Shootings erupt in ferguson.

White privelge, #blacklivesmatter, all this bullshit needs to go away and deal with people are acting like animals out there.

You can deal with criminals without resorting to the abandonment of #Blacklivesmatter or the 'White privilege' issue. Also, there may have been a lot of people there, but that still doesn't tell you how many were involved, or who was involved.

Huh? Calling out people for their blatant stupidity is now insensitive?

The concept is very simple: If one does not want to be treated like a jackass, don't act like a jackass.

Don't try and talk sense to these guys they are blinded by their statistics and graphs of crime rates, and refuse to see that its not as black and white as they make out (excuse the pun), thanks for trying though. **** em their views help nothing and just add to the problem.

lol. what a shocker. the standard answer of black mob violence and crime is white peoples fault.

i'm sorry but that is the line i bought for a very long time and it no longer makes any sense.

look man i'm done. there is nothing left in the tank. i'm not having a moment of silence for an asshole like mike brown who was such a great citizen that his final act in life was to strangle a 100 pound immigrant then pick a fight with a cop.

blm is a joke because it asks me to give a shit about a few people while ignoring thousands of others that have no political benefit to the movement.

dillian harris was the baby run over during the drive by on capo a few weeks ago.

where was his candlelight vigil? where was the community outrage? what did black leaders have to say about it? why didn't the cvs get burned down for this kid?

the collective answer to that is nothing. blm organizers had dick to say about it because that particular black life has zero value to them. just like the thousands of other black lives that are ended in violence that do not forward their cause.

dillian harris was a black life that for once you could actually say he didn't do anything and was a good boy and it be the truth and not one person said it.

his mother initially declined to be interviewed by the news because she feared retaliation from the community if she said anything about his murder. lets think about that for a second.

a mother... would not talk... about her slain child.... out of fear of retaliation from the community.

i'm sorry that the bleeding heart liberal that i used to be is gone but make no mistake about it, he is gone and all that is left is the realist that can no longer be silent for fear of the names he will be called or the people he might offend.

at the point we find ourselves not speaking about the massive hypocrisy of blm is the most harmful and racist thing i can think of.

@Riverwolf007 said:

@battlefront23 said:

@Chrypt22: @Riverwolf007:

I think we need to look to the past though to understand the present. On a systemic whole, these communities, eerily overnight in a lot of cases, had major influential figures disappear. In that vacuum of a lack of leadership and direction, the crime element dominated.

I will never excuse criminal activity. That is not what my post was meant to convey. All I intended to convey was that having such harsh comments about an ENTIRE community based on the actions of a few of the members who got press coverage is hardly fair. Cynically denouncing the actions of a few and casting blame on the whole is conducive to nothing but a continued alienation and separation from the marginalized group. We may disagree on the level of marginalization, but at the end of the day, a lot of what you said yourself was culture HIGHLY influenced by a then (and still) primarily white government.

lol. what a shocker. the standard answer of black mob violence and crime is white peoples fault.

i'm sorry but that is the line i bought for a very long time and it no longer makes any sense.

look man i'm done. there is nothing left in the tank. i'm not having a moment of silence for an asshole like mike brown who was such a great citizen that his final act in life was to strangle a 100 pound immigrant then pick a fight with a cop.

blm is a joke because it asks me to give a shit about a few people while ignoring thousands of others that have no political benefit to the movement.

dillian harris was the baby run over during the drive by on capo a few weeks ago.

where was his candlelight vigil? where was the community outrage? what did black leaders have to say about it? why didn't the cvs get burned down for this kid?

the collective answer to that is nothing. blm organizers had dick to say about it because that particular black life has zero value to them. just like the thousands of other black lives that do not forward their cause.

dillian harris was a black life that for once you could actually say he didn't do anything and was a good boy and it be the truth and not one person said it.

his mother initially declined to be interviewed by the news because she feared retaliation from the community if she said anything about his murder. lets think about that for a second.

a mother... would not talk... about her slain child.... out of fear of retaliation from the community.

i'm sorry that the bleeding heart liberal that i used to be is gone but make no mistake about it, he is gone and all that is left is the realist that can no longer be silent for fear of the names he will be called or the people he might offend.

at the point we find ourselves not speaking about the massive hypocrisy of blm is the most harmful and racist thing i can think of.

Ok you have a good point, still no reason to label a whole community because of some bad apples, and also the mother in question was scared of community back lash can you blame her, who would help her after she tells her story, the criminal element is far reaching which goes back to battlefront23s' point, you cannot just dismiss that like past actions do not affect the future, theres is a phrase for that its called "white denial". the failure to consider and empathize with another races struggle.

@ariabed: obviously statistics are racist. here is a shot of a pie chart going to a klan meeting.

@ariabed said:@Riverwolf007 said: @battlefront23 said: @Chrypt22: @Riverwolf007:

I think we need to look to the past though to understand the present. On a systemic whole, these communities, eerily overnight in a lot of cases, had major influential figures disappear. In that vacuum of a lack of leadership and direction, the crime element dominated.

