So college is now worthless

[QUOTE="psychobrew"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I don't get why you're calling them four "extra" years. You graduate, you find a job.

chrisrooR

Sure, but again, a college grad doesn't attempt to find a job unitl the highschool grad has had four years to find one.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate. GabuEX said, " I think the idea that college is worthless would be a pretty hard sell," so I'm attempting to sell it. It's like he dared me and I couldn't say no.

[QUOTE="psychobrew"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I don't get why you're calling them four "extra" years. You graduate, you find a job.

And what difference does that make?

It's not like you have a high school student and a guy just going off to college and they're in a race to see who can get a career first.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="psychobrew"] The point was about unemployment rates. Higher unemployment rates equals a longer job search. With 4 extra years to search though, the difference in unemployment rates aren't as big of a deal as one might think.psychobrew

I don't get why you're calling them four "extra" years. You graduate, you find a job.

So what kind of jobs can you find without a degree? Fast food? Warehouse jobs? Construction? I wouldn't call those the ideal jobs for people who go to college. They go to college because they are interested in working in fields such as Sciences, Medicine, law, engineering or anything related to the degree they are pursuing. College is no useless for these people, it gives them a chance to work in the field they like.albi321

Military, police, government, office/clerical (could lead to advancement), union jobs, craftsmen (i.e. building furniture), fishing, acting, music, construction (can lead to owning your own company if motivated enough), etc. True, there are less opportunities (unless you gain experience in something, which in my experience, is more important than education), but there are opportunities. Companies love sales people too. If you land a sales job and are good at it, the sky is the limmit regardless of your education.

Also, even college grads have a dificult time making it in a science field (and many don't pay well).

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="psychobrew"] A Bachelors degree takes four years to obtain. Someone who enters the job market right after highschool can start looking for a career while the someone who goes to college is taking courses. That's a four year difference.psychobrew

And what difference does that make?

It's not like you have a high school student and a guy just going off to college and they're in a race to see who can get a career first.

How?

The difference in unemployment rates between those with less education and those with more is massive (as are their average earnings, too).

[QUOTE="albi321"]So what kind of jobs can you find without a degree? Fast food? Warehouse jobs? Construction? I wouldn't call those the ideal jobs for people who go to college. They go to college because they are interested in working in fields such as Sciences, Medicine, law, engineering or anything related to the degree they are pursuing. College is no useless for these people, it gives them a chance to work in the field they like.psychobrew

Military, police, government, office/clerical (could lead to advancement), union jobs, craftsmen (i.e. building furniture), fishing, acting, music, construction (can lead to owning your own company if motivated enough), etc. True, there are less opportunities (unless you gain experience in something, which in my experience, is more important than education), but there are opportunities. Companies love sales people too. If you land a sales job and are good at it, the sky is the limmit regardless of your education.

Also, even college grads have a dificult time making it in a science field (and many don't pay well).

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="psychobrew"] A Bachelors degree takes four years to obtain. Someone who enters the job market right after highschool can start looking for a career while the someone who goes to college is taking courses. That's a four year difference.psychobrew

Sure, but again, a college grad doesn't attempt to find a job unitl the highschool grad has had four years to find one.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate. GabuEX said, " I think the idea that college is worthless would be a pretty hard sell," so I'm attempting to sell it. It's like he dared me and I couldn't say no.

According to U.S. Census Bureau statistics from 2007, the mean high school graduate income was $31,286, roughly $26,000 less than the $51,181 earned by college graduates. Over the course of a 45-year working life, that amounts to $1.17 million. Even a two-year associate's degree provides an average of $180,000 more than a high-school diploma in a lifetime. A doctorate adds more than $2 million to a worker's pocket, given the average annual salary of $80,977. The Alliance for Excellent Education estimates that 12 percent of the population between 25 and 34 who dropped out of high school receive public assistance, while less than 1 percent of college graduates do. Only 3.6 percent of college graduates live below the poverty line, as opposed to 24 percent of those without a high school diploma. For single mothers who did not graduate high school, the rate is nearly one in two.

Non-college graduates face difficulties beyond lower salary expectations. At a time when many blue-collar jobs are disappearing or being outsourced, jobs requiring a college degree are expanding. A majority of members of the National Association of Manufacturers feel that high-school graduates are no longer equipped to do the work. The Bureau of Labor Statistics lists the unemployment rate for high school graduates as more than four times that of their college counterparts.

