Racist bake sale, Pay by race. - CNN

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

Dear god, you're looking waaay too far into this. It's simplified for a reason. Basically, my point was to address the post of yours that said this;

"Before money is stripped away from people, I'd like to know where that money is going".

Then you asked if I had a problem with that statement. The answer is, yes, I do, and I bet you do too.

If you believe that statement, then you believe that ANYONE should get the money regardless of whether them getting the money is right or wrong. If you believe that statment, then someone who commits grand theft auto in college should get the money because you don't want to strip money away from people.

If you'd like to change your statement, go ahead. If not, then you're contradicting yourself.

Now, do you see what's wrong with your way of thinking? If something isn't right, we shouldn't keep doing it just because we don't know where the funds would be going. If a policy condones racism, that policy should be done away with. You're way of thinking is exactly why slavery wasn't abolished sooner. Too much money was involved even though they knew it was wrong.

MrGeezer

I'm pretty sure that "helping students get an education" and "keeping people as slaves" aren't quite on the same level.

You can keep saying that they're equivalent since "they both promote racism", but that's clearly a crock of ****.

As I said, this bakesale is racist. And yet, a hell of a lot of people here are fine with THAT racism because they think it serves an important purpose (exposing other racism). You notice how I haven't picked out the people who supported the racist bake sale and tried to equate them with klansmen and slave owners?

You'll also notice that I never said that I'm against taking away money from ALL people (unless I know where the money is going). I never said that it that statement applies to EVERYONE. So...good job on determining that I don't believe that that statement applies to everyone. Instead of running around trying to play games, you could have just asked me that to begin with.

Helping students get an education based on what color their skin is and keeping people as slaves based on what color their skin is aren't on the same level, you're right. One is much worse than the other. But that is irrelevant. Using you're logic, both should be kept going due to financial reasons, regardless of whether they aren't fair or wrong.

Let's just drop this though. It's getting ridiculous.

Let's just both agree to this statement; If the amount of financial aid in the budget stays the same, then AA should be abolished. Agreed?

You can't be for an unfair bake sale because it sheds light on unfair practices, while simultaneously against those practices on the basis that "it's not fair". If it was all about being fair, then you'd be against BOTH.

MrGeezer

Clearly you haven't read t he article, where student unions are totally ignoring the differing prices due to race, yet they're opposed to the bake sale.

Clearly you haven't read t he article, where student unions are totally ignoring the differing prices due to race, yet they're opposed to the bake sale.

Nibroc420

Yes, they OPPOSE the bake sale. How does that have anything to do with what I said?

I wasn't even talking about them in the first place, I was talking about the people in THIS thread who are cheering on racism because they think that it helps to shed a light on racism.

Helping students get an education based on what color their skin is and keeping people as slaves based on what color their skin is aren't on the same level, you're right. One is much worse than the other. But that is irrelevant. Using you're logic, both should be kept going due to financial reasons, regardless of whether they aren't fair or wrong.

Let's just drop this though. It's getting ridiculous.

Let's just both agree to this statement; If the amount of financial aid in the budget stays the same, then AA should be abolished. Agreed?

SpartanMSU

Probably, assuming that the money was indeed redistributed to someone who needed it more.

In any case, I see effects as being more important than principles. I'm not going to stick to my principles if it's likely to get someone hurt, and slavery wasn't wrong because it was "racist" or "unfair". Slavery is wrong because it's a ****ing horrible thing to do to another human being. "Racist" and "unfair" have so little to do with it that it's not even funny. (After all, would it somehow be less terrible if I enslaved another dude on the basis of things OTHER than race?) In the same way, I'm not going to "oppose racism" if the effect is to keep a ****load of kids from being to go to college. At that point, the hell with principles.

Instead of race how about we decide financial aid based on income and ones economic standing? It would still help disadvantaged minorities. HoolaHoopMan

I agree with the bake sale. I think university admissions should be based on a person's abilities and achievements, not their race.

That's almost as unfair as crushing other demographics for centuries to allow a particular race to control a vast majority of power and wealth in the country.

I agree with the bake sale. I think university admissions should be based on a person's abilities and achievements, not their race.

MathMattS

[QUOTE="MathMattS"]

I agree with the bake sale. I think university admissions should be based on a person's abilities and achievements, not their race.

