Subsidized education and welfare are two distinctively different entities. Education the recipient has to show a desire to further their education and better themselves. If they fail in their classes they will no longer receive assistance. Welfare the recipient has few requirements. This make sit possible to be exploited by lazy and unwilling people. Exploiters are not the rule, however, they are the exception.MafireeWelfare needs to be fixed, welfare to work programs are a nice start.
Sarah Palin Speaking at Tea Party Convention
This topic is locked from further discussion.
How is refusing to help someone punishing them?So refusing to aid those in need forcing them to work dead end jobs below the poverty line forever isnt punishment? Looking down on them like they are scum of the earth isnt punishment? But taking a small amount of money from a rich person to aid them some how is? Really? I'm not forcing them to work any job. They could do what is needed to advance or get a new job. I am sure they have the skill and desire to achieve their goals. They just have to believe in themselves and know they are able to succeed without feeling they have to have "help" in order to do so.[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]We are not animals(In a bear sense) but humans and this not punishing you. This is using others good fortune to help others not as lucky. What you are supporting is punishing those who have a hard time in life while those like me want to help them. How is it fair a poor person should be punished for being poor?MoonMarvel
You seem to think using tax payer dollars to help those in need is wrong, and its not. The money is wasted, but it should be fixed not eliminated. And no I havent paid them back, the bad economy has really hit me hard, its almost impossible to get work here, unemployment at around 22%. Our educational system is the problem, high costs and so many not being able to get a high quality education, cutting or eliminating funds will only hurt that. And education is a requirement of a strong nation, it should be free like lots of other nations. Education free, good grades and all the perks that come with is not free, you need to earn that.MoonMarvel
Public education is free. You think it will save money if colleges were REQUIRED to educate students for free? It wouldn't. It would make them more dependant on the government rather than hard work. "Oh Jimmy you don't even have a high school diploma and you want to get into Harvard? Sure! Let Uncle Sam hook that up for you while people who worked hard to get into that prestigious school are bumped from the list." Yeah, that's really fair.
And no, I don't think helping the poor to a certain extent is bad. I think taxes that make others weak while making the unfortunate strong are unfair.
[QUOTE="taj7575"]
Yes. People want to work hard and get rewarded. But jobs are coming slow. People are stressing daily calling everyone they can to try to get a job. You really think people enjoy being on welfare, getting less money than they can pay and trying to support a family, all while looking for a job in a slow time for jobs?
airshocker
My points aren't being made to the being who are in legitimate trouble and need welfare. A lot don't, and that's where my ire is directed.
It's a slow-time for jobs because the economy is in trouble. Eventually it will even out. The economy won't be fixed by throwing even more money at it. It'll be fixed if we removes a lot of the restrictions that make it costly for businesses to operate in America.
I think you are over-exaggerating the number of people who are uh-honestly using welfare.
Also, what is costly to businesses is healthcare. If we had some reform of healthcare, that could be fixed.
How is refusing to help someone punishing them?MafireeSo refusing to aid those in need forcing them to work dead end jobs below the poverty line forever isnt punishment? Looking down on them like they are scum of the earth isnt punishment? But taking a small amount of money from a rich person to aid them some how is? Really? I'm not forcing them to work any job. They could do what is needed to advance or get a new job. I am sure they have the skill and desire to achieve their goals. They just have to believe in themselves and know they are able to succeed without feeling they have to have "help" in order to do so.Yes you are. They need a good education to advance, and that costs money they dont have..The same money you are denying them. Also they may need rental assitance to stay in a home because their job doesnt pay the bills, again money you want to deny them. So yes you are punishing them.
I think you are over-exaggerating the number of people who are uh-honestly using welfare.
Also, what is costly to businesses is healthcare. If we had some reform of healthcare, that could be fixed.
taj7575
I don't think I am, as I said from my experience I've seen many people getting welfare who don't deserve it.
I agree, healthcare reform would be a great start to make businesses more profitable. Not an 8% payroll tax(which was in the recent healthcare bill) if a small business can't provide healthcare to it's workers because it's too expensive.
[QUOTE="TyrantDragon55"]
No I'm getting offended because of that disgusting generalization you just made. What right do you have to judge anyone in that kind of position? And why is it such a big deal that you have to pay a little extra money to help out those that are less fortunate then yourself? I understand that there are a lot of people that take advantage of the system but there are just as many people who genuinely need that aid.
airshocker
Have you ever been a beat-cop in Jersey City? If not, you have NO IDEA what I've seen that makes me believe in my argument.
It's my money. Who are you to tell me what to do with it?
No but I have been in plenty of ghettos and other places like that, it's hard not to in the town I live in. You're right, it is your money and I can't tell you what to do with it. Let me put it a different way, if the welfare system was somehow fixed so that we didn't have so many people just taking advantage of it would you still have such a problem paying a little extra money to help out people who needed it?