I will never excuse criminal activity. That is not what my post was meant to convey. All I intended to convey was that having such harsh comments about an ENTIRE community based on the actions of a few of the members who got press coverage is hardly fair. Cynically denouncing the actions of a few and casting blame on the whole is conducive to nothing but a continued alienation and separation from the marginalized group. We may disagree on the level of marginalization, but at the end of the day, a lot of what you said yourself was culture HIGHLY influenced by a then (and still) primarily white government.

lol. what a shocker. the standard answer of black mob violence and crime is white peoples fault.

i'm sorry but that is the line i bought for a very long time and it no longer makes any sense.

look man i'm done. there is nothing left in the tank. i'm not having a moment of silence for an asshole like mike brown who was such a great citizen that his final act in life was to strangle a 100 pound immigrant then pick a fight with a cop.

blm is a joke because it asks me to give a shit about a few people while ignoring thousands of others that have no political benefit to the movement.

dillian harris was the baby run over during the drive by on capo a few weeks ago.

where was his candlelight vigil? where was the community outrage? what did black leaders have to say about it? why didn't the cvs get burned down for this kid?

the collective answer to that is nothing. blm organizers had dick to say about it because that particular black life has zero value to them. just like the thousands of other black lives that do not forward their cause.

dillian harris was a black life that for once you could actually say he didn't do anything and was a good boy and it be the truth and not one person said it.

his mother initially declined to be interviewed by the news because she feared retaliation from the community if she said anything about his murder. lets think about that for a second.

a mother... would not talk... about her slain child.... out of fear of retaliation from the community.

i'm sorry that the bleeding heart liberal that i used to be is gone but make no mistake about it, he is gone and all that is left is the realist that can no longer be silent for fear of the names he will be called or the people he might offend.

at the point we find ourselves not speaking about the massive hypocrisy of blm is the most harmful and racist thing i can think of.

Ok you have a good point, still no reason to label a whole community because of some bad apples, and also the mother in question was scared of community back lash can you blame her, who would help her after she tells her story, the criminal element is far reaching which goes back to battlefront23s' point, you cannot just dismiss that like past actions do not affect the future, theres is a phrase for that its called "white denial". the failure to consider and empathize with another races struggle.

all i have ever had up until a very short while ago is empathy and sympathy.

it has gotten none of us anywhere.

what did 50 years to civil rights advocacy get bernie sanders? being torpedoed at his presidential run.

what did wal-mart refusing to carry the confederarte flag in their stores get them? mob attacks a couple of days later.

it seems like almost every time someone goes out of their way they get fucked over for the effort.

as shitty as it is to say the time for empathy and sympathy is just about over.

it's time for some unflinching honesty and tough love.

a fucking men.

@Motokid6:

Again, feeling more discouraged.

Have blame go where it should go; to the crime element fostered by the American government and by those within the community who feed into it AND lead others down this same path.

If the roles were reversed, imagine how you would feel?

Supposing you were black but against the extremism of BLM: you are now ostracized by the BLM and by similarly minded white folk saying what you are saying.

Supposing you were black but on the fence about BLM: you are ostracized in the exact same manner.

And supposing you were in favor of BLM: you are no adamantly condemned by white folk for people in your organization, and drawing frustration from people within your race not wanting to "upset the established order."

Seeing things, literally, as so black and white is the entire problem. BLM is too extreme in the way they want black people to be protected by the police, but your volatile comments are just returning fire with fire.

"An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind." - Gandhi

Don't you mean "straw-fucking-men"

Also, an 'appeal to hypocrisy' is never valid...like, ever.

@battlefront23: **** ghandi. His wife was sick and he refused to allow her the simple treatment that would have saved her life saying her life was in gods hands. She died. Then less than 6 weeks later he got sick and took all thw medicine he could stuff into himself to save his own ass.

I'm on the phone and can't link it but if you want to see what a hypocritical monster ghandi is it is simple enough to look up.

I can agree with that. My parents have instilled that in my mind repeatedly. On that note, a lot of police are prejudiced against black people. Watch this video.

@thebest31406: so dillian harris does not exist? Is that the strawman? His death was virtually ignored? Is that the part I set up just to knock down? Also, I will continue to ridicule hypocrisy because that is the part that demonstates how some lives seem to matter while thousands of others do not.

Except that BLM are the ones putting media spotlight on police killings facing ALL races.

@Motokid6:

So blindly adhere to police instructions even when they enforce violence against you? Don't retaliate? Even out of desperation?

You went on a tangent about the zinger of my post. Whatever happened to the concept of empathy? Is that not "quantifiable" enough to be considered?

@battlefront23: yeah I really can't stand that asshole.

No. The strawman was made when you suggested that battlefront argued that White people were to blame for the violent acts. He didn't say that.

Also, I will continue to ridicule hypocrisy because that is the part that demonstates how some lives seem to matter while thousands of others do not.

