The Global Debt Crisis. Does anyone even remotely care?

ya, but im poor so cant really get prepared. i would buy silver in a heartbeat. gold is to expensive.

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.

ristactionjakso

The price of silver crashed dramatically last weak and it also crashed once earlier this year. It's a tiny market that large institutional investors can impact strongly on a daily basis.

The price of gold fell by about $200 in just the last couple of trading days. Precious metals are not some panacea of safety because debts are not denominated in them. Thus, when someone has bills to pay and no other resources, they sell their metals and pay debt with currency.

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

ya, but im poor so cant really get prepared. i would buy silver in a heartbeat. gold is to expensive.

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.

superfluidity

The price of silver crashed dramatically last weak and it also crashed once earlier this year. It's a tiny market that large institutional investors can impact strongly on a daily basis.

The price of gold fell by about $200 in just the last couple of trading days. Precious metals are not some panacea of safety because debts are not denominated in them. Thus, when someone has bills to pay and no other resources, they sell their metals and pay debt with currency.

And fair enough if you're too poor. I don't blame you.

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"][QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

i do care. our interest on the debt alone is a lot more than what we pay per year so......we will never get out of the mess. the inevetable is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. those greedy pigs int the government don't give a dam either, they caused the mess and are taking us down with them.

ristactionjakso

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.

america will fall because of our government is greedy. they cannot stop spending. it is to big. our government is just to dam big.

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"] This guy gets it. That's why you have to take matters into your own hands and make your own preparations. ristactionjakso

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.

america will fall because of our government is greedy. they cannot stop spending. it is to big. our government is just to dam big.

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]ya, but im poor so cant really get prepared. i would buy silver in a heartbeat. gold is to expensive.

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.

juliusmysad

america will fall because of our government is greedy. they cannot stop spending. it is to big. our government is just to dam big.

one thing you have to remember about military power.....China has been spending tons and tons of money on their military, air force, and only God knows what else they have up their sleeve once our country gets the shaft.

heh, some "change we can believe in"

heh, some "change we can believe in"

Neo-ganon

Obama can control Europe?

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

i do care. our interest on the debt alone is a lot more than what we pay per year so......we will never get out of the mess. the inevetable is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. those greedy pigs int the government don't give a dam either, they caused the mess and are taking us down with them.

juliusmysad

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"][QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

i do care. our interest on the debt alone is a lot more than what we pay per year so......we will never get out of the mess. the inevetable is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. those greedy pigs int the government don't give a dam either, they caused the mess and are taking us down with them.

ristactionjakso

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]

heh, some "change we can believe in"

superfluidity

Obama can control Europe?

talking about america's contribution to the crisis. i mean yeah, it started during bush's administration, but obama sure did a hell of a good job adding to the problem!

[QUOTE="superfluidity"]

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]

heh, some "change we can believe in"

Neo-ganon

Obama can control Europe?

talking about america's contribution to the crisis. i mean yeah, it started during bush's administration, but obama sure did a hell of a good job adding to the problem!

The U.S. isn't currently experiencing a debt crisis, it's experiencing a political crisis.

The U.S. is on an unsustainable path, just like Japan was a decade ago and still is, but it isn't currently in danger of being unable to pay its debts, except if forced to default by politicians.

The situation in the U.S. is dramatically different from Europe's, where sovereign nations are on the brink of default with no real alternatives. The U.S. merely needs to make hard deficit reductions, which are entirely feasible given the political will. But as I said, we are experiencing a political crisis. The government has nearly ceased to function because of ideological hardliners.

I'm personally more concerned about the issue of peak oil.

more so then the debt crisis. granted there is a bit of bias on my part, coming from the single largest oil producer in the world, and being an engineer (IE i'm not all that knowledgeable about economics).

I don't think anybody really can fully comprehend the immensity of the problem of peak oil poses to us as a civilization. It's not just your fuel in your car and your electric bill either. hydrocarbons go into so so much of what makes the life we live - be it the first world or the developing third world - possible.

and there are NO easy solutions to THAT problem.