EntropyWins

great way to get people talking about it, and I completely understand what there trying to say. Race should not be considered in university aplications, or job aplications, e.t.c.

no one should get unfair advantages.

This is really immature. What point are they even trying to prove?

It sounds like this idea came from a 13 year old girl.

This is really immature. What point are they even trying to prove?

It sounds like this idea came from a 13 year old girl.

martinX3X

I thought the point was really clear.

Race should have no bearing on how much somebody should pay to go to college. In this case, at their bake sale.

Speaks volumes about the intelligence of that 13 year old girl...

great way to get people talking about it, and I completely understand what there trying to say. Race should not be considered in university aplications, or job aplications, e.t.c.

no one should get unfair advantages.

Fundai

If no one at the bake sale was getting unfair advantages, then that would ruin the entire point.

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

great way to get people talking about it, and I completely understand what there trying to say. Race should not be considered in university aplications, or job aplications, e.t.c.

no one should get unfair advantages.

MrGeezer

If no one at the bake sale was getting unfair advantages, then that would ruin the entire point.

Completely missed the point.DroidPhysX

What point is that? That racism is an acceptable way to criticize racism?

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

great way to get people talking about it, and I completely understand what there trying to say. Race should not be considered in university aplications, or job aplications, e.t.c.

no one should get unfair advantages.

MrGeezer

If no one at the bake sale was getting unfair advantages, then that would ruin the entire point.

:l

Ya, I know.. obviosuly you misunderstood me. I support the bakesale idea because it puts light on the injustice of giving advantages to minoritys... every one should be completely equal and background should have nothing to do with personal merit.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] Completely missed the point.MrGeezer

What point is that? That racism is an acceptable way to criticize racism?

You've never heard of satire? Irony? Both are legitimate ways to make a point, or an argument.

Ya, I know.. obviosuly you misunderstood me. I support the bakesale idea because it puts light on the injustice of giving advantages to minoritys...

Fundai

So...sometimes it's okay to support racism?

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

Ya, I know.. obviosuly you misunderstood me. I support the bakesale idea because it puts light on the injustice of giving advantages to minoritys...

MrGeezer

So...sometimes it's okay to support racism?

The bake sale is putting racism in light by using a smaller example to bring awarness to it. nothing wrong with that.

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

Ya, I know.. obviosuly you misunderstood me. I support the bakesale idea because it puts light on the injustice of giving advantages to minoritys...

MrGeezer

So...sometimes it's okay to support racism?

You've never heard of satire? Irony? Both are legitimate ways to make a point, or an argument.

Fundai

Ask yourself this...was there any way they could have made the same point WITHOUT being racist?

That's almost as unfair as crushing other demographics for centuries to allow a particular race to control a vast majority of power and wealth in the country.

EntropyWins

You do realize, of course, that the history of mankind is a tale of the aggressive use of force by one group against another, yes?

The civil war has been over for almost 150 years. Jim Crowe and all those other lovely, democratic policies in the south have been abolished for over 40 years now. Just how long are we going to persist in this notion that minorities are incapable of doing for themselves without help from the govt?

As I stated in an earlier post: Affirmative Action is the soft racism of low expectations. "Poor minority, you know he can't make it on his own without our benevolence." Its a disgusting notion that has no place in a republic of free peoples.

Pretty sure they were making a point about Affirmative Action and the use of race in criteria of applications.DroidPhysX

They themselves ADMIT that what they are doing is inherently racist. There's no question about that.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

Pretty sure they were making a point about Affirmative Action and the use of race in criteria of applications.MrGeezer

They themselves ADMIT that what they are doing is inherently racist. There's no question about that.

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

You've never heard of satire? Irony? Both are legitimate ways to make a point, or an argument.

MrGeezer

Ask yourself this...was there any way they could have made the same point WITHOUT being racist?

sure. but would people have listened?

sure. but would people have listened?

Fundai

So it is okay to be racist as long as it serves a useful purpose?

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

sure. but would people have listened?

MrGeezer

So it is okay to be racist as long as it serves a useful purpose?

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

sure. but would people have listened?

MrGeezer

So it is okay to be racist as long as it serves a useful purpose?

if being racist in a little way to PROVE A POINT might help remove serious racism in a much larger way the ya :l

How can you not see that they were making a point about using race as a factor in applications? Being racist was the point...DroidPhysX

They didn't have to be racist in order to make that point. They could have made the exact same point without being racist. Instead, they chose to do it in a racist way because it'd get more attention.