Well, no; you're not ridiculing hypocrisy. For you to do that, you'd have to show that hypocrisy exists on the part of the protesters. Lack of collective condemnation over the killing of the child doesn't suggest hypocrisy. It'd be like suggesting that...a White guy condemning a shooting in Ferguson is a hypocrite because he didn't voice his concern over a baby being ran over.

Thanks bro.

@battlefront23: I guess I must have misunderstood that whole part about how we must look to the past and being Highly influenced.

@marth6352: not counting the netroots thing where the guy made the mistake of saying all lives matter, got booed and had to apologive later. Lol. Anyway I was not talking anout that. I was talking about how dillion harris life along with thousands of other black homicide victims holds no value to blm.

@Riverwolf007:

I'll be honest and say I'm no great debater by any means.

I would just say, from my own experience, working closely with these communities, I can see the negative effects of several centuries of oppression, even if, obviously speaking, that oppression is declining.

Will that ever excuse criminal activity? I've said it before and I'll say it again; a hundred times no.

But, I think it is more balanced to not just outright pick sides on a complex issue like this. I like the idea of BLM, especially as a means to spread awareness of the disproportionate amount of police on black violence. HOWEVER, I likewise don't like their approach, don't like their over-focusing on one issue affecting one demographic of people, and I don't like they don't address the violence and hypocrisy within their own communities. With that last point though, again, we need to look at the poverty and criminal element tearing apart these communities.

When the jobs disappeared, crack was introduced, and the FBI started removing major influential leaders within the community, the culture devolved, as it should, logically.

They weren't the only race to be oppressed, yet everybody else seems to be doing fine?

They were systemically removed from their natural heritage and hailed across the Atlantic for the profit of several wealthy white men.

I defy you to tell me a similarly oppressive set of actions done to any other race in America.

EDIT: Oh wait... I forgot. Why don't we ask the Natives? I wonder what they think.

How do you know that?

@battlefront23: there were 1.25 million white slaves held along the barbary coast.

So ALL police officers are like Captain America? They are all totally impartial, and never use their power in an abusive fashion?

@Riverwolf007:

How many blacks jumped on the boat, just to "catch the waves?"

Why is violence being enforced upon you? You have to antagonize a police officer for them to get shitty with you. You keep your mouth shut. You speak when spoken too ( that's a big one ) and you do do as your told. If a cop asks you to get out of the car you do NOT ask why. You get your ass out of the car with at most a yes sir or ma'am.

And there won't be any problems other then the original reason that the cop is involved.

LOL damn. Textbook authoritarianism.

@thebest31406: the whole thing is on video.

They sold their own people all over the world.

I'm jewish, my whole RACE was almost systemically removed from the planet in the worst way possible.

If you live in the past, you'll never move forward.

I agree.

But I never said they, we, should live in the past. But to better move forward, we must see how the problems of the now are influenced by the errors of the past.

@battlefront23: yeah... idk what that means. You defied me to find a similar cultural experience and I gave you one.

I understand your viewpoint. You have to understand the past and how people came to be how they are, not just treat them like animals.

My viewpoint is, the same excuses have been used for how long now? It's everybody's fault but their own. We will NEVER move forward if we keep pointing our finger at other shit, using slavery as a reason which happened how long ago? Were any of these people involved in ANY OF THE SHOOTINGS lately ever been a slave? What makes me mad about this kind of thinking is that it undermines REAL racism when it happens. People are getting polarized and just plain sick of it, and when real racism or oppression happens, nobody will take it seriously.

@Riverwolf007:

Right. Because the ENTIRE group of white people were forcibly taken from one continent.

A lot of whites, even a million, =/= the ENTIRE population of sold blacks taken to the Atlantic.

It's crazy, there's a Kendrick Lamar song with a similar message.

Blacks, as a whole, need to call out their own shit when they see it. Address it, change it, sustain it.

But I have to see how I was INCREDIBLY blessed to be apart of the majority, and I never had to worry about any of this stuff.

That doesn't mean I'm saying whitey bad, black good. I just think our whole society has to shift, whites and blacks.

I'm apart of the education system. I am involved with a moderately sized black community, and I do my part to set a POSITIVE example for them to model. Past that, the ball is in their court.

Folks expressing that the lives of Dillion and others hold no value, is on the the video.....

Not directing this specifically towards anyone, but I think this video is incredibly pertinent to this discussion.

@thebest31406: no a crowd booing the phrase all lives matter and the guy having to apologize is on video. The orher part is self evident by who is and is not championed by blm.

There's no maybe about it; it's exactly what you've just described. Quite horrible, really. But, you're entitled to your opinion so...whatever.

@battlefront23: an educator. ..that never heard of the barbary slave trade. Jesus. This is exactly why we are all fucked....you knew there was a war right? From 1801 to 1805? It was in all the papers.

No, it isn't.

Ah, arrogance...

Yep, I'm human, and I don't know everything. You got me.

Phew. I thought it would be scary when someone figured that out, but it is not that bad really. I

@thebest31406: then why was blm silent about harris? Why was he not important? He is certainly more important to me than mike brown is....y'know putting aside the callousness of valuing one life against another's.