The poor deserve it, unless they inherited it, but even then they could still rise against their social status and get a college degree and a better job. As it stands, there is plenty of financial assistance available for the poor. Forcing a rich person to give to someone poor is like reinstalling the draft in the military for a war that isn't necessary. It also makes the poor akin to leeches, who are dependent on their current status and never attempt to change because they have no reason, since the government can take care of them. That's my view of social redistribution.[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]
So refusing to aid those in need forcing them to work dead end jobs below the poverty line forever isnt punishment? Looking down on them like they are scum of the earth isnt punishment? But taking a small amount of money from a rich person to aid them some how is? Really?
Genetic_Code
I rarely debate on economic matters so forgive me if I come across as novice.
It's no problem. You are somewhat right. There are abusers out there. But the thing is, there will always be abusers out there. But these are the minority, and remember, it's not like you make much from welfare. It's just a bit to help you out until you get a job.
The rich right now don't pay outrageous numbers for taxes. It's maybe a bit more than a middle-class person. If it ever rapidly increases, then yes, they have a right to be angry.
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]You seem to think using tax payer dollars to help those in need is wrong, and its not. The money is wasted, but it should be fixed not eliminated. And no I havent paid them back, the bad economy has really hit me hard, its almost impossible to get work here, unemployment at around 22%. Our educational system is the problem, high costs and so many not being able to get a high quality education, cutting or eliminating funds will only hurt that. And education is a requirement of a strong nation, it should be free like lots of other nations. Education free, good grades and all the perks that come with is not free, you need to earn that.airshocker
Public education is free. You think it will save money if colleges were REQUIRED to educate students for free? It wouldn't. It would make them more dependant on the government rather than hard work. "Oh Jimmy you don't even have a high school diploma and you want to get into Harvard? Sure! Let Uncle Sam hook that up for you while people who worked hard to get into that prestigious school are bumped from the list." Yeah, that's really fair.
And no, I don't think helping the poor to a certain extent is bad. I think taxes that make others weak while making the unfortunate strong are unfair.
Sorry, I cant take you seriously anymore. A high school diploma is REQUIRED to get into college. And nobody is being bumped from anything, all the money does is guarantee that any school that accepts you is fully paid for. And who said it was a way to save money?No but I have been in plenty of ghettos and other places like that, it's hard not to in the town I live in. You're right, it is your money and I can't tell you what to do with it. Let me put it a different way, if the welfare system was somehow fixed so that we didn't have so many people just taking advantage of it would you still have such a problem paying a little extra money to help out people who needed it?
TyrantDragon55
No, I wouldn't have as big a problem with it. But it's not fixed and it doesn't look like it will be anytime soon.
[QUOTE="taj7575"]
I think you are over-exaggerating the number of people who are uh-honestly using welfare.
Also, what is costly to businesses is healthcare. If we had some reform of healthcare, that could be fixed.
airshocker
I don't think I am, as I said from my experience I've seen many people getting welfare who don't deserve it.
I agree, healthcare reform would be a great start to make businesses more profitable. Not an 8% payroll tax(which was in the recent healthcare bill) if a small business can't provide healthcare to it's workers because it's too expensive.
The government could fix that, for example, by making mandatory searches for jobs for people on welfare for a while, or something that follows along the line of that.
I agree though, that the Government should do a better job with supporting small businesses. Making them pay more is not a good way to start.
Sorry, I cant take you seriously anymore. A high school diploma is REQUIRED to get into college. And nobody is being bumped from anything, all the money does is guarantee that any school that accepts you is fully paid for. And who said it was a way to save money? MoonMarvel
I know it's required. But the hell with rules. We're lowering our standards enough as it is. What's wrong with breaking some more rules that try and give an incentive for our kids to get a diploma?
This is the problem with liberalism. You think we can pay for all this. You think we have an OBLIGATION to. We don't. It's the individual's job to make a life for themselves. Not the government's and certainly not other taxpayers.
The government could fix that, for example, by making mandatory searches for jobs for people on welfare for a while, or something that follows along the line of that.
I agree though, that the Government should do a better job with supporting small businesses. Making them pay more is not a good way to start.
taj7575
When they start making policy that holds individual's accountable for their actions, I will support that. Until then, I support nothing that involves giving things for free to people without any conditions what-so-ever.
