The Global Debt Crisis. Does anyone even remotely care?

I've been studying this bad boy for well over 6 months and put simply: the world is screwed. America have 55 trillion dollars worth of debt and their yearly deficit is nearing 50% of the budget.

- 43 million Americans live by food stamps and that number is rapidly increasing. The number of unemployed American's has been steadily increasing.

- Europe is a financial time bomb waiting to happen. Greece is on the verge of default and it's going to lead to the destruction of the Euro and everything else in it's path as the effects ricochet across the world.

- The financial system already imploded in 2008. We've merely been unsustainably kicking the can down the road until another lehman brothers event happens.

Although I'm sure all this meaningless to you. But that's the problem - people have no financial background what-so-ever; and it's this mentality that is going to leave many unprepared for the inevitable 1930's type depression. People aren't taught in schools about how the monetary system works, what inflation is and how the government spends it's money. Something as fundamental as "interest rates" is a foreign concept to many.I bet if i were to ask you where money comes from, you wouldn't have a single clue. If you knew, you'd be outraged.

Unfortunately, i think a lot of it comes down to financial ignorance. People don't give a crap about what the hell is happening in the economy. People are more concerned with masterchef and all the small trivial aspects to life, like the fact that your bus late taking you to work etc. Unfortunately, this is going to be the downfall of society.

I made a video that i think explains the whole crisis really well in under 10 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz6xG2YtyyE

So what are your thoughts?Naturallythis thread was destined to fail.... along with the failure of society.

But that's precisely the problem. No one cares, so they can continue to make crappy decisions and screw us all over! We can't hold those accountable if we don't even know what's happening! A classic example is when the American government bailed out the big banks to the tune of 700 billion dollars! That's taxpayers money going to corrupt institutions!

Unfortunately, i think a lot of it comes down to financial ignorance.

...along with the failure of society.

juliusmysad

You might think I've gone off on a bit of a rant, but as I said it's all about that care free "it doesn't affect me" attitude that people all over the world have. It's a global social attitude that's going to bring the world to its knees soon enough when the global economy crashes and millions upon millions end up bankrupt and probably homeless. I fear thatthere will be great social revolt worldwide and that the world will soon become a radically different place.

Or, it might just be a whole lot of worry over nothing, who knows.

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"]

Unfortunately, i think a lot of it comes down to financial ignorance.

...along with the failure of society.

DigitalExile

You might think I've gone off on a bit of a rant, but as I said it's all about that care free "it doesn't affect me" attitude that people all over the world have. It's a global social attitude that's going to bring the world to its knees soon enough when the global economy crashes and millions upon millions end up bankrupt and probably homeless. I fear thatthere will be great social revolt worldwide and that the world will soon become a radically different place.

Or, it might just be a whole lot of worry over nothing, who knows.

But we do know! You just got to exposure yourself to the reality.

People care about the debt. But its too late to stop another stock market crash.

The next recscion (Actualy depresion, recsions a word we just use to make ourselves feel better about a crappy economy) is unstopable, the way things are now. people just don't realize that we have to go through this eventually, so they delay it and delay it, just making it worse for us when it happens.

And this one'll be worse than 2008.

To answer your question....no. But isn't America 13 trillion in dept? Where are you getting the 55 trillion figure from?

The Eurozone crisis, I think it's not that noone cares, it's that there are no good solutions. Do EZ countries risk their own assets and continue to bail out these countries with high debts, or do they let them fail and hope to weather a financial storm? It's ugly. Greece has 160% of GDP as debt, that's absolutely insane. The question shouldn't have been how to deal with that, the question should have been how to not let it get that far. I'm starting to think the answer is that the Eurozone might have to be scaled back or even done away with, countries like Greece simply can't be an anchor dragging the rest of the EZ to the bottom of the sea.

As to America's debt, it's nowhere near as bad as Greece or Italy's. I think the important number is not what percentage of the budget debt is, but what percent of GDP. It's probably higher than it should be, but I don't think we're near panic mode yet. We do have a labor crisis, however, as jobs are continually being shipped out of the country and worker wages decrease. You want to cut into the defecit? The best way to do that is to get unemplyment down, more working people means more tax revenue. Another good way to do that is to raise personal income rates back to sensible levels, and to start drawing down our global military presence in regions that are secure without our bases siphoning money out of the country. Do both of those and start spending money on defecit reduction and we can slowly draw our debt back down to sensible levels without throwing the baby out with the bathwater with ridiculous and damaging austerity measures.

Brean24: Let me tell you now - all this "growth" governments talk about is fake. For the past 40 years it's all been cheap credit, meaning that all this money was borrowed. Obama's idea of "restarting the economy" is to spend more money. Firstly, that makes no sense. If you have too much debt already, it doesn't make sense to to print more money and get into more debt. Secondly, saving money is the backbone of a capitalist society: not spending money. This links in with how we shouldn't have low interest rates, but i don't really have the time to explain that.