I'm personally more concerned about the issue of peak oil.

more so then the debt crisis. granted there is a bit of bias on my part, coming from the single largest oil producer in the world, and being an engineer (IE i'm not all that knowledgeable about economics).

I don't think anybody really can fully comprehend the immensity of the problem of peak oil poses to us as a civilization. It's not just your fuel in your car and your electric bill either. hydrocarbons go into so so much of what makes the life we live - be it the first world or the developing third world - possible.

and there are NO easy solutions to THAT problem.

SaudiFury

The only real solution to peak oil at this point would be to mandate a phaseout of gasoline powered passenger vehices in the near future and transition to electric vehicles. That would bring demand down to a level where oil could be extracted sustainably for quite a long time - long enough to begin using alternative materials for most things.

Of course, I can't imagine a government being managed coherently enough to accomplish something like that. I fully expect a major world crisis in the next 20 years or so.

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

I'm personally more concerned about the issue of peak oil.

more so then the debt crisis. granted there is a bit of bias on my part, coming from the single largest oil producer in the world, and being an engineer (IE i'm not all that knowledgeable about economics).

I don't think anybody really can fully comprehend the immensity of the problem of peak oil poses to us as a civilization. It's not just your fuel in your car and your electric bill either. hydrocarbons go into so so much of what makes the life we live - be it the first world or the developing third world - possible.

and there are NO easy solutions to THAT problem.

superfluidity

The only real solution to peak oil at this point would be to mandate a phaseout of gasoline powered passenger vehices in the near future and transition to electric vehicles. That would bring demand down to a level where oil could be extracted sustainably for quite a long time - long enough to begin using alternative materials for most things.

Of course, I can't imagine a government being managed coherently enough to accomplish something like that. I fully expect a major world crisis in the next 20 years or so.

Meh, Between people being turned into mindless sheep and only caring about celebrity bs, and people being bitter and enraged at the events of the world and the way the government economy and society is headed maybe people are hoping that the entire system crashes and we make something new. Just a random thought. Ive been seeing alot of anger everywhere with the attitude of "Merr screw the 1 % let the whole government collapse" Sure in theory it seems nice. Yes our gov sucks but it is semi-needed. Even if only to support itself.

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"][QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

i do care. our interest on the debt alone is a lot more than what we pay per year so......we will never get out of the mess. the inevetable is going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. those greedy pigs int the government don't give a dam either, they caused the mess and are taking us down with them.

Serraph105

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]

[QUOTE="superfluidity"]

Obama can control Europe?

superfluidity

talking about america's contribution to the crisis. i mean yeah, it started during bush's administration, but obama sure did a hell of a good job adding to the problem!

The U.S. isn't currently experiencing a debt crisis, it's experiencing a political crisis.

The U.S. is on an unsustainable path, just like Japan was a decade ago and still is, but it isn't currently in danger of being unable to pay its debts, except if forced to default by politicians.

The situation in the U.S. is dramatically different from Europe's, where sovereign nations are on the brink of default with no real alternatives. The U.S. merely needs to make hard deficit reductions, which are entirely feasible given the political will. But as I said, we are experiencing a political crisis. The government has nearly ceased to function because of ideological hardliners.

I'm personally more concerned about the issue of peak oil.

more so then the debt crisis. granted there is a bit of bias on my part, coming from the single largest oil producer in the world, and being an engineer (IE i'm not all that knowledgeable about economics).

I don't think anybody really can fully comprehend the immensity of the problem of peak oil poses to us as a civilization. It's not just your fuel in your car and your electric bill either. hydrocarbons go into so so much of what makes the life we live - be it the first world or the developing third world - possible.

and there are NO easy solutions to THAT problem.

