Should rich people give their money to poor people ?

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lazerface216

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#651 lazerface216
Member since 2008 • 7564 Posts

of course, no one in this world needs billions of dollars while others are working their asses off (just as hard, if not harder) to make ends meet.

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Nibroc420

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#652 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

You'll always need nurses, and teachers, and cops, and firemen, and plumbers, and waiters, etc. When people say if you work hard you can do it too, that's a lie. Not everyone can do it, not everyone can be a CEO, etc., you NEED the remaining people. So why shouldn't they get a bit more money too? Why should CEOs make millions in bonuses while freezing their employees salaries because of the financial crisis or *insert excuse of the year*? I'm not saying there shouldn't be rich people, not by a long shot, but why do they have to make 1000000 more money than the average worker?

nunovlopes

Believe it or not, but a CEO runs the company. His decisions and direction is what makes or breaks a company. Thats why he makes millions, because he holdingall the risk and liability. Yes their are corrupt CEO's out there, no doubt, just like anything in this world. But to sit here and say they don't deserve it or ask an ignorant question to as why they make more then a person serving food at a resteraunt is perposterous.

Son, I know very well how the corporate world works, I'm in it for over a decade. Of course the CEO runs the company and of course his decisions can make or break a company, and that's why they should make big money, but you know what? You need everyone to keep a company running smoothly. You need everyone to work very hard to keep a company going. The CEO isn't going to magically do that. And the CEO sitting on a pile of money while everyone makes many many many many times less money is not right. And regarding holding the risk and liability, it depends. Look at those CEOs from major financial institutions that collapsed in 2008, that didn't prevented them from leaving with huge bonuses even after all the mess.

They were simply trying to make back the highest % of their original investment. Just because someone works hard, and gets to own a company, and thus makes all the profits off the company (the reason people even make companies) Does NOT give you a reason to complain.

Think you can run a company? Great, go start a business, and show these other CEOs how things are done. Until then, you're just **** because they make more than you, and you're sad you didn't put more effort into life.

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nunovlopes

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#653 nunovlopes
Member since 2009 • 2638 Posts

[QUOTE="RushKing"]CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.Nibroc420
Thats right, they dont. They only had to work 10,000x harder to get into the position they're in. They only had to try hard, and work their butts off in order to get into that position. Apparently that counts for nothing? When you're struggling, your fight is impossible, but when one succeeds it's because they're lazy? How the **** does that make sense?

If you really believe that for being a CEO you need to be the person in the company that worked harder, I have a bridge to sell you. Of course a CEO needs to work hard and has lots of responsibility, but that's just one of many factors. Timing, personality (not everyone is cut out to be a CEO),even luck, lots of things need to come together.

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Wasdie

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#654 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="RushKing"]Isn't ironic how the sociopathic CEOs laying people off while giving themselves raises while hoarding millions they sucked out of the middle and lower class that won't get used, never get called leaches? What's wrong with giving them the same tax rates as everyone else?RushKing
Um because they make millions. There is a difference in hitting someone with 33% of taxes who makes a million compared to someone who makes 40,000. Someone who makes a million is contributing about $300,000 a year, where someone who is making 40,000 is contributing about 6000-8000.

I don't care, if you are making and hoarding that much cash, you are a leach to society regardless. It's only fair to pay the same rates as everyone else does, CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.

You really believe people hoard all of the money they make?

I wish I was so ignorant. The world would be a lot easier to understand through such a narrow and misguided view.

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Wasdie

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#655 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"]CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.nunovlopes

Thats right, they dont. They only had to work 10,000x harder to get into the position they're in. They only had to try hard, and work their butts off in order to get into that position. Apparently that counts for nothing? When you're struggling, your fight is impossible, but when one succeeds it's because they're lazy? How the **** does that make sense?

If you really believe that for being a CEO you need to be the person in the company that worked harder, I have a bridge to sell you. Of course a CEO needs to work hard and has lots of responsibility, but that's just one of many factors. Timing, personality (not everyone is cut out to be a CEO),even luck, lots of things need to come together.

Yeah, and when it all comes together the fortunate person gets to make a lot of money.

Life's not fair. Deal with it. Most of us will never be rich, but we can do a lot to improve our own lives.

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turtlethetaffer

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#656 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

I think they shouldn't be forced to. Taking money is wrong, you can go to jail for it.

Me, if I was rich, would donate alot of money.