There's plenty of evidence supporting the fact that College grads earn more money, per capita, then kids who only have High School diplomas.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6128503_financial-college-grads-vs_-non_grads.html

It's kind of funny. When I was applying for a job at my department I was selected over those with college degrees because I was in the military and had direct law enforcement experience.

Get a master degree.

So what kind of jobs can you find without a degree? Fast food? Warehouse jobs? Construction? I wouldn't call those the ideal jobs for people who go to college. They go to college because they are interested in working in fields such as Sciences, Medicine, law, engineering or anything related to the degree they are pursuing. College is no useless for these people, it gives them a chance to work in the field they like.albi321

:|

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/Careers/02/24/cb.no.degree.jobs/index.html

There you go. Even one with a average salary higher then most jobs that require a college degree.

I agree with the article in the OP. I was doing a internship at some accounting firm and one of them just graduated college 2 years ago. He makes $14/hour with a 4-year degree. I have a friend who never went to college but is a district manager for Gamestop and makes 50,000/year which is a lot more then the accountant with the degree.

To most people I've talked to it seems that it takes a lot longer for a college graduate to settle in their career while a high school graduate could have 4+ years of experience by the time you graduate.

Get a master degree.

-Iconoclast-

I have to say, we should be doing something more important with our time.GazaAli

... College is the pivotal point in our education careers.. Its not just about recieving job training in a desired field.. Its being able to write professionally, being able to effectively research and create a thesis.. If anything I would say that HIGHSCHOOL needs to be cut.. Because all too often the general courses are what you learned in highschool but this time around they are far more effective and more indepth.

I have to say, we should be doing something more important with our time.GazaAli

Such as...?

[QUOTE="-Iconoclast-"]

Get a master degree.

GazaAli

College also provides a person time to discover themselves, sleep with countless women, and binge drink like crazy, so even if you don't end up with a great job at the end it's not a total loss.DJ_Lae

Don't get a BS degree. A lot of people tend to settle for the 'easy' degrees, which is usually psychology or econ, and those are pretty much useless in the general job market unless you graduated from a top 20 University. NOT ALL DEGREES ARE EQUAL. There are plenty of useless degrees. If your goal is one of those, then don't waste your time and money, just go for some technical training in a field you like instead.

Its free, so yay for me! :P

College also provides a person time to discover themselves, sleep with countless women, and binge drink like crazy, so even if you don't end up with a great job at the end it's not a total loss.DJ_Lae

what college are you at cuz i want to come :(

[QUOTE="psychobrew"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

And what difference does that make?

It's not like you have a high school student and a guy just going off to college and they're in a race to see who can get a career first.

GabuEx

How?

The difference in unemployment rates between those with less education and those with more is massive (as are their average earnings, too).

I personally believe college is important (I work at one), but at the end of the day it's who you know, your experience, and your ability to sell yourself that matters most in the job market. A college degree certainly helps you gain that necessary experience, but especially in technical jobs (i.e. IT), experience means more than your degree.

I also think the article was flawed, though it did raise a few points and I thought it would make for some interesting discussion.

Higher education is never a waste . . . . .

I dont know. Im studying in the "best" uni around here. Computer Engineering is my major. 90% of the "Professors" are not good and im pretty sure they cant give me anything at all. BA here takes 5 freakin years! i worked my ass to cute them to 4.5 years. i already finished 4 years and i only have one semester to go. The point is, i dont feel that I accomplished anything spectacular, despite the time and effort i put into it. I feel that we need a better system, that encourage innovations and intuitive thinking, rather than exams and marks. its stupid to be honest, I cant express my disgust with the fascination most teachers and students have for marks. GazaAli

According to "experts,"college is a waste of time. We have more graduates than jobs requiring degrees, student debt is growing faster than wages, and it causes slower growth in the economy. Take it for what it's worth.

psychobrew

That article is full of ****
-the studies (at least here in the United States) show a widening gap (in most industries) b/w the number of open jobs requiring degrees and the available work force.

