Should businesses have the right to drug test people for low-level positions?
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[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"]The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party is indeed a real party
Rhazakna
what exactly do they stand for?
A "tolerant" form of Nazism that promotes the idea that all races have a grand ancestry that should be preserved, and not mixed with other races. They're also environmentalists.
Brilliant. Thought you guys were joking.
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]No one has a right to stop them, just like no one has a right to keep pot illegal.
Super_Socialist
its not a matter of stopping them; the only way to could stop someone is through force, which is a violation of a humans inherit rights. This a matter of having the type of people you want on your property.
Not all uses of force are against humanism or human rights.
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"]The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party is indeed a real party
jimmyjammer69
what exactly do they stand for?
A "tolerant" form of Nazism that promotes the idea that all races have a grand ancestry that should be preserved, and not mixed with other races. They're also environmentalists.
Brilliant. Thought you guys were joking.
Nope.
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]No one has a right to stop them, just like no one has a right to keep pot illegal.
-TheSecondSign-
its not a matter of stopping them; the only way to could stop someone is through force, which is a violation of a humans inherit rights. This a matter of having the type of people you want on your property.
Not all uses of force are against humanism or human rights.
I think it is. Unless of course you're violating someone elses rights. Thats somewhat of a different topic.
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]No one has a right to stop them, just like no one has a right to keep pot illegal.
Super_Socialist
its not a matter of stopping them; the only way to could stop someone is through force, which is a violation of a humans inherit rights. This a matter of having the type of people you want on your property.
Not all uses of force are against humanism or human rights.
I think it is. Unless of course you're violating someone elses rights. Thats somewhat of a different topic.
If you're trying to put unnecessary laws in place of business, I think if it gets to a certain point, physical violence is an inevitability.
Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?NearTheEnd
They may be forced to hire them now but it doesn't help anything. If people don't like you because of your skin color and they control the business, it is not hard to blacklist them.
If your hirers are racist then their workers are probably racist or carry similar ideologies, therefore, putting such laws in place is worthless and most likely only breeds more intolerance and social unacceptance.
[QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?Rhazakna
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.Of course we think it's disgusting, but forcing them to hire you does not force them to be tolerant of you.
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.its against the law, but that law is unethical.
owning your business is really no different than owning a house, it just so happens you make a profit from one. just like you can deny anyone to enter your house you should be able to do so in your business. for some people, their business and home is the same thing.
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?-TheSecondSign-
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.Of course we think it's disgusting, but forcing them to hire you does not force them to be tolerant of you.
i was responding to the idea that it is "within their right" not to hire blacks.[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.Of course we think it's disgusting, but forcing them to hire you does not force them to be tolerant of you.
i was responding to the idea that it is "within their right" not to hire blacks.But forcing them to hire you, which would be the counterargument, is just as stupid, because it will only make them bitter, and the only thing worse than a racist is a bitter racist.
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.I wouldn't support a business that wouldn't hire people because of their race, but it's wrong to force people to associate with each other. People should freely choose who they do business with. Black owned businesses shouldn't have to hire white people if they don't want to either.
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?Super_Socialist
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.its against the law, but that law is unethical.
owning your business is really no different than owning a house, it just so happens you make a profit from one. just like you can deny anyone to enter your house you should be able to do so in your business. for some people, their business and home is the same thing.
So your saying de facto segregation is just fine? You should be able to chose who you serve! So if you dont want to serve the black guy at the counter, hell its your buisness. you have the right to choose who you serve!
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.its against the law, but that law is unethical.
owning your business is really no different than owning a house, it just so happens you make a profit from one. just like you can deny anyone to enter your house you should be able to do so in your business. for some people, their business and home is the same thing.
So your saying de facto segregation is just fine? You should be able to chose who you serve! So if you dont want to serve the black guy at the counter, hell its your buisness. you have the right to choose who you serve!
yup.
i think racism is pretty weak, but i also think people should live in a free society.
