Should we prosecute former Nazi soldiers?

What's your opinion on sentencing 75-85+ year old men for being former Nazi military?

I was watching something on TV today about some man who was forced to join the Nazi military at age 17/18; served till the end of the war and escaped to the U.S after the war. Well he's been here illegally for 50 years and hasn't been convicted of any crimes, so obviously the man shows he can function in a society yet the Supreme court is currently deciding whether to grant him citizenship or sentense him to jail.

I personally think if anything the majority of Nazi soldiers that are still alive probably recognize the horror they administered on other; and if not, it's not like they're going to live that much longer so why even bother with sentencing them to jail?

I'd like to throw out there it's not like the majority of the soldiers had the ability to simply flee; it's the equivlent of the U.S draft, though more barbaric you jeopardize your entire family if you defected.

*Also while isn't Pope Benedict XVI in prison then.

Here seems a familiar story; could even be it.

If they were involved or masterminded war crimes than yes. Otherwise they were not much different than soliders in any other army during the war except their side lost.

Attacking religion OT?

All of you are atheist militants.

If they were involved or masterminded war crimes than yes.

Strakha

Attacking religion OT?

All of you are atheist militants.

Jebus213

What does this have to do with religion? Jews weren't the only ones affected by genocide.

I don't think so. I don't know for certain, but I don't think many of them had a choice. I suppose if they are still doing their 'Hail Hitlers' however, we should then think about it. This reminded me of an It's Always Sunny episode. Hilarious!

Let israel jews decide thier future

What does this have to do with religion? Jews weren't the only ones affected by genocide.

Fightingfan

Nothing, I was just being Shadowmosses.

I don't think so. I don't know for certain, but I don't think many of them had a choice. I suppose if they are still doing their 'Hail Hitlers' however, we should then think about it. This reminded me of an It's Always Sunny episode. Hilarious!

cmpepper23

I think most would choose self-preservation; and a very selective few would use MLK/Gandhi ideology against Hitler Fightingfan

Yeah I form my views from my grandfather who fought these people. He had a lot of understanding and regret for the Italian, German and Japanese soldiers he killed during the conflict as well as those who were captured and he was able to interact with. They were not given the same information from their media and other sources so in their mind they were doing the right thing and defending their nation. That said, the same does not go for those involved in war crimes. No amount of propaganda should be enough for you not to know that killing unarmed women or children is wrong.

No amount of propaganda should be enough for you not to know that killing unarmed women or children is wrong.

Strakha

True, but just to throw this out there.

Why wasn't Truman, Bush Sr, or Obama sentence to death like Hussein then?

Truman threw the bomb on innocent people.

Bush Sr and the gulf war; I believe he's been quoting on saying "it was the moral thing to do" and let me remind you the Gulf war was started simply because Kuwait stole oil from Iraq in 1990.

Obama gave the O.K in Libya without congressional approval.

not every German in their military during world war 2 was a Nazi...

[QUOTE="Strakha"]No amount of propaganda should be enough for you not to know that killing unarmed women or children is wrong.

Fightingfan

True, but just to throw this out there.

Why wasn't Truman, Bush Sr, or Obama sentence to death like Hussein then?

Truman threw the bomb on innocent people.

Bush Sr and the gulf war; I believe he's been quoting on saying "it was the moral thing to do" and let me remind you the Gulf war was started simply because Kuwait stole oil from Iraq in 1990.

Obama gave the O.K in Libya without congressional approval.

In truth I think if they had lost their respective wars it's likely they would have been charged with war crimes. I'm not going to sit in judgement of these actions as there are arguments that suggest they saved more lives than were lost but I certainly don't envy those who made these decisions. They have to live with it and it would certainly play on their mind if they made the right choice or not.

not every German in their military during world war 2 was a Nazi...

Cloud_Insurance

True, but just to throw this out there.

Why wasn't Truman, Bush Sr, or Obama sentence to death like Hussein then?

Truman threw the bomb on innocent people.

Bush Sr and the gulf war; I believe he's been quoting on saying "it was the moral thing to do" and let me remind you the Gulf war was started simply because Kuwait stole oil from Iraq in 1990.

Obama gave the O.K in Libya without congressional approval.

Fightingfan

I can't even bother with this

not every German in their military during world war 2 was a Nazi...

Cloud_Insurance

Explain? My understanding is if you where a solider between the reign of the third Reich 1933-1945 you were part of the Wehrmacht; which is Nazi military.

Hitler is your commander in chief/Patron, meaning you obey his commands similar to today's president, though presidents can't wage war, that's congress so probably bad example.

[QUOTE="Cloud_Insurance"]

not every German in their military during world war 2 was a Nazi...

Fightingfan

Explain? My understanding is if you where a solider between the reign of the third Reich 1933-1945 you were part of the Wehrmacht; which is Nazi military.

Hitler is your commander in chief/Patron, meaning you obey his commands similar to today's president, though presidents can't wage war, that's congress so probably bad example.

I think you are confusing the wehrmacht with the SS. Initially you weren't even allowed into the Wehrmacht if you had a political affiliation.

though presidents can't wage war, that's congress so probably bad example.Fightingfan

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]

[QUOTE="Cloud_Insurance"]

not every German in their military during world war 2 was a Nazi...

Cloud_Insurance

Explain? My understanding is if you where a solider between the reign of the third Reich 1933-1945 you were part of the Wehrmacht; which is Nazi military.

