Senate Rejects Expanded Gun Background Checks

How do background checks affect people who buy guns privately? Fightingfan

They don't. It's unenforceable and pretty much pointless.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

this sums up my feelings for the day

 

Wasdie

He killed more with his pistol than the AR. The AR was bought legally. None of the proposed laws wuold have saved those kids. None. Absolutly none.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]Surprising, considering 90% of the country supported them. On second thought, not surprising at all. DroidPhysX

90% of people in Newtown, maybe.  90% of people in blue states, possibly.  90% of Americans.. absolutely not.  Obama pulled that one out of his @ss, as usual.  

Yeah, no.

It's a BS poll.  Talk to people around the country a bit more and you'll realize it.  1,100 people surveyed in a telephone poll?  What a friggin' joke.  Even you must know it's crap.  

I love all the crybaby bleeding heart liberals in this thread.  It's very satisfying to see your delusions about "what most Americans want" smashed.  :lol:

I love all the crybaby bleeding heart liberals in this thread.  It's very satisfying to see your delusions about "what most Americans want" smashed.  :lol:

hartsickdiscipl

Same old senate. If the senate can't even pass something this benign it doesn't look very good for immigration reform. It's pretty sad that the only thing congress really gets done these days is creating contrived budget crises. -Sun_Tzu-

I agree that the Senate is pretty impotent.  However, this was just an example of a bunch of bad, worthless ideas getting shut down.  

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

What I don't understand is the disconnect between the popularity of significant background checks, which seems to be high, and the number of Senators supporting it, which is barely a majority.

It suggests to me that Senators aren't properly representing their substituents.

Aljosa23

No, it's not.  It's because the public by and large has no clue what the current state of affairs is when it comes to background checks.  I live in Texas, and I had to go through a background check to buy a basic home defense pistol at a gun show.  The Senators that voted this down knew that the new propositions were damn near worthless and would do next to nothing to help the perceived "problem."  

I can't imagine the pain the families are going through, and I wouldn't want my child (when or if I have one) go through that experience or worse, get killed.

That said, I don't support it and still won't not because I like them but because it's pointless and a kneejerk reaction to a problem that has been exaggerated. Yes we do have a gun crime problem but it's not entirely because of assault weapons. Handguns make up for the majority of gun crimes in the United States and even then, some states with restrictions and tough regulations still have a significant amount of gun crime.

Many factors come into play regarding how well a society does and because we are a large country, I firmly believe that gun rights should remain a state issue instead of becoming a major federal issue, and that we should explore options to improve the welfare of our country such as improving and reforming our education system.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

this sums up my feelings for the day

 

Wasdie

He killed more with his pistol than the AR. The AR was bought legally, so was the pistol. None of the proposed laws would have saved those kids. None. Absolutly none.

Unless you want to flat out ban all guns, all of these feel good laws will not stop these kind of things. We need to focus on identifying those who are unstable and having ways of dealing with their issues before they ever snap.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

this sums up my feelings for the day

 

Serraph105

He killed more with his pistol than the AR. The AR was bought legally, so was the pistol. None of the proposed laws would have saved those kids. None. Absolutly none.

Unless you want to flat out ban all guns, all of these feel good laws will not stop these kind of things. We need to focus on identifying those who are unstable and having ways of dealing with their issues before they ever snap.

I'd rather have logic than emotion. I'd rather have real solutions instead of knee-jerk reactions. It's like giving a fat kid some cake and he feels good but that's it. It's gone and it's pointless. The same with this bill.

if your children get murdered in school don't count on the pro-life party to sympathize with you. They will look at you and say that they want more guns to be available.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

He killed more with his pistol than the AR. The AR was bought legally, so was the pistol. None of the proposed laws would have saved those kids. None. Absolutly none.