[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]So refusing to aid those in need forcing them to work dead end jobs below the poverty line forever isnt punishment? Looking down on them like they are scum of the earth isnt punishment? But taking a small amount of money from a rich person to aid them some how is? Really?I'm not forcing them to work any job. They could do what is needed to advance or get a new job. I am sure they have the skill and desire to achieve their goals. They just have to believe in themselves and know they are able to succeed without feeling they have to have "help" in order to do so.Yes you are. They need a good education to advance, and that costs money they dont have..The same money you are denying them. Also they may need rental assitance to stay in a home because their job doesnt pay the bills, again money you want to deny them. So yes you are punishing them.MoonMarvel
Community college costs $20 a unit here in CA So $320 for a full load. Can look for books online and get them for around $60 each. So $300 total. Cost of education $620 (transportation not included). $1,240 a year.
Now rent, $2,000 for a 2 bedroom. Get 3 roommates. Rent will be $500 a a month. $6,000 a year.
A full time job that pays $10 an hour pays $20k a year before taxes. We will say that the government takes 20% away (most likely would be less if your an independent). So you are left with $16k.
After the costs of school and living are factored in you have over $8k to spend on food travel and entertainment.
I fail to see how I am denying anyone willing to work anything.....
[QUOTE="taj7575"]
The government could fix that, for example, by making mandatory searches for jobs for people on welfare for a while, or something that follows along the line of that.
I agree though, that the Government should do a better job with supporting small businesses. Making them pay more is not a good way to start.
airshocker
When they start making policy that holds individual's accountable for their actions, I will support that. Until then, I support nothing that involves giving things for free to people without any conditions what-so-ever.
You have tor remember, this is a very little minority. Most people on welfare are continuously looking for a job and trying to keep their payments due. It is worse for middle class families, especially the decline on monthly money from an average monthly middle class salary to a welfare sum and try to pay the same monthly costs.[QUOTE="TyrantDragon55"]
No but I have been in plenty of ghettos and other places like that, it's hard not to in the town I live in. You're right, it is your money and I can't tell you what to do with it. Let me put it a different way, if the welfare system was somehow fixed so that we didn't have so many people just taking advantage of it would you still have such a problem paying a little extra money to help out people who needed it?
airshocker
No, I wouldn't have as big a problem with it. But it's not fixed and it doesn't look like it will be anytime soon.
Ok then, in that case I appologize for my go **** yourself comment.
You have tor remember, this is a very little minority. Most people on welfare are continuously looking for a job and trying to keep their payments due. It is worse for middle class families, especially the decline on monthly money from an average monthly middle class salary to a welfare sum and try to pay the same monthly costs.taj7575
I don't have a problem with people getting the help they need. It's obvious we're in a a very bad situation. Unfortunately, a lot of these policies we see(by liberals), call for more spending on things that won't even help us. Take just a look at all the pork that was attached to the health-care reform bill, and all the sweetheart deals.
To fix this we can't be spending our money so blindly. We're fighting wars right now and we will be for quite some time. Those won't ever go away. We need to cut spending in other areas in order to combat this problem with our economy.
A great start is by reforming social security and welfare. Trying to get rid of the people that don't deserve it. Obamacare was not guranteed to make us spend less, in fact it was guaranteed to make us spend more.
Instead of making legislation to hurt small business and make larger ones outsource, we need to give them incentives to come back. Is that too much to ask for?
No, but people would rather choose the easy route of increasing taxes on the well-off instead of making any lasting and meaningful legislation.
The poor deserve it[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]
So refusing to aid those in need forcing them to work dead end jobs below the poverty line forever isnt punishment? Looking down on them like they are scum of the earth isnt punishment? But taking a small amount of money from a rich person to aid them some how is? Really?
Genetic_Code
WOW. Just WOW.
That is really all I can say. Wow. The poor deserve to suffer untill they die even if they inherited it? WOW!
She doesn't seem to be the person who wants to unite people, but to divide them instead. She only panders to those that agree with her and doesn't make much of an effort to defend conservatism or at least make it properly understood by liberals.Genetic_CodeI tend to agree. I admire Sarah Palin, and I agree with her on most broad issues, but if she's planning on running for president, she'll want to avoid the "our America vs. your America" kind of divisiveness. Criticizing the other side shows that one is well-informed and principled, but good leadership takes more than that. If all she does is rip on "elitist intellectuals", then those people will never trust her, the same way that social conservatives will never trust a president who thinks they're "bitter clingers".
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
I don't think everyones ganging up on him because he's conservative. It's because he seems to be show this idealogy that all people who need government assistance are lazy leeches who need to lie down and die because only the fittest survive. Which, I hope, is not the general mindset of most conservatives.
airshocker
My ideology* is very simple: You work hard, you get rewarded.
It's not my job to help you with my money. It's my job to protect and defend you, not pay your bills.
I could careless if you think I'm selfish. I'm not wrong.
Your ideology is severely flawed since one man can work dead end jobs 18 hours a day till the day he dies and never get "rewarded" or have his life improved, and another man can be born into wealth and never work a day in his life and reap the rewards.