Outworld222: The Debt Ceiling is around 15 trillion dollars. That means Government debt is around 15 trillion dollars. Including private Debt, the figure is 55 trillion altogether. Including unfunded liabilities such as medicare and social security, the figure is more like 170 trillion dollars.

The Eurozone crisis, I think it's not that noone cares, it's that there are no good solutions. Do EZ countries risk their own assets and continue to bail out these countries with high debts, or do they let them fail and hope to weather a financial storm? It's ugly. Greece has 160% of GDP as debt, that's absolutely insane. The question shouldn't have been how to deal with that, the question should have been how to not let it get that far. I'm starting to think the answer is that the Eurozone might have to be scaled back or even done away with, countries like Greece simply can't be an anchor dragging the rest of the EZ to the bottom of the sea.

As to America's debt, it's nowhere near as bad as Greece or Italy's. I think the important number is not what percentage of the budget debt is, but what percent of GDP. It's probably higher than it should be, but I don't think we're near panic mode yet. We do have a labor crisis, however, as jobs are continually being shipped out of the country and worker wages decrease. You want to cut into the defecit? The best way to do that is to get unemplyment down, more working people means more tax revenue. Another good way to do that is to raise personal income rates back to sensible levels, and to start drawing down our global military presence in regions that are secure without our bases siphoning money out of the country. Do both of those and start spending money on defecit reduction and we can slowly draw our debt back down to sensible levels without throwing the baby out with the bathwater with ridiculous and damaging austerity measures.

theone86

The Eurozone will eventually dismantle and we'll go back to pre-currencies prior to the Euro. But unless if people are willing to pay back all this debt, I'm seeing a complete collapse of the financial system. Afterall, we got into all this debt because the Europeans are too freaking lazy. Apparently Greek public workers were paid much more than their private counterparts.

Outworld222: The Debt Ceiling is around 15 trillion dollars. That means Government debt is around 15 trillion dollars. Including private Debt, the figure is 55 trillion altogether. Including unfunded liabilities such as medicare and social security, the figure is more like 170 trillion dollars.

I'm under an impression that one day, wheat will be more valuable than gold. :|wiifan001

To answer your question....no. But isn't America 13 trillion in dept? Where are you getting the 55 trillion figure from?

outworld222

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

This website shows our national debt is clocked in at this moment $14.7 trillion, but as you see the TOTAL U.S. national debt is nearing 55 trillion (5th row about the center)

[QUOTE="outworld222"]

To answer your question....no. But isn't America 13 trillion in dept? Where are you getting the 55 trillion figure from?

wiifan001

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

This website shows our national debt is clocked in at this moment $14.7 trillion, but as you see the TOTAL U.S. national debt is nearing 55 trillion (5th row about the center)

[QUOTE="theone86"]

The Eurozone crisis, I think it's not that noone cares, it's that there are no good solutions. Do EZ countries risk their own assets and continue to bail out these countries with high debts, or do they let them fail and hope to weather a financial storm? It's ugly. Greece has 160% of GDP as debt, that's absolutely insane. The question shouldn't have been how to deal with that, the question should have been how to not let it get that far. I'm starting to think the answer is that the Eurozone might have to be scaled back or even done away with, countries like Greece simply can't be an anchor dragging the rest of the EZ to the bottom of the sea.

As to America's debt, it's nowhere near as bad as Greece or Italy's. I think the important number is not what percentage of the budget debt is, but what percent of GDP. It's probably higher than it should be, but I don't think we're near panic mode yet. We do have a labor crisis, however, as jobs are continually being shipped out of the country and worker wages decrease. You want to cut into the defecit? The best way to do that is to get unemplyment down, more working people means more tax revenue. Another good way to do that is to raise personal income rates back to sensible levels, and to start drawing down our global military presence in regions that are secure without our bases siphoning money out of the country. Do both of those and start spending money on defecit reduction and we can slowly draw our debt back down to sensible levels without throwing the baby out with the bathwater with ridiculous and damaging austerity measures.

juliusmysad

The Eurozone will eventually dismantle and we'll go back to pre-currencies prior to the Euro. But unless if people are willing to pay back all this debt, I'm seeing a complete collapse of the financial system. Afterall, we got into all this debt because the Europeans are too freaking lazy. Apparently Greek public workers were paid much more than their private counterparts.

Lawl, including private debt. Yeah, your numbers aren't flawed and ideology-driven at all. And no, it shouldn't reflect interest rate, it should be around 13-20% of GDP if investment is needed, 3-8% if it isn't. And I don't think there is an inevitable collapse, not in the immediate future. You sure haven't shown anything that suggests there will be one, you've simply put out a lot of scary (and slanted) numbers in order to scare people into buying into your doomsday predictions.