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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#657 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts

[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Um because they make millions. There is a difference in hitting someone with 33% of taxes who makes a million compared to someone who makes 40,000. Someone who makes a million is contributing about $300,000 a year, where someone who is making 40,000 is contributing about 6000-8000.Planet_Pluto

I don't care, if you are making and hoarding that much cash, you are a leach to society regardless. It's only fair to pay the same rates as everyone else does, CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.

What a crock.

Presently, my job is spent partially on the computer, partially walking jobsites, and partially in negotiation meetings. Someone peering into my office might think "Wow, he doesn't exert a lot of effort, he doesn't work hard." What the person doesn't see, is that I started out as a file clerk, lugging heavy boxes and construciton materials around, working overnight shifts to gain experience, attending college classes on nights and weekends while working full time, volunteering to do any and all available tasks to gain experience and the confidence/trust of my bosses.

People see a guy in a suit and assume they have it so easy, yet they fail to think about what it takes to get there.

Do you think that everybody that works hard has the same opportunities as anybody who works hard? and are there not people who are successful who did not have to work hard or as hard as some other people who are successful? If you think about it's pretty clear that success is not defined by hard work alone, but by opportunity and ability as well. If not more so. I know people who work hard, but never advance in their jobs, not because they are poor workers, but because they don't flatter people on a social level. Being able to communicate and relate well with others goes miles further in this world than hard work ever will.

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nunovlopes

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#658 nunovlopes
Member since 2009 • 2638 Posts

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Believe it or not, but a CEO runs the company. His decisions and direction is what makes or breaks a company. Thats why he makes millions, because he holdingall the risk and liability. Yes their are corrupt CEO's out there, no doubt, just like anything in this world. But to sit here and say they don't deserve it or ask an ignorant question to as why they make more then a person serving food at a resteraunt is perposterous.

Nibroc420

Son, I know very well how the corporate world works, I'm in it for over a decade. Of course the CEO runs the company and of course his decisions can make or break a company, and that's why they should make big money, but you know what? You need everyone to keep a company running smoothly. You need everyone to work very hard to keep a company going. The CEO isn't going to magically do that. And the CEO sitting on a pile of money while everyone makes many many many many times less money is not right. And regarding holding the risk and liability, it depends. Look at those CEOs from major financial institutions that collapsed in 2008, that didn't prevented them from leaving with huge bonuses even after all the mess.

They were simply trying to make back the highest % of their original investment. Just because someone works hard, and gets to own a company, and thus makes all the profits off the company (the reason people even make companies) Does NOT give you a reason to complain.

Think you can run a company? Great, go start a business, and show these other CEOs how things are done. Until then, you're just **** because they make more than you, and you're sad you didn't put more effort into life.

I too was once a dumb kid. You'll learn.

And like I said in the other post, not everyone can be a CEO, put it in your head. You need other workers as well. Not everyone is cut out to be a CEO too. And I'm not complaining about myself, I'm very happy with where I am both personally and professionally. That doesn't prevent me from stating something I feel is wrong.

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turtlethetaffer

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#659 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

Son, I know very well how the corporate world works, I'm in it for over a decade. Of course the CEO runs the company and of course his decisions can make or break a company, and that's why they should make big money, but you know what? You need everyone to keep a company running smoothly. You need everyone to work very hard to keep a company going. The CEO isn't going to magically do that. And the CEO sitting on a pile of money while everyone makes many many many many times less money is not right. And regarding holding the risk and liability, it depends. Look at those CEOs from major financial institutions that collapsed in 2008, that didn't prevented them from leaving with huge bonuses even after all the mess.

nunovlopes

They were simply trying to make back the highest % of their original investment. Just because someone works hard, and gets to own a company, and thus makes all the profits off the company (the reason people even make companies) Does NOT give you a reason to complain.

Think you can run a company? Great, go start a business, and show these other CEOs how things are done. Until then, you're just **** because they make more than you, and you're sad you didn't put more effort into life.

I too was once a dumb kid. You'll learn.

And like I said in the other post, not everyone can be a CEO, put it in your head. You need other workers as well. Not everyone is cut out to be a CEO too. And I'm not complaining about myself, I'm very happy with where I am both personally and professionally. That doesn't prevent me from stating something I feel is wrong.

A common misconception about rich people is that they didn't earn their money. I tihnk that's just wrong, I mean, sure, there are some poeple who probably didn't, but, more often than not, rich people had to work hard to get where they are.