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?-TheSecondSign-
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.Of course we think it's disgusting, but forcing them to hire you does not force them to be tolerant of you.
i was responding to the idea that it is "within their right" not to hire blacks.But forcing them to hire you, which would be the counterargument, is just as stupid, because it will only make them bitter, and the only thing worse than a racist is a bitter racist.
The only thing worse than injustice is the man who sees it, shurgs, and justifies it as the right of another man to deny employment based on the color of ones' skin.[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?Super_Socialist
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.its against the law, but that law is unethical.
owning your business is really no different than owning a house, it just so happens you make a profit from one. just like you can deny anyone to enter your house you should be able to do so in your business. for some people, their business and home is the same thing.
So your saying de facto segregation is just fine? You should be able to chose who you serve! So if you dont want to serve the black guy at the counter, hell its your buisness. you have the right to choose who you serve!
yup.
i think racism is pretty weak, but i also think people should live in a free society.
We had that "free society" back before the civil rights movement: black people and white people werent served at the same cafes, used different water fountains, and buisnesses didnt serve blacks. Thats your idea of free?[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.Of course we think it's disgusting, but forcing them to hire you does not force them to be tolerant of you.
i was responding to the idea that it is "within their right" not to hire blacks.But forcing them to hire you, which would be the counterargument, is just as stupid, because it will only make them bitter, and the only thing worse than a racist is a bitter racist.
The only thing worse than injustice is the man who sees it, shurgs, and justifies it as the right of another man to deny employment based on the color of ones' skin.Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.its against the law, but that law is unethical.
owning your business is really no different than owning a house, it just so happens you make a profit from one. just like you can deny anyone to enter your house you should be able to do so in your business. for some people, their business and home is the same thing.
So your saying de facto segregation is just fine? You should be able to chose who you serve! So if you dont want to serve the black guy at the counter, hell its your buisness. you have the right to choose who you serve!
yup.
i think racism is pretty weak, but i also think people should live in a free society.
We had that "free society" back before the civil rights movement: black people and white people werent served at the same cafes, used different water fountains, and buisnesses didnt serve blacks. Thats your idea of free?It was not free at all because the State instituted racist laws that treated blacks as second class citizens. It was the government that was the problem. If they didn't institute those laws to begin with, race relations would be far better in this country.
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="NearTheEnd"]Is it OK for businesses not to hire blacks?p2rus
I would say it's unethical, but it's certainly should be withing their rights not to. No one has the right to force people to associate with each other.
today, i would think that you cant do that. and i think its 1. disgusting to do that. 2. should be completly illegal.its against the law, but that law is unethical.
owning your business is really no different than owning a house, it just so happens you make a profit from one. just like you can deny anyone to enter your house you should be able to do so in your business. for some people, their business and home is the same thing.
So your saying de facto segregation is just fine? You should be able to chose who you serve! So if you dont want to serve the black guy at the counter, hell its your buisness. you have the right to choose who you serve!
yup.
i think racism is pretty weak, but i also think people should live in a free society.
We had that "free society" back before the civil rights movement: black people and white people werent served at the same cafes, used different water fountains, and buisnesses didnt serve blacks. Thats your idea of free?Forced segregation is not the same thing as what im talking about. Jim Crow laws werenot an accurate representation of freedom. However if everyone simply chose to not associate then thatis a free decision.
If I own a business, I should be able to hire someone at my free will. The business is my property.
Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
-TheSecondSign-
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
p2rus
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Hosptials would have to hire nonracist EMTs and doctors or the people would all go to another hospital.
Same goes with all service granting companies.
They want to maximize profit, very few large providers would be racist.
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
p2rus
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
What right do you have to force someone to serve you?
After the end of the jim crow laws segregation was both de facto and de jure. But how is one more acceptable than another? It was not the 'freedom to dissassociate"... if so then white people today can say that the civil rights movement was terrible because it took away their right to hate.Forced segregation is not the same thing as what im talking about. Jim Crow laws werenot an accurate representation of freedom. However if everyone simply chose to not associate then thatis a free decision.