Yes you are. They need a good education to advance, and that costs money they dont have..The same money you are denying them. Also they may need rental assitance to stay in a home because their job doesnt pay the bills, again money you want to deny them. So yes you are punishing them.[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="Mafiree"] I'm not forcing them to work any job. They could do what is needed to advance or get a new job. I am sure they have the skill and desire to achieve their goals. They just have to believe in themselves and know they are able to succeed without feeling they have to have "help" in order to do so.Mafiree
Community college costs $20 a unit here in CA So $320 for a full load. Can look for books online and get them for around $60 each. So $300 total. Cost of education $620 (transportation not included). $1,240 a year.
Now rent, $2,000 for a 2 bedroom. Get 3 roommates. Rent will be $500 a a month. $6,000 a year.
A full time job that pays $10 an hour pays $20k a year before taxes. We will say that the government takes 20% away (most likely would be less if your an independent). So you are left with $16k.
After the costs of school and living are factored in you have over $8k to spend on food travel and entertainment.
I fail to see how I am denying anyone willing to work anything.....
As somone who also lives in CA I can confirm what you said is a lie. BTW, try getting a BA which is required for most jobs now. BTW, 10 bucks an hour pays below 20k not at it. I also love how you ignore other needed things like lights, car insurance and gas. Nice try but no. And not everybody can get a 20k job, min wage is usually around 15 grand a year before taxes. So try again...Or better yet dont, because what you just said is very shortsighted.[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]You seem to think using tax payer dollars to help those in need is wrong, and its not. The money is wasted, but it should be fixed not eliminated. And no I havent paid them back, the bad economy has really hit me hard, its almost impossible to get work here, unemployment at around 22%. Our educational system is the problem, high costs and so many not being able to get a high quality education, cutting or eliminating funds will only hurt that. And education is a requirement of a strong nation, it should be free like lots of other nations. Education free, good grades and all the perks that come with is not free, you need to earn that.airshocker
Public education is free. You think it will save money if colleges were REQUIRED to educate students for free? It wouldn't. It would make them more dependant on the government rather than hard work. "Oh Jimmy you don't even have a high school diploma and you want to get into Harvard? Sure! Let Uncle Sam hook that up for you while people who worked hard to get into that prestigious school are bumped from the list." Yeah, that's really fair.
And no, I don't think helping the poor to a certain extent is bad. I think taxes that make others weak while making the unfortunate strong are unfair.
What in God's name are you talking about? This system makes college free provided you are accepted. Please explain why Harvard would suddenly only accept the stupidest completely unworthy kids if they were to get rid of tuition. Truly, that just makes absolutely no sense. The two things are completely unrelated.
Will there be tea and cookies?
The poor deserve it[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]
So refusing to aid those in need forcing them to work dead end jobs below the poverty line forever isnt punishment? Looking down on them like they are scum of the earth isnt punishment? But taking a small amount of money from a rich person to aid them some how is? Really?
Pixel-Pirate
WOW. Just WOW.
That is really all I can say. Wow. The poor deserve to suffer untill they die even if they inherited it? WOW!
Context! Context! Context! You failed to see the context!What in God's name are you talking about? This system makes college free provided you are accepted. Please explain why Harvard would suddenly only accept the stupidest completely unworthy kids if they were to get rid of tuition. Truly, that just makes absolutely no sense. The two things are completely unrelated.
HomicidalCherry
Really? What system would that be?
Last I checked there is no free-college system. You either get good grades in high-school and get accepted into a good school, or you go to community college until you have decent grades to get into a better college. Or you join the military and get college paid for(except books, and only up to 4500 dollars a year)while serving and then get the GI bill once you are honorably discharged.
A free college system would ensure undeserving people get into colleges. Because it would be guaranteed to be abused. There is a reason some colleges are prestigious. They reward hard-work.
Don't jump into an argument if you have no idea what we're talking about, man.
[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]Yes you are. They need a good education to advance, and that costs money they dont have..The same money you are denying them. Also they may need rental assitance to stay in a home because their job doesnt pay the bills, again money you want to deny them. So yes you are punishing them. MoonMarvel
Community college costs $20 a unit here in CA So $320 for a full load. Can look for books online and get them for around $60 each. So $300 total. Cost of education $620 (transportation not included). $1,240 a year.
Now rent, $2,000 for a 2 bedroom. Get 3 roommates. Rent will be $500 a a month. $6,000 a year.
A full time job that pays $10 an hour pays $20k a year before taxes. We will say that the government takes 20% away (most likely would be less if your an independent). So you are left with $16k.
After the costs of school and living are factored in you have over $8k to spend on food travel and entertainment.
I fail to see how I am denying anyone willing to work anything.....