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#660 nunovlopes
Member since 2009 • 2638 Posts

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Thats right, they dont. They only had to work 10,000x harder to get into the position they're in. They only had to try hard, and work their butts off in order to get into that position. Apparently that counts for nothing? When you're struggling, your fight is impossible, but when one succeeds it's because they're lazy? How the **** does that make sense?Wasdie

If you really believe that for being a CEO you need to be the person in the company that worked harder, I have a bridge to sell you. Of course a CEO needs to work hard and has lots of responsibility, but that's just one of many factors. Timing, personality (not everyone is cut out to be a CEO),even luck, lots of things need to come together.

Yeah, and when it all comes together the fortunate person gets to make a lot of money.

Life's not fair. Deal with it. Most of us will never be rich, but we can do a lot to improve our own lives.

I don't have to "deal" with anything, I'm perfectly happy with my life, but again that doesn't prevent me from speaking about something I feel is wrong.

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Nibroc420

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#661 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"]CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.nunovlopes

Thats right, they dont. They only had to work 10,000x harder to get into the position they're in. They only had to try hard, and work their butts off in order to get into that position. Apparently that counts for nothing? When you're struggling, your fight is impossible, but when one succeeds it's because they're lazy? How the **** does that make sense?

If you really believe that for being a CEO you need to be the person in the company that worked harder, I have a bridge to sell you. Of course a CEO needs to work hard and has lots of responsibility, but that's just one of many factors. Timing, personality (not everyone is cut out to be a CEO),even luck, lots of things need to come together.

That's all great and all. But they have to work hard to even get a shot at being a CEO, they don't just walk out to the street, spin in a circle, and whoever they're pointing at becomes the new CEO... There are required qualifications and experience for such a position. Now this entire thread is full of people going "boohoo, i didn't work hard and go to a good school, i didn't get scholarships or grants because i didn't work hard enough in school. Thus, everyone who did work hard should be taxed more, so more taxes can go to the things i want, so i can have more without paying for it." Tough luck, if you want something, and it costs money, you should work for it, not leech of those who've become successful through their own sweat and blood.
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N30F3N1X

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#662 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

Ludicrous.

There should be less inequality between rich and poor, yes, that doesn't mean rich people should simply hand out their money to poor people.

Plenty of ways in this world to make a living for yourself.

toast_burner

I don't think you understand how money works. You don't make money, you transfer it from one person to another. In order for anyone to get money you have to take money from someone else.

Yeah, I definitely understand how money works, thank you for your assumptions, nothing of what you said is relevant to what I said however.

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Wasdie

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#663 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

If you really believe that for being a CEO you need to be the person in the company that worked harder, I have a bridge to sell you. Of course a CEO needs to work hard and has lots of responsibility, but that's just one of many factors. Timing, personality (not everyone is cut out to be a CEO),even luck, lots of things need to come together.

nunovlopes

Yeah, and when it all comes together the fortunate person gets to make a lot of money.

Life's not fair. Deal with it. Most of us will never be rich, but we can do a lot to improve our own lives.

I don't have to "deal" with anything, I'm perfectly happy with my life, but again that doesn't prevent me from speaking about something I feel is wrong.

I guess that wasn't directed at you, but to the people who want the rich to give their money away.

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StRaItJaCkEt36

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#664 StRaItJaCkEt36
Member since 2011 • 551 Posts

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Thats right, they dont. They only had to work 10,000x harder to get into the position they're in. They only had to try hard, and work their butts off in order to get into that position. Apparently that counts for nothing? When you're struggling, your fight is impossible, but when one succeeds it's because they're lazy? How the **** does that make sense?Nibroc420

If you really believe that for being a CEO you need to be the person in the company that worked harder, I have a bridge to sell you. Of course a CEO needs to work hard and has lots of responsibility, but that's just one of many factors. Timing, personality (not everyone is cut out to be a CEO),even luck, lots of things need to come together.

That's all great and all. But they have to work hard to even get a shot at being a CEO, they don't just walk out to the street, spin in a circle, and whoever they're pointing at becomes the new CEO... There are required qualifications and experience for such a position. Now this entire thread is full of people going "boohoo, i didn't work hard and go to a good school, i didn't get scholarships or grants because i didn't work hard enough in school. Thus, everyone who did work hard should be taxed more, so more taxes can go to the things i want, so i can have more without paying for it." Tough luck, if you want something, and it costs money, you should work for it, not leech of those who've become successful through their own sweat and blood.

don't you believe that competition produces better results for society? In other words. You want opportunity to be limited because the best will rise to the top while the lowly will fall behind. That is what you're advocating. So hard work alone, will never be enough, because opportunity is limited to promote competition. Should these people be left to suffer because they are inept and unable to compete? They should just exist on the sidelines out of the able peoples way. This is not a productive model for society and guarentees alienation, resentment, and inefficent production scale.

