"I will never change in my basic idea that non-violence is the most potent weapon available to the Negro in his struggle for freedom and justice. I think for the Negro to turn to violence would be both impractical and immoral"
"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."
What's your point?
That MLK's views on violent protest are more complicated than that one quote you posted. But I doubt you really wanted an answer since you're just a troll.
"I will never change in my basic idea that non-violence is the most potent weapon available to the Negro in his struggle for freedom and justice. I think for the Negro to turn to violence would be both impractical and immoral"
The quote doesn't say that MLK approved of riots. He would most certainly condemn them. What the quote shows is that MLK understood what a riot is really about. MLK wasn't just a dogmatic, drone of non-violence that people portray him to be. He was a complicated man, capable of empathizing with people who might not share his views on civil disobedience.
"Martin Luther King once said that when he listened to Malcolm speak, even he got angry." - James Cone
And for those who say that rioting never solves anything. What about police reform in the wake of the L.A. Riots? Or a few decades earlier after the Watts Riots? Or what happened in France in 1968 with students and workers rioting, which led to labor reform? Or what about the LGBT rights movement that came out of the Stonewall Riots? Or more recently, what about the DoJ report and subsequent reform that came out of Ferguson? (Although I wouldn't characterize that last one as a riot).
*edit*
I forgot about the Boston Tea Party. Probably the most famous riot of the last 300 years or so.
@silkylove: without context I could see people using that quote as MLK condoning riots
I've thought about that quote a lot. Since it's impossible to ask him, I like to believe that he was neither condoning nor condemning the act of rioting. I think he viewed rioting as a symptom of a larger problem. He never wavered in his own belief that nonviolence was the answer. However, he allowed Malcolm X to use his SCLC offices when Malcolm was still a part of the Nation of Islam, which would suggest that he did not unilaterally condemn what Malcolm was saying. Martin's personal philosophy made sense even outside of his Christian beliefs. Black people are in the minority. A race war would be doomed to failure. But I think he was also aware that the more radical elements in the civil rights movement were one of the reasons why he had the ear of presidents. That's just my thoughts on it though.
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Gray's crime was possession of a switchblade, which they found after they stopped him. He ran, but was "arrested without force or incident." Didn't know that was a crime worthy of getting your spinal cord severed while in police custody.
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Gray's crime was possession of a switchblade, which they found after they stopped him. He ran, but was "arrested without force or incident." Didn't know that was a crime worthy of getting your spinal cord severed while in police custody.
Okay. It's obviously a grievous accident or the result of excessive force. Does that somehow justify these violent acts? Definitely not.
As far as my thoughts, I'll quote a tweet I saw a little while ago, basically sums up my thoughts nicely.
"So to protest police violence, you steal a 50 inch TV from a store owner who had nothing to do with the situation?"
Well lets be honest, aside from race, that owner is part of the bourgeois and the status quo. That owner benefits from police protection, the same police that is responsible for heinous act after heinous act in these communities.
This just brings balance. The looter take the TV and then can educate and reciprocate his offspring about police corruption with the help of said TV. It is a net gain for society.
Riots are very seldom logical. It's more so instinctual. So I guess the justification would be human nature. It is a general lashing out against authority by a group that feels dissatisfaction based upon socio-political circumstances. Rioters almost always riot in their own neighborhoods, since going into wealthy neighborhoods usually means that authorities will be more likely to receive authorization to use deadly force.
It's kind of sending the wrong message to tell people violence is senseless and counter-productive, but then the only time any meaningful national attention is paid to the plight of the community is when people riot.
As far as my thoughts, I'll quote a tweet I saw a little while ago, basically sums up my thoughts nicely.
"So to protest police violence, you steal a 50 inch TV from a store owner who had nothing to do with the situation?"
Well lets be honest, aside from race, that owner is part bourgeois and the status quo. That owner benefits from police protection, the same police that is responsible for heinous act after heinous act in these communities.
This just bring balance. The looter take the TV and then can educate and reciprocate his offspring about police corruption with the help of said TV. It is a net gain for society.
this guy knows.
you eat too many of those shitty vanilla oreos, you're going to need some more toilet paper.
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Just like you guys riot over a sports game, now thats a just reason to riot hey.......
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Just like you guys riot over a sports game, now thats a just reason to riot hey.......
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Just like you guys riot over a sports game, now thats a just reason to riot hey.......