That's pretty much saying that racism is okay if the ends justify the means. That IS an admission that sometimes racism is okay.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]How can you not see that they were making a point about using race as a factor in applications? Being racist was the point...MrGeezer

They didn't have to be racist in order to make that point. They could have made the exact same point without being racist. Instead, they chose to do it in a racist way because it'd get more attention.

That's pretty much saying that racism is okay if the ends justify the means. That IS an admission that sometimes racism is okay.

if being racist in a little way to PROVE A POINT might help remove serious racism in a much larger way the ya :l

Fundai

Now that we've admitted that sometimes racism is good, then how does saying "that's racist" mean that something is bad?

So how were they supposed to make the point without being racist? I want to be enlightened. DroidPhysX

Written letters to the paper. Organized a protest. Handed out flyers.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]So how were they supposed to make the point without being racist? I want to be enlightened. MrGeezer

Written letters to the paper. Organized a protest. Handed out flyers.

I was talking about the content and substance not how they were going to do it.DroidPhysX

What, you mean word for word what their letters and flyers would say? How the hell would I know?

But you know, if they've actually got a point, then presumably they can make their case in a well reasoned (and totally not racist) commentary.

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

if being racist in a little way to PROVE A POINT might help remove serious racism in a much larger way the ya :l

MrGeezer

Now that we've admitted that sometimes racism is good, then how does saying "that's racist" mean that something is bad?

... Dude, this is being racist at a bake sale. And not even serious racism, and its about cookies, and its the oposite of what racism is usually thought of. to prove a point, that inequal treatment is going both ways in our society. Its bassicly as far as you can get from seriously being racist. Racsim is bad if it stops people from having equal opurtunity as the rest... and your point is making no sense at all. So you think its RIGHT that latinos, blacks, or Asians have an easier time getting into a university?

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]So how were they supposed to make the point without being racist? I want to be enlightened. MrGeezer

Written letters to the paper. Organized a protest. Handed out flyers.

people would've still called that racist, because there are sheeple out there who think they need to stop racism by giving benefits to certain races.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]So how were they supposed to make the point without being racist? I want to be enlightened. MrGeezer

Written letters to the paper. Organized a protest. Handed out flyers.

This "bake sale" has drawn media attention as well as making an emotional impact on people. Of course the news did its best to make this as biased as possible. At any rate. The impact this is having far exceeds what they could have done with flyers and/or a protest. The problem is some people are walking away with the wrong interpretation of the sale.

As a single white man I support this bake sale. I'm sick of being refused hand outs because I'm white. I'm also sick of all my rights being thrown out the window because some minority group is offended by my way of life and beliefs. If they don't like it then they can stay in their own countries.

... Dude, this is being racist at a bake sale. And not even serious racism, and its about cookies, and its the oposite of what racism is usually thought of. to prove a point, that inequal treatment is going both ways in our society. Its bassicly as far as you can get from seriously being racist. Racsim is bad if it stops people from having equal opurtunity as the rest... and your point is making no sense at all. So you think its RIGHT that latinos, blacks, or Asians have an easier time getting into a university?

Fundai

Notice that what you're doing is making excuses for why a particular racist act is acceptable (or even desirable).

Once you've done that, you've admitted that someone can make excuses for OTHER racist acts (after all, you know that someone's going to come along and try to make excuses for why minorities SHOULD "have an easier time getting into university").

And at that point, "it's racist" sort of ceases to even be an issue.

people would've still called that racist, because there are sheeple out there who think they need to stop racism by giving benefits to certain races.

Fundai

People can call you racist for anything. That (hopefully) doesn't mean that you say to yourself, "people are going to call me racist anyway, so I'd might as be racist."

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]I was talking about the content and substance not how they were going to do it.MrGeezer

What, you mean word for word what their letters and flyers would say? How the hell would I know?

But you know, if they've actually got a point, then presumably they can make their case in a well reasoned (and totally not racist) commentary.

