Raise Taxes on America's Rich, it's the Patriotic thing to do!

And yet you still don't understand the fact the consumers end up paying the tax, not the evil corporation.

SpartanMSU

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

Supply and Demand is a basic economic concept which applies to business and how people get paid....

If you understand Supply and Demand you will understand why people get paid what they do. Maybe I should say Microecon 101

SpartanMSU

And the concept I posted was based off of Supply and Demand.....

I think it's cute that you play stupid. If you actually are this stupid I suggest getting off the internet and hitting the books.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="FalcoLX"]Funny you mention use to society, because what does your career contribute? You work at a casting agency or something like that, right? Farmers work all day in the heat doing something that the country depends on, but they don't earn as much, so try and explain how you deserve more than they do when we'd be just fine without your job, but we'd starve without someone to grow food.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"] Fun fact: Farmers are often VERY well off and have enough in capital to fund a very nice retirement without any contributions outside of normal social security. It's just very difficult to get into farming since it requires a small fortune in capital to start up (unless you inherit it which is often the case)Sajedene

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Okay, not targeting this at any particular person, but the whole "go back to [subject 101" thing is kind of lame... it's a quasi-ad hominem that really serves no purpose...

And by the way, the intro econ classes at my college are Econ 19800 and Econ 19900, just saying :P

LJS9502_basic

Like I said, it wasn't meant to be targeting you...

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Okay, not targeting this at any particular person, but the whole "go back to [subject 101" thing is kind of lame... it's a quasi-ad hominem that really serves no purpose...

And by the way, the intro econ classes at my college are Econ 19800 and Econ 19900, just saying :P

chessmaster1989

Like I said, it wasn't meant to be targeting you...

I don't get it. A person who works his hardest should pay morebecause they earn more because they worked more?We should all pay an equal set of taxes so that a poor man may become rich. I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot when you have the oppurtunity to be rich?I don't get it. Hell maybe we should punish gamespot users for having so much posts. It's nothing but envy and greed. Yes greed. Simply because I get the oppression that those who advocate the progressive tax also want to redistribute the wealth.

Of course, people will say "the rich have high expectations" or that "rich people are corrupt." If you say that, poor people stay poor because of their terrible habits and lower their expectations so that they can trick everyone into giving them money so that they can be corrupt as well. See! Generalizations! Maybe a person is rich because they worked hard and pushed themselves. Maybe a poor person is poor because they sufferedbecause of anextreme situation. It's hard to tell because everyone's life story is different and everyone's going to have a flaw that will affect them.

Paying taxes isn't patriotic. Joining the military is patriotic, hell, waving a flag would be patriotic but those are choices. Taxes aren't an option, it's forced upon you by the government. But there's a reason so that the government can fund various programs but then comes the concern that maybe those various programs are wasteful and insignificant. Patriotism is when you join the military, protest/support your government, or hell wave a flag, but these are just choices you can make because the government doesn't force it upon you.

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."

Frederic Bastiat

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Oh I only used it because he kept using it. I like to talk the language of who I'm conversing with. If you get my drift.

LJS9502_basic

Like I said, it wasn't meant to be targeting you...

>_> does this mean you don't pray to him every night? :x

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Like I said, it wasn't meant to be targeting you...

chessmaster1989

>_> does this mean you don't pray to him every night? :x

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Okay. I won't curse Clint tonight.:PLJS9502_basic

>_> does this mean you don't pray to him every night? :x

Clint Eastwood is displeased...

[QUOTE="Vuurk"] So you think that the CEO of yahoo deserves to be making 120 million a year while people who are working their asses off are getting paid low salaries? Sajedene

I don't want to say that CEOs don't work hard, but is it humanly possibly for them to be working hundreds of times harder than their employees? This is where this line of reasoning starts to falter for me.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

I don't get it. A person who works his hardest should pay morebecause they earn more because they worked more?We should all pay an equal set of taxes so that a poor man may become rich. I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot when you have the oppurtunity to be rich?I don't get it. Hell maybe we should punish gamespot users for having so much posts. It's nothing but envy and greed. Yes greed. Simply because I get the oppression that those who advocate the progressive tax also want to redistribute the wealth.