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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#665 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

Ludicrous.

There should be less inequality between rich and poor, yes, that doesn't mean rich people should simply hand out their money to poor people.

Plenty of ways in this world to make a living for yourself.

N30F3N1X

I don't think you understand how money works. You don't make money, you transfer it from one person to another. In order for anyone to get money you have to take money from someone else.

Yeah, I definitely understand how money works, thank you for your assumptions, nothing of what you said is relevant to what I said however.

So if every one starts holding on to all their money, where exactly is money going to come from? You make it sound like people can just get a job from thin air and their employer just magics up them some money.

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Nibroc420

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#666 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

If you really believe that for being a CEO you need to be the person in the company that worked harder, I have a bridge to sell you. Of course a CEO needs to work hard and has lots of responsibility, but that's just one of many factors. Timing, personality (not everyone is cut out to be a CEO),even luck, lots of things need to come together.

StRaItJaCkEt36

That's all great and all. But they have to work hard to even get a shot at being a CEO, they don't just walk out to the street, spin in a circle, and whoever they're pointing at becomes the new CEO... There are required qualifications and experience for such a position. Now this entire thread is full of people going "boohoo, i didn't work hard and go to a good school, i didn't get scholarships or grants because i didn't work hard enough in school. Thus, everyone who did work hard should be taxed more, so more taxes can go to the things i want, so i can have more without paying for it." Tough luck, if you want something, and it costs money, you should work for it, not leech of those who've become successful through their own sweat and blood.

don't you believe that competition produces better results for society? In other words. You want opportunity to be limited because the best will rise to the top while the lowly will fall behind. That is what you're advocating. So hard work alone, will never be enough, because opportunity is limited to promote competition. Should these people be left to suffer because they are inept and unable to compete? They should just exist on the sidelines out of the able peoples way. This is not a productive model for society and guarentees alienation, resentment, and inefficent production scale.

Rich =/= opportunity.
Poor =/= lack of opportunity.
Rich =/= smart enough to succeed at starting a company.
Poor =/= too dumb to start a company.

All I'm advocating is that if you want that super shiny car, you should pay for it. You should pay for the gas, the insurance, and all the wear and tear on the car, out of your pocket. If you want something, pay for it. If it's too expensive, get a better paying job, or save. If you're unable to live on your current wages, find a way to live within your means, or get a new job.

Don't sit there **** because people who either invented something cool and got rich off it, or because the others who worked VERY hard to get where they are, are getting rich because they're able to get the jobs you cant. CEOs require experience, they worked very hard to get into those positions, meaning school, many hours of experience. Hours you're currently spending complaining about the unfix-able situation, rather than improving yourself so you can improve your chances in the world.

Just because someone is rich, doesn't mean they're smart enough to use those riches to improve their quality of life, often times we read of people who inherit tens of millions of dollars, only to blow it away on drugs/parties. Other times we hear stories of how poor people worked hard for years and years and finally catch a break and end up millionaires.

See, in reality, it's not the CEO's that dont do any work, it's the ones complaining because they're not making that kind of money. And they're not making that kind of money because they dont give a ****, or enough of one to actually work hard in an attempt to succeed.

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xscrapzx

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#667 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="RushKing"]Isn't ironic how the sociopathic CEOs laying people off while giving themselves raises while hoarding millions they sucked out of the middle and lower class that won't get used, never get called leaches? What's wrong with giving them the same tax rates as everyone else?RushKing
Um because they make millions. There is a difference in hitting someone with 33% of taxes who makes a million compared to someone who makes 40,000. Someone who makes a million is contributing about $300,000 a year, where someone who is making 40,000 is contributing about 6000-8000.

I don't care, if you are making and hoarding that much cash, you are a leach to society regardless. It's only fair to pay the same rates as everyone else does, CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.

Then you have absolutely no clue what a CEO does, so please just stop.
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xscrapzx

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#668 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]I don't think you understand how money works. You don't make money, you transfer it from one person to another. In order for anyone to get money you have to take money from someone else.

toast_burner

Yeah, I definitely understand how money works, thank you for your assumptions, nothing of what you said is relevant to what I said however.

So if every one starts holding on to all their money, where exactly is money going to come from? You make it sound like people can just get a job from thin air and their employer just magics up them some money.

What are you talking about? Just because people save money does not necessarily mean they are not spending it. They have to spend in order to get the proper needs for one's self. You went from one extreme to another, I would bet that even the tighest people in the world don't save every dime.

