Shootings erupt in ferguson.

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Riverwolf007

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#102  Edited By Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@battlefront23 said:
Loading Video...

Not directing this specifically towards anyone, but I think this video is incredibly pertinent to this discussion.

(that's touching... now lets try one that is not fictional... mine. this was a little number that came up while we were discussing mob violence a few weeks ago so it will be a bit out of date.)

y'know... solving racism seems like pretty tedious unrewarding work. and i thought, well screw those ot guys, they won't listen or care anyway. and you are going to look like darth jefferson davis saying a bunch of shit nobody wants to hear.

and i was like, well **** it, maybe i created a little video monster that's too ugly to pursue and i don't like you guys enough put in the effort for your goddamn glimmer of hope that you are not in any way going to like the meaning of...

but then i thought about my beloved great grandfather drunky o'spudraper (later americanized into henry au grautin) .

and that motherfucker never owned 2 fucking suits much less any people and once he had gotten away from the lynch mobs he had a gaggle of sharecropping/ditch digging/ factory sweatshop working descendants (because a few of the factories didn't burn everyone up) and all of them that made it past infant mortality were portrayed as criminal white woman raping subhuman apes and look folks, i won't even so much as have a fucking bottle of mrs. butterworths or a sack of uncle ben's rice in the goddamn house because of the moral quandary i have looking at the slave imagery in those soulful eyes on the packaging. so if it's all the same to everyone can i go to the fucking jazzfest downtown without a crowd of more than 10 guys clobbering me from behind then kicking out my teeth and crushing my eye sockets in?

(pictured here grammy and granpaw) (love youuu! see you at xmas!)

but no! apt story or no that's just selfish of me and wrong to bring up and i see that now.

well what does that leave? do i address being property of the state and bringing up for the thousandth time if some stressed out, burnt out, jumpy, underpaid, intellectually questionable, possibly psychotic or sociopathic, ex-jock in the middle of a divorce tells me to do jumping jacks on the yellow line then i'm doing motherfucking jumping jacks on the motherfucking yellow line because any other choice is a fucking dice roll that can easily end with me cuffed and bleeding out on the side of the road.

(other times he's just lovely though and works with charities and the handicapable)

you are free to test this out by telling the next cop that pulls you over to go **** himself, then when he orders you out of the car apologizing and going to him for a hug... lol, oh shit, this was supposed to be the hope talk not the reality check talk that nobody wants to admit talk because the horror of being a faceless cog completely under the control of an at least somewhat corrupt state, local and federal government talk is just getting me in deeper here.

ok, so lets just ignore that... so if i don't want to be selfish and talk about myself or paranoid and the property of the state thing is wrong and we need something more specific to shift all the blame for everything to other than my overwhelming paranoia plus.. y'know... reality, then how about those schools?

ok, now we are getting someplace.... i remember seeing a heartbreaking video of some poor child that had been bullied beyond any ability he had left to control himself anymore. he cried out in a way that i had never even heard a human do before. a heartrending mournful cry for help in the face of terror. a banshee wail of a thousand doomed souls trapped in hell. i have never seen anything so sad and desperate in my entire life.

this video was, of course, put on the internet so people could laugh at it and call him urkel.

Loading Video...

and i don't know shit about this kid.... he could be a little asshole who deserves to get terrorized or he could be doing fine. he and his monster manual and 12 sided dice may have made it out of his situation intact and he may never think of this video that made his already shitty life even worse. i certainly hope he did, who knows how shit like this can turn out. what did this kid do to get some respect or protect himself if he ever did? you know they sometimes charge people with assault for schoolyard scuffles these days. what if he got sucked into the criminal justice system and gets the rest of education in a detention facility. what if he... shit wait.... ok... hope again this is about hope... right, i get carried away. there are too many variables and it's probably terrible and not hopeful at all and can't tell us anything so ok... **** that kid. obviously getting pounded on by a bunch guys for just a few years probably does nothing bad to a young psyche or causes any long term effects or patterns in dealing with the people around you.

but.... we are getting closer.

so what if i go the other way here for my real victim? what about de'andre whatshisname from fsu, all he did was defend himself from some drunk and be stupid enough to be underage in a bar. and we are all going to condemn him and ruin his life and suspend him and hit him over and over again while he is down over some overblown perceived injustice that he just had the bad luck to stumble into and now he has to be put in a medically induced coma until the brain swelling goes down and ...... godammit! now i'm back into the selfish mode and a motherfucking horrible monstrous misogynist on top of that for not thinking it's ok to let a woman beat on you.... **** me, i told you this was a complex one....

ok... **** it. i give up. there is nothing i got for you. there is no hope, not even a glimmer. there is no reason for addressing violence in our communities or keeping your nose clean to adulthood or for not throwing a brick at me when you see me in line for a beer at riverfest and i guess i deserve it because i could not come up with any legal way to just get these racists away from us all.

unless....