Of course, people will say "the rich have high expectations" or that "rich people are corrupt." If you say that, poor people stay poor because of their terrible habits and lower their expectations so that they can trick everyone into giving them money so that they can be corrupt as well. See! Generalizations! Maybe a person is rich because they worked hard and pushed themselves. Maybe a poor person is poor because they sufferedbecause of anextreme situation. It's hard to tell because everyone's life story is different and everyone's going to have a flaw that will affect them.

Paying taxes isn't patriotic. Joining the military is patriotic, hell, waving a flag would be patriotic but those are choices. Taxes aren't an option, it's forced upon you by the government. But there's a reason so that the government can fund various programs but then comes the concern that maybe those various programs are wasteful and insignificant. Patriotism is when you join the military, protest/support your government, or hell wave a flag, but these are just choices you can make because the government doesn't force it upon you.

Vuurk

I do. People should be payed for what agreed upon by both parties as the value of payment of the labor.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Vuurk"] So you think that the CEO of yahoo deserves to be making 120 million a year while people who are working their asses off are getting paid low salaries? D_Battery

I don't want to say that CEOs don't work hard, but is it humanly possibly for them to be working hundreds of times harder than their employees? This is where this line of reasoning starts to falter for me.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Vuurk"] So you think that the CEO of yahoo deserves to be making 120 million a year while people who are working their asses off are getting paid low salaries? D_Battery

I don't want to say that CEOs don't work hard, but is it humanly possibly for them to be working hundreds of times harder than their employees? This is where this line of reasoning starts to falter for me.

It's not effort that people get payed for. It is the value of the labor.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

I don't get it. A person who works his hardest should pay morebecause they earn more because they worked more?We should all pay an equal set of taxes so that a poor man may become rich. I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot when you have the oppurtunity to be rich?I don't get it. Hell maybe we should punish gamespot users for having so much posts. It's nothing but envy and greed. Yes greed. Simply because I get the oppression that those who advocate the progressive tax also want to redistribute the wealth.

Of course, people will say "the rich have high expectations" or that "rich people are corrupt." If you say that, poor people stay poor because of their terrible habits and lower their expectations so that they can trick everyone into giving them money so that they can be corrupt as well. See! Generalizations! Maybe a person is rich because they worked hard and pushed themselves. Maybe a poor person is poor because they sufferedbecause of anextreme situation. It's hard to tell because everyone's life story is different and everyone's going to have a flaw that will affect them.

Paying taxes isn't patriotic. Joining the military is patriotic, hell, waving a flag would be patriotic but those are choices. Taxes aren't an option, it's forced upon you by the government. But there's a reason so that the government can fund various programs but then comes the concern that maybe those various programs are wasteful and insignificant. Patriotism is when you join the military, protest/support your government, or hell wave a flag, but these are just choices you can make because the government doesn't force it upon you.

Vuurk

What part of people are paid according to what the market is willing to bear do you not understand?

The things I would say if I actually had the energy for a political debate right now.

You know what would be patriotic? If politicians would actually reduce the size of government and gives states the rights that they deserve.

You know what would be patriotic? If politicians would actually reduce the size of government and gives states the rights that they deserve.

SuperVegeta518

Screw reducing the size of government. You will not, WILL NOT, defeat the debt by reducing the Federal government's size, it will only to allow Corporations more powerful than STATES to fill the void and screw us over hard with no Government to regulate them. Raising taxes on those not beaten down by this recession (aka the filthy rich), punishing those who blazed the path toward this mess (the banks, the health INSURANCE scammery, Darth Cheney and his many goons), punish corporations for using foreign labor when they can be putting Americans to work (yeah stuff will cost more, but people will actually have money from their JOB to buy great American Product), and fully regulating the market like it should be is the only way to true prosperity.

[QUOTE="SuperVegeta518"]

You know what would be patriotic? If politicians would actually reduce the size of government and gives states the rights that they deserve.

Ultimas_Blade

Screw reducing the size of government. You will not, WILL NOT, defeat the debt by reducing the Federal government's size, it will only to allow Corporations more powerful than STATES to fill the void and screw us over hard with no Government to regulate them. Raising taxes on those not beaten down by this recession (aka the filthy rich), punishing those who blazed the path toward this mess (the banks, the health INSURANCE scammery, Darth Cheney and his many goons), punish corporations for using foreign labor when they can be putting Americans to work (yeah stuff will cost more, but people will actually have money from their JOB to buy great American Product), and fully regulating the market like it should be is the only way to true prosperity.