Europeans aren't lazy, but clearly some of their governments are poorly managed. France and Germany are not going to let the financial system collapse. Things may get worse, but a complete collapse seems unlikely at this point.

The only benefit I think I have acquired from an economical education, is not to be fooled by other economists. Even with the state of the art models, methods etc. overall the whole science has yet to achieve it's 'newtonian revolution'. There is no consensus to be found anywhere and even if somehow we're able to find good solutions to the problems at hand, they would have to occur trough political decision making. Given that, there is little hope that the political machine in any country will make a truly informed decision or even reach a bad one, even if people were to be educated. Much less, I don't expect any sort of global cooperation that will improve the global economy.

As for Europe, I dont even want to know at this point, its a total cluster****Brean24

The U.S. isn't insulated from what happens in Europe. The European debt crisis will certainly be felt most strongly over there where there are more holdings of Greek debt, but when Greece defaults it will cause markets and eventually global demand to plummet. Everyone will suffer to some extent, just like everyone did in 2008 with the exception of China because they poured money into building projects to pick up the slack.

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

The Eurozone crisis, I think it's not that noone cares, it's that there are no good solutions. Do EZ countries risk their own assets and continue to bail out these countries with high debts, or do they let them fail and hope to weather a financial storm? It's ugly. Greece has 160% of GDP as debt, that's absolutely insane. The question shouldn't have been how to deal with that, the question should have been how to not let it get that far. I'm starting to think the answer is that the Eurozone might have to be scaled back or even done away with, countries like Greece simply can't be an anchor dragging the rest of the EZ to the bottom of the sea.

As to America's debt, it's nowhere near as bad as Greece or Italy's. I think the important number is not what percentage of the budget debt is, but what percent of GDP. It's probably higher than it should be, but I don't think we're near panic mode yet. We do have a labor crisis, however, as jobs are continually being shipped out of the country and worker wages decrease. You want to cut into the defecit? The best way to do that is to get unemplyment down, more working people means more tax revenue. Another good way to do that is to raise personal income rates back to sensible levels, and to start drawing down our global military presence in regions that are secure without our bases siphoning money out of the country. Do both of those and start spending money on defecit reduction and we can slowly draw our debt back down to sensible levels without throwing the baby out with the bathwater with ridiculous and damaging austerity measures.

theone86

The Eurozone will eventually dismantle and we'll go back to pre-currencies prior to the Euro. But unless if people are willing to pay back all this debt, I'm seeing a complete collapse of the financial system. Afterall, we got into all this debt because the Europeans are too freaking lazy. Apparently Greek public workers were paid much more than their private counterparts.

Lawl, including private debt. Yeah, your numbers aren't flawed and ideology-driven at all. And no, it shouldn't reflect interest rate, it should be around 13-20% of GDP if investment is needed, 3-8% if it isn't. And I don't think there is an inevitable collapse, not in the immediate future. You sure haven't shown anything that suggests there will be one, you've simply put out a lot of scary (and slanted) numbers in order to scare people into buying into your doomsday predictions.

Europeans aren't lazy, but clearly some of their governments are poorly managed. France and Germany are not going to let the financial system collapse. Things may get worse, but a complete collapse seems unlikely at this point.

But, i believe that people will lose faith in the US dollar since they'll realise that it's no better than the Euro and people will flock to precious metals. Thus bringing down the entire financial system. We'll see how it plays out though. Everything has been playing out according to plan.

Brean24: Let me tell you now - all this "growth" governments talk about is fake. For the past 40 years it's all been cheap credit, meaning that all this money was borrowed. Obama's idea of "restarting the economy" is to spend more money. Firstly, that makes no sense. If you have too much debt already, it doesn't make sense to to print more money and get into more debt. Secondly, saving money is the backbone of a capitalist society: not spending money. This links in with how we shouldn't have low interest rates, but i don't really have the time to explain that.

Outworld222: The Debt Ceiling is around 15 trillion dollars. That means Government debt is around 15 trillion dollars. Including private Debt, the figure is 55 trillion altogether. Including unfunded liabilities such as medicare and social security, the figure is more like 170 trillion dollars.

juliusmysad

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Investment of capital into the market spurs investment, creates jobs, and strengthens the economic outlook. Furthermore, when it's targeted spending, as in President Obama's proposals to use tax credits to incetivize investment in American economy, it can do more than simple stimulus spending, which is effective at keeping money flowing in the short term.

This common sense argument that you can't spend money when you're in debt is just that, common sense, which is to say useless. Common sense is code for untested opinions. If everyone saved their money in a downturn- consumers, private sector, and public sector-we'd be screwed. As it is many public sector jobs are helping the economy stay where it is as opposed to making it worse, and if we institute the cuts necessary to make the budget fit this common sense paradigm then that's far more people unemplyed, far more people not paying taxes, far more people not adding to GDP, and just bad all around.