Unless you want to flat out ban all guns, all of these feel good laws will not stop these kind of things. We need to focus on identifying those who are unstable and having ways of dealing with their issues before they ever snap.

leviathan91

I'd rather have logic than emotion. I'd rather have real solutions instead of knee-jerk reactions. It's like giving a fat kid some cake and he feels good but that's it. It's gone and it's pointless. The same with this bill.

which you won't get from either party, but one of them tries.

doesn't change the fact that republicans will bring nothing to the table when it comes to gun debate, and apparently don't give a sh!t how many children are murdered. They remain the party of no, even when horrifying things happen. I honestly wish they had to look at every one of those parents in the eyes when they cast their vote.Serraph105

And what would that gain us? Passing laws that don't actually address the problem?

What we need, as I said earlier, is a better system for detecting those who need help. We're alright with letting crazy people ruin their lives as long as they don't hurt others. That's what's messed up about this all.

None of the mass shootings of late have been committed by a criminal thus none of the proposed legislation would have stopped it. There is no logic here. Passing a law that does absolutly nothing to address the problem just becuase somebody lost a loved one isn't going to make the situation better. That is not how you make laws.

doesn't change the fact that republicans will bring nothing to the table when it comes to gun debate, and apparently don't give a sh!t how many children are murdered. They remain the party of no, even when horrifying things happen. I honestly wish they had to look at every one of those parents in the eyes when they cast their vote.Serraph105

Let me get this straight.  Even though you can't argue againt his statement that none of the measures voted down today would have saved those children, you still think they should have been passed?  You want more restrictions on guns, and you don't care what they are.  How logical.  :roll:  This is exactly the type of emotional decision-making that we need to avoid.  Barack Obama's reaction to the vote showed that he is doing nothing but pulling political stunts.  He was more visibly downtrodden about the failure of these worthless measures that he was about the Boston explosions.    

It's better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing, especially when it comes to passing laws that affect millions of people.  

if your children get murdered in school don't count on the pro-life party to sympathize with you. They will look at you and say that they want more guns to be available.

Serraph105

Yeah becuase passing a law that would do absolutly nothing to stop a law abiding citzen from shooting up a school is really addressing the issue.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"] doesn't change the fact that republicans will bring nothing to the table when it comes to gun debate, and apparently don't give a sh!t how many children are murdered. They remain the party of no, even when horrifying things happen. I honestly wish they had to look at every one of those parents in the eyes when they cast their vote.Serraph105

I'd rather have logic than emotion. I'd rather have real solutions instead of knee-jerk reactions. It's like giving a fat kid some cake and he feels good but that's it. It's gone and it's pointless. The same with this bill.

which you won't get from either party, but one of them tries.

There is no law that can fix what causes things like the Sandy Hook shooting.  We need to stop looking to government for answers.  Our culture has gone down the drain for a number of reasons.  This is what breeds psycho shooters.  

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]doesn't change the fact that republicans will bring nothing to the table when it comes to gun debate, and apparently don't give a sh!t how many children are murdered. They remain the party of no, even when horrifying things happen. I honestly wish they had to look at every one of those parents in the eyes when they cast their vote.Wasdie

And what would that gain us? Passing laws that don't actually address the problem?

What we need, as I said earlier, is a better system for detecting those who need help. We're alright with letting crazy people ruin their lives as long as they don't hurt others. That's what's messed up about this all.

None of the mass shootings of late have been committed by a criminal thus none of the proposed legislation would have stopped it. There is no logic here. Passing a law that does absolutly nothing to address the problem just becuase somebody lost a loved one isn't going to make the situation better. That is not how you make laws.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]doesn't change the fact that republicans will bring nothing to the table when it comes to gun debate, and apparently don't give a sh!t how many children are murdered. They remain the party of no, even when horrifying things happen. I honestly wish they had to look at every one of those parents in the eyes when they cast their vote.Serraph105

And what would that gain us? Passing laws that don't actually address the problem?

What we need, as I said earlier, is a better system for detecting those who need help. We're alright with letting crazy people ruin their lives as long as they don't hurt others. That's what's messed up about this all.

