The Death Penalty

noone has the right to put anyone else to death, no matter the circumstances.

if a person is a threat to society then sure lock them up, karma will take care of their punishment, in this life or the next. It is beyond us to think we can possibly decide someone elses fate fairly.

every person deserves to live, the good will live a good life like they deserve, like a reward for their good living, where as the bad will suffer a bad life, a life which will punish them for their crimes. it just depends when karma catches up with them

_zeldredz_

well what about the good innocent people who are victims of horrific crimesdsman418

Killing the person who commited the crime isn't going to undo the crime. Revenge is not a legitimate reason to risk murdering yet another innocent person. See, the problem here is that if you are going to argue that murder is totally unacceptable - worthy of execution - you must also argue that having even a single innocent person executed by accident is unacceptable. And we have seen examples in the past where someone was 'conclusively' convicted and executed, only to be later exonerated thanks to new evidence.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that murder is unacceptable, yet risk commiting it yourself just for the sake of revenge. If the death penalty served some other practical and important benefit, then it may be a more difficult call. But as it stands, revenge is the ONLY real function of the death penalty. The reduction of prison populations is negligible and the deterrent effect is obviously not much of a deterrent, as clearly evidenced by thousands of years in which the death penalty has been practiced to punish violent crime but violent crime has not been eliminated.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

Well, with all the stupid religion and "X candidate sucks" threads, I figured, how about a good topic on a single controversial issue?

As for my views, I'm rather divided. I wouldn't be comfortable unless the said executed was 100% proven guilty. I wouldn't want to risk killing an innocent.

Aside from that, I'm unsure.

bsman00

Well i dont believe in the electric chair, i believe in the electric bench line em all up and let them Fry!

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="kool-aids"]

Well I have a cheap easy solution that costs only $.50.

A lead bullet to the head.

MrGeezer

:roll:

Why is it that so many death penalty proponents don't even understand the most basic issues involving it? It's not the execution itself that is expensive. It's making sure that you don't kill an innocent person that's expensive. We don't need drum-head justice in this country.

Hey, it's not like I'M ever gonna end up on death row for a crime that I didn't commit.

It may cut crime a little bit, but how is it any different from putting an innocent person in prison. They are going to spend the rest of their lives in there anyway, so its not different.

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="SunofVich"]

I think we need to streamline the death penalty process. As soon as there is a conviction they need to be executed. None of this expensive chemical crap, no high powered electrlc chairs, and no waiting for years on death row. Hanging or firing squad will suffice. as bullets are cheap and a noose can be re-used.

Death penalty should be reserved for: Pedophiles, murderers, rapists, and politicians who lie to the people.

blackldragon

So...you think that we should execute innocent people?

Do you know how low the percentage is of innocent people who are convicted to the death penalty.

Oh wow now thats damage control if I ever heard it. So even if 1 or 2 innocents are put to death than it's alright. The ends justify the means?

Absolutley.

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"]

Do you know how low the percentage is of innocent people who are convicted to the death penalty.

pianist

Is even one justifiable? How do you explain to that person's family that you executed him or her for a crime he or she didn't commit? Sorry, but this is a terrible argument.

This is not a perfect worl. what do you tell the family of the victims when the person who murdered the person who they love most gets out on parol and goes and kills someone else. You sir have the flawed argument.

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="kingyotoX"]

Do you know how low the percentage is of innocent people who are convicted to the death penalty.

kingyotoX

Is even one justifiable? How do you explain to that person's family that you executed him or her for a crime he or she didn't commit? Sorry, but this is a terrible argument.

This is not a perfect worl. what do you tell the family of the victims when the person who murdered the person who they love most gets out on parol and goes and kills someone else. You sir have the flawed argument.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="kool-aids"]

Well I have a cheap easy solution that costs only $.50.

A lead bullet to the head.

kool-aids

:roll:

Why is it that so many death penalty proponents don't even understand the most basic issues involving it? It's not the execution itself that is expensive. It's making sure that you don't kill an innocent person that's expensive. We don't need drum-head justice in this country.