If I own a business, I should be able to hire someone at my free will. The business is my property.
Super_Socialist
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
p2rus
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]After the end of the jim crow laws segregation was both de facto and de jure. But how is one more acceptable than another? It was not the 'freedom to dissassociate"... if so then white people today can say that the civil rights movement was terrible because it took away their right to hate.Forced segregation is not the same thing as what im talking about. Jim Crow laws werenot an accurate representation of freedom. However if everyone simply chose to not associate then thatis a free decision.
If I own a business, I should be able to hire someone at my free will. The business is my property.
p2rus
because freedom is good, tyranny isnt.
Civil rights dont take away your right to hate at all. Obviously you cant violate someones rights though.
What right do you have to force someone to serve you?
Super_Socialist
Seriously. I don't see how, tommorrow in the line, your purchasing groceries. In the line over, the cashier refuses to check the groceries of a woman because she is asian. "Sorry, company policy says that we dont serve asians."
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]What right do you have to force someone to serve you?
p2rus
Seriously. I don't see how, tommorrow in the line, your purchasing groceries. In the line over, the cashier refuses to check the groceries of a woman because she is asian. "Sorry, company policy says that we dont serve asians."
You avoided my question.
Let me ask again.
What right do you have to force someone to serve you?
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
Rhazakna
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
Human rights...So basically, your saying screw the minority. If there is a single immigrant family from a country in the whole United State, you feel that every single instution can just turn him away just because they want to?
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
p2rus
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
Human rights...So basically, your saying screw the minority. If there is a single immigrant family from a country in the whole United State, you feel that every single instution can just turn him away just because they want to?
Human rights are property rights. You cant violate someone elses property, which includes their body.
Hes not saying that at all. Please dont try that strawman crap.
Yes they can do that, even if that would be stupid.
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]What right do you have to force someone to serve you?
p2rus
Seriously. I don't see how, tommorrow in the line, your purchasing groceries. In the line over, the cashier refuses to check the groceries of a woman because she is asian. "Sorry, company policy says that we dont serve asians."
Chances are said grocery store would have a backlash from the Asian community, and other communities who don't approve of their methods. I certainly wouldn't shop there, and I would tell everyone I knew to avoid it. They would probably either have to reconsider their business practices, or risk going out of business. Profit is far more important to most business owners than anything else, even the racist ones. You see clerks behind 7-11 being paranoid about black kids all the time, but even if they could, I doubt the would turn down their money.
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
Super_Socialist
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
Human rights...So basically, your saying screw the minority. If there is a single immigrant family from a country in the whole United State, you feel that every single instution can just turn him away just because they want to?
Human rights are property rights. You cant violate someone elses property, which includes their body.
Hes not saying that at all. Please dont try that strawman crap.
Yes they can do that, even if that would be stupid.
aaand you call yourself a socialist?[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
p2rus
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
Human rights...So basically, your saying screw the minority. If there is a single immigrant family from a country in the whole United State, you feel that every single instution can just turn him away just because they want to?
I'm saying people should be free to associate with who they want. The situation you talk about is absurd, and would never occur. In a truly free market (which the US definitely does not have), even the most racist business owners would sell to everyone because of all the competition.
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]What right do you have to force someone to serve you?
Rhazakna
Seriously. I don't see how, tommorrow in the line, your purchasing groceries. In the line over, the cashier refuses to check the groceries of a woman because she is asian. "Sorry, company policy says that we dont serve asians."
Chances are said grocery store would have a backlash from the Asian community, and other communities who don't approve of their methods. I certainly wouldn't shop there, and I would tell everyone I knew to avoid it. They would probably either have to reconsider their business practices, or risk going out of business. Profit is far more important to most business owners than anything else, even the racist ones. You see clerks behind 7-11 being paranoid about black kids all the time, but even if they could, I doubt the would turn down their money.
