So what did Jesus' death REALLY mean?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]So I take it you don't have an objection after all, then, since you're just restating their methodology?Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Apparently some things are just over your head dude.:lol:LJS9502_basic

"And indeed, those who had to work harder to comprehend the questionnaire rated their religious beliefs lower."

Isn't this you know signs of stupidness?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]*shrug* Just checking whether you actually had any kind of actual, concrete issue with their paper

Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And I posted my issue twice and you still don't get it.:)LJS9502_basic

waffle

Philokalia

You still provide no sources for your wild claims. Easter was a pagan festival and the goddes worshipped was called easter.

lets try and break it down a little then, how is the easter bunny and easter eggs christian, can you quote the bible regarding this?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]'concrete'Funky_Llama

You still provide no sources for your wild claims. Easter was a pagan festival and the goddes worshipped was called easter.

lets try and break it down a little then, how is the easter bunny and easter eggs christian, can you quote the bible regarding this?

tenaka2

Tenaka you are the one trying to prove it is pagan. You have not adequately done so. The Only thing you have managed to do is point out that the ENGLISH TERM EASTER. (I'm serious do you not grasp that this was only original to the English? and that virutally most other languages refer to it as a Pascha or a varient thereof? Do you comprehend this?). The primary sources and actual scholars who relate to this history would be helpful instead of fundamentalists (ironically) and outdated sources.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

You still provide no sources for your wild claims. Easter was a pagan festival and the goddes worshipped was called easter.

lets try and break it down a little then, how is the easter bunny and easter eggs christian, can you quote the bible regarding this?

Philokalia

Tenaka you are the one trying to prove it is pagan. You have not adequately done so. The Only thing you have managed to do is point out that the ENGLISH TERM EASTER. (I'm serious do you not grasp that this was only original to the English? and that virutally most other languages refer to it as a Pascha or a varient thereof? Do you comprehend this?). The primary sources and actual scholars who relate to this history would be helpful instead of fundamentalists (ironically) and outdated sources.

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

tenaka2

They are not in agreement as every "Historian" you have quoted is from a century ago and does not represent todays scholarship. If this is so plain and evident surely you would be able to read their thesis's and articles and point to the primary evidence which they use therein to justify their point. Tenaka stop acting as if you have proved something when you haven't. Essentially you are acting like a creationist at this point.

They are not in agreement as every "Historian" you have quoted is from a century ago and does not represent todays scholarship.If this is so plain and evident surely you would be able to read their thesis's and articles and point to the primary evidence which they use therein to justify their point. Tenaka stop acting as if you have proved something when you haven't. Essentially you are acting like a creationist at this point.

Philokalia

Simply repeating yourself is not helping your already weak case. Also resorting to personal insults rather then anything credible is rather telling. What makes you think that all the sources I quoted are a hundred years old? You are just making stuff up.

You stiull refuse to face up to the facts. I will ask again. Can you show a christian meaning for the easter bunny and easter eggs?

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

You still provide no sources for your wild claims. Easter was a pagan festival and the goddes worshipped was called easter.

lets try and break it down a little then, how is the easter bunny and easter eggs christian, can you quote the bible regarding this?

tenaka2

Tenaka you are the one trying to prove it is pagan. You have not adequately done so. The Only thing you have managed to do is point out that the ENGLISH TERM EASTER. (I'm serious do you not grasp that this was only original to the English? and that virutally most other languages refer to it as a Pascha or a varient thereof? Do you comprehend this?). The primary sources and actual scholars who relate to this history would be helpful instead of fundamentalists (ironically) and outdated sources.

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

You just have to read the Bible to realize Easter's origin is passover. Jesus was crucified on passover (If I remember correctly) and one of the apostles instructs his followers to celebrate his death on passover (IIRC, It's been a long time since I've read anything in the bible) It doesn't take a genius to realize that is the origin of Easter.

They are not in agreement as every "Historian" you have quoted is from a century ago and does not represent todays scholarship.If this is so plain and evident surely you would be able to read their thesis's and articles and point to the primary evidence which they use therein to justify their point. Tenaka stop acting as if you have proved something when you haven't. Essentially you are acting like a creationist at this point.

Philokalia

Simply repeating yourself is not helping your already weak case. Also resorting to personal insults rather then anything credible is rather telling. What makes you think that all the sources I quoted are a hundred years old? You are just making stuff up.

You still refuse to face up to the facts. I will ask again. Can you show a christian meaning for the easter bunny and easter eggs?

