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Im not sure listening to Hardball right now. As of now I think we should at least not add troops to the war in Afganistan. But we should worry about our allies :roll: Pakistan. Al queda is hiding there.
Islamic terrorists have been attacking the US and Western world for decades, and we are supposed to believe they are just going to stop?
Riiiiiight.
There have been embassies and ships blown up, two strikes on the WTC (the latest a successful one), kidnappings, tortures, and more all before we occupied those two countries.
Nope. Theyre this close to crying uncle and we just gotta finish the job until the goodpeople they hide behind see them as the pathetic, backwards, and uncivilized people they are.
:lol: Yeah ok pal.[QUOTE="ufcfan17"]
Maybe,just maybe they are telling the truth.
Pirate700
seriously :lol:
as I said before, they have suddenly realized they have bit off more than they can chew. You dont just say "ooooh, our bad, sorry we dont like those guys any more" and everything is ok
Islamic terrorists have been attacking the US and Western world for decades, and we are supposed to believe they are just going to stop?
Riiiiiight.
There have been embassies and ships blown up, two strikes on the WTC (the latest a successful one), kidnappings, tortures, and more all before we occupied those two countries.
Nope. Theyre this close to crying uncle and we just gotta finish the job until the goodpeople they hide behind see them as the pathetic, backwards, and uncivilized people they are.
I am sorry but not all Arabs are terrorists.. Nor has the Taliban taken credit for any of the attacks.. This isn't to say they should be stopped, but the reasons why we are going to war with them are completely baseless and a waste of resources.. They are just a extremist faction that only has asperations for the territory they are immediately within.. The only time they will stop attacking US targets in that region is when the US stops attacking them.. Furthermore military conflict is not going to work.. Seriously I thought people were aware of this? I guess it must have to take more than 50 years to get through peoples heads that fighting gurrila wars are not profitable.. We have had major losses in each and every one.... Dropping bombs on them isn't gonna make them go anywhere, the Vietcong proved that.. The only way that the Taliban will be destroyed is if A) The governments in that region clean up their acts.. B) The Pakistan and Indian pissing match needs to stop.. And C) Stop trying to put this as a conventional war it doesn't.. Furthermore this "we don't negotiate with terrorists" rhetoric is hypocritical and laughable.. The United States does it constantly, make matters worse we still use Blackwater a evangelical extremist mercenary group that is never held accountable for what they do over there.. Contractors from there got the proverbial slap on the wrist for heinous crimes.[QUOTE="ufcfan17"]
Maybe,just maybe they are telling the truth.
:lol: Yeah ok pal. Tell me, when has Taliban exactly directly attacked the United States? Its a waste of resources and its not doing anything for the war.. Furthermore the top generals have already said that they are fighting a losing battle and need more men.. This is Iraq 2.0.[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
[QUOTE="ufcfan17"]
Maybe,just maybe they are telling the truth.
:lol: Yeah ok pal.seriously :lol:
as I said before, they have suddenly realized they have bit off more than they can chew. You dont just say "ooooh, our bad, sorry we dont like those guys any more" and everything is ok
... Uhh bit off before they chew? The attack on the Taliban has been pre-emptiive like 99% of everything in the past decade by the United States.. Furthermore the Taliban supposedly got "wiped out" a few years back under the Bush adminstration, but now they are back ... Hmmm..[QUOTE="Pirate700"]:lol: Yeah ok pal. Tell me, when has Taliban exactly directly attacked the United States? Its a waste of resources and its not doing anything for the war.. Furthermore the top generals have already said that they are fighting a losing battle and need more men.. This is Iraq 2.0.They have never said we are fighting a losing battle in terms of forces. The Taliban is a joke.[QUOTE="ufcfan17"]
Maybe,just maybe they are telling the truth.
sSubZerOo
[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]:lol: Yeah ok pal.
sSubZerOo
seriously :lol:
as I said before, they have suddenly realized they have bit off more than they can chew. You dont just say "ooooh, our bad, sorry we dont like those guys any more" and everything is ok
... Uhh bit off before they chew? The attack on the Taliban has been pre-emptiive like 99% of everything in the past decade by the United States.. Furthermore the Taliban supposedly got "wiped out" a few years back under the Bush adminstration, but now they are back ... Hmmm.. I've forwarded your posts to the FBI.[QUOTE="ufcfan17"]
Maybe,just maybe they are telling the truth.
