Texas Senate OKs Guns at Colleges

[QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"][QUOTE="Sajo7"] Don't strawman my argument. Enforcing the law is way different from a venue were alcohol and drugs are used regularly and in high quantities.supercubedude64

Strawman. Why refute an arguement when you can distract from it?

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]Or someone thinks you're the shooter and shoots you Or it's a drunk kid who thinks it'd be funny to pull a gun out Or the kid took acid and is just acting crazy Or a heated fight escalates and the tension reaches the point where guns are drawn Or someone doesn't put there safety on Or....Sajo7

Are you talking about police officers? The same could be applied. Do you think cops shouldn't have guns?

Cops can't drink on duty. Citizens with CWP's can't carry when drinking. If either do, they have broken the law and are under identical circumstances. I fail to see your "argument".

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

Are you talking about police officers? The same could be applied. Do you think cops shouldn't have guns?

luamhtrad

Cops can't drink on duty. Citizens with CWP's can't carry when drinking. If either do, they have broken the law and are under identical circumstances. I fail to see your "argument".

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

Are you talking about police officers? The same could be applied. Do you think cops shouldn't have guns?

luamhtrad

Cops can't drink on duty. Citizens with CWP's can't carry when drinking. If either do, they have broken the law and are under identical circumstances. I fail to see your "argument".

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="Sajo7"] Don't strawman my argument. Enforcing the law is way different from a venue were alcohol and drugs are used regularly and in high quantities.Sajo7

Cops can't drink on duty. Citizens with CWP's can't carry when drinking. If either do, they have broken the law and are under identical circumstances. I fail to see your "argument".

No, but that would be illegal and voids the validity of "law abiding citizen" to which this law applies. Don't punish all for the folly of a few.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="fat_rob"]Horrible analogy, Kindergarten kids are not of legal age to own a hand gun. Some schools in Utah already allow this and there have been no shootings at those schools. My school has had no incidents. It's not a big deal because most people who bother to go through the trouble of getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon are not going to go on a shooting rampage or do something stupid because of all the paper work attached to their name. And no policy will prevent some lunatic from doing what he or she wants. It's a non-issue really. So people are carrying weapons, so what? At least now you KNOW that someone in your class is likely strapped...fat_rob

Looks like alot of students will be getting extentions on projects very easily. "You gotta problem with it being a day late Mr. Teacher...well do ya punk?"

[QUOTE="cmpepper23"]

I attend UT and can say this is a big deal here. A month or so ago over 200 students wlked out of class and marched down Congress St. to the capital to protest this. I personally am glad to see it passed because I feel a lot safer knowing I can carry my gun to school just in case someone decides to flip and go on a killing spree. Long ago UT had the tower sniper and just last year a student was caught carrying a gun on campus who was somewhat unstable. This is great news for me.

Sajo7

These are all what ifs, and can happen regardless of whether this law was passed or not. We don't get drunk, trip cid, or whatever else and go to class to wave guns around. UT is renown academic university, which leads me to believe our student body is not as ignorant/reckless as some of your scenarios imply. Remember we aren't talking about carrying guns to parties or late night activites, we are talking about going to class. Yes we party a lot, but we aren't going to get drunk reinact the Wild West on campus.

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]Is it so hard to think that a college student might drink and carry a firearm?luamhtrad

No, but that would be illegal and voids the validity of "law abiding citizen" to which this law applies. Don't punish all for the folly of a few.

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="Sajo7"] Don't strawman my argument. Enforcing the law is way different from a venue were alcohol and drugs are used regularly and in high quantities.Jandurin

Cops can't drink on duty. Citizens with CWP's can't carry when drinking. If either do, they have broken the law and are under identical circumstances. I fail to see your "argument".

No. There are plenty of "plain clothes" officers who are not undercover. They don't have to announce that they are police officers. Detectives are the most common form. The point of concealing a weapon legally, is that no one should ever know you have one unless you are forced to use it. You can't show it or pull it out unless it is the last resort to resolving a potentially lethal situation.

This'll totally end well.

Theokhoth

Yeah you're right. The Viriginia Tech shootings ended well when nobody had a gun to fight back or deter the gunman who killed thirty-some people.....:roll:

I would recite a poem...but...

[QUOTE="fat_rob"]

[QUOTE="jointed"] It's an analogy, not a comparison and therefore its the idea of allowing people to carry concealed weapons in order to protect themselves against something which most likely will not happen and therefore making the act of carrying guns around more risky than the actual concept of a school shooting....that matters. And if everyone is "strapped" it will just escalate the whole thing. Do you really believe that someone just spontaneously decides to go on a rampage? These guys usually plan the whole thing for months...paperwork is the least of their problems and if they know that there are possible threats present when they get to the school, they'll probably just carry larger guns and more protection.jointed

Countdown to school shooting, starting.....NOW!Big_Bad_Sad

I could start a school shooting on my campus where guns aren't allowed...