Nowhere in any of his posting did he say he supported the riots after sporting events (i'm guessing you're going after the vancouver incident).
@lostrib I agree with your view of MJK's quote. He was against violence. I think it was him answering a question in regards to why people were rioting in the UK.
As to what happened to Freddie Gray, nobody knows the whole situation yet. It's irrelevant. Destroying property, hurting police officers, stealing cars, throwing rocks and other objects at people, targeting people based on their race is just plain ignorant and will further DIVIDE the racial barrier that is already there.
This riot isn't going to change anything. They're just doing it to cause pointless chaos.
Exactly. It was just like during Ferguson when students in my area (Denver, many states away) walked of out class "protesting". A group came in my library and I overhead one of them say, "What are we protesting?" They didn't care. They just used it as an excuse to get out of class.
This riot isn't going to change anything. They're just doing it to cause pointless chaos.
Exactly. It was just like during Ferguson when students in my area (Denver, many states away) walked of out class "protesting". A group came in my library and I overhead one of them say, "What are we protesting?" They didn't care. They just used it as an excuse to get out of class.
Agreed. This is esculating a lot more extreme levels than ferguson.
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Gray's crime was possession of a switchblade, which they found after they stopped him. He ran, but was "arrested without force or incident." Didn't know that was a crime worthy of getting your spinal cord severed while in police custody.
Okay. It's obviously a grievous accident or the result of excessive force. Does that somehow justify these violent acts? Definitely not.
I don't think these riots are solely about Freddie Gray's death. I believe he was the straw that broke the camel's back, per say. And that the riots are a culmination of tensions bubbling over in Baltimore for years now, a city with a lot of problems when it comes to crime and poverty. Are the riots are justified? That depends on who you ask. But it is important to note that the only time anyone mentions the plight of African Americans in the US is when an event like this occurs and even then more air time is given to property damage. While those damages pale in comparison to the amounts police brutality suits paid out in Baltimore.
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Gray's crime was possession of a switchblade, which they found after they stopped him. He ran, but was "arrested without force or incident." Didn't know that was a crime worthy of getting your spinal cord severed while in police custody.
Okay. It's obviously a grievous accident or the result of excessive force. Does that somehow justify these violent acts? Definitely not.
I don't think these riots are solely about Freddie Gray's death. I believe he was the straw that broke the camel's back, per say. And that the riots are a culmination of tensions bubbling over in Baltimore for years now, a city with a lot of problems when it comes to crime and poverty. Are the riots are justified? That depends on who you ask. But it is important to note that the only time anyone mentions the plight of African Americans in the US is when an event like this occurs and even then more air time is given to property damage. While those damages pale in comparison to the amounts police brutality suits paid out in Baltimore.
Riots like this are never justified. I'm sorry, this is some stupid shit. The police force is mainly minorities, so there's no racial motivation here. People are acting like animals and don't care who or what they destroy.
@n64dd: Why are they never justified? I think it's faulty to presume a "one size fits all" is the correct way to frame the issue. It's not like these people were getting their voices heard prior to this. All throughout the internet I see attempts to dehumanize the rioters (even in this thread) with 0 attempt to critically think about WHY they are rioting, which is just reinforcing the fact that no one really cares about their situation. When you're stuck in a broken system this really is the last option you have and like @silkylove mentioned earlier in the thread there are instances where rioting has brought about positive changes.
@n64dd: Why are they never justified? I think it's faulty to presume a "one size fits all" is the correct way to frame the issue. It's not like these people were getting their voices heard prior to this. All throughout the internet I see attempts to dehumanize the rioters (even in this thread) with 0 attempt to critically think about WHY they are rioting, which is just reinforcing the fact that no one really cares about their situation. When you're stuck in a broken system this really is the last option you have and like @silkylove mentioned earlier in the thread there are instances where rioting has brought about positive changes.
Please learn this. There is a DIFFERENCE between knowing why they are rioting, and knowing rioting like this is wrong. Knowing the reason behind something doesn't give it justification. That's horrible logic, and is pure ignorance. They are hurting themselves, and others, destroying property and this will accomplish nothing. If you think mindless violence is a way to solve things, then you're part of the problem.
@n64dd: Why are they never justified? I think it's faulty to presume a "one size fits all" is the correct way to frame the issue. It's not like these people were getting their voices heard prior to this. All throughout the internet I see attempts to dehumanize the rioters (even in this thread) with 0 attempt to critically think about WHY they are rioting, which is just reinforcing the fact that no one really cares about their situation. When you're stuck in a broken system this really is the last option you have and like @silkylove mentioned earlier in the thread there are instances where rioting has brought about positive changes.