=> our qualified work force is actually shrinking

I have a crappy job and I have a finance degree and an economics degree. Getting any sort of traction in the finance industry is impossible now. The five people that I was counting on to help me get my foot in the door have been laid off and I now have to compete for jobs with them. wstfld

Finance sucks right now...sorry man.
-just bad timing
-had professors telling finance majors to stay in school (they took some of the same cla$$es as accountants)

Finance is great in good times, but terrible in lean times

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]I dont know. Im studying in the "best" uni around here. Computer Engineering is my major. 90% of the "Professors" are not good and im pretty sure they cant give me anything at all. BA here takes 5 freakin years! i worked my ass to cute them to 4.5 years. i already finished 4 years and i only have one semester to go. The point is, i dont feel that I accomplished anything spectacular, despite the time and effort i put into it. I feel that we need a better system, that encourage innovations and intuitive thinking, rather than exams and marks. its stupid to be honest, I cant express my disgust with the fascination most teachers and students have for marks. Mochyc

I don't see it as worthless..and as long as i don't see it as worthless it isn't right...RIGHT!!?!?

[QUOTE="psychobrew"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I don't get why you're calling them four "extra" years. You graduate, you find a job.

GabuEx

And what difference does that make?

It's not like you have a high school student and a guy just going off to college and they're in a race to see who can get a career first.

Exactly lol... A guy getting a job at walmart after high school (or some other job that requires no education) is not the same as a career... Say someone goes to college and majors in IT (computer science or something similar) (something that EVERYONE is doing now)... When he graduates, even if the job market is super saturated and he can't get that dream job at Microsoft making $300k a year he wanted, he can still get a $60k job in government IT, schools, businesses, etc... And $60k a year, albeit not what he wanted, is better than the $15k that guy who didn't go to college makes a year at McDonald's... And after a few years performing well at those levels, he has that on his resume and can take up a job for larger corporations making more money... You can't say the same about a high school grad... Its not like you work for McDonald's for 5 years and they "OMG YOU FLIPPED THOSE PATTIES SO WELL THAT WE WANT TO HIRE YOU AND PAY YOU $100k a year with full benefits!!!!!!" They will say "Wow you have been with us for 5 years? Ok you are a manager now and make $8.50 an hour instead of $7.50..."

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]I dont know. Im studying in the "best" uni around here. Computer Engineering is my major. 90% of the "Professors" are not good and im pretty sure they cant give me anything at all. BA here takes 5 freakin years! i worked my ass to cute them to 4.5 years. i already finished 4 years and i only have one semester to go. The point is, i dont feel that I accomplished anything spectacular, despite the time and effort i put into it. I feel that we need a better system, that encourage innovations and intuitive thinking, rather than exams and marks. its stupid to be honest, I cant express my disgust with the fascination most teachers and students have for marks. Mochyc

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="psychobrew"] A Bachelors degree takes four years to obtain. Someone who enters the job market right after highschool can start looking for a career while the someone who goes to college is taking courses. That's a four year difference.Buttons1990

And what difference does that make?

It's not like you have a high school student and a guy just going off to college and they're in a race to see who can get a career first.

Exactly lol... A guy getting a job at walmart after high school (or some other job that requires no education) is not the same as a career... Say someone goes to college and majors in IT (computer science or something similar) (something that EVERYONE is doing now)... When he graduates, even if the job market is super saturated and he can't get that dream job at Microsoft making $300k a year he wanted, he can still get a $60k job in government IT, schools, businesses, etc... And $60k a year, albeit not what he wanted, is better than the $15k that guy who didn't go to college makes a year at McDonald's... And after a few years performing well at those levels, he has that on his resume and can take up a job for larger corporations making more money... You can't say the same about a high school grad... Its not like you work for McDonald's for 5 years and they "OMG YOU FLIPPED THOSE PATTIES SO WELL THAT WE WANT TO HIRE YOU AND PAY YOU $100k a year with full benefits!!!!!!" They will say "Wow you have been with us for 5 years? Ok you are a manager now and make $8.50 an hour instead of $7.50..."

College isn't worthless. Trade and technical schools are just in demand. Everyone wants to go college but so few to a technical school, eventually technical/trade students will be higher in demand.

My college does a good job of setting every student up with a job from year 1, so I'm not too worried.

Actually bigger corporations such as Walmart, Mcdonalds, etc. managers make around 40-50k a year. Back to the topic though, the debt a student occurs over his years is a little too ridiculous especially when you consider how many teachers are getting cut.

But the teaching field will probably pick back up when the economy picks up. (Or at least i hope because education is what i plan on studying.)

I went straight to the workforce when i got out of high school and it is serving me well untill i finish school. It makes life more hectic but i can deal with it.