The majority of people in the US Pro-Life for the first time in 15 years.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

I had a thought. Wouldn't it be great if all the single-issue pro-lifers who believe it to be the greatest injustice in the world and worthy of god's terrible wrath would all adopt at least 1 unwanted child! I mean they care soo much about abortion they should be willing to take up the unwanted child. They can feed, clothe, and provide shelter for the child until they are of legal age. Put there money where their mouth is so to speak. But yeah I'd wager 99% ( a made up figure but i'll be damned if it isn't close) would never dream of doing such a thing, they can just **** moan and wail about unborn babiez being murdered, or they might take it upon themselves to go kill some abortion doctors or bomb a clinic. Save the babies! Save the whales! Praise be to the great abortionist in the sky!

ScorpionBeeBee

Do you think people with disabilites have a right to life? Yes? Then why don't you take a disabled man or woman into your home and take care of him or her?

I said we are talking about abortion to bean-with-bacon because she wanted me offer some ways to prevent pregnancies, when this is a discussion about abortion, not preventing teen pregnancies.

"Do you think people with disabilites have a right to life? Yes? Then why don't you take a disabled man or woman into your home and take care of him or her?" is an analogy, and, in context, quite relevant to the discussion at hand, considering what you said.

Fixed for Accuracyhtekemerald

mate, in case you didn't realize, people can have sex responsibly (e.g. use birth control) and still get pregnant.chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"]Obama is pro-choice...I suppose all the pro-lifer's have branded him pro-abortion, just like anyone else who believes in freedom of choice :roll: It doesn't surprise me to see that most people in the US a pro-life. Luckily the UK is more forward thinkingchessmaster1989

Forward thinking = allowing irresponsible people who got pregnant because they couldn't keep their pants on to kill another human being in order for their convenience.

:lol: mate, in case you didn't realize, people can have sex responsibly (e.g. use birth control) and still get pregnant.

I am not very forward thinking, I guess.

"I suppose all the pro-lifer's have branded him pro-abortion"

I thought you were against generalizations?

I fail to see how killing someone else for your convenience is responsible.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]Fixed for Accuracytofu-lion91

mate, in case you didn't realize, people can have sex responsibly (e.g. use birth control) and still get pregnant.chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]Fixed for Accuracytofu-lion91

mate, in case you didn't realize, people can have sex responsibly (e.g. use birth control) and still get pregnant.chessmaster1989

Glad to know that you value how you see a group of children above your child's life.

your child's life.McJugga

[QUOTE="McJugga"]your child's life.tofu-lion91

To quote theokhoth:

"1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.

2. Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.

3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.

4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.

5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.

6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and chemotaxis.

7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.

http://www.una.edu/faculty/pgdavison/BI%20101/Overview%20Fall%202004.htm"

I think it is pretty obvious that they are alive.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not - people deserve the CHOICE.

Why does the fetus not have a choice?

Pro-life people will still place kids up for adoption, the world will run as normal.

The world will continue to run as normal if 1 billion people were murdered in a single day. Saying the world will continue normally is an awful reason to supporting abortion.

By making it illegal you just encourage back-street abortions where women die.

They are making the choice to get illegal abortions... Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. We already discussed this.

And if you still want to make it illegal, what would your punishment be for the women that have them?

Hmm... Jail for murder.

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] I suppose just waiting isn't an option then...mindstorm

Not if you have no problem with abortion. Sex isn't only for making babies.

Not if you have no problem with abortion. Sex isn't only for making babies.

piratedrunk

[QUOTE="piratedrunk"]Not if you have no problem with abortion. Sex isn't only for making babies.

mindstorm

That's not really the same. It's a quality of life issue not a simple inconvenience like a full stomach. If you can't provide a caring, safe environment for your child you shouldn't have it. You might think people shouldn't have sex if that is the case but THAT is irrelevant. For people who don't want kids pregnancy is not a "main purpose"for sex. And even if your argument was relevant.. would you make it illegal for people to throw up so they could eat more?

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] I suppose just waiting isn't an option then...mindstorm

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"][QUOTE="McJugga"]your child's life.McJugga

To quote theokhoth:

"1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.

2. Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.

3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.

4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.

5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.

6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and chemotaxis.

7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.

http://www.una.edu/faculty/pgdavison/BI%20101/Overview%20Fall%202004.htm"

I think it is pretty obvious that they are alive.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not - people deserve the CHOICE.

Why does the fetus not have a choice?

Pro-life people will still place kids up for adoption, the world will run as normal.

The world will continue to run as normal if 1 billion people were murdered in a single day. Saying the world will continue normally is an awful reason to supporting abortion.