As somone who also lives in CA I can confirm what you said is a lie. BTW, try getting a BA which is required for most jobs now. BTW, 10 bucks an hour pays below 20k not at it. I also love how you ignore other needed things like lights, car insurance and gas. Nice try but no. And not everybody can get a 20k job, min wage is usually around 15 grand a year before taxes. So try again...Or better yet dont, because what you just said is very shortsighted. $10 x 40 = $400 a week $400 x 50 (2 weeks vacation) = $20,000 a year Community college is the avenue in which you get your BA. You do well at a CC and transfer to a state school or even a UC where you can get a scholarship.[QUOTE="airshocker"]
You seem to think using tax payer dollars to help those in need is wrong, and its not. The money is wasted, but it should be fixed not eliminated. And no I havent paid them back, the bad economy has really hit me hard, its almost impossible to get work here, unemployment at around 22%. Our educational system is the problem, high costs and so many not being able to get a high quality education, cutting or eliminating funds will only hurt that. And education is a requirement of a strong nation, it should be free like lots of other nations. Education free, good grades and all the perks that come with is not free, you need to earn that.MoonMarvel
Public education is free. You think it will save money if colleges were REQUIRED to educate students for free? It wouldn't. It would make them more dependant on the government rather than hard work. "Oh Jimmy you don't even have a high school diploma and you want to get into Harvard? Sure! Let Uncle Sam hook that up for you while people who worked hard to get into that prestigious school are bumped from the list." Yeah, that's really fair.
And no, I don't think helping the poor to a certain extent is bad. I think taxes that make others weak while making the unfortunate strong are unfair.
What in God's name are you talking about? This system makes college free provided you are accepted. Please explain why Harvard would suddenly only accept the stupidest completely unworthy kids if they were to get rid of tuition. Truly, that just makes absolutely no sense. The two things are completely unrelated.
Took the word right outta my mouth. Good play sir. This just pays for it, it doesnt promise you get accepted.Took the word right outta my mouth. Good play sir. This just pays for it, it doesnt promise you get accepted.MoonMarvel
Yes it will, because there will always be those bad apples that slip through the cracks. Happens in social security, it will happen if college is completely paid for.
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="Mafiree"]As somone who also lives in CA I can confirm what you said is a lie. BTW, try getting a BA which is required for most jobs now. BTW, 10 bucks an hour pays below 20k not at it. I also love how you ignore other needed things like lights, car insurance and gas. Nice try but no. And not everybody can get a 20k job, min wage is usually around 15 grand a year before taxes. So try again...Or better yet dont, because what you just said is very shortsighted. $10 x 40 = $400 a week $400 x 50 (2 weeks vacation) = $20,000 a year Community college is the avenue in which you get your BA. You do well at a CC and transfer to a state school or even a UC where you can get a scholarship.WUT? Your math is off. That is 1600 a month, which is 19,200 a year. With paid vaction. And you can go straight for your BA, an associates is not needed. And a lot of scholarships are from the government, not all but they are provided. But you need a excellent GPA. So, you are still wrong.Community college costs $20 a unit here in CA So $320 for a full load. Can look for books online and get them for around $60 each. So $300 total. Cost of education $620 (transportation not included). $1,240 a year.
Now rent, $2,000 for a 2 bedroom. Get 3 roommates. Rent will be $500 a a month. $6,000 a year.
A full time job that pays $10 an hour pays $20k a year before taxes. We will say that the government takes 20% away (most likely would be less if your an independent). So you are left with $16k.
After the costs of school and living are factored in you have over $8k to spend on food travel and entertainment.
I fail to see how I am denying anyone willing to work anything.....
Mafiree
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"] The poor deserve it
battlefront23
WOW. Just WOW.
That is really all I can say. Wow. The poor deserve to suffer untill they die even if they inherited it? WOW!
Context! Context! Context! You failed to see the context!And what is that context, since I fail to see it? Even if I include that entire post, it still comes across pretty horrible. And mildly naive with the diea that the poor making 15k a year can rise to riches just by a little hardwork.
[QUOTE="airshocker"]
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
I don't think everyones ganging up on him because he's conservative. It's because he seems to be show this idealogy that all people who need government assistance are lazy leeches who need to lie down and die because only the fittest survive. Which, I hope, is not the general mindset of most conservatives.
Pixel-Pirate
My ideology* is very simple: You work hard, you get rewarded.
It's not my job to help you with my money. It's my job to protect and defend you, not pay your bills.
I could careless if you think I'm selfish. I'm not wrong.
Your ideology is severely flawed since one man can work dead end jobs 18 hours a day till the day he dies and never get "rewarded" or have his life improved, and another man can be born into wealth and never work a day in his life and reap the rewards.