Hey, it's not like I'M ever gonna end up on death row for a crime that I didn't commit.

It may cut crime a little bit, but how is it any different from putting an innocent person in prison. They are going to spend the rest of their lives in there anyway, so its not different.

It's absolutely different. If it's discovered that someone was wrongly imprisoned, THEY CAN BE RELEASED.

Meanwhile, if someone is wrongly executed, we can't exactly bring them back to life, can we?

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="kingyotoX"]

Do you know how low the percentage is of innocent people who are convicted to the death penalty.

kingyotoX

Is even one justifiable? How do you explain to that person's family that you executed him or her for a crime he or she didn't commit? Sorry, but this is a terrible argument.

This is not a perfect worl. what do you tell the family of the victims when the person who murdered the person who they love most gets out on parol and goes and kills someone else. You sir have the flawed argument.

Uh...that's what life without parole is for. :|

This is not a perfect worl. what do you tell the family of the victims when the person who murdered the person who they love most gets out on parol and goes and kills someone else. You sir have the flawed argument.

kingyotoX

You tell the family of the victims that revenge will not bring the loved one back. As for parole... what do you think a life sentence with no chance of parole is for?

Edit - looks like MrGeezer beat me to it. Clearly it is your understanding of the current judicial system that is flawed, not my argument.

Well, with all the stupid religion and "X candidate sucks" threads, I figured, how about a good topic on a single controversial issue?

As for my views, I'm rather divided. I wouldn't be comfortable unless the said executed was 100% proven guilty. I wouldn't want to risk killing an innocent.

Aside from that, I'm unsure.

PannicAtack

Same here pretty much.

I have to look at this way, if I had a child and they were raped and murdered, i would want the death penalty for the piece of trash who did it. Hom3_Pwn3r

Of course you would. And that's precisely why you should have no say in the matter whatsoever. People will feel an urge to kill other people over a number of much less serious crimes, too, and victims of crimes will not be able to judge their situation with anything that could be construed as objectivity.

Revenge killings solve nothing. Impartial justice is a really, really good idea.

[QUOTE="Hom3_Pwn3r"]I have to look at this way, if I had a child and they were raped and murdered, i would want the death penalty for the piece of trash who did it. pianist

Of course you would. And that's precisely why you should have no say in the matter whatsoever. People will feel an urge to kill other people over a number of much less serious crimes, too, and victims of crimes will not be able to judge their situation with anything that could be construed as objectivity.

Revenge killings solve nothing. Impartial justice is a really, really good idea.

I'll clarify my position.

If you kill a child, you don't deserve to be alive. Simply how i feel. Does this have any legal significance or provide me with an argument? No. I simply do not feel you should be here if you commit such a crime. Looking at that, I don't believe it's fair to say that a death penalty should be ruled out for other cases involving adults.
Hom3_Pwn3r

Your position was perfectly clear, but it is illogical and emotion-driven. An adult is no less a human being than a child. That's like saying a pig suffers less when you kill it than a puppy because the puppy is cuter. And revenge is still the only motivation for employing the death penalty. Revenge isn't worth the possibility of executing someone who is innocent.

I am disgusted by murderers, too. But I am staunchly opposed to the death penalty because justice is conducted by humans in our society and humans make mistakes. Executing the wrong person is an irreversible mistake, and it has happened far too many times, considering that even once is one time too many.

[QUOTE="Hom3_Pwn3r"]
I'll clarify my position.

If you kill a child, you don't deserve to be alive. Simply how i feel. Does this have any legal significance or provide me with an argument? No. I simply do not feel you should be here if you commit such a crime. Looking at that, I don't believe it's fair to say that a death penalty should be ruled out for other cases involving adults.
pianist

Your position was perfectly clear, but it is illogical and emotion-driven. An adult is no less a human being than a child. That's like saying a pig suffers less when you kill it than a puppy because the puppy is cuter. And revenge is still the only motivation for employing the death penalty. Revenge isn't worth the possibility of executing someone who is innocent.