None of the mass shootings of late have been committed by a criminal thus none of the proposed legislation would have stopped it. There is no logic here. Passing a law that does absolutly nothing to address the problem just becuase somebody lost a loved one isn't going to make the situation better. That is not how you make laws.

There is no "solution" to be found in passing federal laws.  

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

if your children get murdered in school don't count on the pro-life party to sympathize with you. They will look at you and say that they want more guns to be available.

Wasdie

Yeah because passing a law that would do absolutely nothing to stop a law abiding citzen from shooting up a school is really addressing the issue.

I'll await the republican led solution then.Serraph105

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]I'll await the republican led solution then.Wasdie

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

This is good news for those who care about individual rights and care about the constitution.Laihendi

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]I'll await the republican led solution then.Kamekazi_69

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

VERY well said.  

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]I'll await the republican led solution then.Wasdie

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

if you compare our gun death ratio to other countries I have to believe that you are wrong.

and we just voted to not even take a vote on the biggest push in over two decades. Would we solve Sandy Hook? Perhaps not, but saving lives is the bottom line.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]I'll await the republican led solution then.Wasdie

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

Actually school shootings have always been a part of American history. Here's a link from Wikipedia. I guess as our country grew and public schools became the norm, school shootings have also risen.

Also, this isn't just an American problem. School shootings and rampage killings have happened around the world with some worse than American school shootings.

we have won, the Consitution has prevail. now all the senators who voted yes wont have jobs in 2014

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]I'll await the republican led solution then.Serraph105

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

if you compare our gun death ratio to other countries I have to believe that you are wrong.

and we just voted to not even take a vote on the biggest push in over two decades. Would we solve Sandy Hook? Perhaps not, but saving lives is the bottom line.

Allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns reduces violent crime. Also, the idea that you would save lives by passing laws that you admit would not solve the problems that you are trying to address is just absurd and contradictory.

I can understand why people would be for less gun control, but why against background checks?  Seriuosly, all it does it a better job of ensuring dangerous individuals don't get their hands on guns.

The background check measure commanded a majority of senators, 54-46, but that was well short of the 60 votes needed to advance. Forty-one Republicans and five Democrats sided together to scuttle the plan.

The-Apostle

F*ck the fillibuster.  Seriously.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]I'll await the republican led solution then.Kamekazi_69

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

There's your problem. There is no solution. 

It's just not that easy. I wish it could be. I wish there was some magic legislation we can pass and make the problem go away. We just can't do that.

What we need is a serious change in our society. School shootings and the like are a very recent occurance despite now 200 years of legal gun ownerships. Sur one would happen from time to time in the past, but now they happen way too often. Something has changed.

Laihendi

if you compare our gun death ratio to other countries I have to believe that you are wrong.

and we just voted to not even take a vote on the biggest push in over two decades. Would we solve Sandy Hook? Perhaps not, but saving lives is the bottom line.

Allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns reduces violent crime. Also, the idea that you would save lives by passing laws that you admit would not solve the problems that you are trying to address is just absurd and contradictory.

here's another point I would like you to consider, If I ever had a loved one get murdered due to getting shot with a gun I could never turn to the side you seem to love so much, and expect any sympathy. For all the moral grandstanding of the GOP, all the Christian rhetoric, all bullshit family oriented party crap that they spew, I could go speak to them, show them pictures of the people that I'd lost, and none of it would matter.

After this there is no way I could ever possibly believe that they would do the right thing, and try to keep this from happening to other people. After today the only thing I could ever expect from the GOP is to make an effort to keep me from getting any sort of justice.

Will this vote cost any of these senators their seat? Talking about those senators who voted against the bill. So how is that 90% working for ya? Can't say they aren't properly representing their own particular constituents if they don't lose their seat. Even 4 red state democrats know this to be true.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

if you compare our gun death ratio to other countries I have to believe that you are wrong.

 

and we just voted to not even take a vote on the biggest push in over two decades. Would we solve Sandy Hook? Perhaps not, but saving lives is the bottom line.