I completly agree.
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
p2rus
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
Human rights...So basically, your saying screw the minority. If there is a single immigrant family from a country in the whole United State, you feel that every single instution can just turn him away just because they want to?
Human rights are property rights. You cant violate someone elses property, which includes their body.
Hes not saying that at all. Please dont try that strawman crap.
Yes they can do that, even if that would be stupid.
aaand you call yourself a socialist?I want you to answer:
What gives you the right to force someone to serve you?
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
Rhazakna
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
Human rights...So basically, your saying screw the minority. If there is a single immigrant family from a country in the whole United State, you feel that every single instution can just turn him away just because they want to?
I'm saying people should be free to associate with who they want. The situation you talk about is absurd, and would never occur. In a truly free market (which the US definitely does not have), even the most racist business owners would sell to everyone because of all the competition.
Ok for example, muslims in america / people who looked arab after 9/11. You would see a cycle of poverty simply because of the color of their skin. Im sorry, i undertsand what your saying from a economic standpoint, but from a humanist standpoint... its simply disgusting.[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]Not really, you can do the same thing.
We can't force people to get along, there's no magic button with that law that makes people stop hating each other.
They will blacklist and hate you anyway, the law is, in my opinion, completely pointless.
If a black person doesn't want to hire me because I'm white...I'll have to search somewhere else, won't I?
p2rus
Then the next step is the right to deny service based on the color of ones' skin: if a black buisness doesn't want to serve me because I'm white... I'll have to just find someplace else wont I! It's not worth it to force the racist to serve you; he just ends up bitter, which is worse.
Yes, that should be a right. If a business owner is stupid enough to limit his customer base, and lose money by not serving group X, then he should be free to enter the market and do so. Property rights FTW.
Human rights...So basically, your saying screw the minority. If there is a single immigrant family from a country in the whole United State, you feel that every single instution can just turn him away just because they want to?
I'm saying people should be free to associate with who they want. The situation you talk about is absurd, and would never occur. In a truly free market (which the US definitely does not have), even the most racist business owners would sell to everyone because of all the competition.
Ok for example, muslims in america / people who looked arab after 9/11. You would see a cycle of poverty simply because of the color of their skin. Im sorry, i undertsand what your saying from a economic standpoint, but from a humanist standpoint... its simply disgusting.the islam community did a pretty decent job of disassociating themselves from terrorism. there was a big thing right after 911 talking about how terrorism isnt exactly islam.
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]p2rus
I want you to answer:
What gives you the right to force someone to serve you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
and also some Supreme Court Decisions sprinkled in there.
1. im asking YOU what right YOU have
2. Are you implying anything the government says is right?
the islam community did a pretty decent job of disassociating themselves from terrorism. there was a big thing right after 911 talking about how terrorism isnt exactly islam.
Super_Socialist
Actually maybe you missed it... there was a lot of anger towards islam. Also, hey the french... maybe we wouldnt have served the french at any store in america. What about the chinese and japanese? And the irish?
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]Ok for example, muslims in america / people who looked arab after 9/11. You would see a cycle of poverty simply because of the color of their skin. Im sorry, i undertsand what your saying from a economic standpoint, but from a humanist standpoint... its simply disgusting.I'm saying people should be free to associate with who they want. The situation you talk about is absurd, and would never occur. In a truly free market (which the US definitely does not have), even the most racist business owners would sell to everyone because of all the competition.
p2rus
It is not. It's called a free society. It's called negative rights. Freedom is far more important than fairness. It's an entirely humanist position. Muslims can open their own businesses and sell only to Muslims if they so choose. And in a free market, opening up a business would be simple and cheap.
1. im asking YOU what right YOU have
2. Are you implying anything the government says is right?
Super_Socialist
1. Well you see... the rights of the constution, and this Civil Rights act, and Supreme Court Decisions... thats a pretty good safety net for my rights.