I am disgusted by murderers, too. But I am staunchly opposed to the death penalty because justice is conducted by humans in our society and humans make mistakes. Executing the wrong person is an irreversible mistake, and it has happened far too many times, considering that even once is one time too many.

which is why I say anyone who commits murder deserves to die. These people are the scum of the earth, why you would defend rapists and murderers is beyond me. I suppose maybe your a child molester so you sympathise with these disgusting wastes of a life, but if youve ever been raped you would feel differntly. Don't make me out to be heartless becuase I don't want murderers and rapists to live. Your heartless for defending these disgusting creatures.

Ok, Kingyotox you should seriously calm the hell down. He wasnt trying to defend them, he was just saying that by killing them, we descend to their level.atejas

Rofl i'm always calm. "descend to their level" wtf? punishing someone for there crime is not "descending to their level"

I am not morally opposed to it, and maybe it is cost-effective, but enoughs enough I think we need the death penalty back, the leniency of the government is a reason why their are so many crimes.flowdee79

I see life-in-prison as my tax dollars paying for a prisoner to be put up in a motel room for life.

Do I really think rapists, murderers, and pedophiles deserve to live? No. and I'm not keen on paying for their stay. More tax money goes to paying for prison equipment than healthcare or education.

Those found guilty of whatever warrants a life sentence should be shot and buried/cremated all in the same day.

I see life-in-prison as my tax dollars paying for a prisoner to be put up in a motel room for life.

Do I really think rapists, murderers, and pedophiles deserve to live? No. and I'm not keen on paying for their stay. More tax money goes to paying for prison equipment than healthcare or education.

Those found guilty of whatever warrants a life sentence should be shot and buried/cremated all in the same day.

MedicMike66

I see life-in-prison as my tax dollars paying for a prisoner to be put up in a motel room for life.

Do I really think rapists, murderers, and pedophiles deserve to live? No. and I'm not keen on paying for their stay. More tax money goes to paying for prison equipment than healthcare or education.

Those found guilty of whatever warrants a life sentence should be shot and buried/cremated all in the same day.

MedicMike66

IF you kill someone, your rights are tossed out the door.

A life for a life.

[QUOTE="MedicMike66"]

I see life-in-prison as my tax dollars paying for a prisoner to be put up in a motel room for life.

Do I really think rapists, murderers, and pedophiles deserve to live? No. and I'm not keen on paying for their stay. More tax money goes to paying for prison equipment than healthcare or education.

Those found guilty of whatever warrants a life sentence should be shot and buried/cremated all in the same day.

swizz-the-gamer

wrong that does not happen "often" do your research.

Wrong in every situation.swizz-the-gamer

./agree. Human life is nothing to take lightly, no matter what crimes the person has committed.

[QUOTE="MedicMike66"]

I see life-in-prison as my tax dollars paying for a prisoner to be put up in a motel room for life.

Do I really think rapists, murderers, and pedophiles deserve to live? No. and I'm not keen on paying for their stay. More tax money goes to paying for prison equipment than healthcare or education.

Those found guilty of whatever warrants a life sentence should be shot and buried/cremated all in the same day.

foxhound_fox

If there's solid evidence through DNA testing or correlating witness accounts, than I see no problem with them being put to death on the spot -- not a 20 year stint on death row. It has nothing to do with vengeance or my own maliciousness; I would just rather see spending go elsewhere besides accommodating someone like Charles Manson.

As a society, the death penalty doesn't make us morally sound, but what does? The President killed several people in Somalia a few weeks ago and I have found few that objected that.

[QUOTE="Hom3_Pwn3r"]I have to look at this way, if I had a child and they were raped and murdered, i would want the death penalty for the piece of trash who did it. pianist

Of course you would. And that's precisely why you should have no say in the matter whatsoever. People will feel an urge to kill other people over a number of much less serious crimes, too, and victims of crimes will not be able to judge their situation with anything that could be construed as objectivity.

Revenge killings solve nothing. Impartial justice is a really, really good idea.