And i know a TON of people who had lived their childhood life poor as anything (they tell me storys how some mornings their dads car was gone in the morning because they didnt have money to pay off) and they went through school trying hard and became very successful; becoming nurses and such. And i also know some people that were born into wealth and they get spoiled and end up having problems and they get used to getting fed and they dont work and now they are poor now. So it all comes around to life choices.. you can change your life if you work hard. I am not paying a penny for someone to sit around all day while i am working hard.[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]Took the word right outta my mouth. Good play sir. This just pays for it, it doesnt promise you get accepted.airshocker
Yes it will, because there will always be those bad apples that slip through the cracks. Happens in social security, it will happen if college is completely paid for.
SS is for people who have retired after paying into it. And it promises you nothing, you still need to get it. Seriously, stop.[QUOTE="taj7575"]You have tor remember, this is a very little minority. Most people on welfare are continuously looking for a job and trying to keep their payments due. It is worse for middle class families, especially the decline on monthly money from an average monthly middle class salary to a welfare sum and try to pay the same monthly costs.airshocker
I don't have a problem with people getting the help they need. It's obvious we're in a a very bad situation. Unfortunately, a lot of these policies we see(by liberals), call for more spending on things that won't even help us. Take just a look at all the pork that was attached to the health-care reform bill, and all the sweetheart deals.
To fix this we can't be spending our money so blindly. We're fighting wars right now and we will be for quite some time. Those won't ever go away. We need to cut spending in other areas in order to combat this problem with our economy.
A great start is by reforming social security and welfare. Trying to get rid of the people that don't deserve it. Obamacare was not guranteed to make us spend less, in fact it was guaranteed to make us spend more.
Instead of making legislation to hurt small business and make larger ones outsource, we need to give them incentives to come back. Is that too much to ask for?
No, but people would rather choose the easy route of increasing taxes on the well-off instead of making any lasting and meaningful legislation.
We need to reform healthcare first. For the amount we spend on health care, we don't get enough results.
$10 x 40 = $400 a week $400 x 50 (2 weeks vacation) = $20,000 a year Community college is the avenue in which you get your BA. You do well at a CC and transfer to a state school or even a UC where you can get a scholarship.WUT? Your math is off. That is 1600 a month, which is 19,200 a year. With paid vaction. And you can go straight for your BA, an associates is not needed. And a lot of scholarships are from the government, not all but they are provided. But you need a excellent GPA. So, you are still wrong. There are more than 28 a days in 11 months(all of them in a leap year).....so, my math is correct actually. The avenue I presented is a more general one. It is more difficult to go to a 4 year if you are not doing so straight from high school. The path I listed was a more encompassing one because it accounts for anyone who chooses to further tehir education.[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]As somone who also lives in CA I can confirm what you said is a lie. BTW, try getting a BA which is required for most jobs now. BTW, 10 bucks an hour pays below 20k not at it. I also love how you ignore other needed things like lights, car insurance and gas. Nice try but no. And not everybody can get a 20k job, min wage is usually around 15 grand a year before taxes. So try again...Or better yet dont, because what you just said is very shortsighted.MoonMarvel
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"][QUOTE="airshocker"]
My ideology* is very simple: You work hard, you get rewarded.
It's not my job to help you with my money. It's my job to protect and defend you, not pay your bills.
I could careless if you think I'm selfish. I'm not wrong.
Jakesta7
Your ideology is severely flawed since one man can work dead end jobs 18 hours a day till the day he dies and never get "rewarded" or have his life improved, and another man can be born into wealth and never work a day in his life and reap the rewards.
And i know a TON of people who had lived their childhood life poor as anything (they tell me storys how some mornings their dads car was gone in the morning because they didnt have money to pay off) and they went through school trying hard and became very successful; becoming nurses and such. And i also know some people that were born into wealth and they get spoiled and end up having problems and they get used to getting fed and they dont work and now they are poor now. So it all comes around to life choices.. you can change your life if you work hard. I am not paying a penny for someone to sit around all day while i am working hard. My mom succeeded from hardship. Upon "succeeding" she was "rewarded" with half her income being taken away by the government (carter era) while living a one bedroom apartment.$10 x 40 = $400 a week $400 x 50 (2 weeks vacation) = $20,000 a year Community college is the avenue in which you get your BA. You do well at a CC and transfer to a state school or even a UC where you can get a scholarship.MafireeWUT? Your math is off. That is 1600 a month, which is 19,200 a year. With paid vaction. And you can go straight for your BA, an associates is not needed. And a lot of scholarships are from the government, not all but they are provided. But you need a excellent GPA. So, you are still wrong. There are more than 28 a days in 11 months(all of them in a leap year).....so, my math is correct actually. The avenue I presented is a more general one. It is more difficult to go to a 4 year if you are not doing so straight from high school. The path I listed was a more encompassing one because it accounts for anyone who chooses to further tehir education.No, your math is way off. 400 a week is 1600 a month, that is 19,200 a year. So no, you are wrong. And you still dont account for countless things that I listed. So again, no.