Use logic people.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

This'll totally end well.

trix5817

Yeah you're right. The Viriginia Tech shootings ended well when nobody had a gun to fight back or deter the gunman who killed thirty-some people.....:roll:

People who go through the CWP process know how to handle their weapons...incidents on these campuses involving students with CWP's will be rare...if not non-existent. fat_rob

[QUOTE="fat_rob"][QUOTE="jointed"] Weapons don't belong at an academic institute of education and I doubt this is going to prevent anything.jointed

Children don't get all the freedoms adults do for a reason...they aren't mature and resposible yet. You're logic is flawed.

well this narrows down my college choices

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]Is it so hard to think that a college student might drink and carry a firearm?Sajo7

No, but that would be illegal and voids the validity of "law abiding citizen" to which this law applies. Don't punish all for the folly of a few.

This law is designed to increase safety rather than diminish it. Who are you to judge the legal responsibilities of 21 year old college students?

[QUOTE="fat_rob"]It's not a big deal because most people who bother to go through the trouble of getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon are not going to go on a shooting rampage or do something stupid because of all the paper work attached to their name.Sajo7

You don't need paperwork to buy a gun illegally. Most criminals do not buy their guns legally...

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="fat_rob"]It's a horrible analogy. This law concerns adults who legally are permitted to carry concealed weapons. No laws are broken here and no one is "giving" them guns in order to protect themselves. Your kindergarten analogy holds no weight because it contains none of those characteristics. I am saying that this law has no effect on any potential school shootings since it only effects people who bother to abide by the law and get a concealed weapons permit. A lunatic going on a shooting rampage is likely not going to be a person with a cwp, therefore discussions of school shootings is completely irrelevant.

fat_rob

Is there anywhere in Texas where you can't bring a gun now? >.>zakkro

Yes...any place with a big enough sign stating NO FIREARMS.

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]Punish? College campuses are quite safe. Why then do we need to increase the chance of firearm related accidents?

luamhtrad

This law is designed to increase safety rather than diminish it. Who are you to judge the legal responsibilities of 21 year old college students?

[QUOTE="fat_rob"][QUOTE="jointed"] Nope, it has got nothing to do with the legality of it, you'll have to use a little abstract thinking here...actually, the only thing you need to grasp is the idea of the protection being more risky than the possible threat. I'm saying that the act of bringing guns to an institute of education, regardless of how you've obtained them, is more threatening than what they're trying to protect themselves against. jointed

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]Punish? College campuses are quite safe. Why then do we need to increase the chance of firearm related accidents?

Sajo7

This law is designed to increase safety rather than diminish it. Who are you to judge the legal responsibilities of 21 year old college students?

It increases safety in the sense that people with a cwp will now feel safer that they can protect themselves from trouble. Others might not like it, as I said we had plenty of protests, but the law is the law and at the end of the day I would rather have my gun on me just in case than be caught in a situation where I am helpless. I do carry a knife, but everyone knows you don't carry a knife to a gunfight...unless you can throw them like V.

having lived in this situation for three years, I can tell from experience that you are wrong. People who go through the CWP process know how to handle their weapons...incidents on these campuses involving students with CWP's will be rare...if not non-existent. fat_rob

Countdown to school shooting, starting.....NOW!Big_Bad_Sad

Well, it won't be a shooting now. It'll be a shootout.

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

Cops can't drink on duty. Citizens with CWP's can't carry when drinking. If either do, they have broken the law and are under identical circumstances. I fail to see your "argument".

luamhtrad

No, but that would be illegal and voids the validity of "law abiding citizen" to which this law applies. Don't punish all for the folly of a few.

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

This law is designed to increase safety rather than diminish it. Who are you to judge the legal responsibilities of 21 year old college students?

It increases safety in the sense that people with a cwp will now feel safer that they can protect themselves from trouble. Others might not like it, as I said we had plenty of protests, but the law is the law and at the end of the day I would rather have my gun on me just in case than be caught in a situation where I am helpless. I do carry a knife, but everyone knows you don't a knife to a gunfight unless you can throw them like V.

It increases safety in the sense that people with a cwp will now feel safer that they can protect themselves from trouble. Others might not like it, as I said we had plenty of protests, but the law is the law and at the end of the day I would rather have my gun on me just in case than be caught in a situation where I am helpless. I do carry a knife, but everyone knows you don't a knife to a gunfight unless you can throw them like V.cmpepper23

[QUOTE="fat_rob"] People who go through the CWP process know how to handle their weapons...incidents on these campuses involving students with CWP's will be rare...if not non-existent. Sajo7

[QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="fat_rob"] having lived in this situation for three years, I can tell from experience that you are wrong. People who go through the CWP process know how to handle their weapons...incidents on these campuses involving students with CWP's will be rare...if not non-existent. fat_rob

[QUOTE="fat_rob"][QUOTE="jointed"] Using common sense, I know I'm 100 % right. It doesn't matter how allegedly "trained" these bozos are, accidents happen and people aren't perfect, especially not mentally. The very presence of guns on a college would, as I mentioned, most likely also provoke an even greater response from the suicidal nutjobs.