Here is yet another source, strange it doesnt read like its a hundred years old, but no doubt you will claim it is.

http://homecooking.about.com/od/foodhistory/a/easteregghistry.htm

It's pretty much common knowledge that Easter is a Christian celebration of Christ's rising, but this holiday also has pagan origins. Where did the colored eggs, cute little bunnies, baby chicks, leg oflambdinners, and lilies come from? They are all symbols of rebirth and thelambwas a traditional religious sacrifice.

Easter falls in the spring, the yearly time of renewal, when the earth renews itself after a long, cold winter. The wordEastercomes to us from the Norsemen'sEostur, Eastar, Ostara,andOstar, and the pagan goddess Eostre, all of which involve the season of the growing sun and new birth. The Easter Bunny arose originally as a symbol of fertility, due to the rapid reproduction habits of the hare and rabbit.

The ancient Egyptians, Persians, Phoenicians, and Hindus all believed the world began with an enormous egg, thus the egg as a symbol of new life has been around for eons. The particulars may vary, but most cultures around the world use the egg as a symbol of new life and rebirth. A notation in the household accounts of Edward I of England showed an expenditure of eighteen pence for 450 eggs to be gold-leafed and colored for Easter gifts. The first book to mention Easter eggs by name was written five hundred years ago. Yet, a North African tribe that had become Christian much earlier in time had a custom ofcoloring eggsat Easter. Long hard winters often meant little food, and a fresh egg for Easter was quite a prize. Later, Christians abstained from eating meat during the Lenten season prior to Easter. Easter was the first chance to enjoy eggs andmeatafter the long abstinence.

Simply repeating yourself is not helping your already weak case. Also resorting to personal insults rather then anything credible is rather telling. What makes you think that all the sources I quoted are a hundred years old? You are just making stuff up.

You stiull refuse to face up to the facts. I will ask again. Can you show a christian meaning for the eater bunny and easter eggs?

tenaka2

Tenaka did you even read half the things you googled? The fact that these come from scholars 100 or so years ago? And in the case of your last quotation which comes from a fundamentalist who quotes the two Babylon's for Crying out loud. Now here is what you need to do, you need to provide evidence that the feast of the pascha celebration (easter) is pagan. You can do this by demonstrating early pagan sources which say as much, but you haven't done this. You haven't attempted. As for the meaning of the eggs they (at least in the orthodox church) represent the tomb and when cracked it represents the tomb being broken and it ultimately lies within a tradition regarding Mary Magdalene. As for the easter bunny he is irrelevent, I don't place any special importance on him and I don't see the need to as a Christian, he is a cultueral extension which has become associated with the date, nothing more. There is nothing liturgical or of religious signifficance to the easter Bunny. Though I will eat the great bunny Chocolate egg every year. But Tenaka, prove the feast is derived from paganism. I've given you a quote from the mid 2nd century regarding that of the feast refuting one incredibly bad point in that fundamentalist article you gave.

Now you again quote that but do you know what that is? Its just claims not backed up by a single point of evidence. GIVE THE EARLY PRIMARY REFERENCES. DO WHAT A HISTORIAN MIGHT DO. AND STOP IGNORING THE FACT THAT EASTER IS SOMETHING WHICH HAS DEVELOPED SOLELY IN ENGLISH AND WAS NEVER USED OF THE EARLY CHRISTIAN PRACTICE. Caps locks are appropiate as you have to constantly avoid this one undeniable fact.

You just have to read the Bible to realize Easter's origin is passover. Jesus was crucified on passover (If I remember correctly) and one of the apostles instructs his followers to celebrate his death on passover (IIRC, It's been a long time since I've read anything in the bible) It doesn't take a genius to realize that is the origin of Easter.

magnax1

Only if you are ignorant of history and religion.

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

You just have to read the Bible to realize Easter's origin is passover. Jesus was crucified on passover (If I remember correctly) and one of the apostles instructs his followers to celebrate his death on passover (IIRC, It's been a long time since I've read anything in the bible) It doesn't take a genius to realize that is the origin of Easter.

tenaka2

Only if you are ignorant of history and religion.

Great argument! Thanks for informing me!

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Simply repeating yourself is not helping your already weak case. Also resorting to personal insults rather then anything credible is rather telling. What makes you think that all the sources I quoted are a hundred years old? You are just making stuff up.

You stiull refuse to face up to the facts. I will ask again. Can you show a christian meaning for the eater bunny and easter eggs?

Philokalia

Tenaka did you even read half the things you googled? The fact that these come from scholars 100 or so years ago?