You know what I wish? I wish that I get more out of these public services since I pay more. The more I pay, the more services I should be entitled to. Why should I pay more and get the same treatment as someone who isn't contributing as much to society as I am?Sajedene

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

I don't get it. A person who works his hardest should pay morebecause they earn more because they worked more?We should all pay an equal set of taxes so that a poor man may become rich. I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot when you have the oppurtunity to be rich?I don't get it. Hell maybe we should punish gamespot users for having so much posts. It's nothing but envy and greed. Yes greed. Simply because I get the oppression that those who advocate the progressive tax also want to redistribute the wealth.

Of course, people will say "the rich have high expectations" or that "rich people are corrupt." If you say that, poor people stay poor because of their terrible habits and lower their expectations so that they can trick everyone into giving them money so that they can be corrupt as well. See! Generalizations! Maybe a person is rich because they worked hard and pushed themselves. Maybe a poor person is poor because they sufferedbecause of anextreme situation. It's hard to tell because everyone's life story is different and everyone's going to have a flaw that will affect them.

Paying taxes isn't patriotic. Joining the military is patriotic, hell, waving a flag would be patriotic but those are choices. Taxes aren't an option, it's forced upon you by the government. But there's a reason so that the government can fund various programs but then comes the concern that maybe those various programs are wasteful and insignificant. Patriotism is when you join the military, protest/support your government, or hell wave a flag, but these are just choices you can make because the government doesn't force it upon you.

Vuurk

Do you think that the president should have all the powers/perks he has while people work their asses off? Note I said powers like starting a nuclear war.

CEOs are there for a reason. It's either part of a hierarchy or because they worked hard to get where they were. For example, the vice president of Wegmans started off as a cashier for Wegmans. Our night managers started off working at sub shop, coffee, bakery, or whatever. CEOs have more responsibilities and a lot is expected from them in order to keep a company alive, otherwise the whole company do terrible, people will lose jobs, and he'll be out of buisness (or look for a bailout). But it's such a rarity for a CEO to do that, unless they know they'll get a bailout from the government.

I work at Wegmans busting my ass off for 9.20/hr, and I'm fine with the Wegmans CEO making millions because the company is doing well, therefore he deserves it.

To me the issue is very simple: The rich wouldn't be able to get rich without the hard work of the not-so-rich in the first place. You need people building your infrastructure, manufacturing the goods, being on the phone all day long to deal with costumers etc. The reason they get paid so little is because of supply and demand. There's an amazing number of people who can do these simple jobs, so 5% or 10% of the country is without a job. Because the supply is bigger than the demand, the value you get for doing the jobs drops, and the wage you get isn't nearly as much as the value you're making for your corporation. That's why businesses want the US to have an unemployment rate of 5% rather than 1 or 2%.

People saying that taking money from the rich that earned it fairly assumes that civilization works in a way that is fair. That assumption is wrong.

I would instead argue for experimenting with some sort of consumption tax instead of a tax increase on high incomes. At the very least, it could help curtail the U.S.'s unhealthy consumer mentality.

I pay taxes, but I also get a lot of it back because I own a home. The rich are the same way, except they own a lot more things they can deduct and write off because they can pay accountants to manage all their assests to avoid taxes. I have no sympathy for them paying higher taxes, especially if they can still afford their $100K G-Wagen. If anything I would favor a national luxury sales tax instead of an income tax increase. Income is not always taxable if wealth is placed into certain market investments and properties. If they want to spend their hard earned money on expensive things (they could live without) that is their choice, and its going to cost them a little more.

[QUOTE="SuperVegeta518"]

You know what would be patriotic? If politicians would actually reduce the size of government and gives states the rights that they deserve.

Ultimas_Blade

Screw reducing the size of government. You will not, WILL NOT, defeat the debt by reducing the Federal government's size, it will only to allow Corporations more powerful than STATES to fill the void and screw us over hard with no Government to regulate them. Raising taxes on those not beaten down by this recession (aka the filthy rich), punishing those who blazed the path toward this mess (the banks, the health INSURANCE scammery, Darth Cheney and his many goons), punish corporations for using foreign labor when they can be putting Americans to work (yeah stuff will cost more, but people will actually have money from their JOB to buy great American Product), and fully regulating the market like it should be is the only way to true prosperity.

