Question about Islam.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"] You do know that Contraceptives are a sin if you are Catholic right? Even wearing a Condom..Nuck81

So yeah, Condom use in high risk areas for HIV is considered a "less of two evils" but it is still disparaged. Honestly do you do ANY research before you try to correct someone?

The only fit Islamic punishment is to drown him in a pool of alcohol.Crunchy_Nuts

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not actually quite accurate. And why does every single Islam thread lead to disparaging other religions?

LJS9502_basic

So yeah, Condom use in high risk areas for HIV is considered a "less of two evils" but it is still disparaged. Honestly do you do ANY research before you try to correct someone?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"] Sorry you're wrong, it's quite accurate. You should read more.

So yeah, Condom use in high risk areas for HIV is considered a "less of two evils" but it is still disparaged. Honestly do you do ANY research before you try to correct someone?

Nuck81

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Did you read my post....it wasn't that long after all? I said it wasn't quite accurate and it wasn't. Use of condoms to prevent the spread of HIV are allowed. Period.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] You didn't even read the article did you? No sorry, You're WRONG again. Condom use is still a sin, even in area's with high HIV. But the Catholic church said that they considered condoms the LESS of two evils. So weighing the impact of the SIn of wearing a condom or the Sin of Spreading HIV they said you should wear a condom. Try READING, and you won't get proven wrong every time you postNuck81

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]*sigh* The pope sets the rules for the church and saying there are exceptions to the ban on contrception is just that. An exception...his word by the way. You do know what the word exception entails....right? gh*LJS9502_basic

I know you're clinging with desperation in hopes that you can provide something that may sway this in your favor but you won't. Just let it go, you can't get around this.

And using a condom even with the threat of HIV is still a sin. So it's not really an exception. The Pope said it's STILL wrong, but for the sake of your health, it's probably better to wear a condom.

Bach was Christian so obviously Christians>everyone

It's as frowned upon as in any other religion, but always forgivable, granted one is willing to change his/her ways.

Which means for me, the wait until marriage is gonna be a long one :cry:

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] Yes, HIV is an exception to the Rule. The Rule is that Condoms are a sin, which means that Condoms are a sin in the Catholic Church. See how easy that was.

Nuck81

I know you're clinging with desperation in hopes that you can provide something that may sway this in your favor but you won't. Just let it go, you can't get around this.

And using a condom even with the threat of HIV is still a sin. So it's not really an exception. The Pope said it's STILL wrong, but for the sake of your health, it's probably better to wear a condom.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Except there are exceptions.....which was my point. See how easy that was.;)LJS9502_basic

I know you're clinging with desperation in hopes that you can provide something that may sway this in your favor but you won't. Just let it go, you can't get around this.

And using a condom even with the threat of HIV is still a sin. So it's not really an exception. The Pope said it's STILL wrong, but for the sake of your health, it's probably better to wear a condom.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] Exceptions don't matter, an exception does not invalidate a law or rule. Murder is wrong, with exceptions, but we still say that Murder is wrong. A Catholic Married couple that has sex but uses a condom is committing a sin. Spin it any way you want, but that's the fact.

I know you're clinging with desperation in hopes that you can provide something that may sway this in your favor but you won't. Just let it go, you can't get around this.

And using a condom even with the threat of HIV is still a sin. So it's not really an exception. The Pope said it's STILL wrong, but for the sake of your health, it's probably better to wear a condom.

Nuck81

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Yes exceptions DO matter. The pope stance"It was an illustration, because he talks about cases, there being different cases where a condom can be used in certain circumstances. The key thing here is intention," Lamb said. "If the intention here is to preserve life, then that is OK. You can use the condom then." Per an article by ABC News.....hence I was correct in saying your initial statement WAS NOT QUITE ACCURATE as according to Catholic teachings the Pope as the head of the Church is the final say in matter of faith. Now get over yourself for being told you weren't QUITE ACCURATE in the absolute statement you made that condom use is always a sin. The Pope disagrees with you.LJS9502_basic

I'll recap the conversation for you.

I said Condom use was a Sin in the Catholic church. You said that wasn't accurate.

I said yes it was and produced an article that says Yes, condom use is a sin, but in the case of HIV it's a lesser evil than spreading the disease.

