The best proof of god

If you dont beilive in god why would you value morality? Whats the point? Isnt good and evil the best prove of god? Why are some people good and some are evil? why arent we like robots? Isnt that enough of a proof of god?

No, it isn't

And the idea that there are people out there that conceivably only hold morals out of fear of divine reprimand or reward is terrifying.

Good and evil are subjective.

all of which has nothing to do with god.

its not god who dictates what we think is moral, or what we view as good or bad.

ultimately, its how we are raised. then as we age, we decide for ourselves.

You'd be surprised how many people around here feel the same way the TC does. If they ever stop believing in God, they're probably going on a killing spree...

If your religion is the only thing keeping you away from becoming some kind of murderous torture-rapist, you have some serious issues and should not be allowed human contact.

Also, "best" proof? It's not proof and noone has ever found any proof (or hints for that matter) of a god's existense....

Ha ha. That's funny. But seriously though, I've sometimes wondered a bit about Christians. Because unlike non-spiritual types they seem sooooooo nice and accommodating - but I have to wonder, do they REALLY like me or are they just being nice so they can get into Heaven?

Some people on this planet are nice and some people are mean.

And this proves that "God" exists how exactly?

Fvck me dead I've missed you

No .

Cool, we havnt had a religion.thread on off topic for a while.

I dont understand why some religoius folk think all our morals come from their holy book of choice.

In the bible there are good and bad messages, then you pick and choose whats good and fits our society.

To do that would mean we already have morals independent from bible, Quran, Torah. Etc

lolno

The problem of evil is a classic reason to not believe in a God. And really, the Christian God created everything, including the devil and lets the devil do evil things. Christians try to deny it, but this is part of their theology.

At least Zoroastrians have the ability to say their God didn't create evil, and actively tries to defeat it at every turn. It's the only monotheistic theology that I know of that actually doesn't attribute the creation of evil to the main deity.

That all said, only the weak-minded decide that they would only be "moral" if there is fear of retribution from an eternal punishment for their actions. The strong-minded know that morality stems from their choice to act with respect and dignity towards their fellow human being for it's own sake, rather than doing so for reward or punishment.

lol, proof of god.

nothing could demonstrate the complete lack of understand of how any religion works.

i would like to say i expect more from the religious but of course i don't.

@Alienware_fan: omg, i am so sick of that argument. Why do you we have laws? Not because of gods. I am an atheist and i have morals. So you're saying you can't have morals without god? Wrong! you do have a conscience and everyone has morals...

Of course you can't have morals as an atheist...Christians worldwide have been making videos in their cars about it =P

>I need faith in god to understand right from wrong

@darkspineslayer:

"And the idea that there are people out there that conceivably only hold morals out of fear of divine reprimand or reward is terrifying."

I tell you what's more terrifying, that people are out there that think they can do bad things to others without consequences.

I agree, but I'm thinking the same people might be in both situations...in one while they believe in God, and in the other if they ever stop believing.

I'd say a great deal of people are entirely correct in assuming that.

I swear I could give LOT better proofs of there being a God. But you just ..... gave out the worst one. Nobody's gonna believe you with that.

@korvus: "I agree, but I'm thinking the same people might be in both situations...in one while they believe in God, and in the other if they ever stop believing."

I think that it boils down to fact that there are good and bad people I don't think any amount of religion can stop a bad person being bad. But Christianity teaches forgiveness, a Christian can sin but if they repent their sins are forgiven no matter how bad, so the idea that Christianity is a man made thing to make people behave and follow a set of morals makes no sense, as a Christian you can do bad things and still enter the gates of heaven.

As many problems I have with this, that's how I was taught as well. Apparently the TC disagrees.

@Alienware_fan: Please explain to me how it's even the slightest bit proof of anything...

Good and evil is the result of a human construct. If you define god as an idea, then yes, it exists. I don't need the idea of god to want to be a good person. I want to be a good person because, generally, what goes around comes around. Niceness is reciprocated.

There's really no reason to believe or care about anything like god. Who cares? just try to be a good person for your own sake. It just feels better than being a shitty person.

It's because we developed a forebrain with a large frontal lobe.

imo the best proof of god, or rather the supernatural soul, is consciousness. I don't see why we have it. Supposedly our brains are just chemistry, making the activity in the brain no more special than a rock tumbling down a slope. It's all just particles reacting to each other, so why should the specific batch of particles in my brain house a unique felt quality? One could say that our brains are designed to have a felt quality, but to me that sounds the same as a tamagouchi pet actually being hungry, or for my character in The Sims to actually be depressed because I lit his house on fire.

So yeah, that's not proof of God exactly, but I just don't think that science and nature account for everything. That's at least a good starting point to believe in God. A different way of saying "I think therefore I am" I suppose

That's just an appeal to ignorance. You don't know how consciousness works, so god did it. That's no different than believing in a god because you don't know how lightning works.

@MrGeezer: "That's no different than believing in a god because you don't know how lightning works."

It's a lot different actually. We know how lightening works. No one knows how conciousness works.

OP didnt

People DIDN'T know how lightning works, which is why they came up with gods to explain it. And guess what? The whole "god did it" aspect turned out to be a load of trash. So yeah, it is exactly the same.

"I don't know how something works, so god must be responsible" is always garbage. Even in the event that god is responsible, that train of thought is still based on faulty logic since the first part (ignorance) has no connection to the second part (god existing).

@MrGeezer: ""I don't know how something works, so god must be responsible" is always garbage."

There comes a point where science breaks down, it's pretty weird how science can't answer the really big questions, kinda like that knowledge that is held back from human comprehension, will science ever be able to unlock that knowledge?

That's nonsense. The Lord exists, 'tis true, but this does not qualify as a proof of existence in any imagination. Also, please capitalize God. It's a proper noun.

Now, to answer the questions.
1) Before I was saved, I had a moral compass, albeit a bit looser than many others. Humans tend toward compassion and do, generally, want to help one another and live in a community together. Having "morals" leads to this end.
2) See #1.
3) No, not really, no. Also, what is evil? Is it a demon or just what is deemed unacceptable by the society in which you live?
4) "Good is a point of view Anakin." What one considers good or immoral can vary greatly from another person. Hence, in the U.S., we have near 50/50 splits over abortion and other issues since different people believe different things are "good" or "evil."
5) In many ways we are, it's part of the price of civilization, which leads back to answer number one.
6) No. Learn the scientific method then try again! :)

Whats wrong with being a torturer rapist? WE all do what we want, what we enjoy. How do we know being a rapist is a bad thing?

@Motokid6: That post reminded me of George Carlin's "Religion is Bullshit" =P

If you only value morality because of your religion then you're just a pos who will never be able to understand others perspectives.

so when can we expect another "sniper" alt

Some of the worst "evil" deeds thats happened in history have been done in the name of god......