The Global Debt Crisis. Does anyone even remotely care?

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Solid_Snake325

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#101 Solid_Snake325
Member since 2006 • 6091 Posts
I seriously couldn't care less. It's boring and I don't enjoy discussing it.
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kris9031998

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#102 kris9031998
Member since 2008 • 7554 Posts
Yes, i can honestly say: Im scared. We are ALL screwed, no matter how we look at it. *sigh* we have a long road ahead....
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SaudiFury

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#103 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="superfluidity"]

The only real solution to peak oil at this point would be to mandate a phaseout of gasoline powered passenger vehices in the near future and transition to electric vehicles. That would bring demand down to a level where oil could be extracted sustainably for quite a long time - long enough to begin using alternative materials for most things.

Of course, I can't imagine a government being managed coherently enough to accomplish something like that. I fully expect a major world crisis in the next 20 years or so.

ristactionjakso

agreed. and personally speaking , i really regret not taking upon the elective class on solar energy at my engineering college. Really wished i had just taken it and learned what i could out of it, so when i work in the energy sector i could be more useful as far as R&D'ing the technology.

bull.....we just recently found a oil field bigger than the ones in the middle east......America now has the most oil reserves in the world that could easily last us 200 plus years.......but the ever so powerful and intellegent EPA blocks a lot of drilling and processing of our own oil, which in turn we can only buy from foreign countries...gas could be a whole lot cheaper if the EPA lost a lot of its power.

Seeing how i'm studying in safety for my Master's, and part of what i do is understand how EPA works. lemme just say the EPA is pretty pathetic as is.

as far as your second link goes, it doesn't distinguish whether this is pocketed gas and oil under the earth or this is simply the oil tar sands. All i kept seeing was "technically recoverable oil".

As far as i understand the US and Canada have an immense amount of this oil tar sands, even heard the phrasing that the US is the world's Saudi Arabia of oil tar sands. Problem, however, is it is more expensive to extract and get oil out of these tar sands pits. Not to mention by admitting to the fact that were moving onto these "immense tar sands" just tells me just how little new finds of the new oil deposits either.

For instance every year in Saudi, Saudi announces new finds of oil and gas pockets, but nothing to the degree found in the early 30's, the largest find since the 60's was the Hata oil field.

Then i must say that the amount of oil doesn't mean much either, prices are rising, yes partially inflated due to speculation. But also demand is rising.

Take a step back and look at the world stage. Third world countries like Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Oman, Saudi Arabia etc. etc. the list goes on. Have been experiencing a dramatic rise in quality of life in the last 20 years. As far as material goods go, a person can live just fine in some of these countries. The projections for consumption and demand have been wrong and demand always higher, ever rising.

China, India, Brazil, and Russia are big players on the world stage, and will be requiring more consumption for their own needs. America alone consumes around 25% of the worlds oil and gas. and Saudi Arabia's #1 oil partner is China, followed closely by the US and India.

and i do not buy the argument for a second that EPA stands in the way. The US's government works at the beck and call of big business, if you don't believe me and you think reality at Washington is different. I suggest going to your state capitol on a day that the legislators are meeting, ask around to the lobbyist's who they work for. Personally done this twice in my life, and on both occasions it's mostly big business, fast food, coal industry, union lobbyist's.

I do not buy that there is some conspiracy for not drilling or extracting oil in the US. the amount of money to be made, and it being at home would be too much of a sweet thing to pass on.

big business would make sure it got it's way.

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legend26

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#104 legend26
Member since 2007 • 16010 Posts

. all of this stuff about trillions and trillions are $$$ is bs. that amount of money does not even exist. its just all random numbers made by people

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ToppledPillars

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#105 ToppledPillars
Member since 2010 • 1590 Posts

. all of this stuff about trillions and trillions are $$$ is bs. that amount of money does not even exist. its just all random numbers made by people

legend26
THAT IS THE POINT MR FIAT!! We should take your little pet bank JP Morgan and put them on the mat!! THEY'RE DONE!!
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CaveJohnson1

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#106 CaveJohnson1
Member since 2011 • 1714 Posts

Our debt isn't 55 trillion....

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juliusmysad

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#107 juliusmysad
Member since 2008 • 79 Posts

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"]Yes and No. The problem is the monetary system we use: The Debt Based System. The only way to truly fix the problem is to abolish the Debt based System. Unfortunately that's not going to happen because the Federal reserve controls the money supply - quite literally. The US dollar is printed and owned by a private institution: The Federal Reserve. At the end of the day, this is what is going to happen. The US dollar is going to experience hyperinflation and it's going to bring down every other currency. Simple as that. The world won't quite end, but countries with the most gold/silver will come out on top. That's why countries are scrambling to buy as much gold/silver as possible. The Chinese are huge buyers. There's a ton more I'd like to add, but I could write for hours :) Mochyc

Just to inform you, the Federal Reserve doesn't print money, it just changes the supply of money. That's different. The fact is, in the past the supply of money was controlled through the required reserve ratio (and other instruments) by anchor banks. So whether you like it or not, the supply of money will be controlled.