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N30F3N1X

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#669 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

So if every one starts holding on to all their money, where exactly is money going to come from? You make it sound like people can just get a job from thin air and their employer just magics up them some money.

toast_burner

Read Stephen Covey's 7 habits and ask yourself how many "poor" people you know that follow those habits.

Opportunities come eventually. You just have to recognize them. I refuse to believe somebody had no opportunities all his life long.

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RushKing

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#670 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Um because they make millions. There is a difference in hitting someone with 33% of taxes who makes a million compared to someone who makes 40,000. Someone who makes a million is contributing about $300,000 a year, where someone who is making 40,000 is contributing about 6000-8000.xscrapzx
I don't care, if you are making and hoarding that much cash, you are a leach to society regardless. It's only fair to pay the same rates as everyone else does, CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.

Then you have absolutely no clue what a CEO does, so please just stop.

Yes I do, most of them produce sweat shops overseas while hoarding in all the cash, crippling our economy. Few are hiring amaricans anymore. Because without enough regulations they can $hit over everyone else. They are the true leaches in society.
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Nibroc420

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#671 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="RushKing"] I don't care, if you are making and hoarding that much cash, you are a leach to society regardless. It's only fair to pay the same rates as everyone else does, CEOs do not work 10x as hard as other people.RushKing
Then you have absolutely no clue what a CEO does, so please just stop.

Yes I do, most of them produce sweat shops overseas while hoarding in all the cash, crippling our economy. Few are hiring amaricans anymore. Because without enough regulations they can $hit over everyone else. They are the true leaches in society.

Nice generalization. Thanks for showing everyone how educated you are on the topic, i doubt anyone else will bother replying to such a well founded assertion :roll:
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RushKing

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#672 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Then you have absolutely no clue what a CEO does, so please just stop.

Yes I do, most of them produce sweat shops overseas while hoarding in all the cash, crippling our economy. Few are hiring amaricans anymore. Because without enough regulations they can $hit over everyone else. They are the true leaches in society.

Nice generalization. Thanks for showing everyone how educated you are on the topic, i doubt anyone else will bother replying to such a well founded assertion :roll:

Steve Jobs never gave a f*** about you. People who ride of the innovations and backs of others annoy the f*** out of me. Go ahead and keep defending the piggies dude.
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Nibroc420

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#673 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"] Yes I do, most of them produce sweat shops overseas while hoarding in all the cash, crippling our economy. Few are hiring amaricans anymore. Because without enough regulations they can $hit over everyone else. They are the true leaches in society.

Nice generalization. Thanks for showing everyone how educated you are on the topic, i doubt anyone else will bother replying to such a well founded assertion :roll:

Steve Jobs never gave a f*** about you. People who ride of the innovations and backs of others annoy the f*** out of me. Go ahead and keep defending the piggies dude.

I dont care about him. What i can say is that he worked hard, and got rich off his work. For someone else to say "oh, well, he should give the government 50% of his profits, and those profits should go to my child's education/healthcare" sickens me, f**king leaches on society. Just drop welfare, see who gets jobs and who doesn't. Those who choose to not work should not get rewarded.
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#674 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Nice generalization. Thanks for showing everyone how educated you are on the topic, i doubt anyone else will bother replying to such a well founded assertion :roll:

Steve Jobs never gave a f*** about you. People who ride of the innovations and backs of others annoy the f*** out of me. Go ahead and keep defending the piggies dude.

I dont care about him. What i can say is that he worked hard, and got rich off his work. For someone else to say "oh, well, he should give the government 50% of his profits, and those profits should go to my child's education/healthcare" sickens me, f**king leaches on society. Just drop welfare, see who gets jobs and who doesn't. Those who choose to not work should not get rewarded.

Employment isn't all about choice dude.
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Nibroc420

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#675 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"] Steve Jobs never gave a f*** about you. People who ride of the innovations and backs of others annoy the f*** out of me. Go ahead and keep defending the piggies dude.

I dont care about him. What i can say is that he worked hard, and got rich off his work. For someone else to say "oh, well, he should give the government 50% of his profits, and those profits should go to my child's education/healthcare" sickens me, f**king leaches on society. Just drop welfare, see who gets jobs and who doesn't. Those who choose to not work should not get rewarded.

Employment isn't all about choice dude.

It's 50/50 choice/effort. Someone might WANT a job, but if they put no effort into finding one, or making themselves hire-able, they're obviously not going to get one. If you want a job, make yourself useful, going into an interview for a high paying job saying "Hey, I've got no past experience, and no schooling. Also, I'm currently unemployed" Isn't a good start. Likewise, sitting on your *** collecting welfare isn't going to result in phone calls from potential employers.
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#676 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] I dont care about him. What i can say is that he worked hard, and got rich off his work. For someone else to say "oh, well, he should give the government 50% of his profits, and those profits should go to my child's education/healthcare" sickens me, f**king leaches on society. Just drop welfare, see who gets jobs and who doesn't. Those who choose to not work should not get rewarded.