Yet again you just repeat yourself, how about you actually provide some back up for what is obviously your own opinion. You still answered none of questions posed.

Your faith is extremely week, why does it matter to you so much that christianity is derived from many different and older beliefs?

Only if you are ignorant of history and religion.

tenaka2

You don't know the history, if you did you would be able to quote the primary sources which demonstrate an early Pagan celebration called Easter which you would say the Christians stole, renamed to pascha and relegated it in relation to the Jewish calander. Of course the logical conclusion is that Pascha is inspired by paganism at that point. Give me a break.

And Tenaka repeating is all I can seem to do with you. You don't realise that Easter is only from the english. That the Lenten Period can be seen from the second century as can the feast of the Holy Pasch itself. Not to neglect that fact the only reason it happens during the spring time is because it is in direct relationship to the Jewish Passover. Again you cannot establish anything pagan as to the roots of Pascha from history. Instead you can only but claim things and not prove them. GIVE the PRIMARY sources.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

You just have to read the Bible to realize Easter's origin is passover. Jesus was crucified on passover (If I remember correctly) and one of the apostles instructs his followers to celebrate his death on passover (IIRC, It's been a long time since I've read anything in the bible) It doesn't take a genius to realize that is the origin of Easter.

magnax1

Only if you are ignorant of history and religion.

Great argument! Thanks for informing me!

I posted multiple sources about the true origins of easter, its common knowledge, plus the name Easter is itself named after the goddess that used to be worshiped, this alone should help you.

I posted multiple sources about the true origins of easter, its common knowledge, plus the name Easter is itself named after the goddess that used to be worshiped, this alone should help you.

tenaka2

All of which are old and outdated, lacking in any primary references and not reflecitng the current stance of academia. Again I challange you, if the evidence is so plain post the primary evidence. Surely from all these scholarly works which you must have read in order to understand your own point you can quote the evidence they use right?

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Only if you are ignorant of history and religion.

Philokalia

You don't know the history, if you did you would be able to quote the primary sources which demonstrate an early Pagan celebration called Easter which you would say the Christians stole, renamed to pascha and relegated it in relation to the Jewish calander. Of course the logical conclusion is that Pascha is inspired by paganism at that point. Give me a break.

Again you proved nothing to back up your opinion. Ill see if I can get sources from religious sites. Here found a religious site this may help you.

http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-pagan-origin-of-christian-holidays/

It?s no coincidence that the two most important Christian holidays were once two of the most disgusting pagan celebrations, devoted to the blatant exhibition of adultery, gluttony, blasphemy and child sacrifice, behavior specifically forbidden by God. It was an attack on the sanctity of these two events that Christians resisted for over 400 years, but have now accepted to a point where to question them invites ridicule.

As far as His birth is concerned the actual date is unknown, although a late September time frame seems most likely. The way the holiday is celebrated is another matter. The Commercialism, over indulgence, and prominence of pagan symbols like evergreen trees, mistletoe, and Santa Claus (an all knowing, omni-present father figure who rewards kids based on their works) have no place in the celebration of our Lord?s arrival on Earth. Giving each other gifts to celebrate the birth of our Lord is one thing, but pretending they came from the false god Santa as a reward for good behavior is quite another.

There is a relevant date that can be more easily determined, and that?s the date of His conception. It probably happened on one of the 8 days of Hanukkah, and if God believes that life begins at conception (as I?m convinced He does) then it might be a more appropriate time for the Celebration of God becoming man to dwell among us.

Easter is different. The very name comes from the Babylonian fertility goddess Ishtar, and the main attractions are eggs and rabbits, symbols of fertility. There?s a tradition that colored eggs originated in the dyeing of eggs with the blood of newly sacrificed children, whose lives were given in the hope of a plentiful harvest. I can?t think of anything more repulsive to God.

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Only if you are ignorant of history and religion.

tenaka2

Great argument! Thanks for informing me!

I posted multiple sources about the true origins of easter, its common knowledge, plus the name Easter is itself named after the goddess that used to be worshiped, this alone should help you.

Sorry, you're clearly wrong. Maybe the way the date is calculated was borrowed from Pagans, but the Bibles spells out when Jesus's death and ressurection was first celebrated, and it's relation to passover.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

Great argument! Thanks for informing me!

magnax1

I posted multiple sources about the true origins of easter, its common knowledge, plus the name Easter is itself named after the goddess that used to be worshiped, this alone should help you.

Sorry, you're clearly wrong. Maybe the way the date is calculated was borrowed from Pagans, but the Bibles spells out when Jesus's death and ressurection was first celebrated, and it's relation to passover.