For some reason you think this means this is an exception and Condom use is not a Sin.

Condom use is a sin and in all situations is a sin, even when used to prevent HIV it's a sin, but a lesser sin than Spreading HIV according to the Pope.

My statement that Condom use is a Sin in the Catholic Church is 100% accurate. You're arguing semantics for a statement that doesn't even back up your position.

You're also getting mad and cussing out individuals in other threads. Which makes me LOL

Nuck81

I'm not sure the Pope is as confident about Catholic policy as you are.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804798

"Pope Benedict has suggested that the use of condoms could be justified in some exceptional circumstances."

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

I'll recap the conversation for you.

I said Condom use was a Sin in the Catholic church. You said that wasn't accurate.

I said yes it was and produced an article that says Yes, condom use is a sin, but in the case of HIV it's a lesser evil than spreading the disease.

For some reason you think this means this is an exception and Condom use is not a Sin.

Condom use is a sin and in all situations is a sin, even when used to prevent HIV it's a sin, but a lesser sin than Spreading HIV according to the Pope.

My statement that Condom use is a Sin in the Catholic Church is 100% accurate. You're arguing semantics for a statement that doesn't even back up your position.

You're also getting mad and cussing out individuals in other threads. Which makes me LOL

RationalAtheist

I'm not sure the Pope is as confident about Catholic policy as you are.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804798

"Pope Benedict has suggested that the use of condoms could be justified in some exceptional circumstances."

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

I'll recap the conversation for you.

I said Condom use was a Sin in the Catholic church. You said that wasn't accurate.

I said yes it was and produced an article that says Yes, condom use is a sin, but in the case of HIV it's a lesser evil than spreading the disease.

For some reason you think this means this is an exception and Condom use is not a Sin.

Condom use is a sin and in all situations is a sin, even when used to prevent HIV it's a sin, but a lesser sin than Spreading HIV according to the Pope.

My statement that Condom use is a Sin in the Catholic Church is 100% accurate. You're arguing semantics for a statement that doesn't even back up your position.

You're also getting mad and cussing out individuals in other threads. Which makes me LOL

RationalAtheist

I'm not sure the Pope is as confident about Catholic policy as you are.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804798

"Pope Benedict has suggested that the use of condoms could be justified in some exceptional circumstances."

Justifying does not mean that it's not a sin. That just means it was necessary in certain instances. Ever heard of Justifiable Homicide? The Homicide itself was justifiable, but still wrong. You can't get out of this you're just plain wrong. Answer this question for me. If you were married, and had sex with your partner, but used a condom, would it be a sin as a Catholic?

Nuck81

Justifiable homicide would not be a crime, let alone a sin!

I'm basing my view of current Catholic thoughts on sin and justification on what the Pope writes.

The Pope says it is justified in exceptional circumstances, which means it would be ok to do it in those circumstances...

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

Justifying does not mean that it's not a sin. That just means it was necessary in certain instances. Ever heard of Justifiable Homicide? The Homicide itself was justifiable, but still wrong. You can't get out of this you're just plain wrong. Answer this question for me. If you were married, and had sex with your partner, but used a condom, would it be a sin as a Catholic?

RationalAtheist

Justifiable homicide would not be a crime, let alone a sin!

I'm basing my view of current Catholic thoughts on sin and justification on what the Pope writes.

The Pope says it is justified in exceptional circumstances, which means it would be ok to do it in those circumstances...

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="dracula_16"]

That's not true at all. Christianity and Judaism both celebrate sex-- read the Song of Solomon. All three religions have set rules in regard to sex, though. How you can see that as a fear of sex, I have no idea. It's like saying that jewish, christian and islamic food laws are the result of a fear of food.

dracula_16

Modesty is suppression-- I'm not saying otherwise. However, it's suppression that's necessary for our society and our relationship with God. I suspect if we're honest with ourselves, we can admit that suppression is not always bad. There are strict modesty codes because we live in a world that's full of exploitation and lust. Our world can learn a lot from Islam, and not just in the area of modesty.