[QUOTE="flowdee79"]I am not morally opposed to it, and maybe it is cost-effective, but enoughs enough I think we need the death penalty back, the leniency of the government is a reason why their are so many crimes.swizz-the-gamer

Yeah that was I typo, still I think it would send a simple statement to the rapists and murderers out there.

jesus dude, get it through your head, the sole reason for the death penalty is not revenge, its to set an example, even though the example poses no threat to criminals who dont care about life and are not scared of death, u sir have a flawed statementdsman418

I find it quite ironic that you openly admit that the death penalty does not serve a deterrent purpose, and yet continue to claim that it acts as a deterrent. Dude, if it 'poses no threat' to criminals, then it does NOT serve as a deterrent. It's really as simple as that. Thousands of years of history have shown quite conclusively that the death penalty is not the answer to violent crime.

Since you're essentially arguing both positions - that the death penalty sets an example, yet doesn't set an example (because it does not deter violent criminals), I suggest you stick with the correct view, which is the latter. Stop trying to argue that the death penalty sets an example. It simply does not serve that purpose, no matter what death penalty proponents would like to believe.

[QUOTE="pianist"]

Your position was perfectly clear, but it is illogical and emotion-driven. An adult is no less a human being than a child. That's like saying a pig suffers less when you kill it than a puppy because the puppy is cuter. And revenge is still the only motivation for employing the death penalty. Revenge isn't worth the possibility of executing someone who is innocent.

I am disgusted by murderers, too. But I am staunchly opposed to the death penalty because justice is conducted by humans in our society and humans make mistakes. Executing the wrong person is an irreversible mistake, and it has happened far too many times, considering that even once is one time too many.

kingyotoX

which is why I say anyone who commits murder deserves to die. These people are the scum of the earth, why you would defend rapists and murderers is beyond me. I suppose maybe your a child molester so you sympathise with these disgusting wastes of a life, but if youve ever been raped you would feel differntly. Don't make me out to be heartless becuase I don't want murderers and rapists to live. Your heartless for defending these disgusting creatures.

Wow. So I guess only murderers and child molesters oppose the death penalty. :|

I was going to respond to your post, but there really isn't a point. You are apparently incapable of understanding why I am opposed to the death penalty despite the fact that I laid that out very clearly in the very post you quoted, and are no longer debating so much as flinging about insults. As you well know, that's a pretty clear sign that you have been defeated in a debate.

For the record, you need not defend criminal behaviour to oppose specific punishments. Get back to me when you understand that this debate is about a form of punishment, not about the crime itself.

I'm against the death penalty because of the simple fact that people are involved in the process of implementing it. Humans make mistakes, no matter how careful and thorough we are. I cannot justify supporting a system that involves taking human life when the possibility of error is present.

The guilty can rot and I have no moral qualms about whether they are killed or not. I oppose the DP solely for the sake of the innocent, not the guilty.

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"][QUOTE="pianist"]

Your position was perfectly clear, but it is illogical and emotion-driven. An adult is no less a human being than a child. That's like saying a pig suffers less when you kill it than a puppy because the puppy is cuter. And revenge is still the only motivation for employing the death penalty. Revenge isn't worth the possibility of executing someone who is innocent.

I am disgusted by murderers, too. But I am staunchly opposed to the death penalty because justice is conducted by humans in our society and humans make mistakes. Executing the wrong person is an irreversible mistake, and it has happened far too many times, considering that even once is one time too many.

pianist

which is why I say anyone who commits murder deserves to die. These people are the scum of the earth, why you would defend rapists and murderers is beyond me. I suppose maybe your a child molester so you sympathise with these disgusting wastes of a life, but if youve ever been raped you would feel differntly. Don't make me out to be heartless becuase I don't want murderers and rapists to live. Your heartless for defending these disgusting creatures.

Wow. So I guess only murderers and child molesters oppose the death penalty. :|

I was going to respond to your post, but there really isn't a point. You are apparently incapable of understanding why I am opposed to the death penalty despite the fact that I laid that out very clearly in the very post you quoted, and are no longer debating so much as flinging about insults. As you well know, that's a pretty clear sign that you have been defeated in a debate.