You basically just described the exact same thing in different terms. Printing money = changes supply of money. And yes, they do control the money supply. The Fed owns every single US dollar bill. Otherwise, how else are they supposed to "change the money supply" my friend?
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juliusmysad

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#108 juliusmysad
Member since 2008 • 79 Posts
I seriously couldn't care less. It's boring and I don't enjoy discussing it.Solid_Snake325
You are the very reason why we're in this mess. Ignorance will kill us in the end. I could care less if you find it boring. It's an important issue that's going to affect everyone, whether you give a rats arse or not.
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branketra

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#109 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts
Yes, people are taught finances. I learned in a u.s. public high school economics class.
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juliusmysad

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#110 juliusmysad
Member since 2008 • 79 Posts

. all of this stuff about trillions and trillions are $$$ is bs. that amount of money does not even exist. its just all random numbers made by people

legend26
Precisely. Which is what is going to make the crash ever more disastrous. People are going to wake up with their "savings", pension and everything that relies on cash destroyed overnight.
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juliusmysad

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#111 juliusmysad
Member since 2008 • 79 Posts
Yes, people are taught finances. I learned in a u.s. public high school economics class.BranKetra
lol then why aren't you outraged!? Otherwise, they taught you the aspects that they want you to know about. You know that inflation is a hidden tax?
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juliusmysad

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#112 juliusmysad
Member since 2008 • 79 Posts

I'm probably the only one to say this (and probably one of the few to actually study economics), but debt isn't as big of a problem as people say it is.

I have these questions for you:

What does the debt of the US government have to do with americans being on food stamps?

Greece might default, sure. But is the european crisis more due to debt or the lack of solidarity between the member states and difficulty to apply monetary policy?

Did the 2008 crisis have anything to do with the US government's debt?

Mochyc
If you watch my video in the original post, the whole point of the debt based system is that the economy must grow enough to support the amount debt you take. 2008 has basically the point where the growth stopped, yet the debt kept on piling on due to the nature of the system. Eventually you get ot he point where you fail to borrow enough debt to pay for the interest payments, which collapses the system. The no. of American's on food stamps is reflective of how bad the economy is going. The economy is reflective of jobs and growth, and obviously we're not getting enough of those things. Everything in Europe is about Debt and trust me, there is no solution. It was destined to fail. Countries lent out money that they knew would never be paid back. The countries that borrowed the money lived beyond their means i.e Greece. We're now at the stage where everyone has a ton of debt that will never be paid back. Mind you, growth has also stalled in Europe since 2008. But they are the fundamentals.
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On3ShotOneKill

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#113 On3ShotOneKill
Member since 2008 • 1219 Posts

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

I'm personally more concerned about the issue of peak oil.

more so then the debt crisis. granted there is a bit of bias on my part, coming from the single largest oil producer in the world, and being an engineer (IE i'm not all that knowledgeable about economics).

I don't think anybody really can fully comprehend the immensity of the problem of peak oil poses to us as a civilization. It's not just your fuel in your car and your electric bill either. hydrocarbons go into so so much of what makes the life we live - be it the first world or the developing third world - possible.

and there are NO easy solutions to THAT problem.

juliusmysad

Peak oil is a huge issue. The one fact of life however is that HUMANS AREN'T SUSTAINABLE. PERIOD. And that we can never keep constantly growing as a race into an exponential function. Whether it be financially, environmentally, socially etc. the system is going to implode on way or another. We live in a finite planet, yet we're trying to grow into infinity. It's just a matter of when. 7 billion people? 50 billion people? 1 trillion people?

Economics and Human civilization with the assumption of infinite growth are indeed unsustainable. The Universe itself is limited yet, Humans believe their way of life can last forever? The path Humanity has chosen is quite a foolish one (because of our resource consumption rates), and the fact that the majority people either have no clue or do not care (until it happens) makes it even worse than it could be. There needs to be a psychological and philisophical revolution. AKA, people need to have a much better grasp on the span of time and need to get their priorities straight. The incoming crisis' of peak oil, peak metal, unsustainable population growth, rapid global climate change, etc are not "his", "hers", or "their" problem . It's OURS and they are coming up much sooner than we initially thought. We can solve them with some sacrifices to the way we currently live, but as it looks right now we are headed for an era of chaos and destruction. The future will indeed be interesting and for anyone who think's I'm depressed or crazy is entitled to their opinion. I am not telling you to build bunkers or stock up on food and ammo but to become EDUCATED.

Your Job won't mean jack $#!t when it disappears because your company collapsed, which happened because the economy no longer exists, which also means your electronics won't work, because there is no electricity going to your house, because the electrical company no longer exists, because the economy no longer exists.

Also: because governments and nations fell apart This also means that there is no one to protect your living space except you (Becuz teh EVIL PO PO and teh EVIL MILITARY also no longer exist). So if someone wants to take it by force, you will have to fight for it. Ain't no more dialin', 911 and courts and jail and stuff bro. That crap is for civilized societies dood. EVERYTHING regarding modern human civilization is connected to economics, and once that no longer becomes sustainable, a chain reaction of EPIC proportions occurs. /OMG DOOM AND GLOOM :lol:

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soulless4now

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#114 soulless4now
Member since 2003 • 41388 Posts

I do care, but I have other things to worry about it.

