the same time dished out great moral justice.I believe they did nothing wrong, perhaps if you look at it from a legal perspective...sure, but I'd like to look at individual cases and judge them separately from each other, and in this case, the criminal scum sure deserved that arse kicking.jointedWhat ever happened to "everybody has the right to be judged in front of his peers in a court"? Also this wasn't at all funny in any way. Even though the man did some terrible things, he's still human. A human that's beaten up by four people just after his car flipped and he flew out of it to be exact. I just hope people like you won't join the police force. Then again, the video clearly showed that they do.
The guy would've gotten what he deserved no matter what. Apparantly you need the immediate satisfaction though.
[QUOTE="teh_619"][QUOTE="jointed"] Fascism is a political ideology, not a buzzword you can throw around whenever government officials go beyond their boundaries...actually, the fact that they did that is COMPLETELY against the idea of fascism. And no it's not. Acting on your emotions is not the same as being "emotionally unstable.jointedCops aren't supposed to be as normal, untrained people! Acting on your emotions is no excuse for a cop! They go through strict training just to control their anger. If you can't stand the pressure you can't be a cop simple as that! Not everyone can become a police officer! I understand what you're attempting to argue but let's just say that the fact that they overstepped their boundaries in this situation provided us with an exceptional amount of lulz and at the same time dished out great moral justice.I believe they did nothing wrong, perhaps if you look at it from a legal perspective...sure, but I'd like to look at individual cases and judge them separately from each other, and in this case, the criminal scum sure deserved that arse kicking. I completely agree. Should they have done it? Maybe not, but he put innocent peoples lives who were on that road at risk and nearly killed a cop, what if he had a family? What if he died, what about them? We have so many people here feeling bad for that peice of scum as if the peoples on the road and the cops life mean nothing. He wasnt innocent, the cops witnesses him attempt to run over that cop. They were angry, I would be also. I have no sympathy for that guy, in a way he got what he deserved.
[QUOTE="Famiking"]Fascism is a way to say antihumanist authoritarianism - in other cases it can be a political ideology.[QUOTE="jointed"] Fascism is a political ideology, not a buzzword you can throw around whenever government officials go beyond their boundaries...actually, the fact that they did that is COMPLETELY against the idea of fascism. And no it's not. Acting on your emotions is not the same as being "emotionally unstable.jointed
Acting irrationally on your emotions is emotionally unstable. Either way, cops shouldnt' be doing it
No it's not, and it's certainly not fascism if the state doesn't sanction their behavior now is it? It's fascism BECAUSE the state doesn't sanction their behaviour - thankfully they did but there are still fascists on this forum.Fascism is a political ideology, not a buzzword you can throw around whenever government officials go beyond their boundaries...actually, the fact that they did that is COMPLETELY against the idea of fascism. And no it's not. Acting on your emotions is not the same as being "emotionally unstable.jointedFascism is a way to say antihumanist authoritarianism - in other cases it can be a political ideology.
Acting irrationally on your emotions is emotionally unstable. Either way, cops shouldnt' be doing it
No it's not, and it's certainly not fascism if the state doesn't sanction their behavior now is it? That's not quite true, as the fascist party were still fascists regardless of whether they were in power.[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Famiking"] Fascism is a way to say antihumanist authoritarianism - in other cases it can be a political ideology.No it's not, and it's certainly not fascism if the state doesn't sanction their behavior now is it? It's fascism BECAUSE the state doesn't sanction their behaviour - thankfully they did but there are still fascists on this forum. The state is everything in the fascist ideology, if individuals goes beyond what they're told to do by this authoritative figure, then they're counter-productive to the fascist ideology. By your logic, gang members and people who exercise their strength and power on others are all fascists.Acting irrationally on your emotions is emotionally unstable. Either way, cops shouldnt' be doing it
Famiking
[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Famiking"] Fascism is a way to say antihumanist authoritarianism - in other cases it can be a political ideology.No it's not, and it's certainly not fascism if the state doesn't sanction their behavior now is it? That's not quite true, as the fascist party were still fascists regardless of whether they were in power. Ehm, that's because they believed in the fascist ideology, not because the did what they believed the state should do.Acting irrationally on your emotions is emotionally unstable. Either way, cops shouldnt' be doing it
jimmyjammer69
It's fascism BECAUSE the state doesn't sanction their behaviour - thankfully they did but there are still fascists on this forum. The state is everything in the fascist ideology, if individuals goes beyond what they're told to do by this authoritative figure, then they're counter-productive to the fascist ideology. By your logic, gang members and people who exercise their strength and power on others are all fascists. Fascists are antihumanists - the police ARE the state/government, police are given far more power than they should have in fascist states and you know it. Gang members are anti-government.[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="jointed"] No it's not, and it's certainly not fascism if the state doesn't sanction their behavior now is it?jointed
I want all thefts and crimes to be dealt with this way. If you break the law, then this means war. Death on the streets, and leave their bodies to rot in the open for all to see and smell. Let some good come from their demise, let their body become nutrients for the soil. Every-known and then, if the bodies are piling up, drop a few out to sea, where their floated flesh be torn from their bone by the predatory creatures, their face eaten, their genitals, everything but the bones, from what little remains to be pecked at by the hungry crabs, snails and eels of the ocean bed - their pierced eyeballs washing up to shore. It will do the whole world good.