Your ideology is severely flawed since one man can work dead end jobs 18 hours a day till the day he dies and never get "rewarded" or have his life improved, and another man can be born into wealth and never work a day in his life and reap the rewards.
Pixel-Pirate
That's funny.
It's his own fault for not improving his life. The tools are there. It's not my job to improve it for him.
I wasn't born into wealth and I've worked hard my entire life and I think my life is pretty rewarding.
You seem to think you have the right to take my money away from me. You don't.
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"][QUOTE="airshocker"]
My ideology* is very simple: You work hard, you get rewarded.
It's not my job to help you with my money. It's my job to protect and defend you, not pay your bills.
I could careless if you think I'm selfish. I'm not wrong.
Jakesta7
Your ideology is severely flawed since one man can work dead end jobs 18 hours a day till the day he dies and never get "rewarded" or have his life improved, and another man can be born into wealth and never work a day in his life and reap the rewards.
And i know a TON of people who had lived their childhood life poor as anything (they tell me storys how some mornings their dads car was gone in the morning because they didnt have money to pay off) and they went through school trying hard and became very successful; becoming nurses and such. And i also know some people that were born into wealth and they get spoiled and end up having problems and they get used to getting fed and they dont work and now they are poor now. So it all comes around to life choices.. you can change your life if you work hard. I am not paying a penny for someone to sit around all day while i am working hard.It comes down to luck. For every story of a person going from rags and riches there are 10 stories of someone born poor and dying poor no matter how hard they try to fix things, for many reasons. Maybe they are born with pre-existing medical or psychological conditions that prevent them from "rising up". Some will get that lucky break and for some that break won't come.
I feel that saying "They're just poor because they're lazy. If they were hard working they could make it!" is a fantasy world created by those looking through the glass, to soften the blow and ease any form of guilt or sadness from seeing reality.. It's alot less heartbreaking to think everyone who is dirt poor deserves it.
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
Your ideology is severely flawed since one man can work dead end jobs 18 hours a day till the day he dies and never get "rewarded" or have his life improved, and another man can be born into wealth and never work a day in his life and reap the rewards.
airshocker
That's funny.
It's his own fault for not improving his life. The tools are there. It's not my job to improve it for him.
I wasn't born into wealth and I've worked hard my entire life and I think my life is pretty rewarding.
You seem to think you have the right to take my money away from me. You don't.
In that post I never said anything about taking your money. I was just pointing out that you are wrong if you honestly believe anyone who works hard can improve their life. That isn't reality, it's a fantasy world.
SS is for people who have retired after paying into it. And it promises you nothing, you still need to get it. Seriously, stop.MoonMarvel
I meant welfare, and how naive can you possibly be?
You teach a man to fish he eats for the rest of his life. You give a man a fish he eats for a couple days. That's what it comes down. You teach someone to work hard and they'll work hard their entire life. You give them everything, you gain nothing.
[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]WUT? Your math is off. That is 1600 a month, which is 19,200 a year. With paid vaction. And you can go straight for your BA, an associates is not needed. And a lot of scholarships are from the government, not all but they are provided. But you need a excellent GPA. So, you are still wrong.There are more than 28 a days in 11 months(all of them in a leap year).....so, my math is correct actually. The avenue I presented is a more general one. It is more difficult to go to a 4 year if you are not doing so straight from high school. The path I listed was a more encompassing one because it accounts for anyone who chooses to further tehir education.No, your math is way off. 400 a week is 1600 a month, that is 19,200 a year. So no, you are wrong. And you still dont account for countless things that I listed. So again, no.MoonMarvel
???
I will go slow this time
There are 52 weeks in a year.
You get 2 weeks vacation at most jobs. So you will work a total of 50 week in a given year.
Most full-time jobs are 40 hours a week. If you are paid $10 an hour this will net you $400 per week.
We can this multiply this $400 by the number of times you will receive it during the year which is 50.
This will give a total of $20,000
I noted the $8k left over could be used for transportation (which incluides car insurance/gas). "Lights" who be better identified as "utilities" which, may or may not be included in your rent.
In that post I never said anything about taking your money. I was just pointing out that you are wrong if you honestly believe anyone who works hard can improve their life. That isn't reality, it's a fantasy world.
Pixel-Pirate
But that's what you think. You think taking other people's money will improve things. It won't. That person will become dependent on getting that money every month.