Employment isn't all about choice dude.

It's 50/50 choice/effort. Someone might WANT a job, but if they put no effort into finding one, or making themselves hire-able, they're obviously not going to get one. If you want a job, make yourself useful, going into an interview for a high paying job saying "Hey, I've got no past experience, and no schooling. Also, I'm currently unemployed" Isn't a good start. Likewise, sitting on your *** collecting welfare isn't going to result in phone calls from potential employers.

But effort can not guarantee you a job.
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#677 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"] Employment isn't all about choice dude.

It's 50/50 choice/effort. Someone might WANT a job, but if they put no effort into finding one, or making themselves hire-able, they're obviously not going to get one. If you want a job, make yourself useful, going into an interview for a high paying job saying "Hey, I've got no past experience, and no schooling. Also, I'm currently unemployed" Isn't a good start. Likewise, sitting on your *** collecting welfare isn't going to result in phone calls from potential employers.

But effort can not guarantee you a job.

There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. Haven't you heard that? If one were to put effort into their schooling, they'd be better educated. Using this extra brainpower, they could pick a degree that isn't a definite waste of time/money (yay liberal arts) and thus increase their chances of finding a better job. If someone chooses to simply sit around eating chips, paid for via the welfare checks they receive for doing nothing. Well, they're they've made the choice to put no effort into improving their quality of life... It's rather simple.
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#678 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
People who think all it takes is effort to succeed for everyone is completely delusional and have watched too many Disney World movies. There are a lot of factors surrounding what makes a person successful and, while effort is one of them, it is in no way enough. You need luck, you need opportunities, you need good people surrounding, encouraging and helping you, you need a stable society, you need easy access to food/clothing/shelter, you need your basic necessities fulfilled, etc. People who get from the bottom to the top with effort alone are the small minority.
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#679 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

People who get from the bottom to the top with effort alone are the small minority.kuraimen

Many simply make the choice to not put in the effort.
Many who put in effort might not make it to the top, but they certainly make it further up than those who dont try.

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#680 theSteeeeels
Member since 2011 • 520 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. Haven't you heard that? If one were to put effort into their schooling, they'd be better educated. Using this extra brainpower, they could pick a degree that isn't a definite waste of time/money (yay liberal arts) and thus increase their chances of finding a better job. If someone chooses to simply sit around eating chips, paid for via the welfare checks they receive for doing nothing. Well, they're they've made the choice to put no effort into improving their quality of life... It's rather simple.

i forgot that everyone, everwhere in the world gets the same exact same opportunites as each other.
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#681 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] It's 50/50 choice/effort. Someone might WANT a job, but if they put no effort into finding one, or making themselves hire-able, they're obviously not going to get one. If you want a job, make yourself useful, going into an interview for a high paying job saying "Hey, I've got no past experience, and no schooling. Also, I'm currently unemployed" Isn't a good start. Likewise, sitting on your *** collecting welfare isn't going to result in phone calls from potential employers.

But effort can not guarantee you a job.

There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. Haven't you heard that? If one were to put effort into their schooling, they'd be better educated. Using this extra brainpower, they could pick a degree that isn't a definite waste of time/money (yay liberal arts) and thus increase their chances of finding a better job. If someone chooses to simply sit around eating chips, paid for via the welfare checks they receive for doing nothing. Well, they're they've made the choice to put no effort into improving their quality of life... It's rather simple.

Since everyone on welfare wants to sit around and eat chips their whole life. :roll: No one has a 100% chance in this economy. Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.
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#682 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="theSteeeeels"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"]There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. Haven't you heard that? If one were to put effort into their schooling, they'd be better educated. Using this extra brainpower, they could pick a degree that isn't a definite waste of time/money (yay liberal arts) and thus increase their chances of finding a better job. If someone chooses to simply sit around eating chips, paid for via the welfare checks they receive for doing nothing. Well, they're they've made the choice to put no effort into improving their quality of life... It's rather simple.

i forgot that everyone, everwhere in the world gets the same exact same opportunites as each other.

It's all relative. Hard working individuals in Ethiopia might not have the chance to become a CEO at an American company, however they'll always make it further than those who do nothing.
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#683 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

Since everyone on welfare wants to sit around and eat chips their whole life. :roll:RushKing

Well they most certainly arent out there attempting to get a job, or trying to go back to school.