For the record, you need not defend criminal behaviour to oppose specific punishments. Get back to me when you understand that this debate is about a form of punishment, not about the crime itself.

Rofl I understand why you apoose it, but you have horroble reasoning. How about I keep my tax dollars and you can pay an extr 5% to keep all the murderers housed in prison.

Rofl I understand why you apoose it, but you have horroble reasoning. How about I keep my tax dollars and you can pay an extr 5% to keep all the murderers housed in prison.

kingyotoX

The death penalty costs more of your tax dollars than life-time incarceration. :|

For someone who claims another has 'horroble' (whatever the hell that is) reasoning, yours could use some brushing up.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

Well, with all the stupid religion and "X candidate sucks" threads, I figured, how about a good topic on a single controversial issue?

As for my views, I'm rather divided. I wouldn't be comfortable unless the said executed was 100% proven guilty. I wouldn't want to risk killing an innocent.

Aside from that, I'm unsure.

dsman418

And much of my liking of the show is due to it's amazing score.

We all have rights. The right to life is one of them.

You turn in your rights when you commit a crime. The right to life should be no exception.

Rapists and murderers don't deserve to live. The problem , however, is that

1. The death penalty doesn't deter crime, and

2. The appeal processes that are required for anyone sentenced to death cost more than keeping them in prison forever.

So the only reason to have the death penalty is to permanently remove a threat to society, from society.

Morally, I have little issue with the death penalty. Economically, the only sensible thing to do is oppose it.

Dracargen

I agree, you should only be put to death for murder and rape, but it only cost so much because their kept alive for so long, sometimes even longer than their victims lives. They should just be killed the day when their sentenced.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

We all have rights. The right to life is one of them.

You turn in your rights when you commit a crime. The right to life should be no exception.

Rapists and murderers don't deserve to live. The problem , however, is that

1. The death penalty doesn't deter crime, and

2. The appeal processes that are required for anyone sentenced to death cost more than keeping them in prison forever.

So the only reason to have the death penalty is to permanently remove a threat to society, from society.

Morally, I have little issue with the death penalty. Economically, the only sensible thing to do is oppose it.

megahaloman64

I agree, you should only be put to death for murder and rape, but it only cost so much because their kept alive for so long, sometimes even longer than their victims lives. They should just be killed the day when their sentenced.

I'm no supporter of it. It doesn't do anything except punish one individual person for a crime they committed. After it's carried out, then what? Does the family get their loved one back? Does all their pain go away? Hell, considering the amount of time it can take before someone is excuted, many families that have learned to cope with the loss of a loved one have to experience that pain all over again once appeals finally run out. Many people see it as a way of justice being done but, in reality, all it is is a tool for carrying out revenge on a person in the name of the victim's family. If it's okay for a state, a government, to end someone's life for a crime, then why are we barred from carrying out the deed ourselves? You see what I'm getting at? A murder is a murder no matter what the circumstances, even under the guise of it being "justice".

[QUOTE="kingyotoX"]

Rofl I understand why you apoose it, but you have horroble reasoning. How about I keep my tax dollars and you can pay an extr 5% to keep all the murderers housed in prison.

pianist

The death penalty costs more of your tax dollars than life-time incarceration. :|

For someone who claims another has 'horroble' (whatever the hell that is) reasoning, yours could use some brushing up.

LOL you get so angry calm down son. that's why I say 1 year of apeals and there toast death by public hanging.

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="kingyotoX"]

Rofl I understand why you apoose it, but you have horroble reasoning. How about I keep my tax dollars and you can pay an extr 5% to keep all the murderers housed in prison.

kingyotoX

The death penalty costs more of your tax dollars than life-time incarceration. :|

For someone who claims another has 'horroble' (whatever the hell that is) reasoning, yours could use some brushing up.

LOL you get so angry calm down son. that's why I say 1 year of apeals and there toast death by public hanging.

If you advocate reducing appeals, then you quite simply advocate killing innocent people. It's that simple. The message is "it doesn't really matter if this person did it, SOMEONE needs to die for it."