SaudiFury

capitalism is one of the most inefficient systems ever imo. Think about all the stuff that just gets thrown away because people dont buy/cant afford them, especially food. It is ridiculous that we have so many hungry people in the world in this day and age. Today everything is about marketing, brand image and that all boils down to making $$$. Its not about the actual product its about atracting the eyes of the consumer with flashy adds. Have you seen a recent coke comercial, it has absolutly nothing to do with the actual product (im talking about the cgi one with insects). I honostly couldnt care less about the so called crisis, its our own greedy fault that we are in this mess and unless we change the way we fundamentaly think about the world and the other people that inhabit it we will never get out.

capitalism is one of the most inefficient systems ever imo. Think about all the stuff that just gets thrown away because people dont buy/cant afford them, especially food. It is ridiculous that we have so many hungry people in the world in this day and age. Today everything is about marketing, brand image and that all boils down to making $$$. Its not about the actual product its about atracting the eyes of the consumer with flashy adds. Have you seen a recent coke comercial, it has absolutly nothing to do with the actual product (im talking about the cgi one with insects). I honostly couldnt care less about the so called crisis, its our own greedy fault that we are in this mess and unless we change the way we fundamentaly think about the world and the other people that inhabit it we will never get out.

G13RainbowSix

We haven't had a free market since who knows how long, and there's way too much government regulation to even call it capitalism.Everything is either subsidized or corrupt: pick your poison.

Any system can work as long as there's no corruption - even socialism! Unfortunately, corruption will always strike. The current crisis is indicative of this.

capitalism is one of the most inefficient systems ever imo. Think about all the stuff that just gets thrown away because people dont buy/cant afford them, especially food. It is ridiculous that we have so many hungry people in the world in this day and age. Today everything is about marketing, brand image and that all boils down to making $$$. Its not about the actual product its about atracting the eyes of the consumer with flashy adds. Have you seen a recent coke comercial, it has absolutly nothing to do with the actual product (im talking about the cgi one with insects). I honostly couldnt care less about the so called crisis, its our own greedy fault that we are in this mess and unless we change the way we fundamentaly think about the world and the other people that inhabit it we will never get out.

G13RainbowSix

There's lots of reasons those people are hungry, including the fact that we've basically bred so many of them to be dependent. Capitalism can only do as much as the government around it allows.

[QUOTE="G13RainbowSix"]

capitalism is one of the most inefficient systems ever imo. Think about all the stuff that just gets thrown away because people dont buy/cant afford them, especially food. It is ridiculous that we have so many hungry people in the world in this day and age. Today everything is about marketing, brand image and that all boils down to making $$$. Its not about the actual product its about atracting the eyes of the consumer with flashy adds. Have you seen a recent coke comercial, it has absolutly nothing to do with the actual product (im talking about the cgi one with insects). I honostly couldnt care less about the so called crisis, its our own greedy fault that we are in this mess and unless we change the way we fundamentaly think about the world and the other people that inhabit it we will never get out.

juliusmysad

We haven't had a free market since who knows how long, and there's way too much government regulation to even call it capitalism.Everything is either subsidized or corrupt: pick your poison.

Any system can work as long as there's no corruption - even socialism! Unfortunately, corruption will always strike. The current crisis is indicative of this.

That still doesnt discount the fact that capitalism and whatever we are living in today teaches us that the only thing that is important is money. This leads to corruption so, and this is imo, capitalism leads to corruption...

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"]

[QUOTE="G13RainbowSix"]

capitalism is one of the most inefficient systems ever imo. Think about all the stuff that just gets thrown away because people dont buy/cant afford them, especially food. It is ridiculous that we have so many hungry people in the world in this day and age. Today everything is about marketing, brand image and that all boils down to making $$$. Its not about the actual product its about atracting the eyes of the consumer with flashy adds. Have you seen a recent coke comercial, it has absolutly nothing to do with the actual product (im talking about the cgi one with insects). I honostly couldnt care less about the so called crisis, its our own greedy fault that we are in this mess and unless we change the way we fundamentaly think about the world and the other people that inhabit it we will never get out.

G13RainbowSix

We haven't had a free market since who knows how long, and there's way too much government regulation to even call it capitalism.Everything is either subsidized or corrupt: pick your poison.

Any system can work as long as there's no corruption - even socialism! Unfortunately, corruption will always strike. The current crisis is indicative of this.

That still doesnt discount the fact that capitalism and whatever we are living in today teaches us that the only thing that is important is money. This leads to corruption so, and this is imo, capitalism leads to corruption...

I don't care because I'm not responsible for the problem nor can I fix it.

I don't care because I'm not responsible for the problem nor can I fix it.