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

... Dude, this is being racist at a bake sale. And not even serious racism, and its about cookies, and its the oposite of what racism is usually thought of. to prove a point, that inequal treatment is going both ways in our society. Its bassicly as far as you can get from seriously being racist. Racsim is bad if it stops people from having equal opurtunity as the rest... and your point is making no sense at all. So you think its RIGHT that latinos, blacks, or Asians have an easier time getting into a university?

MrGeezer

Notice that what you're doing is making excuses for why a particular racist act is acceptable (or even desirable).

Once you've done that, you've admitted that someone can make excuses for OTHER racist acts (after all, you know that someone's going to come along and try to make excuses for why minorities SHOULD "have an easier time getting into university").

And at that point, "it's racist" sort of ceases to even be an issue.

:l your obviously blind to the point that:

1) Its only a bakesale

2) ITs trying to solve the problem of racism by by bringin attention to it

3) I'm not making excuses for a racist act. Yes these guys are being racist, but Do you think that there trying to discriminate people or they see people as less. no. the holding an awareness event.

If its racist has ceased to be an issue, then why are you still making a big fuss? I'm dealing with a bigger issue of equality. These guys have just came up with a unique way to bring awarness to a problem.

So they're supposed to accommodate people who are sensitive to the issue of race? Won't help the message.DroidPhysX

Which again sort of says that racism is okay if the ends justify the means.

And if we accept that to be the case, then merely pointing something out as being racist doesn't mean that it's not actually good.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]How can you not see that they were making a point about using race as a factor in applications? Being racist was the point...MrGeezer

They didn't have to be racist in order to make that point. They could have made the exact same point without being racist. Instead, they chose to do it in a racist way because it'd get more attention.

That's pretty much saying that racism is okay if the ends justify the means. That IS an admission that sometimes racism is okay.

Clearly "satire' is waaaay over your head.

:l your obviously blind to the point that:

1) Its only a bakesale

2) ITs trying to solve the problem of racism by by bringin attention to it

3) I'm not making excuses for a racist act. Yes these guys are being racist, but Do you think that there trying to discriminate people or they see people as less. no. the holding an awareness event.

If its racist has ceased to be an issue, then why are you still making a big fuss? I'm dealing with a bigger issue of equality. These guys have just came up with a unique way to bring awarness to a problem.

Fundai

You ARE making excuses for a racist act. The people admitted that the bakesale was inherently racist, and you're coming up with reasons for why it's good that they did it.

And if your basis for justifying it is that the ends justify the means, then ANYONE can do something racist and say that "the ends justify the means in this case".

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]How can you not see that they were making a point about using race as a factor in applications? Being racist was the point...SpartanMSU

They didn't have to be racist in order to make that point. They could have made the exact same point without being racist. Instead, they chose to do it in a racist way because it'd get more attention.

That's pretty much saying that racism is okay if the ends justify the means. That IS an admission that sometimes racism is okay.

Clearly "satire' is waaaay over your head.

yep. Its always sad when people don't understand satire, because its one of the most beautiful ways to make an argument.

[QUOTE="martinX3X"]

This is really immature. What point are they even trying to prove?

It sounds like this idea came from a 13 year old girl.

airshocker

I thought the point was really clear.

Race should have no bearing on how much somebody should pay to go to college. In this case, at their bake sale.

Speaks volumes about the intelligence of that 13 year old girl...

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

:l your obviously blind to the point that:

1) Its only a bakesale

2) ITs trying to solve the problem of racism by by bringin attention to it

3) I'm not making excuses for a racist act. Yes these guys are being racist, but Do you think that there trying to discriminate people or they see people as less. no. the holding an awareness event.

If its racist has ceased to be an issue, then why are you still making a big fuss? I'm dealing with a bigger issue of equality. These guys have just came up with a unique way to bring awarness to a problem.

MrGeezer

You ARE making excuses for a racist act. The people admitted that the bakesale was inherently racist, and you're coming up with reasons for why it's good that they did it.

And if your basis for justifying it is that the ends justify the means, then ANYONE can do something racist and say that "the ends justify the means in this case".

I don't think anyone in their right mindcan say: "I stopped this guy from being a doctor, because of his race, but the end result will make everything better".

But this group guys can say: "we made a bake sale demonstration where we were racist, but it was all to prove a point and bring awarness."

see. Obviously not every racist act can be justified. Which I of course never even tried to lead to in the first place... Which brings me back to my point: You ever heard of satire?