Loading Video...

boom motherfuckers. look at that shit. a black man with the ability to protect himself and end racism in its tracks. and the family says as long as it is investigated properly they understand.

and the motherfucking cvs didn't get burned down and nobody had to go to a candlelight vigil for an asshole.

is there nothing guns can't do?

so yes. i guess you are the fucking victim here because you are the one that gets banned from being able to protect yourself if you don't tow the line and play the game.

so remember kids, there is some hope after all, keep your fucking nose clean into adulthood, suffer through the soul destroying indignity of being under the power of suspicious possibly unstable armed civil servants just like everyone else is and get that ccw because there is after all a reward for playing a game other than the knockout game.

and if shooting a fucking racist in the face and being patted on the back for it by the community is not enough to motivate you then nothing will.

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battlefront23

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#103 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts

@Riverwolf007:

I don't... I can't...

This is beyond me.

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thebest31406

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#104 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

@Riverwolf007 said:

@thebest31406: then why was blm silent about harris? Why was he not important? He is certainly more important to me than mike brown is....y'know putting aside the callousness of valuing one life against another's.

What do you mean "then why were they silent", as if to suggest that they were 'agnostic' on the issue, or refused to talk about it? You didn't hear them talk about it; that's all their "silence" tells you. Do you know what their collective position is on the incident? No, you don't. So how can you claim hypocrisy?

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Riverwolf007

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#106  Edited By Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@thebest31406 said:
@Riverwolf007 said:

@thebest31406: then why was blm silent about harris? Why was he not important? He is certainly more important to me than mike brown is....y'know putting aside the callousness of valuing one life against another's.

What do you mean "then why were they silent", as if to suggest that they were 'agnostic' on the issue, or refused to talk about it? You didn't hear them talk about it; that's all their "silence" tells you. Do you know what their collective position is on the incident? No, you don't. So how can you claim hypocrisy?

because it is self evident that they dare not criticize the black community about black on black crime.

because they pick a half dozen murders to highlight while ignoring 6,000 other african american homicides.

because at netroots they booed the phrase "all lives matter" as soon as someone was dumb enough to say it then forced an apology from the governor.

i ask "why were they silent" because nobody will dare to answer that question honestly.

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Riverwolf007

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#107  Edited By Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@n64dd said:
@battlefront23 said:
@n64dd said:
@battlefront23 said:

@Riverwolf007:

I'll be honest and say I'm no great debater by any means.

I would just say, from my own experience, working closely with these communities, I can see the negative effects of several centuries of oppression, even if, obviously speaking, that oppression is declining.

Will that ever excuse criminal activity? I've said it before and I'll say it again; a hundred times no.

But, I think it is more balanced to not just outright pick sides on a complex issue like this. I like the idea of BLM, especially as a means to spread awareness of the disproportionate amount of police on black violence. HOWEVER, I likewise don't like their approach, don't like their over-focusing on one issue affecting one demographic of people, and I don't like they don't address the violence and hypocrisy within their own communities. With that last point though, again, we need to look at the poverty and criminal element tearing apart these communities.

When the jobs disappeared, crack was introduced, and the FBI started removing major influential leaders within the community, the culture devolved, as it should, logically.

They weren't the only race to be oppressed, yet everybody else seems to be doing fine?

They were systemically removed from their natural heritage and hailed across the Atlantic for the profit of several wealthy white men.

I defy you to tell me a similarly oppressive set of actions done to any other race in America.

EDIT: Oh wait... I forgot. Why don't we ask the Natives? I wonder what they think.

They sold their own people all over the world.

I'm jewish, my whole RACE was almost systemically removed from the planet in the worst way possible.

If you live in the past, you'll never move forward.

shaddup you! you know nothing about casual institutionalized pervasive racism!

just like i don't.

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thebest31406

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#108  Edited By thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

@Motokid6 said:
@thebest31406 said:
@Motokid6 said:
@thebest31406 said:

There's no maybe about it; it's exactly what you've just described. Quite horrible, really. But, you're entitled to your opinion so...whatever.