Oh really, and where do the Easter bunny and easter eggs fit in with christianity? ALso eating of Lamb, a traditional pagan sacrifice?

I have provided lots of info regarding this, its common knowledge that the major christian holidays are originally pagan, most religious people admit this.

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I posted multiple sources about the true origins of easter, its common knowledge, plus the name Easter is itself named after the goddess that used to be worshiped, this alone should help you.

tenaka2

Sorry, you're clearly wrong. Maybe the way the date is calculated was borrowed from Pagans, but the Bibles spells out when Jesus's death and ressurection was first celebrated, and it's relation to passover.

Oh really, and where do the Easter bunny and easter eggs fit in with christianity? ALso eating of Lamb, a traditional pagan sacrifice?

I have provided lots of info regarding this, its common knowledge that the major christian holidays are originally pagan, most religious people admit this.

The Easter bunny and easter eggs aren't taught by any chrisitan church I know of, though I do know that the reason the easter bunny began was that people thought hares were hemaphrodites in medieval times, and thusly associated them with the virgin mary. Either way, you're mixing tradition with the religion itself.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

Sorry, you're clearly wrong. Maybe the way the date is calculated was borrowed from Pagans, but the Bibles spells out when Jesus's death and ressurection was first celebrated, and it's relation to passover.

magnax1

Oh really, and where do the Easter bunny and easter eggs fit in with christianity? ALso eating of Lamb, a traditional pagan sacrifice?

I have provided lots of info regarding this, its common knowledge that the major christian holidays are originally pagan, most religious people admit this.

The Easter bunny and easter eggs aren't taught by any chrisitan church I know of, though I do know that the reason the easter bunny began was that people thought hares were hemaphrodites in medieval times, and thusly associated them with the virgin mary. Either way, you're mixing tradition with the religion itself.

Sorry you are incorrect.

?The hare, the symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt, a symbol that was kept later in Europe?Its place has been taken by the Easter rabbit? (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1991 ed., Vol. 4, p. 333).

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Oh really, and where do the Easter bunny and easter eggs fit in with christianity? ALso eating of Lamb, a traditional pagan sacrifice?

I have provided lots of info regarding this, its common knowledge that the major christian holidays are originally pagan, most religious people admit this.

tenaka2

The Easter bunny and easter eggs aren't taught by any chrisitan church I know of, though I do know that the reason the easter bunny began was that people thought hares were hemaphrodites in medieval times, and thusly associated them with the virgin mary. Either way, you're mixing tradition with the religion itself.

Sorry you are incorrect.

?The hare, the symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt, a symbol that was kept later in Europe?Its place has been taken by the Easter rabbit? (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1991 ed., Vol. 4, p. 333).

Do I need to point out the verses in the bible that I'm talking about or something? Google them, they're in there. I'm too lazy to do it.

A quote from a encyclopedia is barely proof by the way.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

The Easter bunny and easter eggs aren't taught by any chrisitan church I know of, though I do know that the reason the easter bunny began was that people thought hares were hemaphrodites in medieval times, and thusly associated them with the virgin mary. Either way, you're mixing tradition with the religion itself.

magnax1

Sorry you are incorrect.

?The hare, the symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt, a symbol that was kept later in Europe?Its place has been taken by the Easter rabbit? (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1991 ed., Vol. 4, p. 333).

Do I need to point out the verses in the bible that I'm talking about or something? Google them, they're in there. I'm too lazy to do it.

Perhaps you are missign my point, all I am saying is that christianity adopted a lot of pagan traditions and festivals, this was done so it would be easier to convert pagans, this is well known historical fact.

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Sorry you are incorrect.

?The hare, the symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt, a symbol that was kept later in Europe?Its place has been taken by the Easter rabbit? (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1991 ed., Vol. 4, p. 333).

tenaka2

Do I need to point out the verses in the bible that I'm talking about or something? Google them, they're in there. I'm too lazy to do it.

Perhaps you are missign my point, all I am saying is that christianity adopted a lot of pagan traditions and festivals, this was done so it would be easier to convert pagans, this is well known historical fact.

I know that christianity adopted a lot of the rituals, but it didn't originate from them, which is what you made it sound like. Easter clearly originated from passover.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

Do I need to point out the verses in the bible that I'm talking about or something? Google them, they're in there. I'm too lazy to do it.

magnax1

Perhaps you are missign my point, all I am saying is that christianity adopted a lot of pagan traditions and festivals, this was done so it would be easier to convert pagans, this is well known historical fact.