I been reading Clive Barker a lot recently.
I completely agree. Should they have done it? Maybe not, but he put innocent peoples lives who were on that road at risk and nearly killed a cop, what if he had a family? What if he died, what about them? We have so many people here feeling bad for that peice of scum as if the peoples on the road and the cops life mean nothing. He wasnt innocent, the cops witnesses him attempt to run over that cop. They were angry, I would be also. I have no sympathy for that guy, in a way he got what he deserved. SaintLeonidasSo, what if the beating was the final straw for the man to die, and if the cops would've followed the book the man would now be in jail paying for what he did. Then do you think the cops should've given the man the beating? That would equal to a bunch of cops invoking the death penalty to a guy that injured another cop.
Of course this is a "what if", but it's very relevant. If you're going to condone this behaviour, such things will happen. Out of every citizen, police officer is pretty much the only job where you actually have to control your emotions. Is it then too much to ask? Again, this beating up has no use at all, because the suspect is going to serve his sentence. The beating up carries some high risk though, for example leading to the death of a suspect, or beating up a man who is more innocent than you'd expect.
Seeing dead people on the street is not "a world of good" :|I want all thefts and crimes to be dealt with this way. If you break the law, then this means war. Death on the streets, and leave their bodies to rot in the open for all to see and smell. Let some good come from their demise, let their body become nutrients for the soil. Every-known and then, if the bodies are piling up, drop a few out to sea, where their floated flesh be torn from their bone by the predatory creatures, their face eaten, their genitals, everything but the bones, from what little remains to be pecked at by the hungry crabs, snails and eels of the ocean bed - their pierced eyeballs washing up to shore. It will do the whole world good.
I been reading Clive Barker a lot recently.
Evil_Saluki
Why trivialise this into a pointless argument about the pedantics of facism? This is fascist behaviour, simple as that. No amount of bickering can change a general perception that the police beating you down = fascism.Ehm, that's because they believed in the fascist ideology, not because the did what they believed the state should do.
jointed
That's not quite true, as the fascist party were still fascists regardless of whether they were in power. Ehm, that's because they believed in the fascist ideology, not because the did what they believed the state should do. That's the only meaningful definition of fascism in my book.[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="jointed"] No it's not, and it's certainly not fascism if the state doesn't sanction their behavior now is it?jointed
[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="teh_619"] Cops aren't supposed to be as normal, untrained people! Acting on your emotions is no excuse for a cop! They go through strict training just to control their anger. If you can't stand the pressure you can't be a cop simple as that! Not everyone can become a police officer!SaintLeonidasI understand what you're attempting to argue but let's just say that the fact that they overstepped their boundaries in this situation provided us with an exceptional amount of lulz and at the same time dished out great moral justice.I believe they did nothing wrong, perhaps if you look at it from a legal perspective...sure, but I'd like to look at individual cases and judge them separately from each other, and in this case, the criminal scum sure deserved that arse kicking. I completely agree. Should they have done it? Maybe not, but he put innocent peoples lives who were on that road at risk and nearly killed a cop, what if he had a family? What if he died, what about them? We have so many people here feeling bad for that peice of scum as if the peoples on the road and the cops life mean nothing. He wasnt innocent, the cops witnesses him attempt to run over that cop. They were angry, I would be also. I have no sympathy for that guy, in a way he got what he deserved. You don't know what that guy was dealing with, with his life. I feel no sympathy for him and I'm glad he will be punished but there was no reason to beat him after he was unable to hurt anyone anymore.