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juliusmysad

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#115 juliusmysad
Member since 2008 • 79 Posts

I do care, but I have other things to worry about it.

soulless4now
When your time comes, this crisis will be the only thing you're going to be worrying about.
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mattbbpl

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#116 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23367 Posts

To answer your question....no. But isn't America 13 trillion in dept? Where are you getting the 55 trillion figure from?

outworld222

I'm sure he's including the debt incurred on a personal basis by it's citizens and corporations. This would include things like credit card debt, car loans, and mortgages. It's not as harmful as the OP is making it out to be (a certain amount is even deemed to be positive in many circumstances by entrepreneurs, investors, and economists), although it certainly can't grow forever in an unsustainable way, and it can hamper economic growth when the population begins to deleverage.

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Santesyu

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#117 Santesyu
Member since 2008 • 4451 Posts

But that's precisely the problem. No one cares,

juliusmysad
Somewhere out there somebody does care because they are making money off of everyone's downfall.
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poptart

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#118 poptart
Member since 2003 • 7298 Posts

Sure - I think everyone's putting on a brave face and spinning a little optimism, but in reality everything is on the brink of inevitible collapse. Personally I think I'm probably best placed out of many people I know to deal with any kind of severe downturn. Why? Because I am worth nothing.

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Solid_Snake325

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#120 Solid_Snake325
Member since 2006 • 6091 Posts
[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"]I seriously couldn't care less. It's boring and I don't enjoy discussing it.juliusmysad
You are the very reason why we're in this mess. Ignorance will kill us in the end. I could care less if you find it boring. It's an important issue that's going to affect everyone, whether you give a rats arse or not.

What are you, a prophet of the apocalypse? Your apparent paranoia is not convicing anyone.
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juliusmysad

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#121 juliusmysad
Member since 2008 • 79 Posts
[QUOTE="juliusmysad"][QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"]I seriously couldn't care less. It's boring and I don't enjoy discussing it.Solid_Snake325
You are the very reason why we're in this mess. Ignorance will kill us in the end. I could care less if you find it boring. It's an important issue that's going to affect everyone, whether you give a rats arse or not.

What are you, a prophet of the apocalypse? Your apparent paranoia is not convicing anyone.

No. I'm just educated, informed and aware.
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KungfuKitten

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#122 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

Capitalism, ho!

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KungfuKitten

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#123 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"][QUOTE="juliusmysad"] You are the very reason why we're in this mess. Ignorance will kill us in the end. I could care less if you find it boring. It's an important issue that's going to affect everyone, whether you give a rats arse or not. juliusmysad
What are you, a prophet of the apocalypse? Your apparent paranoia is not convicing anyone.

No. I'm just educated, informed and aware.

Hahaha, it wasn't ignorance or boredom that cause this all. Every system corrupts over time. People act according to the system, to the role they are placed in. You have an economy made of a million mini-hitlers, who cause employees to simply agree, twist words, deceive people all to appear to be doing a good job, and to avoid blame. What do you say to the man with the gun? You just say what he wants to hear.
Such a system will crash every once in a while because of the system and nothing else.
And the system stays in place because of those at the top, and because we're too stupid to think of a better one.

I'm sure they'll solve it in years, and get to the bottom of this, meaning definitely not to the top of this. Meaning this will happen again and again.
Let's face it: capitalism isn't perfect, and we are spending nothing on thinking of a better system at all. Nobody wants to hear about it, we're all putting our heads in the sand.

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kendouken

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#124 kendouken
Member since 2011 • 66 Posts

I've been studying this bad boy for well over 6 months and put simply: the world is screwed. America have 55 trillion dollars worth of debt and their yearly deficit is nearing 50% of the budget.

- 43 million Americans live by food stamps and that number is rapidly increasing. The number of unemployed American's has been steadily increasing.

- Europe is a financial time bomb waiting to happen. Greece is on the verge of default and it's going to lead to the destruction of the Euro and everything else in it's path as the effects ricochet across the world.

- The financial system already imploded in 2008. We've merely been unsustainably kicking the can down the road until another lehman brothers event happens.

Although I'm sure all this meaningless to you. But that's the problem - people have no financial background what-so-ever; and it's this mentality that is going to leave many unprepared for the inevitable 1930's type depression. People aren't taught in schools about how the monetary system works, what inflation is and how the government spends it's money. Something as fundamental as "interest rates" is a foreign concept to many.I bet if i were to ask you where money comes from, you wouldn't have a single clue. If you knew, you'd be outraged.

Unfortunately, i think a lot of it comes down to financial ignorance. People don't give a crap about what the hell is happening in the economy. People are more concerned with masterchef and all the small trivial aspects to life, like the fact that your bus late taking you to work etc. Unfortunately, this is going to be the downfall of society.

I made a video that i think explains the whole crisis really well in under 10 minutes:

So what are your thoughts?Naturallythis thread was destined to fail.... along with the failure of society.

juliusmysad
First of all only a few people would realize this... Secondly, this is like a slow end of the world thing... Lastly, yeah if people won't move fast, everything will come crashing to the ground