I know that christianity adopted a lot of the rituals, but it didn't originate from them, which is what you made it sound like. Easter clearly originated from passover.

Easter originated as a pagan holiday that was merged with christianity. I fail to understand why this is terrifying for some christians.

Tenaka googling "easter is pagan" will not prove your thesis. You are making outlandish claims, and the same article you quote makes outlandish claims/ WHERE IS THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE? TENAKA, one primary source. Do you know what that is?

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I posted multiple sources about the true origins of easter, its common knowledge, plus the name Easter is itself named after the goddess that used to be worshiped, this alone should help you.

tenaka2

Sorry, you're clearly wrong. Maybe the way the date is calculated was borrowed from Pagans, but the Bibles spells out when Jesus's death and ressurection was first celebrated, and it's relation to passover.

Oh really, and where do the Easter bunny and easter eggs fit in with christianity? ALso eating of Lamb, a traditional pagan sacrifice?

I have provided lots of info regarding this, its common knowledge that the major christian holidays are originally pagan, most religious people admit this.

Tenaka googling "easter is pagan" will not prove your thesis. You are making outlandish claims, and the same article you quote makes outlandish claims/ WHERE IS THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE? TENAKA, one primary source. Do you know what that is?

Philokalia

Nothing will prove an evidentially based idea to you, it seems.No rational rebuttals from you; just shouting instead. That you can't see how Christianity used long-established holidays to pragmatically reference their God makes you blind to evidence already presented.

Is it just mere coincidence that Christmas and Easter fall on the winter and Vernal equinoxes?

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Tenaka googling "easter is pagan" will not prove your thesis. You are making outlandish claims, and the same article you quote makes outlandish claims/ WHERE IS THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE? TENAKA, one primary source. Do you know what that is?

RationalAtheist

Nothing will prove an evidentially based idea to you, it seems.No rational rebuttals from you; just shouting instead. That you can't see how Christianity used long-established holidays to pragmatically reference their God makes you blind to evidence already presented.

Is it just mere coincidence that Christmas and Easter fall on the winter and Vernal equinoxes?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Tenaka googling "easter is pagan" will not prove your thesis. You are making outlandish claims, and the same article you quote makes outlandish claims/ WHERE IS THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE? TENAKA, one primary source. Do you know what that is?

LJS9502_basic

Nothing will prove an evidentially based idea to you, it seems.No rational rebuttals from you; just shouting instead. That you can't see how Christianity used long-established holidays to pragmatically reference their God makes you blind to evidence already presented.

Is it just mere coincidence that Christmas and Easter fall on the winter and Vernal equinoxes?

It's exactly what I wrote. Please do keep up.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Nothing will prove an evidentially based idea to you, it seems.No rational rebuttals from you; just shouting instead. That you can't see how Christianity used long-established holidays to pragmatically reference their God makes you blind to evidence already presented.

Is it just mere coincidence that Christmas and Easter fall on the winter and Vernal equinoxes?

RationalAtheist

It's exactly what I wrote. Please do keep up.

[QUOTE="jshaas"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Yes, along with all the people in different parts of the world that the word didn't reach, such as north and south america, austrailia, asia etc.

As well as anyone who was blind and deaf. Obviously under christian dogma, those people havn't suffered enough.

GrayF0X786

heres islams story - Adam sinned...asked for forgivness...God forgave him, becuase the creator knew he would sin, and when i say God, its not a Blonde MAN with blue eyes.

Jesus wasn't blonde with blue eyes. This is just a gross westernization of his likeness. His appearance is clearly described in the Bible.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No. The dates were deliberately selected as they didn't want to remove a "holiday" from the pagans when they converted. Thus...they kept the date but changed the reason. You know that though....don't you?LJS9502_basic

It's exactly what I wrote. Please do keep up.

I could ask you why write what you wrote and ask me if I knew that (the thing I wrote about).

My response was aimed at someone who seems to deny the appropriation of established pagan holidays by the Christian faith. That's why I asked them the question. Clear now?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

It's exactly what I wrote. Please do keep up.

RationalAtheist

I could ask you why write what you wrote and ask me if I knew that (the thing I wrote about).

My response was aimed at someone who seems to deny the appropriation of established pagan holidays by the Christian faith. That's why I asked them the question. Clear now?