By making it illegal you just encourage back-street abortions where women die.

They are making the choice to get illegal abortions... Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. We already discussed this.

And if you still want to make it illegal, what would your punishment be for the women that have them?

Hmm... Jail for murder.

I think its pretty clear why he meant by live.

Cancer is alive, one kills cancer, one does not define it as murder.

WHY?!?!?

Because cancer does not think.

I read this poll earlier today and also some in-depth analysis about how they did the polling. I find the poll a little suspect, especially the idea about how many people support abortion being banned completely no matter what the reason. I know (being the huge Liberal that I am and the circle of friends I have) that I will always be pro-choice and hope it stays that way.

SEMANTICS YEAHHHHHHHHHH

I think its pretty clear why he meant by live.

Cancer is alive, one kills cancer, one does not define it as murder.

WHY?!?!?

Because cancer does not think.

htekemerald

She :P said that a fetus is not alive, a fetus is waiting to be alive. I was just pointing out that is not true.

How do you define a human being?

By thought? Then animals are human.

By emotions, and feelings? Then young babies are not anymore human than a cat.

How do you define a human?

What about rape victims? Should they be FORCED to have the child of their rapist? To go through 9 months of hell, child-birth and have to face that child everyday? And good points ScorpionBee :)tofu-lion91

Did that sound insane to anyone else?

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

SEMANTICS YEAHHHHHHHHHH

I think its pretty clear why he meant by live.

Cancer is alive, one kills cancer, one does not define it as murder.

WHY?!?!?

Because cancer does not think.

McJugga

She :P said that a fetus is not alive, a fetus is waiting to be alive. I was just pointing out that is not true.

How do you define a human being?

By thought? Then animals are human. Human though is far superior to that of other animals.

By emotions, and feelings? Then young babies are not anymore human than a cat. Children exhibit emotions.

How do you define a human?

Do Not Pass Go

Do Not Collect 200 Dollars

Oh and how do you define human, by the devaluing idea of DNA?

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"]What about rape victims? Should they be FORCED to have the child of their rapist? To go through 9 months of hell, child-birth and have to face that child everyday? And good points ScorpionBee :)htekemerald

Did that sound insane to anyone else?

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"]What about rape victims? Should they be FORCED to have the child of their rapist? To go through 9 months of hell, child-birth and have to face that child everyday?/QUOTE]

As many others have said throughout this thread, rape is more of a grey area.

However, I still think the mother should give birth.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

SEMANTICS YEAHHHHHHHHHH

I think its pretty clear why he meant by live.

Cancer is alive, one kills cancer, one does not define it as murder.

WHY?!?!?

Because cancer does not think.

McJugga

She :P said that a fetus is not alive, a fetus is waiting to be alive. I was just pointing out that is not true.

How do you define a human being?

By thought? Then animals are human.

By emotions, and feelings? Then young babies are not anymore human than a cat.

How do you define a human?

I know you didn't ask me but I would love to take this opportunity to say I have just as much of a problem with putting down a sick animal as I do with abortion. It sucks to have to make the decision but sometimes its better for everyone.

Sorry, play again.htekemerald

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

SEMANTICS YEAHHHHHHHHHH

I think its pretty clear why he meant by live.

Cancer is alive, one kills cancer, one does not define it as murder.

WHY?!?!?

Because cancer does not think.

htekemerald

She :P said that a fetus is not alive, a fetus is waiting to be alive. I was just pointing out that is not true.

How do you define a human being?

By thought? Then animals are human. Human though is far superior to that of other animals.

By emotions, and feelings? Then young babies are not anymore human than a cat. Children exhibit emotions.

How do you define a human?

Children may exhibit emotions, but the emotions of a newborn are not nearly the same as an adult.

Do you become more of a human as you get older?

Some animals can have emotions that are greater than other animals, does this make them human than other animals?

The answer to both of these questions is no. This is because human beings are not defined by our thought capabilities.

However, I still think the mother should give birth.McJugga

I know you didn't ask me but I would love to take this opportunity to say I have just as much of a problem with putting down a sick animal as I do with abortion. It sucks to have to make the decision but sometimes its better for everyone.

piratedrunk

Killing an animal that will only suffer and die in short amount of time =/= killing a innocent human that has the rest of its life to live.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]However, I still think the mother should give birth.tofu-lion91

As I said, it is more of a grey area. I said that I still think the mother should give birth. I never said there should be any laws.

As I said, it is more of a grey area. I said that I still think the mother should give birth. I never said there should be any laws.McJugga

[QUOTE="McJugga"]As I said, it is more of a grey area. I said that I still think the mother should give birth. I never said there should be any laws.tofu-lion91

Not true.