+1

Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

Justifying does not mean that it's not a sin. That just means it was necessary in certain instances. Ever heard of Justifiable Homicide? The Homicide itself was justifiable, but still wrong. You can't get out of this you're just plain wrong. Answer this question for me. If you were married, and had sex with your partner, but used a condom, would it be a sin as a Catholic?

LJS9502_basic

Justifiable homicide would not be a crime, let alone a sin!

I'm basing my view of current Catholic thoughts on sin and justification on what the Pope writes.

The Pope says it is justified in exceptional circumstances, which means it would be ok to do it in those circumstances...

Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.

yanbuco2712

Suppressing desire does little to reduce crime - Sharia legisalates that a rape victim must marry her attacker.

Because it's not correct. Condom use is still a Sin, justifying something that is a Sin, does not change the fact that it is a sin in the first place. That does not give everyone free reign to have sex with a condom whenever they want. It's still a sin. Again Answer my question. If you were married, and had sex with your partner, but used a condom, would it be a sin as a Catholic?Nuck81

You referred to all condom use, but now you wriggle by citing non-exceptional circumstances. Can't you do better? The Pope can't.

Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.yanbuco2712

[QUOTE="yanbuco2712"]

Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.

RationalAtheist

Suppressing desire does little to reduce crime - Sharia legisalates that a rape victim must marry her attacker.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]Because it's not correct. Condom use is still a Sin, justifying something that is a Sin, does not change the fact that it is a sin in the first place. That does not give everyone free reign to have sex with a condom whenever they want. It's still a sin. Again Answer my question. If you were married, and had sex with your partner, but used a condom, would it be a sin as a Catholic?RationalAtheist

You referred to all condom use, but now you wriggle by citing non-exceptional circumstances. Can't you do better? The Pope can't.

[QUOTE="yanbuco2712"]Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.Nuck81

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="yanbuco2712"]Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Justifiable homicide would not be a crime, let alone a sin!

I'm basing my view of current Catholic thoughts on sin and justification on what the Pope writes.

The Pope says it is justified in exceptional circumstances, which means it would be ok to do it in those circumstances...

Nuck81

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] He won't accept that...at all. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"] Because it's not correct. Condom use is still a Sin, justifying something that is a Sin, does not change the fact that it is a sin in the first place. That does not give everyone free reign to have sex with a condom whenever they want. It's still a sin. Again Answer my question. If you were married, and had sex with your partner, but used a condom, would it be a sin as a Catholic?Nuck81

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] I take exception to this from a logic and common sense point of view. Rape is never the fault of the woman. I work in a High School and trust me I seen plenty of 16 year olds and plenty of non modest outfits yet I have never raped anyone or had sex with a 16 year old girl in my adulthood. I agree that girls should dress modestly from a self respect point of view, but to demand that women are modest because it will reduce rape is ludicrous.Nuck81

?? I was referring to all condom use. Follow the converstation.Nuck81

I was. So was the Pope (referring to all comdoms): He was talking about the justifiable exceptions of all condom use.

All religions are against fornication. So are people with moral stature. That's clearly hard for some people to comprehend in todays age but I personally salute it.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not if you were protecting your partner from HIV.;)

LJS9502_basic

Islam is about submission to Allah. That entails that criticizing the religion is against Allah's law. A mote of criticism of Islam can render even a religious Muslim an apostate. That Islam opposes free thought is not an extreme view in the slightest. Even moderate Muslims tend to agree that the Qur'an is not to be questioned at all.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] Incorrect. It's still a sin even in that instance, but the use of the condom is justified due to the Sin of spreading HIV being greater. The LESSER of two evils.Nuck81

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Islam is about submission to Allah. That entails that criticizing the religion is against Allah's law. A mote of criticism of Islam can render even a religious Muslim an apostate. That Islam opposes free thought is not an extreme view in the slightest. Even moderate Muslims tend to agree that the Qur'an is not to be questioned at all.Nuck81

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] The Pope disagrees with you....and since he's the head of the church and not you....well I'm going with what he said.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Very nice to hear. Now you must realize that Islam completely opposes rationality, logic, and criticism.ghoklebutter

Absolute nonsense. Why do you think there are different schools of thought? Different people can have different interprations and opinions, which is why discussion is encouraged. The Qur'an clearly says there is no compulsion in religion which renders your whole point moot.