No one has a 100% chance in this economy. Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.RushKing

No-one EVER has a 100% chance of anything, ever, except for being taxed, and their eventual death.
People who work hard, put effort into improving themselves and their abilities, and put effort into finding a job, find jobs.
Those who half-ass finding a job, might find a job, hopefully they know people.

Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.RushKing

More idiotic, unfounded assertions by Rushking, where did you pull this little factoid out of?

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#684 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]People who get from the bottom to the top with effort alone are the small minority.Nibroc420

Many simply make the choice to not put in the effort.
Many who put in effort might not make it to the top, but they certainly make it further up than those who dont try.

Well in some cases that can be true but for some people that have to struggle even to eat one day in Africa for example I don't see how effort would make much difference. They will probably end up dead by starvation or disease anyways. You need at least some minimum necessities fulfilled for you to focus on succeeding. If you have to spend lots of time trying to get what to eat or looking for shelter or suffering from disease then you won't have time for much else. That's why social programs are important, if society can at least guarantee that the person have their basic needs fulfilled they will have much more chance to do something for themselves and for society in general.

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#685 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

Well they most certainly arent out there attempting to get a job, or trying to go back to school.

[QUOTE="RushKing"]No one has a 100% chance in this economy. Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.Nibroc420

No-one EVER has a 100% chance of anything, ever, except for being taxed, and their eventual death.
People who work hard, put effort into improving themselves and their abilities, and put effort into finding a job, find jobs.
Those who half-ass finding a job, might find a job, hopefully they know people.

Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.RushKing

More idiotic, unfounded assertions by Rushking, where did you pull this little factoid out of?

So if you go to uni and pass but struggle to get a job due to low demand for your profession, it's completely your own fault?

There are homeless people out there with university degrees you know, they aren't all just there because they're lazy.

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theSteeeeels

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#686 theSteeeeels
Member since 2011 • 520 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="theSteeeeels"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"]There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. Haven't you heard that? If one were to put effort into their schooling, they'd be better educated. Using this extra brainpower, they could pick a degree that isn't a definite waste of time/money (yay liberal arts) and thus increase their chances of finding a better job. If someone chooses to simply sit around eating chips, paid for via the welfare checks they receive for doing nothing. Well, they're they've made the choice to put no effort into improving their quality of life... It's rather simple.

i forgot that everyone, everwhere in the world gets the same exact same opportunites as each other.

It's all relative. Hard working individuals in Ethiopia might not have the chance to become a CEO at an American company, however they'll always make it further than those who do nothing.

by what? eating 5 grains of rice more than his starving friend? funny how you say its all about effort.... then point out that circumstances are actually accountable. no, a kid in africa wont become a CEO. just like a kid in living in an american ghetto wont either. why? because of circumstance. and what about people who are dumb. literally born stupid. they put in 100%, but sadly just cannot pass exams or take on responsible jobs. and then people who are born with talents. she was born beautiful? lets pay her 100k to be a model. born singer? sing a few songs and get picked up by a record label. effort doesnt equal success. thats just absurd and so oversimplified.
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#687 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

There are homeless people out there with university degrees you know, they aren't all just there because they're lazy.

toast_burner

Great, maybe when they have kids they'll educate them on how having a masters in 11th century English literature isn't going to be helpful in too many fields.

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#688 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

Well they most certainly arent out there attempting to get a job, or trying to go back to school.

[QUOTE="RushKing"]No one has a 100% chance in this economy. Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.Nibroc420

No-one EVER has a 100% chance of anything, ever, except for being taxed, and their eventual death.

People who work hard, put effort into improving themselves and their abilities, and put effort into finding a job, find jobs.

No guarantee


Those who half-ass finding a job, might find a job, hopefully they know people.

Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.RushKing

More idiotic, unfounded assertions by Rushking, where did you pull this little factoid out of?

My experience

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#689 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.

My experience

RushKing

Your experience obviously isn't much since the decision of who gets hired or not usually comes down to experience.

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#690 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

by what? eating 5 grains of rice more than his starving friend? funny how you say its all about effort.... then point out that circumstances are actually accountable. theSteeeeels

/facepalm. Lets stay within the realm of sane?

no, a kid in africa wont become a CEO. just like a kid in living in an american ghetto wont either. why? because of circumstance.theSteeeeels

Kids in the ghetto can get rich, if they put the effort into learning what they're being taught, they stay away from drugs and gangs.
"But, that's easier said than done"
Hense the ****ing effort part, either try in life or dont, but dont cry because you chose a path that ruined your future.

and what about people who are dumb. literally born stupid. they put in 100%, but sadly just cannot pass exams or take on responsible jobs. and then people who are born with talents. she was born beautiful? lets pay her 100k to be a model. born singer? sing a few songs and get picked up by a record label. effort doesnt equal success. thats just absurd and so oversimplified.theSteeeeels

Dumb = unable to speak, and yes, they can still be quite successful.
If they're simply not very inteliegent, well thats what public schooling is for right?