I just don't want to go to jail. So I'll say and do ( or don't say and don't do ) whatever it is so I can continue on with my day. That's it.

"Heres a $250 ticket for doing 30 in a 25.'

"Okay sir have a good day."

Then I'll fight the ticket later to have it reduced.

That's reasonable but that's not quite what you were professing. You were embracing authoritarianism and declaring that others had a duty to do the same.

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thebest31406

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#110  Edited By thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts
@Riverwolf007 said:
@thebest31406 said:
@Riverwolf007 said:

@thebest31406: then why was blm silent about harris? Why was he not important? He is certainly more important to me than mike brown is....y'know putting aside the callousness of valuing one life against another's.

What do you mean "then why were they silent", as if to suggest that they were 'agnostic' on the issue, or refused to talk about it? You didn't hear them talk about it; that's all their "silence" tells you. Do you know what their collective position is on the incident? No, you don't. So how can you claim hypocrisy?

because it is self evident that they dare not criticize the black community about black on black crime.

because they pick a half dozen murders to highlight while ignoring 6,000 other african american homicides.

because at netroots they booed the phrase "all lives matter" as soon as someone was dumb enough to say it then forced an apology from the governor.

i ask "why were they silent" because nobody will dare to answer that question honestly.

Now you're all over the place. All I asked from you was to prove the movement's view on this particular incident and what do you do? You do anything but that. Instead, you offer more conjecture and "whataboutisms." I really have no tolerance for this nonsense. So, can we just call it quits?

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Riverwolf007

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#111 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@thebest31406 said:
@Riverwolf007 said:
@thebest31406 said:
@Riverwolf007 said:

@thebest31406: then why was blm silent about harris? Why was he not important? He is certainly more important to me than mike brown is....y'know putting aside the callousness of valuing one life against another's.

What do you mean "then why were they silent", as if to suggest that they were 'agnostic' on the issue, or refused to talk about it? You didn't hear them talk about it; that's all their "silence" tells you. Do you know what their collective position is on the incident? No, you don't. So how can you claim hypocrisy?

because it is self evident that they dare not criticize the black community about black on black crime.

because they pick a half dozen murders to highlight while ignoring 6,000 other african american homicides.

because at netroots they booed the phrase "all lives matter" as soon as someone was dumb enough to say it then forced an apology from the governor.

i ask "why were they silent" because nobody will dare to answer that question honestly.

Now you're all over the place. All I asked if from you was to prove the movement's view on this particular incident and what do you do? You do anything but that. Instead, you offer more conjecture and "whataboutisms." I really have no tolerance for this nonsense. So, can we just call it quits?

lulz. i never know if you guys are just playing games, are in denial or are just blind.

i can show you patterns of behavior, i can show you evidence, i can compare and contrast different but similar events and the reactions those events cause but because i cannot find a blm quote that says the exact thing then it is not valid.

nobody is ever going to say we don't care about one kid over another kid.

they are going to ignore one kid or event and publicize another kid or event.

i can't hold your hand here. at some point you have to connect a few dots for yourself.

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Riverwolf007

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#112  Edited By Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@battlefront23 said:
@Riverwolf007said:

an educator. ..that never heard of the barbary slave trade. Jesus. This is exactly why we are all fucked....you knew there was a war right? From 1801 to 1805? It was in all the papers.

Ah, arrogance...

Yep, I'm human, and I don't know everything. You got me.

Phew. I thought it would be scary when someone figured that out, but it is not that bad really. I

yes i am arrogant. it's one of my more charming features.

but here is the deal. part of your thing is saying nobody else experienced this type of slavery.

that's not true, every race has been held in slavery with no exception. even whites in huge numbers and even as late as the 1800's.

so tbo no. i'm not asking you to know everything but i am asking that you be at least educated in the things you want to shoot the shit about and especially if you are in some sort of educational position.

and yeah, i know this is not really your fault.

nobody talks about the barbary slave trade and the tripolitan war that thomas jefferson prosecuted in americas 1st overseas military action.

it's a chapter of history that is virtually untaught in schools. lulz.... just like a lot of things jefferson was super into...like slave rape and selling children.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm

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Master_Live

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#113 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts
@thebest31406 said:

Why is violence being enforced upon you? You have to antagonize a police officer for them to get shitty with you. You keep your mouth shut. You speak when spoken too ( that's a big one ) and you do do as your told. If a cop asks you to get out of the car you do NOT ask why. You get your ass out of the car with at most a yes sir or ma'am.