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

SEMANTICS YEAHHHHHHHHHH

I think its pretty clear why he meant by live.

Cancer is alive, one kills cancer, one does not define it as murder.

WHY?!?!?

Because cancer does not think.

piratedrunk

She :P said that a fetus is not alive, a fetus is waiting to be alive. I was just pointing out that is not true.

How do you define a human being?

By thought? Then animals are human.

By emotions, and feelings? Then young babies are not anymore human than a cat.

How do you define a human?

I know you didn't ask me but I would love to take this opportunity to say I have just as much of a problem with putting down a sick animal as I do with abortion. It sucks to have to make the decision but sometimes its better for everyone.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

She :P said that a fetus is not alive, a fetus is waiting to be alive. I was just pointing out that is not true.

How do you define a human being?

By thought? Then animals are human. Human though is far superior to that of other animals.

By emotions, and feelings? Then young babies are not anymore human than a cat. Children exhibit emotions.

How do you define a human?

McJugga

Children may exhibit emotions, but the emotions of a newborn are not nearly the same as an adult. John Jackson's Emotions are not the Same as Jack Johnson's... People are different.

Do you become more of a human as you get older? different emotions =/= less emotions

Some animals can have emotions that are greater than other animals, does this make them human than other animals? Having one or two human characteristics does not a human make.

The answer to both of these questions is no. This is because human beings are not defined by our thought capabilities. Ok What defines us? opposable thumbs?

[QUOTE="piratedrunk"]

I know you didn't ask me but I would love to take this opportunity to say I have just as much of a problem with putting down a sick animal as I do with abortion. It sucks to have to make the decision but sometimes its better for everyone.

McJugga

Killing an animal that will only suffer and die in short amount of time =/= killing a innocent human that has the rest of its life to live.

But the kid would suffer. It is unwanted and the parents are unable to care for it. Not every kid can be adopted into a loving home with enough money to support them. It is irresponsible for people to bring a child into anything less. If people are using birth control and an accident happens they shouldn't be condemned to having an unwanted child and the child should not be condemned to a life of misery. The world is overpopulated as it is and ending a potential "life" (brackets used because I don't care what your definition of life is) is really the best way to go in many cases insterad of having the kid because of some misplaced sense of morality or obligation.

Children may exhibit emotions, but the emotions of a newborn are not nearly the same as an adult.

John Jackson's Emotions are not the Same as Jack Johnson's... People are different.

Babies do have less emotions than adults.

Do you become more of a human as you get older?

different emotions =/= less emotions

Babies do have less emotions than adults

Some animals can have emotions that are greater than other animals, does this make them human than other animals?

Having one or two human characteristics does not a human make.

It doesn't make them human. But if you define humans by their emotions, then the more emotions that an animal has, the more human it is.

The answer to both of these questions is no. This is because human beings are not defined by our thought capabilities.

Ok What defines us? opposable thumbs?

1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.

Therefore, fetuses are human.

htekemerald

Not true.McJugga

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

[QUOTE="piratedrunk"]

I know you didn't ask me but I would love to take this opportunity to say I have just as much of a problem with putting down a sick animal as I do with abortion. It sucks to have to make the decision but sometimes its better for everyone.

piratedrunk

Killing an animal that will only suffer and die in short amount of time =/= killing a innocent human that has the rest of its life to live.

But the kid would suffer. It is unwanted and the parents are unable to care for it. Not every kid can be adopted into a loving home with enough money to support them. It is irresponsible for people to bring a child into anything less.

A newborn baby may also suffer throughout their life, so why can't we put him or her out of their misery?

There is no guaruntee that she or he will suffer throughout their entire life. They deserve the chance to determine their own life.

[QUOTE="piratedrunk"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

She :P said that a fetus is not alive, a fetus is waiting to be alive. I was just pointing out that is not true.

How do you define a human being?

By thought? Then animals are human.

By emotions, and feelings? Then young babies are not anymore human than a cat.

How do you define a human?

videogamer456

I know you didn't ask me but I would love to take this opportunity to say I have just as much of a problem with putting down a sick animal as I do with abortion. It sucks to have to make the decision but sometimes its better for everyone.

Interesting questions! And very loaded indeed. I guess I don't believe in the death penalty.. I just don't see it as punishment enough. When it comes to putting down a mentally retarded person I guess it would depend heavily on a lot of factors but I don't envy or feel negatively towards any family member who has to make such a choice. I think if someone wants to die though they have every right to.

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"]Let me straighten this out - a FETUS is not a child. It has never lived. It's waiting to live.