Where as if someone works hard, they will always get what they want. I see hard-working people every day make it in their lives. I also see lazy people and people who are unwilling to do hardwork do poorly. I don't know what world you're living in.
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]SS is for people who have retired after paying into it. And it promises you nothing, you still need to get it. Seriously, stop.airshocker
I meant welfare, and how naive can you possibly be?
You teach a man to fish he eats for the rest of his life. You give a man a fish he eats for a couple days. That's what it comes down. You teach someone to work hard and they'll work hard their entire life. You give them everything, you gain nothing.
And what are we giving people everything. Welfare is basically a substitute for people to pay off taxes and expenses till they can find a job. When welfare hits a family, spending goes waay down. They are just given a bit to get enough to pay until a job is received.
And what are we giving people everything. Welfare is basically a substitute for people to pay off taxes and expenses till they can find a job. When welfare hits a family, spending goes waay down. They are just given a bit to get enough to pay until a job is received.
taj7575
We've already established that welfare is needed in some cases, but that's not what we're talking about right now.
[QUOTE="Jakesta7"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]And i know a TON of people who had lived their childhood life poor as anything (they tell me storys how some mornings their dads car was gone in the morning because they didnt have money to pay off) and they went through school trying hard and became very successful; becoming nurses and such. And i also know some people that were born into wealth and they get spoiled and end up having problems and they get used to getting fed and they dont work and now they are poor now. So it all comes around to life choices.. you can change your life if you work hard. I am not paying a penny for someone to sit around all day while i am working hard. My mom succeeded from hardship. Upon "succeeding" she was "rewarded" with half her income being taken away by the government (carter era) while living a one bedroom apartment. My father succeeded from hardship, crawled his way to the top and he supported carter and didnt get half is paycheck taken from him.Your ideology is severely flawed since one man can work dead end jobs 18 hours a day till the day he dies and never get "rewarded" or have his life improved, and another man can be born into wealth and never work a day in his life and reap the rewards.
Mafiree
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
In that post I never said anything about taking your money. I was just pointing out that you are wrong if you honestly believe anyone who works hard can improve their life. That isn't reality, it's a fantasy world.
airshocker
But that's what you think. You think taking other people's money will improve things. It won't. That person will become dependent on getting that money every month.
Where as if someone works hard, they will always get what they want. I see hard-working people every day make it in their lives. I also see lazy people and people who are unwilling to do hardwork do poorly. I don't know what world you're living in.
No it doesnt. Welfare for most people unemployed is not something they can live on. Remember, welfare money is just a bit of money to pay taxes and expenses and put some food on the table.
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]
In that post I never said anything about taking your money. I was just pointing out that you are wrong if you honestly believe anyone who works hard can improve their life. That isn't reality, it's a fantasy world.
airshocker
But that's what you think. You think taking other people's money will improve things. It won't. That person will become dependent on getting that money every month.
Where as if someone works hard, they will always get what they want. I see hard-working people every day make it in their lives. I also see lazy people and people who are unwilling to do hardwork do poorly. I don't know what world you're living in.
And what of those who cannot work hard due to pre-existing conditions, or because they cannot get a degree because they cannot afford college? They cannot be taught how to fish and succeed if you won't even help them get on their feet. What do you suppose we do with them?
Hmm...I know alot of people who works 3 jobs and around 18 hours a day and cannot get what they want. How do you explain them? Or is 18 hours a day doing dead end jobs not "working hard"?
No it doesnt. Welfare for most people unemployed is not something they can live on. Remember, welfare money is just a bit of money to pay taxes and expenses and put some food on the table.
taj7575
It doesn't change the fact that people do live off of it once they do get jobs. That's abuse.
[QUOTE="taj7575"]
And what are we giving people everything. Welfare is basically a substitute for people to pay off taxes and expenses till they can find a job. When welfare hits a family, spending goes waay down. They are just given a bit to get enough to pay until a job is received.
airshocker
We've already established that welfare is needed in some cases, but that's not what we're talking about right now.
Well what is the discussion now? It seems you are still talking about welfare.
My mom succeeded from hardship. Upon "succeeding" she was "rewarded" with half her income being taken away by the government (carter era) while living a one bedroom apartment. My father succeeded from hardship, crawled his way to the top and he supported carter and didnt get half is paycheck taken from him. My parents made more than yours did then.[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="Jakesta7"]And i know a TON of people who had lived their childhood life poor as anything (they tell me storys how some mornings their dads car was gone in the morning because they didnt have money to pay off) and they went through school trying hard and became very successful; becoming nurses and such. And i also know some people that were born into wealth and they get spoiled and end up having problems and they get used to getting fed and they dont work and now they are poor now. So it all comes around to life choices.. you can change your life if you work hard. I am not paying a penny for someone to sit around all day while i am working hard.MoonMarvel
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