LazyMushroom

[QUOTE="LazyMushroom"]

I don't care because I'm not responsible for the problem nor can I fix it.

juliusmysad

Okay, how do you know that I'm going to have a hard life? Why should I be bothered about the economy when the governments have messed it all up.

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"][QUOTE="LazyMushroom"]

I don't care because I'm not responsible for the problem nor can I fix it.

LazyMushroom

Okay, how do you know that I'm going to have a hard life? Why should I be bothered about the economy when the governments have messed it all up.

I don't worry about things I have no control over. I deal with the punches as they come and prepare for the ones I know about in advance.

I don't worry about things I have no control over. I deal with the punches as they come and prepare for the ones I know about in advance.

LovePotionNo9

I suppose I should say try to prepare. I don't need much. As long as the U.S. dollar doesn't become completely worthless, I'd hopefully have enough to sustain myself for a little while since I have some savings.

But what it ultimately comes to is, no matter how bad things get, it's not under my control, so worrying about it isn't going to fix anything. You have to adapt and accept the new reality and do your best to survive. Didn't say it was easy or perfect. Worrying sure won't make it any better.

I suppose I should say try to prepare. I don't need much. As long as the U.S. dollar doesn't become completely worthless, I'd hopefully have enough to sustain myself for a little while since I have some savings.

But what it ultimately comes to is, no matter how bad things get, it's not under my control, so worrying about it isn't going to fix anything. You have to adapt and accept the new reality and do your best to survive. Didn't say it was easy or perfect. Worrying sure won't make it any better.

LovePotionNo9

You can't change the system, but you can position yourself to take in the shocks (as you mentioned). Adapting is about educating and understanding why the system is broken - which is where i think your logic is broken. You can't "not give a crap" and be educated at the same time - therefore to prepare. They're both heavily interrelated.

I'm not asking you to be worried. You can only be worried if you're uneducated and not prepared.

So roughly 1 out of 5 Americans is on food stamps?

Yeah I'm going to have to say no on that one.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

[QUOTE="juliusmysad"] This guy gets it. That's why you have to take matters into your own hands and make your own preparations. Serraph105

i should just start building a underground nuke cellar, and stock it with twinkys.

To put it simple and its even in common sense, as gas,every day living and items in general are being increased at a alarming rate is one of the major down falls we're about to face when the majority of americans barely make $25,000 a year yet a cheap set of car tires is $450, and you really don't want to know how much truck tires are. Another thing you can thank the american government is the iraq war, which btw if you didn't know war costs money and where does that money come from to fund that war?, us and taxes. Which you can thank Bush on setting the time bomb to our financial ruin, each month the iraq war went on it cost several billion dollars a month. The fall of a democracy is incoming or at least a re worked democracy at the very least.Ballroompirate

[QUOTE="superfluidity"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

I'm personally more concerned about the issue of peak oil.

more so then the debt crisis. granted there is a bit of bias on my part, coming from the single largest oil producer in the world, and being an engineer (IE i'm not all that knowledgeable about economics).

I don't think anybody really can fully comprehend the immensity of the problem of peak oil poses to us as a civilization. It's not just your fuel in your car and your electric bill either. hydrocarbons go into so so much of what makes the life we live - be it the first world or the developing third world - possible.

and there are NO easy solutions to THAT problem.

SaudiFury

The only real solution to peak oil at this point would be to mandate a phaseout of gasoline powered passenger vehices in the near future and transition to electric vehicles. That would bring demand down to a level where oil could be extracted sustainably for quite a long time - long enough to begin using alternative materials for most things.

Of course, I can't imagine a government being managed coherently enough to accomplish something like that. I fully expect a major world crisis in the next 20 years or so.

Yes, I do to some extent. I own a house and I'm over 30 and there is a lot that worries me about the future. But, its not like I can take control of the situation so I try not to lose too much sleep over it.

The government should put people to work on public projects. I'm sure there are a lot of FEMA camps that need to be built.

Yes, I do to some extent. I own a house and I'm over 30 and there is a lot that worries me about the future. But, its not like I can take control of the situation so I try not to lose too much sleep over it.