Serraph105

Allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns reduces violent crime. Also, the idea that you would save lives by passing laws that you admit would not solve the problems that you are trying to address is just absurd and contradictory.

here's another point I would like you to consider, If I ever had a loved one get murdered due to getting shot with a gun I could never turn to the side you seem to love so much, and expect any sympathy. For all the moral grandstanding of the GOP, all the Christian rhetoric, all bullshit family oriented party crap that they spew, I could go speak to them, show them pictures of the people that I'd lost, and none of it would matter.

After this there is no way I could ever possibly believe that they would do the right thing, and try to keep this from happening to other people. After today the only thing I could ever expect from the GOP is to make an effort to keep me from getting any sort of justice.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Of course gun crime will be higher in a country where guns are allowed, but that is not important. What is important is the overall violent crime rate, which is substantially lower in the US than in socialist states with extreme gun control laws in place.

 

Allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns reduces violent crime. Also, the idea that you would save lives by passing laws that you admit would not solve the problems that you are trying to address is just absurd and contradictory.

MakeMeaSammitch

here's another point I would like you to consider, If I ever had a loved one get murdered due to getting shot with a gun I could never turn to the side you seem to love so much, and expect any sympathy. For all the moral grandstanding of the GOP, all the Christian rhetoric, all bullshit family oriented party crap that they spew, I could go speak to them, show them pictures of the people that I'd lost, and none of it would matter.

After this there is no way I could ever possibly believe that they would do the right thing, and try to keep this from happening to other people. After today the only thing I could ever expect from the GOP is to make an effort to keep me from getting any sort of justice.

People can say what they want, but in my eyes you can't be a part of a group who watches a massacre like the one in Newtown, stops even a vote from happening, and still expect votes from anyone. You didn't just do nothing in the wake of a tragedy you actively kept other people from doing anything.

countered by how 3/4 of gun deaths are from legally owned guns.

MakeMeaSammitch

Sure, if you include suicides. 

I guess it's ok for somebody to be suicidal as long as they don't have a gun. Right?

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

if you compare our gun death ratio to other countries I have to believe that you are wrong.

 

and we just voted to not even take a vote on the biggest push in over two decades. Would we solve Sandy Hook? Perhaps not, but saving lives is the bottom line.

Serraph105

Allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns reduces violent crime. Also, the idea that you would save lives by passing laws that you admit would not solve the problems that you are trying to address is just absurd and contradictory.

here's another point I would like you to consider, If I ever had a loved one get murdered due to getting shot with a gun I could never turn to the side you seem to love so much, and expect any sympathy. For all the moral grandstanding of the GOP, all the Christian rhetoric, all bullshit family oriented party crap that they spew, I could go speak to them, show them pictures of the people that I'd lost, and none of it would matter.

After this there is no way I could ever possibly believe that they would do the right thing, and try to keep this from happening to other people. After today the only thing I could ever expect from the GOP is to make an effort to keep me from getting any sort of justice.

Surprising, considering 90% of the country supported them. On second thought, not surprising at all. Maniacc1

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Of course gun crime will be higher in a country where guns are allowed, but that is not important. What is important is the overall violent crime rate, which is substantially lower in the US than in socialist states with extreme gun control laws in place.

 

Allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns reduces violent crime. Also, the idea that you would save lives by passing laws that you admit would not solve the problems that you are trying to address is just absurd and contradictory.

Laihendi

here's another point I would like you to consider, If I ever had a loved one get murdered due to getting shot with a gun I could never turn to the side you seem to love so much, and expect any sympathy. For all the moral grandstanding of the GOP, all the Christian rhetoric, all bullshit family oriented party crap that they spew, I could go speak to them, show them pictures of the people that I'd lost, and none of it would matter.

After this there is no way I could ever possibly believe that they would do the right thing, and try to keep this from happening to other people. After today the only thing I could ever expect from the GOP is to make an effort to keep me from getting any sort of justice.

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]Surprising, considering 90% of the country supported them. On second thought, not surprising at all. ferrari2001

CBS/New York Times poll.