And there won't be any problems other then the original reason that the cop is involved.

LOL damn. Textbook authoritarianism.

Cops, in general, need to be brought down a peg.

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thebest31406

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#114 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

@Riverwolf007:lulz. i never know if you guys are just playing games, are in denial or are just blind.

i can show you patterns of behavior, i can show you evidence, i can compare and contrast different but similar events and the reactions those events cause but because i cannot find a blm quote that says the exact thing then it is not valid.

nobody is ever going to say we don't care about one kid over another kid.

they are going to ignore one kid or event and publicize another kid or event.

i can't hold your hand here. at some point you have to connect a few dots for yourself.

You've done nothing other than argue that "they're hypocrites because they've expressed concern for incident A but not incident B; and therefore, we can can assume that they're agnostic on incident B." That's an appeal to hypocrisy; a fallacious argument and no, it has no validity. Otherwise, yeah; in order to substantiate your clam, you have to know what views they've expressed regarding the incident. Anything less is conspiracy theory, and no; I have no tolerance for that, either.

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Riverwolf007

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#115  Edited By Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@thebest31406 said:

@Riverwolf007:lulz. i never know if you guys are just playing games, are in denial or are just blind.

i can show you patterns of behavior, i can show you evidence, i can compare and contrast different but similar events and the reactions those events cause but because i cannot find a blm quote that says the exact thing then it is not valid.

nobody is ever going to say we don't care about one kid over another kid.

they are going to ignore one kid or event and publicize another kid or event.

i can't hold your hand here. at some point you have to connect a few dots for yourself.

You've done nothing other than argue that "they're hypocrites because they've expressed concern for incident A but not incident B; and therefore, we can can assume that they're agnostic on incident B." That's an appeal to hypocrisy; a fallacious argument and no, it has no validity. Otherwise, yeah; in order to substantiate your clam, you have to know what views they've expressed regarding the incident. Anything less is conspiracy theory, and no; I have no tolerance for that, either.

i was also arguing blm was a total farce for bringing children to a late night gun battle anniversary extravaganza and screaming harpys making bernie sanders look bad after his decades of civil rights advocacy and that blm may want to consider not making their friends look like idiots and hauling their kids to places where 3 gun battles and a riot erupt at.

so please, let's not just concentrate on the comedy of "incident A" being 6 to 10 murders and "incident B" being 6,000. heck, how about this. you can win that one. arguing rules say you can't point out the obviously politically driven nature of publicizing 6 out of 6,000 murders and how those other murders are trivialized so i will take your word for it.

but really, me mistaking blm for a parody seems a bit plausible right?

am i really this far off base here in my criticism?

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thebest31406

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#116  Edited By thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts

@Riverwolf007 said:
@thebest31406 said:

@Riverwolf007:lulz. i never know if you guys are just playing games, are in denial or are just blind.

i can show you patterns of behavior, i can show you evidence, i can compare and contrast different but similar events and the reactions those events cause but because i cannot find a blm quote that says the exact thing then it is not valid.

nobody is ever going to say we don't care about one kid over another kid.

they are going to ignore one kid or event and publicize another kid or event.

i can't hold your hand here. at some point you have to connect a few dots for yourself.

You've done nothing other than argue that "they're hypocrites because they've expressed concern for incident A but not incident B; and therefore, we can can assume that they're agnostic on incident B." That's an appeal to hypocrisy; a fallacious argument and no, it has no validity. Otherwise, yeah; in order to substantiate your clam, you have to know what views they've expressed regarding the incident. Anything less is conspiracy theory, and no; I have no tolerance for that, either.

i was also arguing blm was a total farce for bringing children to a late night gun battle anniversary extravaganza and screaming harpys making bernie sanders look bad after his decades of civil rights advocacy and that blm may want to consider not making their friends look like idiots and hauling their kids to places where 3 gun battles and a riot erupt at.

so please, let's not just concentrate on the comedy of "incident A" being 6 to 10 murders and "incident B" being 6,000. heck, how about this. you can win that one. arguing rules say you can't point out the obviously politically driven nature of publicizing 6 out of 6,000 murders and how those other murders are trivialized so i will take your word for it.

but really, me mistaking blm for a parody seems a bit plausible right?

am i really this far off base here in my criticism?

........I swear on everything that is holy, and on every dead relative, known and not known, I have absolutely no idea what this is.

Um...listen, why don't we just call it quits, alright? I got the message. There's no need to go any further with this...