Please learn this. There is a DIFFERENCE between knowing why they are rioting, and knowing rioting like this is wrong. Knowing the reason behind something doesn't give it justification. That's horrible logic, and is pure ignorance. They are hurting themselves, and others, destroying property and this will accomplish nothing. If you think mindless violence is a way to solve things, then you're part of the problem.
I never said this particular instance is justified, I said it depends on what you think. As of now I'm undecided because it's too early to have an opinion one way or the other. I also don't agree with you describing it as "mindless violence". I said earlier I think these riots are a direct response to the societal situation in Baltimore for certain communities.
@n64dd: Why are they never justified? I think it's faulty to presume a "one size fits all" is the correct way to frame the issue. It's not like these people were getting their voices heard prior to this. All throughout the internet I see attempts to dehumanize the rioters (even in this thread) with 0 attempt to critically think about WHY they are rioting, which is just reinforcing the fact that no one really cares about their situation. When you're stuck in a broken system this really is the last option you have and like @silkylove mentioned earlier in the thread there are instances where rioting has brought about positive changes.
I just don't think that Freddie Gray's death should be the one to kickstart a riot. Very few are going to sympathize with Baltimore in this incident. I don't see how any change will occur from this.
My thoughts: Correct me if I'm wrong but the reason why Freddy Grey was chased was because he ran away from the police when he saw them drive through, giving the police legitimate reason to chase him (there was a supreme court case where if a person ran away from police in a high crime area, the police are in their rights to pursue said person, but no one knew that and neither did I until just recently). And then riots break out and all hell is loose. First off, even if Freddy Grey was a "thug," that is irrelevant. It's like shooting a sex offender when he/she wasn't committing a crime, saying he's a pervert, but then you're getting the chair/life in prison because the fact is, you just shot a sex offender. The reason for the police chase was because he ran away and the discovery of the switchblade was after the fact and may have been legal to own. And the fact that Eddie didn't receive medical attention for his injuries is a major concern on how the Baltimore Police conduct themselves. But then you have the rioting.
Fact is, violence and non-violence can both work depending on the circumstances but the rioting and looting is unacceptable and unhelpful in this situation. Perhaps the police are a problem in the city but looting isn't going to solve anything and reinforces the misconception that force must be answered with greater force or that punishment is only needed and not rehabilitation.
Fact is, there are long term and short term problems that need to be addressed: The poverty in Baltimore, lack of access to education, a broken criminal justice system, and a government in dire need of reform.
@n64dd: Why are they never justified? I think it's faulty to presume a "one size fits all" is the correct way to frame the issue. It's not like these people were getting their voices heard prior to this. All throughout the internet I see attempts to dehumanize the rioters (even in this thread) with 0 attempt to critically think about WHY they are rioting, which is just reinforcing the fact that no one really cares about their situation. When you're stuck in a broken system this really is the last option you have and like @silkylove mentioned earlier in the thread there are instances where rioting has brought about positive changes.
Please learn this. There is a DIFFERENCE between knowing why they are rioting, and knowing rioting like this is wrong. Knowing the reason behind something doesn't give it justification. That's horrible logic, and is pure ignorance. They are hurting themselves, and others, destroying property and this will accomplish nothing. If you think mindless violence is a way to solve things, then you're part of the problem.
I never said this particular instance is justified, I said it depends on what you think. As of now I'm undecided because it's too early to have an opinion one way or the other. I also don't agree with you describing it as "mindless violence". I said earlier I think these riots are a direct response to the societal situation in Baltimore for certain communities.
There's a wrong and right point of view. If you think this mindless violence, because that's what it is, has the possibility of being justified than your moral compass is all out of whack. As @drunk_pi said, all this does is reinforce that more force is needed to keep the peace. I understand your need to want to know all the facts and not let passion dictate your view of this, but this is pretty cut and dry. You don't destroy your city, hurt the people trying to protect you and the people who are the "victims", burn churches, steal cars, throw burning garbage cans at the elderly and cut fire hoses that are being used to be putting out fires.
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Just like you guys riot over a sports game, now thats a just reason to riot hey.......
Nowhere in any of his posting did he say he supported the riots after sporting events (i'm guessing you're going after the vancouver incident).