:lol: Yeah ok pal. Tell me, when has Taliban exactly directly attacked the United States? Its a waste of resources and its not doing anything for the war.. Furthermore the top generals have already said that they are fighting a losing battle and need more men.. This is Iraq 2.0. It would be nice if this was Iraq 2.0. The Taliban hosted some folks who chose to attack the US directly. They chose to keep hosting them there and sheltering them when asked to kindly hand them over...[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]:lol: Yeah ok pal.
Tell me, when has Taliban exactly directly attacked the United States? Its a waste of resources and its not doing anything for the war.. Furthermore the top generals have already said that they are fighting a losing battle and need more men.. This is Iraq 2.0.They have never said we are fighting a losing battle in terms of forces. The Taliban is a joke. .. The general has already went forward to Obama saying they need more men.. Thats a losing battle, it doesn't matter how many people the Taliban loses there will be plenty of people to take over, its the land and areas they are holding onto and making unsafe.. Thats exactly how Vietnam was..[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]I am sorry but not all Arabs are terroristsIslamic terrorists have been attacking the US and Western world for decades, and we are supposed to believe they are just going to stop?
Riiiiiight.
There have been embassies and ships blown up, two strikes on the WTC (the latest a successful one), kidnappings, tortures, and more all before we occupied those two countries.
Nope. Theyre this close to crying uncle and we just gotta finish the job until the goodpeople they hide behind see them as the pathetic, backwards, and uncivilized people they are.
sSubZerOo
Never said they were
Nor has the Taliban taken credit for any of the attacks.. This isn't to say they should be stopped, but the reasons why we are going to war with them are completely baseless and a waste of resources
The countries they are based in refuse to give them up, and they commited attacks against us. That is plenty enough reason to go to war.
They are just a extremist faction that only has asperations for the territory they are immediately within.. The only time they will stop attacking US targets in that region is when the US stops attacking them
Not to sound like a schoolboy, but...they started it.
Furthermore military conflict is not going to work.. Seriously I thought people were aware of this? I guess it must have to take more than 50 years to get through peoples heads that fighting gurrila wars are not profitable.. We have had major losses in each and every one.... Dropping bombs on them isn't gonna make them go anywhere, the Vietcong proved that
I agree to an extent about the geurilla warfare, and history has definately taught us that Afghanistan is not a place to tread lightly, but these recent developments of the Taliban saying "No more!" is sort of making the current invasion an exception to the rule.
The Vietcong, and the country of Vietnam, we so thoroughly beaten on a fundamental (ableit not political level) that they are still recovering to this day. For all practical purposes, that war is only a loss in terms of spirit.
The only way that the Taliban will be destroyed is if A) The governments in that region clean up their acts
the government was either run or heavily influenced by the taliban.
B) The Pakistan and Indian pissing match needs to stop
agreed
And C) Stop trying to put this as a conventional war it doesn't
agreed, and in terms of operating it really is not being fought conventionally. Just ask any veterans that come back; theyre out there, walking the town, askign questions...our soldiers our more like detectives over there than frontline infantry.
Furthermore this "we don't negotiate with terrorists" rhetoric is hypocritical and laughable
Yea I can see your point, but negotiating really is a slippery slope, not to mention that theyre the bad guys in the first place, and we really shouldnt have this problem. No kidnappings, no problems, essentially.
The United States does it constantly, make matters worse we still use Blackwater a evangelical extremist mercenary group that is never held accountable for what they do over there.. Contractors from there got the proverbial slap on the wrist for heinous crimes
I agree I really hate both the use of private contracters, and the precedent they set for the future (as much as I hate them, they are extremely effective)
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]
seriously :lol:
as I said before, they have suddenly realized they have bit off more than they can chew. You dont just say "ooooh, our bad, sorry we dont like those guys any more" and everything is ok
... Uhh bit off before they chew? The attack on the Taliban has been pre-emptiive like 99% of everything in the past decade by the United States.. Furthermore the Taliban supposedly got "wiped out" a few years back under the Bush adminstration, but now they are back ... Hmmm.. I've forwarded your posts to the FBI. ... Not sure what kind of a joke that is.. I guess people just can't have a difference of a opinion on the United States foriegn policy for the past 5 decades..[QUOTE="Pirate700"]They have never said we are fighting a losing battle in terms of forces. The Taliban is a joke. .. The general has already went forward to Obama saying they need more men.. Thats a losing battle, it doesn't matter how many people the Taliban loses there will be plenty of people to take over, its the land and areas they are holding onto and making unsafe.. Thats exactly how Vietnam was.. It's not a losing battle. We could turn them into a glass parking lot in the blink of an eye. We don't lose wars.[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Tell me, when has Taliban exactly directly attacked the United States? Its a waste of resources and its not doing anything for the war.. Furthermore the top generals have already said that they are fighting a losing battle and need more men.. This is Iraq 2.0.sSubZerOo
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
We don't lose wars.