Hitler is your commander in chief/Patron, meaning you obey his commands similar to today's president, though presidents can't wage war, that's congress so probably bad example.

I think you are confusing the wehrmacht with the SS. Initially you weren't even allowed into the Wehrmacht if you had a political affiliation.

Though interesting you say "initially you weren't allowed into wehrmachat if you had a political affliction" because bother are still govern by Hitler(nazi party), though we're straying too far; my stance still stands.

I don't think we should prosecute SS soldiers like the one in the link, one who shows he can live in a productive societ, and obviously choice self-preservation than the preservation of others.

No, we shouldn't. As someone above me said, they were just ordinary soldiers, except their side lost. And the whole 'they're not gonna live much longer anyway' argument is so wrong I can barely comprehend it.

Also about Pope Benedict. What happened to his cousin sounds a lot more like what many of his detractors would advocate than what he would advocate. Not all Germans were Nazis but remnants of Nazi ideology are still prevalent today. It's not the general group of people linked by nationality who must be destroyed. It's the ideology itself regardless of who holds the ideology or how it has been rebranded or changed to be more tasteful to some.

Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youthas membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939[10]but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[11] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and murdered during the Action T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#cite_note-12

An interesting question. Even more interesting was that the US had no qualms gathering Nazi scientists and intelligence after the war. Just a little note.

You can't be brainwashed to kill unarmed combatants unless you are so completely devoted to an ideology, thus guilty of war crimes. That said, judging from what I just read, he was just a Nazi guard for a concentration camp. In fact, there's nothing to suggest he actually killed anyone in those camps.

Truth is, I'm being sympathic. I might have a different tone if he was a Turkish guard. I don't see any reason for him to be deported. It was a terrible time back then, many soldiers from both sides suffered greatly.

Lots of Germans were conscripted into the war...

not every German in their military during world war 2 was a Nazi...

Cloud_Insurance

Yes.

Of course, on a case by case basis.

Also, lots of people are thinking that everyone was just an ordinary soldier...like interchangeable lego blocks. That is not the case.

For instance, Waffen SS Totenkampf (Death's Head) Division members were hand picked. They were fanatics by definition. They also set up and ran the concentration camp business in the first place and remained closely affiliated with the camp structure throughout the war. They were not ordinary joes in that sense.

No doubt some people are exceptions, but if you were closely linked with the actual industry of mass murder then you should be investigated and the chips should fall on a case by case basis.

No...

Many soldiers served because there wasn't a choice. And they're in their 80s and 90s now...why bother? Those who perpetrated the real crimes, the officers and government officials, etc. Are all dead and already sentenced

Its seems like its not about him being a nazi. He is a illegal immigrant. I would grant him citizenship though since he is so old and been in America for so long.

An interesting question. Even more interesting was that the US had no qualms gathering Nazi scientists and intelligence after the war. Just a little note.

leviathan91

Most of those scientists left Germany before the war even started because they were Jewish and lost their rights to teach and whatnot because of Hitler's social policies.

I think it depends. If they are average soldiers with no evidence of war crimes than I say leave them alone. If they are SS operatives or men who have committed atrocities I say prosecute.

I think in the case of this guy he should be left alone about being a former Nazi solider. However, I think he should be administered a citizenship test to determine if he stays of not.

Pope Benedict XVI didn't do any fighting when he was in the German Army (Wehrmacht), in fact he never even learned how to shoot a gun (his trigger finger got infected so he couldn't be trained).

I don't see the point. Just leave them be. It would be a waste of time and resources.

No, we shouldn't. Everyone does f*cked up things during wartime, if Nazi germany had won, they would be arresting former American soldiers. It would be the same thing, reversed. They are 85 year old men who fought for their country like 65 years ago... they should not be arrested.

What's your opinion on sentencing 75-85+ year old men for being former Nazi military?

I was watching something on TV today about some man who was forced to join the Nazi military at age 17/18; served till the end of the war and escaped to the U.S after the war. Well he's been here illegally for 50 years and hasn't been convicted of any crimes, so obviously the man shows he can function in a society yet the Supreme court is currently deciding whether to grant him citizenship or sentense him to jail.

I personally think if anything the majority of Nazi soldiers that are still alive probably recognize the horror they administered on other; and if not, it's not like they're going to live that much longer so why even bother with sentencing them to jail?

I'd like to throw out there it's not like the majority of the soldiers had the ability to simply flee; it's the equivlent of the U.S draft, though more barbaric you jeopardize your entire family if you defected.

*Also while isn't Pope Benedict XVI in prison then.

Here seems a familiar story; could even be it.

Fightingfan

Do you really think anyone wants to waste the time and effort putting an 80+ year old person in jail for something they may have done 65 years ago?

If his been living illegally for 50 years it raises the question as to why he was so afraid of requesting citizenship. Perhaps he is hiding something. If he isn't and his just a regular soldier then of course he shouldn't be jailed for having been a Nazi and I'm not really sure he should be punished for having lived illegally if his elderly, on compassionate grounds.

Otherwise I have no problem with prosecuting those Nazi's who orchestrated mass murder.

No, we shouldn't. Everyone does f*cked up things during wartime, if Nazi germany had won, they would be arresting former American soldiers. It would be the same thing, reversed. They are 85 year old men who fought for their country like 65 years ago... they should not be arrested.

Shmiity