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="fat_rob"] People who go through the CWP process know how to handle their weapons...incidents on these campuses involving students with CWP's will be rare...if not non-existent. fat_rob

Go Texas! However this won't make a difference. Everyone around my school (Texas Tech) owns guns anyway. My friend has 4 rifles and 6 pistols that he keeps in a safe at his house. This really isn't going to make a difference as guns are everywhere around here already.

[QUOTE="cmpepper23"]

[QUOTE="Sajo7"] Explain to me then how it increases safety then. The second part of your post doesn't really make sense since the entire thread concerns the judgment of legal responsibility.sSubZerOo

It increases safety in the sense that people with a cwp will now feel safer that they can protect themselves from trouble. Others might not like it, as I said we had plenty of protests, but the law is the law and at the end of the day I would rather have my gun on me just in case than be caught in a situation where I am helpless. I do carry a knife, but everyone knows you don't a knife to a gunfight unless you can throw them like V.

You don't want to carry a gun that's your choice, I do. Do I need to? Not neccessarily, but it is my decision to do so.

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]Punish? College campuses are quite safe. Why then do we need to increase the chance of firearm related accidents?

Sajo7

This law is designed to increase safety rather than diminish it. Who are you to judge the legal responsibilities of 21 year old college students?

An individual who wishes to commit a crime on campus decreases safety as a byproduct. Said individual would be less likely to commit said crime on a campus where the target(s) of said crime might be able to aptly defend themselves with equal or greater force. You have stated that college students are inclined to "drink and do drugs". They arelegally responsible to uphold the law whether or not they have a gun. In fact for the majority, legal gun ownership demands greater legal responsibility. The state of Texas agrees with this sentiment. What empirical evidence do you have to contradict this?

I don't see a problem with this ruling.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="fat_rob"]Your "common sense" goes against the empirical evidence of experience...find an example of a school that allows CWP's and has had an incident involving a gun...seriously, try and find one... fat_rob

[QUOTE="cmpepper23"]It increases safety in the sense that people with a cwp will now feel safer that they can protect themselves from trouble. Others might not like it, as I said we had plenty of protests, but the law is the law and at the end of the day I would rather have my gun on me just in case than be caught in a situation where I am helpless. I do carry a knife, but everyone knows you don't a knife to a gunfight unless you can throw them like V.Sajo7

That's my point. I was in the minority on this, but you must know that Austin is a very liberal city and our campus reflects that.

Long ago UT had the tower sniper and just last year a student was caught carrying a gun on campus who was somewhat unstable. This is great news for me.

cmpepper23

Go Texas! However this won't make a difference. Everyone around my school (Texas Tech) owns guns anyway. My friend has 4 rifles and 6 pistols that he keeps in a safe at his house. This really isn't going to make a difference as guns are everywhere around here already.

Smoke89

Go Texas! However this won't make a difference. Everyone around my school (Texas Tech) owns guns anyway. My friend has 4 rifles and 6 pistols that he keeps in a safe at his house. This really isn't going to make a difference as guns are everywhere around here already.

Smoke89

Very true. Here in Austin not many people own guns, but in the area where I'm from, just about everyone I know has at least 2 or 3 guns at their house. My dad has an arsenal of guns. Is it necessary? No. It's just the way things are here in Texas.

An individual who wishes to commit a crime on campus decreases safety as a byproduct. Said individual would be less likely to commit said crime on a campus where the target(s) of said crime might be able to aptly defend themselves with equal or greater force. You have stated that college students are inclined to "drink and do drugs". They arelegally responsible to uphold the law whether or not they have a gun. In fact for the majority, legal gun ownership demands greater legal responsibility. The state of Texas agrees with this sentiment. What empirical evidence do you have to contradict this?luamhtrad

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

This'll totally end well.

xaos

Yeah you're right. The Viriginia Tech shootings ended well when nobody had a gun to fight back or deter the gunman who killed thirty-some people.....:roll:

So you're saying that 30+ people would have died because veveryone would be shooting each other? It's not that difficult to identify a mad gunman walking into the ****oom and killing people one by one...

Maybe police shouldn't carry guns either. Or maybe the National Guard shouldn't of carried guns patrolling the streets of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina because a "firefight" could of started and somehow 100+ people would die getting caught in the crossfire.

If anything, this will deter an insane person from doing this. At least at that school. If you're goal is to kill 30+ people and then kill yourself, doing it at a Texas college probably isn't the best idea, considering you'd be dead as soon as you shot the first person...