Gamer4Iife
You might wanna check your history book again.
What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.[QUOTE="Gamer4Iife"]
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
We don't lose wars.
Pirate700
You might wanna check your history book again.
What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.oh yea?What do you count as a loss then?
I think we should withdraw. See how they do for a while without another country's military on their soil.
If they terrorise it up or if the US gets any hints of any soon-coming attacks then they should bomb the hell out of the places where they think are taliban hotspots. Something like that.
What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
[QUOTE="Gamer4Iife"]
You might wanna check your history book again.
ufcfan17
oh yea?What do you count as a loss then?
If we are speaking a language other than english here. Pulling out is NOT losing. We could obliterate the entire continent by lunch if we wanted to. There is a difference between a stalemate and defeat.What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
[QUOTE="Gamer4Iife"]
You might wanna check your history book again.
ufcfan17
oh yea?What do you count as a loss then?
I'd say being beaten on the playing field counts as a loss.
as I said earlier, Vietnam was a political loss but in terms an actualwar, no, we beat their ass.
That's quite interesting don't you think? How badly are they pressed by the war that they have made a complete turn around on there aims for destruction of the western world, to now "leave us alone we only wanna keep to ourselves.."
That's quite interesting don't you think? How badly are they pressed by the war that they have made a complete turn around on there aims for destruction of the western world, to now "leave us alone we only wanna keep to ourselves.."
RiseAgainst12
well I for one would like to hear what the non-Taliban afghanis have to say. I wonder if they still want to beat their women, live in a fuedal, tribal society, and live without internet *gasp*
What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.
Pirate700
They pulled out because they realised they were losing, it's the same thing really. The US entered the war in order to prevent North Vietnam from obtaining power, they failed.
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.
Gamer4Iife
They pulled out because they realised they were losing, it's the same thing really. The US entered the war in order to prevent North Vietnam from obtaining power, they failed.
It's still not a loss though. Again, we could have made N. Viet not even exist if we needed them to not have power. That's not a loss.[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.
Gamer4Iife
They pulled out because they realised they were losing, it's the same thing really. The US entered the war in order to prevent North Vietnam from obtaining power, they failed.
touche, after all, a war like that has a political goal and if you fail to get it, you lost, no matter how bad a spanking the enemy got.
[QUOTE="Gamer4Iife"]
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
What was the last one we lost? Vietnam? We pulled out because the cause wasn't worth it anymore. It may be the same in this case but I don't count that as a loss.
mrbojangles25
They pulled out because they realised they were losing, it's the same thing really. The US entered the war in order to prevent North Vietnam from obtaining power, they failed.
touche, after all, a war like that has a political goal and if you fail to get it, you lost, no matter how bad a spanking the enemy got.
Exactly. Like I said, we didn't fail militarily. Politically we did.yeah there lying
but really how do you beat terrorism thats like defeating a idea its almost impossible the war on terror is almost like a war on liberalism or conservatism on a much more extreme basiseven furthering there beliefs in there ideas..its almost impossible to snuff out but i hope we can atleast contain it..
Tell me, when has Taliban exactly directly attacked the United States? Its a waste of resources and its not doing anything for the war.. Furthermore the top generals have already said that they are fighting a losing battle and need more men.. This is Iraq 2.0.They have never said we are fighting a losing battle in terms of forces. The Taliban is a joke. Yes a joke , a joke that you have been to war with for almost 9 years now. USA needs to learn not to underestimate their enemies.[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]:lol: Yeah ok pal.
Pirate700
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]They have never said we are fighting a losing battle in terms of forces. The Taliban is a joke. Yes a joke , a joke that you have been to war with for almost 9 years now. USA needs to learn not to underestimate their enemies.It takes years to win a political war. We aren't over there to conquer the place.[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] Tell me, when has Taliban exactly directly attacked the United States? Its a waste of resources and its not doing anything for the war.. Furthermore the top generals have already said that they are fighting a losing battle and need more men.. This is Iraq 2.0.7addadster
It's absurd to suggest that they ever posed a threat to the Western world.
The notion that they did is merely a pretext for establishing a military presence on Iran's eastern flank.
Of course, it's also desirable to have a military presence in the neighborhood of the hydrocarbon-rich Caspian Sea basin to ensure that those 12 trillion Dollars' worth of hydrocarbons will be exploited by Western companies, rather than by Russia or Iran.