@lostrib I agree with your view of MJK's quote. He was against violence. I think it was him answering a question in regards to why people were rioting in the UK.
As to what happened to Freddie Gray, nobody knows the whole situation yet. It's irrelevant. Destroying property, hurting police officers, stealing cars, throwing rocks and other objects at people, targeting people based on their race is just plain ignorant and will further DIVIDE the racial barrier that is already there.
No what i am saying is if there ever is a reason to riot then this is it, fucking eric garner a black man was killed by police while peacefully asking why he is being harrased but i guess he deserved to be killed hey foxhound little fucking mug, and no police were even punished for the illegal choke hold.
Walter Scott a black man who was unarmed shot by an officer while running away. The officer proceeds to try and plant a taser near scotts body. Only reason justice was served to the officer is because it was all recorded on video, otherwise the officer would have gotten away with it, which raises questions to the Michael Brown incident.
And now Mr Gray another blackman mysteriously died with a severed spine at the hands of police while in custody, not to mention other killings, but blacks are not allowed to be angry, the anger is unjustified right? Blacks are over reacting. At what points are blacks allowed to be angry foxhound?
Lets not forget slavery and how slaves were violently taken from their homeland and violently treated, lets not forget how blacks were met with violence while peacefully protesting for their rights back in the day. Lets not forget the violence suffered by blacks by kkk. Lets not forget the repression suffered by blacks. Blacks were brought over and forged in violence and misery. And i dont give a flying **** if it was in the past it still effects people today.
Let me guess, a black guy (who was probably guilty for the crime he committed) died at the hands of police and now the black community is losing their shit for no reason?
Just like you guys riot over a sports game, now thats a just reason to riot hey.......
Nowhere in any of his posting did he say he supported the riots after sporting events (i'm guessing you're going after the vancouver incident).
@lostrib I agree with your view of MJK's quote. He was against violence. I think it was him answering a question in regards to why people were rioting in the UK.
As to what happened to Freddie Gray, nobody knows the whole situation yet. It's irrelevant. Destroying property, hurting police officers, stealing cars, throwing rocks and other objects at people, targeting people based on their race is just plain ignorant and will further DIVIDE the racial barrier that is already there.
No what i am saying is if there ever is a reason to riot then this is it, fucking eric garner a black man was killed by police while peacefully asking why he is being harrased but i guess he deserved to be killed hey foxhound little fucking mug, and no police were even punished for the illegal choke hold.
Walter Scott a black man who was unarmed shot by an officer while running away. The officer proceeds to try and plant a taser near scotts body. Only reason justice was served to the officer is because it was all recorded on video, otherwise the officer would have gotten away with it, which raises questions to the Michael Brown incident.
And now Mr Gray another blackman mysteriously died with a severed spine at the hands of police while in custody, not to mention other killings, but blacks are not allowed to be angry, the anger is unjustified right? Blacks are over reacting. At what points are blacks allowed to be angry foxhound?
Lets not forget slavery and how slaves were violently treated, lets not forget how blacks were met with violence while peacefully protesting for their rights back in the day. Lets not forget the violence suffered by blacks by kkk. Lets not forget the repression suffered by blacks. Blacks were brought over and forged in violence and misery. And i dont give a flying **** if it was in the past it still effects people today.
White's are killed by blacks every day. Hispanics are killed by blacks, vice versa, whites kill hispanics. Police corruption is naturally going to occur at every level.
So you should mindlessly start lashing out at everything around you, are you 5 years old?
Slavery happened a long time ago, maybe you should apologize to the indians that we massacred for the land that you're able to "protest" on.
I'm Jewish and had relatives die in the holocaust, should I go to germany and start throwing shit all over?
Use your head. Nobody here is excusing corruption and saying it's ok, and that you don't have a right to be angry. That video of that cop planting the taser, I hope that officer gets the chair. It's not an excuse to act like a dumb animal and destroy everything around you. Be an adult, because life isn't fair. Instead of having 3-4 victims you mentioned, you just made everybody that lives in that city a victim and have made things 100 times worse for yourself and everybody around you.
lol at trying to explain something to white folks.
lol @ everybody that thinks only blacks have had bad shit and continues to have negative things happen to blacks. Every race has gone through shit. Hitler tried killing off my whole race.
Yes, there are racial problems in this country. Throwing a temper tantrum like a 5 year old and destroying YOUR OWN STUFF doesn't fix anything. MLK is rolling over in his grave tonight I swear.
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