The government should put people to work on public projects. I'm sure there are a lot of FEMA camps that need to be built.

Darthmatt

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]

Yes, I do to some extent. I own a house and I'm over 30 and there is a lot that worries me about the future. But, its not like I can take control of the situation so I try not to lose too much sleep over it.

The government should put people to work on public projects. I'm sure there are a lot of FEMA camps that need to be built.

ristactionjakso

I'm probably the only one to say this (and probably one of the few to actually study economics), but debt isn't as big of a problem as people say it is.

I have these questions for you:

What does the debt of the US government have to do with americans being on food stamps?

Greece might default, sure. But is the european crisis more due to debt or the lack of solidarity between the member states and difficulty to apply monetary policy?

Did the 2008 crisis have anything to do with the US government's debt?

Yes and No. The problem is the monetary system we use: The Debt Based System. The only way to truly fix the problem is to abolish the Debt based System. Unfortunately that's not going to happen because the Federal reserve controls the money supply - quite literally. The US dollar is printed and owned by a private institution: The Federal Reserve. At the end of the day, this is what is going to happen. The US dollar is going to experience hyperinflation and it's going to bring down every other currency. Simple as that. The world won't quite end, but countries with the most gold/silver will come out on top. That's why countries are scrambling to buy as much gold/silver as possible. The Chinese are huge buyers. There's a ton more I'd like to add, but I could write for hours :) juliusmysad

I've been studying this bad boy for well over 6 months and put simply: the world is screwed. America have 55 trillion dollars worth of debt and their yearly deficit is nearing 50% of the budget.

- 43 million Americans live by food stamps and that number is rapidly increasing. The number of unemployed American's has been steadily increasing.

- Europe is a financial time bomb waiting to happen. Greece is on the verge of default and it's going to lead to the destruction of the Euro and everything else in it's path as the effects ricochet across the world.

- The financial system already imploded in 2008. We've merely been unsustainably kicking the can down the road until another lehman brothers event happens.

Although I'm sure all this meaningless to you. But that's the problem - people have no financial background what-so-ever; and it's this mentality that is going to leave many unprepared for the inevitable 1930's type depression. People aren't taught in schools about how the monetary system works, what inflation is and how the government spends it's money. Something as fundamental as "interest rates" is a foreign concept to many.I bet if i were to ask you where money comes from, you wouldn't have a single clue. If you knew, you'd be outraged.

juliusmysad

Thats why i dont feel bad about not having any children.

bull.....we just recently found a oil field bigger than the ones in the middle east......America now has the most oil reserves in the world that could easily last us 200 plus years.......but the ever so powerful and intellegent EPA blocks a lot of drilling and processing of our own oil, which in turn we can only buy from foreign countries...gas could be a whole lot cheaper if the EPA lost a lot of its power.

ristactionjakso

Please link some evidence for this "oil field bigger than the ones in the middle east."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304392704576373380473285472.html

big oil field find in the gulf.

http://www.nachtkabarett.com/babalon/topic/9256--Report-America-has-more-Oil-than-anyother-country-

more oil in United States than any other country.

Not at all, it doesn't affect me very much.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304392704576373380473285472.html

big oil field find in the gulf.

ristactionjakso

That article excerpt doesn't say anything about the size other than it being one of the largest in the Gulf of Mexico found in the past decade. Anything in the Gulf of Mexico is dwarfed by what exists in places like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela or Russia.

http://www.nachtkabarett.com/babalon/topic/9256--Report-America-has-more-Oil-than-anyother-country-

more oil in United States than any other country.

ristactionjakso

Your link directs me to a Marilyn Manson message forum. The USGS link cited by the random forum poster says: "3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in North Dakota and Montana's Bakken Formation"

Saudi Arabia is estimated to have proven reserves of 260 billion barrels.

Here's a nice article to clear things up on who has the most oil. The U.S. comes in 14th, just ahead of Brazil:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33550165/World_s_Biggest_Oil_Reserves?slide=1

The data comes from the U.S. Energy information Administration.

I care, because even though I can't do a damn thing to stop it, I can protect my own assets and maybe even ride the potential downward wave with shorting moves :).