[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"]
That's quite interesting don't you think? How badly are they pressed by the war that they have made a complete turn around on there aims for destruction of the western world, to now "leave us alone we only wanna keep to ourselves.."
mrbojangles25
well I for one would like to hear what the non-Taliban afghanis have to say. I wonder if they still want to beat their women, live in a fuedal, tribal society, and live without internet *gasp*
Maybe thats why the world hates Americans so much, why ? Because that post makes people like me, from other nations, look at Americans in a completely wrong way , people would see you as an arrogant nation. Although Im sure not all Americans think like you do.[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"]
That's quite interesting don't you think? How badly are they pressed by the war that they have made a complete turn around on there aims for destruction of the western world, to now "leave us alone we only wanna keep to ourselves.."
well I for one would like to hear what the non-Taliban afghanis have to say. I wonder if they still want to beat their women, live in a fuedal, tribal society, and live without internet *gasp*
Exactly.. they now realise they are losing a war with NATO and also losing the war in-terms of popular support. This would be the worst time possible for America to loosen it's stance against the Taliban and also to make the Afghan people feel they will abondon them soon.Exactly. Like I said, we didn't fail militarily. Politically we did.
Pirate700
Right, I never said that the US failed militarily. My point is that the US did lose a war.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091007/ts_nm/us_afghanistan_taliban_anniversary What's everyones opinion on this? Do you think they are telling the truth? The Taliban movement say they only want to build Iraq and Afghanistan into a unified Islam state, but the U.S. and NATO believe that if we withdrew our forces, these areas would become safe havens for Al Qaeda millitants and terrorists/ Islam extremists. I wouldn't really know what to do either way, makes me glad I wasn't elected president. =/bobstos
Yeah, and My GrandParents dont wear Diapers.
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
Exactly. Like I said, we didn't fail militarily. Politically we did.
Gamer4Iife
Right, I never said that the US failed militarily. My point is that the US did lose a war.
Yea the important thing is that they failed,militarily or politically doesn't really matter.
[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"]
That's quite interesting don't you think? How badly are they pressed by the war that they have made a complete turn around on there aims for destruction of the western world, to now "leave us alone we only wanna keep to ourselves.."
7addadster
well I for one would like to hear what the non-Taliban afghanis have to say. I wonder if they still want to beat their women, live in a fuedal, tribal society, and live without internet *gasp*
Maybe thats why the world hates Americans so much, why ? Because that post makes people like me, from other nations, look at Americans in a completely wrong way , people would see you as an arrogant nation. Although Im sure not all Americans think like you do.dude one of the Taliban's jobs was to enforce the barebones, fundamental aspects of their religion without any room for modernity. If your wife did something wrong (often a trivial thing), and you did not beat her for it, the Taliban would do it for you.
My friend got back fro mAfghanistan and he says the non-Taliban men would beat their wives for doing these things because they knew that if they didnt, the Talibian would beat their wives harder and even kill them. So, as odd as it sounds, their husbands didnt want to actually beat them but were doing a favor by doing so.
So, going back to my original post, I really dont think they want to return to the old ways.
[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"]
That's quite interesting don't you think? How badly are they pressed by the war that they have made a complete turn around on there aims for destruction of the western world, to now "leave us alone we only wanna keep to ourselves.."
well I for one would like to hear what the non-Taliban afghanis have to say. I wonder if they still want to beat their women, live in a fuedal, tribal society, and live without internet *gasp*
Maybe thats why the world hates Americans so much, why ? Because that post makes people like me, from other nations, look at Americans in a completely wrong way , people would see you as an arrogant nation. Although Im sure not all Americans think like you do. I think you grasped the wrong end of what he was saying...[QUOTE="Gamer4Iife"]
[QUOTE="Pirate700"]
Exactly. Like I said, we didn't fail militarily. Politically we did.
ufcfan17
Right, I never said that the US failed militarily. My point is that the US did lose a war.
Yea the important thing is that they failed,militarily or politically doesn't really matter.
i guess, but its nice to put perspective on things instead of simply saying "win/lose" you know?
[QUOTE="7addadster"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]Maybe thats why the world hates Americans so much, why ? Because that post makes people like me, from other nations, look at Americans in a completely wrong way , people would see you as an arrogant nation. Although Im sure not all Americans think like you do. I think you grasped the wrong end of what he was saying...well I for one would like to hear what the non-Taliban afghanis have to say. I wonder if they still want to beat their women, live in a fuedal, tribal society, and live without internet *gasp*
RiseAgainst12
I think he did too lol, though I can understand w hy he thought i was generalizing
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