so atheists............

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]And you can believe that a creator is needed. That doesnt make it true.

Two things dont have to be the same in order for something to apply for both of them. If you think that this specific thing doesnt apply to both of those things then show why it doesnt apply. Simply because those two things have differences doesnt automatically mean that no things apply to both. In this case the lack of need for a creator.

Teenaged

Atheism =/= Naturalism as I explained in my very first post in this thread.

You dont need science to theorise that a creator isnt needed for the existence of the supernatural world. One can just use their perception. A creator isnt necessarily needed. From which point that leaves room for anyone to believe that a creator indeed isnt needed and doesnt exist for the supernatural.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Then doesn't that mean that something must have created God?

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] NAturalism is the Belief in the Natural world, people use Science etc..to Explain it. In the Supernatural world Science doesn't apply, and you have no Reason to believe a Creator wasn't involved. If it's Supernatural something Supernatural must have Created it. Snipes_2

Atheism =/= Naturalism as I explained in my very first post in this thread.

You dont need science to theorise that a creator isnt needed for the existence of the supernatural world. One can just use their perception. A creator isnt necessarily needed. From which point that leaves room for anyone to believe that a creator indeed isnt needed and doesnt exist for the supernatural.

Naturalism isnt the only reason why someone wouldnt think a creator is needed for the natural world. It is one of the most prominent yes because it offers for a counter argument (isnt that Occams Razor? idk) but you can doubt the existence of a creator merely because it isnt the only possible answer and is far from proven, with or without naturalistic means (science).

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] No, It doesn't. Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] But you just said that if something is supernatural than something must have created it. God is supernatural, therefore something must have created God.-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I was talking in the Regards of a Soul.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I was talking in the Regards of a Soul.

Snipes_2

He still never said there wasn't a God, Naturalism was Condemned by Pope Pius. Buddhism is not Atheistic. "Buddhism is not about either believing or not believing in God or gods. Rather, the historical Buddha taught that believing in gods was not useful for those seeking to realize enlightenment. In other words, God is unnecessary in Buddhism. For this reason, Buddhism is more accurately called nontheistic than atheistic" http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/buddhaatheism.htm

Snipes_2

Why are we bringing up Naturalism if the Argument is About Atheism then? Snipes_2

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I was talking in the Regards of a Soul.

Snipes_2

oh please snipes save your breathe , you know these anguments lead nowhere right ??

another state of conciousness

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] But you generalized your argument to the point where you encompassed all that is supernatural. If it is not necessarily true that God, a supernatural entity, must be created by another supernatural entity, then at the same time it is also not necessarily true that a soul, which is also a supernatural entity, must be created by another supernatural entity. -Sun_Tzu-

Souls are different than an All Knowing Infinite Being.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] But you generalized your argument to the point where you encompassed all that is supernatural. If it is not necessarily true that God, a supernatural entity, must be created by another supernatural entity, then at the same time it is also not necessarily true that a soul, which is also a supernatural entity, must be created by another supernatural entity. Teenaged

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]He still never said there wasn't a God, Naturalism was Condemned by Pope Pius. Buddhism is not Atheistic. "Buddhism is not about either believing or not believing in God or gods. Rather, the historical Buddha taught that believing in gods was not useful for those seeking to realize enlightenment. In other words, God is unnecessary in Buddhism. For this reason, Buddhism is more accurately called nontheistic than atheistic" http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/buddhaatheism.htm

foxhound_fox

Why are we bringing up Naturalism if the Argument is About Atheism then? Snipes_2

Nontheism is not Atheism - Nontheism is a term that covers a range of both religious and nonreligious attitudes characterized by the absence of — or the rejection of — theism or any belief in a personal god or gods. It is in use in the fields of Christian apologetics and general liberal theology. "Nontheism" should not be confused with "irreligion""A few liberal Christian theologians, define a "nontheistic God" as "the ground of all being" rather than as a personal divine being. John Shelby Spong refers to a theistic God as "a personal being with expanded supernatural, human, and parental qualities, which has shaped every religious idea of the Western world.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism#Christianity

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I was still posting in regards to a soul. Something Supernatural (Like a Soul) must have been Created by a Higher Power. Not that God had to have been created by something. Snipes_2

And like I told you, just because two things are not identical doesnt mean that certain things dont apply to both. I told you that if you want to show that, you'll have to show specifically what it is that differentiates the two things so much that thing x doesnt apply to both. Simply telling me "they are not the same" wont do it.

Souls are different than an All Knowing Infinite Being.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Yeah but he says that since both are supernatural entities (a personal god and soul(s)) then this thing could apply to both of them: that they both dont need a creator.

Teenaged

And like I told you, just because two things are not identical doesnt mean that certain things dont apply to both. I told you that if you want to show that, you'll have to show specifically what it is that differentiates the two things so much that thing x doesnt apply to both. Simply telling me "they are not the same" wont do it.

Souls are not equal to God. God is all knowing etc...Souls are basically the culmination of what you've done on Earth.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Souls are different than an All Knowing Infinite Being.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] But you generalized your argument to the point where you encompassed all that is supernatural. If it is not necessarily true that God, a supernatural entity, must be created by another supernatural entity, then at the same time it is also not necessarily true that a soul, which is also a supernatural entity, must be created by another supernatural entity. gubrushadow

oh please snipes save your breathe , you know these anguments lead nowhere right ??

Souls are not equal to God. God is all knowing etc...Souls are basically the culmination of what you've done on Earth.Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Souls aren't God. Souls are different than an Infinite Being. Snipes_2

And like I told you, just because two things are not identical doesnt mean that certain things dont apply to both. I told you that if you want to show that, you'll have to show specifically what it is that differentiates the two things so much that thing x doesnt apply to both. Simply telling me "they are not the same" wont do it.

Souls are not equal to God. God is all knowing etc...Souls are basically the culmination of what you've done on Earth.

The discussion is about whatever definition of soul a non-naturalist atheist may adhere to (or just entertain his mind with).

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

Souls are different than an All Knowing Infinite Being.

Snipes_2

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred. (this is the intellectual agreement we have as a species so far, not to say it can never be proven wrong)

I do not know what awaits me after death, I only speculate, even if your remains/essence whatever is transferred into something else, that could be defined as life after death, (since we are using languages that are ultimately up to interpretation) Though I do not know if human consciousness ends/ or transforms/ or even from the religious point of view transported.

A quote I find fascinating is "We are all just star dust, harvesting star light."

[QUOTE="gubrushadow"] i didnt mean what by that but by : If love is the answer, could you rephrase the question? , but now i know its his sig :Sdomatron23

I was still posting in regards to a soul. Something Supernatural (Like a Soul) must have been Created by a Higher Power. Not that God had to have been created by something. Snipes_2

oh please snipes save your breathe , you know these anguments lead nowhere right ??

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] No one has said that they are the same thing. Of course they are different, and they are different in many ways. But just because they are different doesn't mean that one needs a creator while the other doesn't. What specifically is different about God that makes it unnecessary for him to have a creator while at the same time makes it necessary for a soul to have a creator? This question needs a specific answer.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Souls may be infinite too. How do you know they arent infinite?

And like I told you, just because two things are not identical doesnt mean that certain things dont apply to both. I told you that if you want to show that, you'll have to show specifically what it is that differentiates the two things so much that thing x doesnt apply to both. Simply telling me "they are not the same" wont do it.

Teenaged

Souls are not equal to God. God is all knowing etc...Souls are basically the culmination of what you've done on Earth.

The discussion is about whatever definition of soul a non-naturalist atheist may adhere to (or just entertain his mind with).