To quote theokhoth:

"1. Homeostasis:

2. Organization:

3. Metabolism:

4. Growth:

5. Adaptation:

6. Response to stimuli:

7. Reproduction:

http://www.una.edu/faculty/pgdavison/BI%20101/Overview%20Fall%202004.htm"

I think it is pretty obvious that they are alive.

Last time I checked, fetuses have no ability to reproduce. The characteristics of a living organism aren't something you can pick and choose; the organism needs to fit all characteristics.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not - people deserve the CHOICE.

Why does the fetus not have a choice?

Because the fetus can't think for itself.

Pro-life people will still place kids up for adoption, the world will run as normal.

The world will continue to run as normal if 1 billion people were murdered in a single day. Saying the world will continue normally is an awful reason to supporting abortion.

While you do make a fine point, I don't think that's what she meant... But I'm not one who can say for certain.

By making it illegal you just encourage back-street abortions where women die.

They are making the choice to get illegal abortions... Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. We already discussed this.

No one is forcing anyone to get an abortion with the way things are now, so what's the problem?

And if you still want to make it illegal, what would your punishment be for the women that have them?

Hmm... Jail for murder.

abortion -the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.

For further reading, see LIFE.

murder - to kill (another human) unlawfullyMcJugga

[QUOTE="piratedrunk"]

[QUOTE="McJugga"]

Killing an animal that will only suffer and die in short amount of time =/= killing a innocent human that has the rest of its life to live.

McJugga

But the kid would suffer. It is unwanted and the parents are unable to care for it. Not every kid can be adopted into a loving home with enough money to support them. It is irresponsible for people to bring a child into anything less.

A newborn baby may also suffer throughout their life, so why can't we put him or her out of their misery?

There is no guaruntee that she or he will suffer throughout their entire life. They deserve the chance to determine their own life.

Just because there is no guarantee doesn't mean it isn't likely. Sometimes people have to make hard decisions based on what they have. I think if a parent who has no money wants to have a child it is irresponsible.. but I would never think they shouldn't have the choice to have the kid.. just as I would never expect a parent who doesn't believe they could take care of it to try anyways just because of that chance. fetuses are not capable of making decisions.. so we have to choose for them. Wether it is in what food to eat while pregnant or wether to have them in the first place it is up to the parents ultimately to make that decision based on what they can handle.

That's pretty surprising not the pro-life thing but the first time in 15 years thing I could've sworn people have been anti-abortion for as long as I can remember. That aside I don't see abortion can be justified, I mean i've heard of the arguements about emotion, woman's body woman's choice, and not born or whatever. But I just don't see how anyone can say it's a good thing. I mean these babies being aborted could have been us and I don't see why I don't deserve a right to life

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

Children may exhibit emotions, but the emotions of a newborn are not nearly the same as an adult.

John Jackson's Emotions are not the Same as Jack Johnson's... People are different.

Babies do have less emotions than adults.

If you say so

Do you become more of a human as you get older?

different emotions =/= less emotions

Babies do have less emotions than adults

If you say so again

Some animals can have emotions that are greater than other animals, does this make them human than other animals?

Having one or two human characteristics does not a human make.

It doesn't make them human. But if you define humans by their emotions, then the more emotions that an animal has, the more human it is.

So

The answer to both of these questions is no. This is because human beings are not defined by our thought capabilities.

Ok What defines us? opposable thumbs?

1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.

Therefore, fetuses are human.

Ok, if humans are nothing more than a member of a member of a taxanomic group, with no other defining characteristics why should we care whether or not we abort fetuses.

Also "Human" is not a taxinomic term

McJugga

[QUOTE="McJugga"]Not true.tofu-lion91

Majority of the people in the United States, or majority of the people who answered the poll?Welkabonz

[QUOTE="Welkabonz"]Majority of the people in the United States, or majority of the people who answered the poll?sSubZerOo

I dont get how someone could be "pro killing unborn babies". It blows my brain when people talk about all the death in Darfur, and then go on a pro choice rant.

I dont get how someone could be "pro killing unborn babies". It blows my brain when people talk about all the death in Darfur, and then go on a pro choice rant.

magnax1

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

I dont get how someone could be "pro killing unborn babies". It blows my brain when people talk about all the death in Darfur, and then go on a pro choice rant.

sSubZerOo

They aren't aborting there own body, there killing an undead baby. Have you ever thought of it like, If my mom had aborted with me i wouldn't be alive, because that is basically killing you! (I hope u get wut im saying)

[QUOTE="Welkabonz"]Majority of the people in the United States, or majority of the people who answered the poll?sSubZerOo