Someone decides to make themselves look pretty, with the right makeup/hair, or through years of pracice learn to sing. And you're mad, that's fine, they're naturally talented/pretty, and people like that. Lucky them. However even if you're the most beautiful thing alive, that wont last long without a bit of effort, nor will it make you any money unless you make that choice.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#691 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
Sure is a lot of victim blaming ITT
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#692 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

Most employers these days only care about social fluff rather than knowledge and experience.

My experience

airshocker

Your experience obviously isn't much since the decision of who gets hired or not usually comes down to experience.

Most wont hire you if you don't lie, smile and make eye contact. Only internships can show experience, interviews are useless social fluff. Unless your hiring a sales person.

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#693 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
Sure is a lot of victim blaming ITT-Sun_Tzu-
It's not like rape-victim blaming. It's the "I'm on welfare, i cant find a job, i dont look for jobs, poor me" mentality that i blame.
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#694 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Sure is a lot of victim blaming ITTNibroc420
It's not like rape-victim blaming. It's the "I'm on welfare, i cant find a job, i dont look for jobs, poor me" mentality that i blame.

You have quite the imagination.
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#695 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Sure is a lot of victim blaming ITT-Sun_Tzu-
It's not like rape-victim blaming. It's the "I'm on welfare, i cant find a job, i dont look for jobs, poor me" mentality that i blame.

You have quite the imagination.

I merely despite those who feel entitled to get something for nothing. Remember folks, that 99% who want to tax the top 1% so they can have more things, also contains several hundred thousand people who pay no income tax, and get free money from the government.
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#696 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] It's not like rape-victim blaming. It's the "I'm on welfare, i cant find a job, i dont look for jobs, poor me" mentality that i blame.

You have quite the imagination.

I merely despite those who feel entitled to get something for nothing. Remember folks, that 99% who want to tax the top 1% so they can have more things, also contains several hundred thousand people who pay no income tax, and get free money from the government.

not paying income tax =/= not paying taxes
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#697 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Most wont hire you if you don't lie, smile and make eye contact. Only internships can show experience, interviews are useless social fluff. Unless your hiring a sales person.

RushKing

I've never had to lie in an interview. I've also never had to smile unless someone actually elicited that type of response from me. Making eye contact shows you are listening.

An internship isn't the only thing that shows experience. A resume and the way you answer job-related questions does as well.

Interviews will never go away. Not sure why you're complaining about them.

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#698 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] You have quite the imagination.

I merely despite those who feel entitled to get something for nothing. Remember folks, that 99% who want to tax the top 1% so they can have more things, also contains several hundred thousand people who pay no income tax, and get free money from the government.

not paying income tax =/= not paying taxes

not paying income tax = paying less tax.
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#699 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

Most wont hire you if you don't lie, smile and make eye contact. Only internships can show experience, interviews are useless social fluff. Unless your hiring a sales person.

airshocker

I've never had to lie in an interview. I've also never had to smile unless someone actually elicited that type of response from me. Making eye contact shows you are listening.

An internship isn't the only thing that shows experience. A resume and the way you answer job-related questions does as well.

Interviews will never go away. Not sure why you're complaining about them.

Not if your someone with aspergers; it induces anxiety and distracts you from the auditory input. I listen better and feel more comfortable when I'm not making eye contact.

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#700 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

Most wont hire you if you don't lie, smile and make eye contact. Only internships can show experience, interviews are useless social fluff. Unless your hiring a sales person.

RushKing

I've never had to lie in an interview. I've also never had to smile unless someone actually elicited that type of response from me. Making eye contact shows you are listening.

An internship isn't the only thing that shows experience. A resume and the way you answer job-related questions does as well.

Interviews will never go away. Not sure why you're complaining about them.

Not if your someone with aspergers; it induces anxiety and distracts you from the auditory input. I listen better and feel more comfortable when I'm not making eye contact.

Go see a doctor, and get medication... Next you'll be posting about how it's hard for a schizo who's off his meds to get through an interview and land a job. Again, effort, choices. Have some, pick the right ones, and turn your life in a positive direction.