So much wealthy envy and ignorance in one post it's laughable.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]You know what I wish? I wish that I get more out of these public services since I pay more. The more I pay, the more services I should be entitled to. Why should I pay more and get the same treatment as someone who isn't contributing as much to society as I am?II_Seraphim_II

Uhhh...there's different tax brackets that pay different percentages. The bottom 50% of the country actually get more money back from the government than they pay in taxes. It's easy to say SPEND SPEND SPEND and TAKE TAKE TAKE when it's not your money.

[QUOTE="Vuurk"]

What part of people are paid according to what the market is willing to bear do you not understand?

DucksBrains

'Outside perspective' is a giant load of crap. What you say doesn't make sense because you keep assuming all work is equal, here's a cold hard fact of life. It is not.

Their is only so much money in our countries economy. Most of the wealth is owned/controlled by the super rich (people making tens of millions every year). The rich could still be very wealth and be able to live a luxurious life without having an amount of money that is simply unnecessary. Their is no reason anyone needs 120 million a year, he couldn't even spend that much if he wanted to. If the wealth was more distributed among our country, then it wouldn't be going to waste. It is going to waste as of now because he isn't using probably 90% of his money. It is sitting in accounts or investments. People could be using that money for food, clothes, or education costs. Vuurk

Investments are something that drives the economy. READ AN ECONOMICS BOOK!!!!

One of my siblings father in law is paid every year not to plant on land he owns. As he is actually not a farmer...he has never had the intention to plant in his life. Government at work.LJS9502_basic

I pay taxes, but I also get a lot of it back because I own a home. The rich are the same way, except they own a lot more things they can deduct and write off because they can pay accountants to manage all their assests to avoid taxes. I have no sympathy for them paying higher taxes, especially if they can still afford their $100K G-Wagen. If anything I would favor a national luxury sales tax instead of an income tax increase. Income is not always taxable if wealth is placed into certain market investments and properties. If they want to spend their hard earned money on expensive things (they could live without) that is their choice, and its going to cost them a little more.

Darthmatt

Wealth envy much? And I'm sure you have tons of things you could live without. Unless you live like people in 3rd world countries who struggle to survive every day, then you have no room to criticize others of their wealth. Compared to the majority of the population of the world, people living in the U.S. are EXTREMELY wealthy, even if you're considered "poor".

[QUOTE="Vuurk"]Their is only so much money in our countries economy. Most of the wealth is owned/controlled by the super rich (people making tens of millions every year). The rich could still be very wealth and be able to live a luxurious life without having an amount of money that is simply unnecessary. Their is no reason anyone needs 120 million a year, he couldn't even spend that much if he wanted to. If the wealth was more distributed among our country, then it wouldn't be going to waste. It is going to waste as of now because he isn't using probably 90% of his money. It is sitting in accounts or investments. People could be using that money for food, clothes, or education costs. SpartanMSU

Investments are something that drives the economy. READ AN ECONOMICS BOOK!!!!

:lol:

It's quite clear he doesn't know what an investor is.

I for one don't think we need to increase the welfare state beyond what it is now. And there's also the consideration of federal powers going overboard. Let the states make thier own decisions for once. I'm not against a state haveing complete socialized healthcare. But, lets see how that goes first.

I would instead argue for experimenting with some sort of consumption tax instead of a tax increase on high incomes. At the very least, it could help curtail the U.S.'s unhealthy consumer mentality.

jetpower3

I for one don't think we need to increase the welfare state beyond what it is now. And there's also the consideration of federal powers going overboard. Let the states make thier own decisions for once.

narlymech

I for one don't think we need to increase the welfare state beyond what it is now. And there's also the consideration of federal powers going overboard. Let the states make thier own decisions for once.

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

I would instead argue for experimenting with some sort of consumption tax instead of a tax increase on high incomes. At the very least, it could help curtail the U.S.'s unhealthy consumer mentality.

Ontain

Wrong. A consumption tax like the FairTax would increase the percentage of tax revenue the rich pay. You get rebates for necessities. If you are spending below the poverty level, you will not be taxed.