[QUOTE="GrayF0X786"]

[QUOTE="jshaas"] Not even close. Those that were born before Jesus could only go to Heaven if they were a Jew... or God's people. His word says that Jesus will return will all have heard the Good News. So, there is still time for those in the world who haven't heard. sayyy-gaa

heres islams story - Adam sinned...asked for forgivness...God forgave him, becuase the creator knew he would sin, and when i say God, its not a Blonde MAN with blue eyes.

Jesus wasn't blonde with blue eyes. This is just a gross westernization of his likeness. His appearance is clearly described in the Bible.

You are all a bit right...and a bit wrong TBH.LJS9502_basic

That is so meaningful, especially coming from you!

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Tenaka googling "easter is pagan" will not prove your thesis. You are making outlandish claims, and the same article you quote makes outlandish claims/ WHERE IS THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE? TENAKA, one primary source. Do you know what that is?

LJS9502_basic

Nothing will prove an evidentially based idea to you, it seems.No rational rebuttals from you; just shouting instead. That you can't see how Christianity used long-established holidays to pragmatically reference their God makes you blind to evidence already presented.

Is it just mere coincidence that Christmas and Easter fall on the winter and Vernal equinoxes?

That is all I have been saying but poka is getting very upset indeed.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Nothing will prove an evidentially based idea to you, it seems.No rational rebuttals from you; just shouting instead. That you can't see how Christianity used long-established holidays to pragmatically reference their God makes you blind to evidence already presented.

Is it just mere coincidence that Christmas and Easter fall on the winter and Vernal equinoxes?

tenaka2

That is all I have been saying but poka is getting very upset indeed.

Can't speak for him. Not sure why he'd get upset over the same date. There are only 365 days to pick from anyway. Yeah I know leap year...but then you could only celebrate ever 4 years.LJS9502_basic

You know there is a difference in the date of Easter between the orthodox and Western Christian churches. It's not just the date, its the type of calendar used too!

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Can't speak for him. Not sure why he'd get upset over the same date. There are only 365 days to pick from anyway. Yeah I know leap year...but then you could only celebrate ever 4 years.RationalAtheist

You know there is a difference in the date of Easter between the orthodox and Western Christian churches. It's not just the date, its the type of calendar used too!

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

You still provide no sources for your wild claims. Easter was a pagan festival and the goddes worshipped was called easter.

lets try and break it down a little then, how is the easter bunny and easter eggs christian, can you quote the bible regarding this?

tenaka2

Tenaka you are the one trying to prove it is pagan. You have not adequately done so. The Only thing you have managed to do is point out that the ENGLISH TERM EASTER. (I'm serious do you not grasp that this was only original to the English? and that virutally most other languages refer to it as a Pascha or a varient thereof? Do you comprehend this?). The primary sources and actual scholars who relate to this history would be helpful instead of fundamentalists (ironically) and outdated sources.

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Tenaka googling "easter is pagan" will not prove your thesis. You are making outlandish claims, and the same article you quote makes outlandish claims/ WHERE IS THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE? TENAKA, one primary source. Do you know what that is?

RationalAtheist

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Tenaka you are the one trying to prove it is pagan. You have not adequately done so. The Only thing you have managed to do is point out that the ENGLISH TERM EASTER. (I'm serious do you not grasp that this was only original to the English? and that virutally most other languages refer to it as a Pascha or a varient thereof? Do you comprehend this?). The primary sources and actual scholars who relate to this history would be helpful instead of fundamentalists (ironically) and outdated sources.

themajormayor

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

The bunnies and eggs came well before christ and where part of the pagan easter festivals.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Tenaka you are the one trying to prove it is pagan. You have not adequately done so. The Only thing you have managed to do is point out that the ENGLISH TERM EASTER. (I'm serious do you not grasp that this was only original to the English? and that virutally most other languages refer to it as a Pascha or a varient thereof? Do you comprehend this?). The primary sources and actual scholars who relate to this history would be helpful instead of fundamentalists (ironically) and outdated sources.

themajormayor

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

LJS9502_basic

He has it wrong however, they were added first not later, but its easy to get muddled up when everything is mixed in together.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Most religious historians are in agreement that easter has a pagan origin. Or are you saying that the easter bunny and easter eggs are christian?

You are in a serious state of denial.

Is your faith really that fragile? It is well known that christianity borrowed a lot from older pagan beliefs. Do you at least admit that Christmas was and still is a pagan festival long before the birth of christ?

I am using normal sources, nothing unusual. Trying to discredit all of them as fundamentalists is another example of your denial and compulsive lies.

tenaka2

The bunnies and eggs came well before christ and where part of the pagan easter festivals.