So yeah... "netural sources" :roll:

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"][QUOTE="Maniacc1"]Surprising, considering 90% of the country supported them. On second thought, not surprising at all. Wasdie

CBS/New York Times poll.

So yeah... "netural sources" :roll:

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"] Where does that 90% number come from. I know Obama keeps citing it but I haven't actually seen that poll or study? ferrari2001

CBS/New York Times poll.

So yeah... "netural sources" :roll:

Gallup has a history of just following a media fad as well. 

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Does it? Compare the gun ownership to other countries....I'd say the US would qualify as wide spread gun ownership. Not look at the gun crime in the US. Is it reduced compared to other countries?Wasdie

Might want to include the little factor that we have more urban centers than all of the countries usually compared to the US. Those skew all of the results. Gang violence and whatnot counts for a massive chunk of gun violence. 

It's really hard to compare a nation like the US to any other nation in the world. It's just radically different in so many areas. 

Generally speaking countries with less guns have less gun crime, which is just logical if you think about it. Do a total removal of guns and you should see less gun crime. 

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Serraph105"]

here's another point I would like you to consider, If I ever had a loved one get murdered due to getting shot with a gun I could never turn to the side you seem to love so much, and expect any sympathy. For all the moral grandstanding of the GOP, all the Christian rhetoric, all bullshit family oriented party crap that they spew, I could go speak to them, show them pictures of the people that I'd lost, and none of it would matter.

After this there is no way I could ever possibly believe that they would do the right thing, and try to keep this from happening to other people. After today the only thing I could ever expect from the GOP is to make an effort to keep me from getting any sort of justice.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Does it? Compare the gun ownership to other countries....I'd say the US would qualify as wide spread gun ownership. Not look at the gun crime in the US. Is it reduced compared to other countries?LJS9502_basic

Might want to include the little factor that we have more urban centers than all of the countries usually compared to the US. Those skew all of the results. Gang violence and whatnot counts for a massive chunk of gun violence. 

It's really hard to compare a nation like the US to any other nation in the world. It's just radically different in so many areas. 

Generally speaking countries with less guns have less gun crime, which is just logical if you think about it. Do a total removal of guns and you should see less gun crime. 

Umm ok? Not like you're using correlations which I JUST said it should be logical that a country with more guns will have more gun violence. I guess guns cause crime then?

Thank goodness. A federal ban on high capacity magazines and "assault weapons" would blow. Thankfully some senators still have sense.

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

CBS/New York Times poll.

So yeah... "netural sources" :roll:

Wasdie

Gallup has a history of just following a media fad as well. 

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Might want to include the little factor that we have more urban centers than all of the countries usually compared to the US. Those skew all of the results. Gang violence and whatnot counts for a massive chunk of gun violence. 

It's really hard to compare a nation like the US to any other nation in the world. It's just radically different in so many areas. 

Generally speaking countries with less guns have less gun crime, which is just logical if you think about it. Do a total removal of guns and you should see less gun crime. 

Wasdie

Umm ok? Not like you're using correlations which I JUST said it should be logical that a country with more guns will have more gun violence. I guess guns cause crime then?

here's another point I would like you to consider, If I ever had a loved one get murdered due to getting shot with a gun I could never turn to the side you seem to love so much, and expect any sympathy. For all the moral grandstanding of the GOP, all the Christian rhetoric, all bullshit family oriented party crap that they spew, I could go speak to them, show them pictures of the people that I'd lost, and none of it would matter.

After this there is no way I could ever possibly believe that they would do the right thing, and try to keep this from happening to other people. After today the only thing I could ever expect from the GOP is to make an effort to keep me from getting any sort of justice.

Serraph105

You aren't doing the right thing, though. You are punishing the majority for the crimes of the few. How you see this as being OK is beyond me.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Does it? Compare the gun ownership to other countries....I'd say the US would qualify as wide spread gun ownership. Not look at the gun crime in the US. Is it reduced compared to other countries?LJS9502_basic