I do care about the debt crisis in addition to the relative decline of U.S. (and Western generally) economic power. My wife and I both graduated from college in 2009 while the news cycle was flooded with stories of hundreds of thousands of people being laid off on a monthly basis. That was a depressing dose of reality.

Our finances are structured with disaster in mind. We are in no way wealthy, but go out of our way to save for hard times. We both work in fields that are relatively insulated from the economy (that's why we were able to find employment in the first place). I work for a law firm and she has a job with a company that has a government contract for the next several years. Our home will be paid off next year, and we both have diversified retirement portfolios and several thousand dollars in the bank. After we pay off the house next year we could literally both become unemployed and still pay our bills (after cutting back) for a couple of years without work.

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"]

Brean24: Let me tell you now - all this "growth" governments talk about is fake. For the past 40 years it's all been cheap credit, meaning that all this money was borrowed. Obama's idea of "restarting the economy" is to spend more money. Firstly, that makes no sense. If you have too much debt already, it doesn't make sense to to print more money and get into more debt. Secondly, saving money is the backbone of a capitalist society: not spending money. This links in with how we shouldn't have low interest rates, but i don't really have the time to explain that.

Outworld222: The Debt Ceiling is around 15 trillion dollars. That means Government debt is around 15 trillion dollars. Including private Debt, the figure is 55 trillion altogether. Including unfunded liabilities such as medicare and social security, the figure is more like 170 trillion dollars.

theone86

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Investment of capital into the market spurs investment, creates jobs, and strengthens the economic outlook. Furthermore, when it's targeted spending, as in President Obama's proposals to use tax credits to incetivize investment in American economy, it can do more than simple stimulus spending, which is effective at keeping money flowing in the short term.

This common sense argument that you can't spend money when you're in debt is just that, common sense, which is to say useless. Common sense is code for untested opinions. If everyone saved their money in a downturn- consumers, private sector, and public sector-we'd be screwed. As it is many public sector jobs are helping the economy stay where it is as opposed to making it worse, and if we institute the cuts necessary to make the budget fit this common sense paradigm then that's far more people unemplyed, far more people not paying taxes, far more people not adding to GDP, and just bad all around.

Apathy and ignorance will kill us all faster than any despot leader or so-called terrorist organization could ever aspire to... As usual, we have our priorities (and our heads) entrenched firmly in our asses...67gt500

So roughly 1 out of 5 Americans is on food stamps?

Yeah I'm going to have to say no on that one.

Hasn't effected me personally yet. But I am fearful.

So roughly 1 out of 5 Americans is on food stamps?

Yeah I'm going to have to say no on that one.

Wasdie

Yes I do care that there is a global debt crisis however I can't let that worry consume my whole life either. I have a life to live and it's not one where I can do a whole lot about the debt crisis beyond making an educated vote.

Yes I do care that there is a global debt crisis however I can't let that worry consume my whole life either. I have a life to live and it's not one where I can do a whole lot about the debt crisis beyond making an educated vote.

Serraph105

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Yes I do care that there is a global debt crisis however I can't let that worry consume my whole life either. I have a life to live and it's not one where I can do a whole lot about the debt crisis beyond making an educated vote.

juliusmysad

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"][QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Yes I do care that there is a global debt crisis however I can't let that worry consume my whole life either. I have a life to live and it's not one where I can do a whole lot about the debt crisis beyond making an educated vote.

Serraph105

I care but then I do not since there is pretty much nothing I can really do about it. UprootedDreamer

we will be fineweezyfb

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

So roughly 1 out of 5 Americans is on food stamps?

Yeah I'm going to have to say no on that one.

juliusmysad

There are 300 million people in this country, and you said 47 million on food stamps. That's far more than 14%.

[QUOTE="weezyfb"]we will be finejuliusmysad

Yes, we are in a everlasting war with a major military power while our generals and politicians slaughter each other over power.

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

So roughly 1 out of 5 Americans is on food stamps?

Yeah I'm going to have to say no on that one.

Wasdie

There are 300 million people in this country, and you said 47 million on food stamps. That's far more than 14%.

i do care. our interest on the debt alone is a lot more than what we pay per year so......we will never get out of the mess. the inevetable is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. those greedy pigs int the government don't give a dam either, they caused the mess and are taking us down with them.

i do care. our interest on the debt alone is a lot more than what we pay per year so......we will never get out of the mess. the inevetable is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. those greedy pigs int the government don't give a dam either, they caused the mess and are taking us down with them.

ristactionjakso

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

i do care. our interest on the debt alone is a lot more than what we pay per year so......we will never get out of the mess. the inevetable is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. those greedy pigs int the government don't give a dam either, they caused the mess and are taking us down with them.

juliusmysad

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.