2. ...Of course not. But does that mean that the government cant be right once in a blue moon?
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]the islam community did a pretty decent job of disassociating themselves from terrorism. there was a big thing right after 911 talking about how terrorism isnt exactly islam.
p2rus
Actually maybe you missed it... there was a lot of anger towards islam. Also, hey the french... maybe we wouldnt have served the french at any store in america. What about the chinese and japanese? And the irish?
There was also a lot of understanding that islam isnt a religion of violence.
Im Irish, do you expect me to change my opinion or something? Of course they can not serve the irish I also dont like how you assume im some sort of racist just because I like the idea of freedom. I think thats an extremely narrow and disgustingly simplistic world view on your behalf; I suggest you start thinking outside of the little box you give yourself.
[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]1. im asking YOU what right YOU have
2. Are you implying anything the government says is right?
p2rus
1. Well you see... the rights of the constution, and this Civil Rights act, and Supreme Court Decisions... thats a pretty good safety net for my rights.
2. ...Of course not. But does that mean that the government cant be right once in a blue moon?
so basically what you're saying is that everyone has the same morals, and we shouldnt be free to make our own.
then you bring answer number 2, in which I say, "Who decides when the government is actually right?"
Morals are completely relative, and freedom is far more important than social justice could ever hope to be.
[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]the islam community did a pretty decent job of disassociating themselves from terrorism. there was a big thing right after 911 talking about how terrorism isnt exactly islam.
Super_Socialist
Actually maybe you missed it... there was a lot of anger towards islam. Also, hey the french... maybe we wouldnt have served the french at any store in america. What about the chinese and japanese? And the irish?
There was also a lot of understanding that islam isnt a religion of violence.
Im Irish, do you expect me to change my opinion or something? Of course they can not serve the irish I also dont like how you assume im some sort of racist just because I like the idea of freedom. I think thats an extremely narrow and disgustingly simplistic world view on your behalf; I suggest you start thinking outside of the little box you give yourself.
It's clear p2rus hasn't read much about moral philosophy or individual rights.[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]1. im asking YOU what right YOU have
2. Are you implying anything the government says is right?
Super_Socialist
1. Well you see... the rights of the constution, and this Civil Rights act, and Supreme Court Decisions... thats a pretty good safety net for my rights.
2. ...Of course not. But does that mean that the government cant be right once in a blue moon?
so basically what you're saying is that everyone has the same morals, and we shouldnt be free to make our own.
then you bring answer number 2, in which I say, "Who decides when the government is actually right?"
Morals are completely relative, and freedom is far more important than social justice could ever hope to be.
We all accept certain shared morals when we accept the contract with society. yes as a society we have shared morals. And when your morals differ with the governments, then society will weigh the two (your "right to bar service based on race" vs. the governments view of morality). You have the freedom to make your own moral codes, but if they diverge sharply from societies ("right to kill whenever you want"/no "right to life") then once you act upon it your going to face socieities moral views.[QUOTE="p2rus"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]the islam community did a pretty decent job of disassociating themselves from terrorism. there was a big thing right after 911 talking about how terrorism isnt exactly islam.
Super_Socialist
Actually maybe you missed it... there was a lot of anger towards islam. Also, hey the french... maybe we wouldnt have served the french at any store in america. What about the chinese and japanese? And the irish?
There was also a lot of understanding that islam isnt a religion of violence.
Im Irish, do you expect me to change my opinion or something? Of course they can not serve the irish I also dont like how you assume im some sort of racist just because I like the idea of freedom. I think thats an extremely narrow and disgustingly simplistic world view on your behalf; I suggest you start thinking outside of the little box you give yourself.
... I never was implying that you were a racist. I was simply posing the question "What would be the consequence of a major turn in opinion against any race under under your "right to discriminate in service based on race."There's no need to lower yourself to petty insults as well, its not very mature of you.
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