[QUOTE="yanbuco2712"]Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.Nuck81

Huh?

Woman shows skin>sexual desire is awakend>desire to fulfill said desire>worst case scenario=rape crime

or to put it simply, heres an example: you're hungry, your wife/mom/whatever is still cooking and wont be finished for 30 minutes, and you walk around a street trying to pass the time, suddenly: you look at a restaurant where the finest foods are being served, and you see people enjoying it: you remember your hunger, and wish you were eating said food. If you hadn't seen the food, you wouldnt have remembered your hunger as quickley.

Likewise, if a man sees an unmodestly dressed woman: he, in most cases, remembers his sexual desires. Which CAN POSSIBELY, I say CAN POSSIBELY cause rape, Islam doesnt allow such a possibility.

And if I may speak for myself, I dont usually get aroused from seeing a woman's face, but from her other "assets".

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nuck81"] Incorrect. The Pope said that condom use is a sin. Even in justifiable circumstances it's still a sin. Just the lesser of two evils.

Nuck81

Absolute nonsense. Why do you think there are different schools of thought? Different people can have different interprations and opinions, which is why discussion is encouraged. The Qur'an clearly says there is no compulsion in religion which renders your whole point moot.

Asim90

Of course there are different, valid interpretations of Islam. That doesn't refute my point, though.

All I'm saying is that Islam prohibits criticism of the established teachings. That means that if I have a problem with sexual slavery and wife-beating, I'm not a Muslim.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="yanbuco2712"]Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.yanbuco2712

Huh?

Woman shows skin>sexual desire is awakend>desire to fulfill said desire>worst case scenario=rape crime

or to put it simply, heres an example: you're hungry, your wife/mom/whatever is still cooking and wont be finished for 30 minutes, and you walk around a street trying to pass the time, suddenly: you look at a restaurant where the finest foods are being served, and you see people enjoying it: you remember your hunger, and wish you were eating said food. If you hadn't seen the food, you wouldnt have remembered your hunger as quickley.

Likewise, if a man sees an unmodestly dressed woman: he, in most cases, remembers his sexual desires. Which CAN POSSIBELY, I say CAN POSSIBELY cause rape, Islam doesnt allow such a possibility.

And if I may speak for myself, I dont usually get aroused from seeing a woman's face, but from her other "assets".

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

Absolute nonsense. Why do you think there are different schools of thought? Different people can have different interprations and opinions, which is why discussion is encouraged. The Qur'an clearly says there is no compulsion in religion which renders your whole point moot.

ghoklebutter

That means that if I have a problem with sexual slavery and wife-beating, I'm not a Muslim.

:lol:

Is this a serious point? Please tell me you are joking.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not according to what I read......so I have to disagree with you. But then in religion threads you do seem to be a bit confused.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="yanbuco2712"]Islam promotes modesty in clothing to reduce or outright eliminate rape crimes, and omit 16-year-old-pregnencies.yanbuco2712

Huh?

Woman shows skin>sexual desire is awakend>desire to fulfill said desire>worst case scenario=rape crime

or to put it simply, heres an example: you're hungry, your wife/mom/whatever is still cooking and wont be finished for 30 minutes, and you walk around a street trying to pass the time, suddenly: you look at a restaurant where the finest foods are being served, and you see people enjoying it: you remember your hunger, and wish you were eating said food. If you hadn't seen the food, you wouldnt have remembered your hunger as quickley.

Likewise, if a man sees an unmodestly dressed woman: he, in most cases, remembers his sexual desires. Which CAN POSSIBELY, I say CAN POSSIBELY cause rape, Islam doesnt allow such a possibility.

And if I may speak for myself, I dont usually get aroused from seeing a woman's face, but from her other "assets".

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

Absolute nonsense. Why do you think there are different schools of thought? Different people can have different interprations and opinions, which is why discussion is encouraged. The Qur'an clearly says there is no compulsion in religion which renders your whole point moot.

Asim90

That means that if I have a problem with sexual slavery and wife-beating, I'm not a Muslim.

:lol:

Is this a serious point? Please tell me you are joking.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"] Then you didn't understand what you read. Try to read it again. Maybe it will sink inNuck81

...aside from the justification the Pope gave for exceptional circumstances...