[QUOTE="jointed"]The state is everything in the fascist ideology, if individuals goes beyond what they're told to do by this authoritative figure, then they're counter-productive to the fascist ideology. By your logic, gang members and people who exercise their strength and power on others are all fascists. Fascists are antihumanists - the police ARE the state/government, police are given far more power than they should have in fascist states and you know it. Gang members are anti-government. Police officers are all individuals, if they act against the wishes of the state, then they're not fascists. You guys are whining about how these police officers are criminals because they did something which is against the law. You call them fascists. Ok, explain to me what the difference is between gang-members doing something which is against the law and police officers doing something which is against the law? You're advocating that they should be treated as normal citizens but then you're saying that we should label them differently because of their governmental position. Humans are humans and if two individuals does something which is counter-productive to the state, then they're NOT fascists...regardless of their position.[QUOTE="Famiking"] It's fascism BECAUSE the state doesn't sanction their behaviour - thankfully they did but there are still fascists on this forum. Famiking
[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="teh_619"] Cops aren't supposed to be as normal, untrained people! Acting on your emotions is no excuse for a cop! They go through strict training just to control their anger. If you can't stand the pressure you can't be a cop simple as that! Not everyone can become a police officer!SaintLeonidasI understand what you're attempting to argue but let's just say that the fact that they overstepped their boundaries in this situation provided us with an exceptional amount of lulz and at the same time dished out great moral justice.I believe they did nothing wrong, perhaps if you look at it from a legal perspective...sure, but I'd like to look at individual cases and judge them separately from each other, and in this case, the criminal scum sure deserved that arse kicking. I completely agree. Should they have done it? Maybe not, but he put innocent peoples lives who were on that road at risk and nearly killed a cop, what if he had a family? What if he died, what about them? We have so many people here feeling bad for that peice of scum as if the peoples on the road and the cops life mean nothing. He wasnt innocent, the cops witnesses him attempt to run over that cop. They were angry, I would be also. I have no sympathy for that guy, in a way he got what he deserved.
Justice is served in the courts not on the streets. Some seem to think that being a cop absolves you from all responsibility for your actions :roll:.
If cops breaking the law is okay, how are they any different from the criminals they arrest? :?
[QUOTE="jointed"]Ehm, that's because they believed in the fascist ideology, not because the did what they believed the state should do. That's the only meaningful definition of fascism in my book. Exactly, and these police officers does most likely NOT believe in the fascist ideology.[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"] That's not quite true, as the fascist party were still fascists regardless of whether they were in power.jimmyjammer69
[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="jointed"] The state is everything in the fascist ideology, if individuals goes beyond what they're told to do by this authoritative figure, then they're counter-productive to the fascist ideology. By your logic, gang members and people who exercise their strength and power on others are all fascists.Fascists are antihumanists - the police ARE the state/government, police are given far more power than they should have in fascist states and you know it. Gang members are anti-government. Police officers are all individuals, if they act against the wishes of the state, then they're not fascists. You guys are whining about how these police officers are criminals because they did something which is against the law. You call them fascists. Ok, explain to me what the difference is between gang-members doing something which is against the law and police officers doing something which is against the law? You're advocating that they should be treated as normal citizens but then you're saying that we should label them differently because of their governmental position. Humans are humans and if two individuals does something which is counter-productive to the state, then they're NOT fascists...regardless of their position.jointed
The police are given special privileges in order to conduct their work effectively on the basis that they're representing common justice, but are expected to act according to strict guidelines. Once they overstep that boundary, they're not behaving as representatives of the law, but as ordinary people, despite carrying all of the symbols of the state representatives of justice. If they aren't punished, it's as though the state approves of their actions as it's executives.
Police officers are all individuals, if they act against the wishes of the state, then they're not fascists. You guys are whining about how these police officers are criminals because they did something which is against the law. You call them fascists. Ok, explain to me what the difference is between gang-members doing something which is against the law and police officers doing something which is against the law? You're advocating that they should be treated as normal citizens but then you're saying that we should label them differently because of their governmental position. Humans are humans and if two individuals does something which is counter-productive to the state, then they're NOT fascists...regardless of their position.[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Famiking"] Fascists are antihumanists - the police ARE the state/government, police are given far more power than they should have in fascist states and you know it. Gang members are anti-government.jimmyjammer69
The police are given special privileges in order to conduct their work effectively on the basis that they're representing common justice, but are expected to act according to strict guidelines. Once they overstep that boundary, they're not behaving as representatives of the law, but as ordinary people, despite carrying all of the symbols of the state representatives of justice. If they aren't punished, it's as though the state approves of their actions as it's executives.
Exactly, I personally don't believe they did anything wrong....but the state obviously fired them, so it does not condone their actions and fascism has therefore nothing to do with it. This would be a whole different debate if the state didn't react towhat happened.[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="jointed"] Ehm, that's because they believed in the fascist ideology, not because the did what they believed the state should do.That's the only meaningful definition of fascism in my book. Exactly, and these police officers does most likely NOT believe in the fascist ideology.jointed
I never used the term 'fascists' here, and I've no idea what they believed in, but I don't think they should be allowed to get away with whatever they like just because they work as law enforcement officers.
[QUOTE="jointed"] The same rules apply to the people who support it. How can we be fascists when we support the actions of individuals who work for a liberal government? Sure this whole discussionis a little off-topic but I think it's important to debate when broad terms like fascism is thrown around. FamikingThey work for a liberal government - but what they did was not liberal, police brutality is not liberal. It's fascist. People who support it are fascists.
Sounds about right to me. Obviously, there is more to fascism, but many people (including myself) would label any advocate of police brutality as a fascist
[QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"] Look at the situation they were in. I can see why they reacted the way they did. You're asking them to be robots.FamikingIt's perfectly human to not assault someone.
In the situation not assaulting the guy is probably the opposite of what the natural human reaction is.
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