There is irrefutable evidence that the christian god doesnt exist!!

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Theokhoth

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#51 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="lordreaven"] i still worship Zeus..................so......um does that still make it mythology? And if so tehn why not oclassify other religions as Mythology? I'm serious on this too.lordreaven

All religions are mythology. A myth isn't a falsity.

I understand that, but if you call Islam a myth or christianity a myth you would get laughed out of a room, or lynched depending were you live.

I actually learned this from Christians. A myth is just a story.

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THE_DRUGGIE

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#52 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts
[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"][QUOTE="pspdseagle"]Only Chirstian? You should replace it by all regligions.lordreaven
Except Norse Paganism. All hail Odin!

hey a friendly pagan!

Thor smiles upon you, kind sir! :D
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#53 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

I wouldn't exactly call that "evidence". But something more along the lines of an already tired and well-refuted argument against God that really doesn't "prove" anything, except that there are some contradictions within the Christian theology regarding God's supposed omnipotence and omnibenevolence.

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#54 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="Assassin1349"] I'm actually not even talking about the atrocities human commit. God has permitted nature itself to kill us with diseases and the planets own tools of disaster. Apparently he loves to hate a lot of people too. MystikFollower

I wouldn't say there is hatred, but a balance. If there is no balance then there is nothing, if there is nothing then there is no life.

And very few people (due to the mass unconsciousness of the world) actually realize that we do have a huge part in creating our realities (science actually supports that) and that our reality is based on our personal consciousness, and the collective consciousness of the world. When you have a very dark and dangerously unconscious collective, creating their reality, it's going to lead to many bad things. If you need proof of that just look at Human history. The collective consciousness has a bigger hand in causing mass death and destruction than anything God could send our way. He set up the laws of the Universe specifically and the Laws of cause and effect, so he's not going to violate those laws to save us when we cause harm to ourselves and wonder why the world is such a messed up place. People love to live in blind denial and place the blame on an immaterial entity.

Ofcourse people are to be blamed for the earthquake on haiti and chile. People are to be blamed for the tsunami. People are to be blamed for AIDS and cancer...:roll:

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imaps3fanboy

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#55 imaps3fanboy
Member since 2009 • 11169 Posts

I really don't understand why atheists are so persistant on trying to disprove intelligent design. I also understand why atheists get mad at preachy Christians though.

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xscrapzx

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#56 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="vidplayer8"]

Yeah, this is gamespot off topic. I should really take this seriously. I guess you're right, all christians are now wrong /sarcasm.

So his irrefutable evidence is that we humans do horrible things to each other, animals, and our planet and God doesn't do anything to stop it? No, that's one of the weakest arguments against God IMO. The Bible and just about every other spiritual text in History has made it clear that we are given FREE WILL to make the choices we want to make and that God is not going to interfere and take that free will away. I wont get into any debates about whether I think we'll be judged for those choices, cause this is not the thread for that discussion. However, you should know that using the fact that humans do horrible things to each other and God doesn't stop as an argument for his nonexistence is a ridiculous argument.

That very response was the reason why I used that video as an example but I guess you didnt actually read the thread.:roll:

Why do animals suffer? And why do animals brutally torture humans? What's the point of suffering at the hands of animals? They dont have free will...

Animals don't have free will? Please explain why they don't.
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Gambler_3

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#57 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

So his irrefutable evidence is that we humans do horrible things to each other, animals, and our planet and God doesn't do anything to stop it? No, that's one of the weakest arguments against God IMO. The Bible and just about every other spiritual text in History has made it clear that we are given FREE WILL to make the choices we want to make and that God is not going to interfere and take that free will away. I wont get into any debates about whether I think we'll be judged for those choices, cause this is not the thread for that discussion. However, you should know that using the fact that humans do horrible things to each other and God doesn't stop as an argument for his nonexistence is a ridiculous argument.

MystikFollower

That very response was the reason why I used that video as an example but I guess you didnt actually read the thread.:roll:

Why do animals suffer? And why do animals brutally torture humans? What's the point of suffering at the hands of animals? They dont have free will...

It's nature. You should watch the Lion King sometime. A little something called, the Circle of Life. You're basing your entire argument on the idea also that this physical existence is all their is to our lives. If we have an eternity of absolute love and knowing to experience, and endless different forms of life to experience (since that IS the point of life, to evolve and experience), then this one little life becomes pretty meaningless. The world is dominated by mind rather than consciousness so that's why you see the world you do.

I only percieve things which are real, this life is and none of the fairytale BS that religion espouses.

Oh and gudluck getting endless love from a merciless god in another life who treats us like **** in this one...

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Gambler_3

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#58 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

The hyenas eat the buffalo to get the necessary energy from it in order for them to survive. If the buffalo does not suffer, the hyenas will. God created this natural cycle which all forms of life fit into. Humans are no exception. harashawn
They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

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Theokhoth

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#59 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]No, people haven't been saying the exact same nonsense you just spouted since Epicurus. You're completely original.Gambler_3

:roll:

It's a natural argument, you dont have to read anything on it to realise it, I didnt...

More like it's the same nonsense that religions have been able to answers for centureis.:lol:

You're right; religious people have been answering this for centuries. Look up:

St. Thomas Aquinas

St. Augustine

Every Pope there's ever been

Every influential Christian of the past three hundred years (Lewis, Locke, Rousseau, Milton, Montesquieu, etc. etc.).

Take any basic philosophy class in any secular institution and you'll get the same thing, really.

:roll:

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lordreaven

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#60 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts
[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"] Except Norse Paganism. All hail Odin!THE_DRUGGIE
hey a friendly pagan!

Thor smiles upon you, kind sir! :D

and Dionsiyious offers you a drink...or 3.
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Gambler_3

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#61 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Snipes_2

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

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Theokhoth

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#62 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="harashawn"] The hyenas eat the buffalo to get the necessary energy from it in order for them to survive. If the buffalo does not suffer, the hyenas will. God created this natural cycle which all forms of life fit into. Humans are no exception. Gambler_3

They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

Pain is our bodies' way of telling us something is wrong. Without pain, we would have to walk carefully throughout our lives, constantly checking to make sure we haven't been stabbed. Surprise: suffering has a purpose, and I'm damn glad for it.

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Theokhoth

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#63 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Gambler_3

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

The ability to do anything that is possible. How do you know this is possible?
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Gaming-Planet

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#64 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21106 Posts
[QUOTE="Assassin1349"][QUOTE="Gaming-Planet"]

They have faith that there is something with higher power than us. The bible never really actually described what God is. He's not a human, he's not a thing, he's the creation of everything.

Yet some people go as far to label him as a personal and caring being.

I think it's stupid when people label themselves. Very close minded people.
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lordreaven

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#65 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"]

All religions are mythology. A myth isn't a falsity.Theokhoth
I understand that, but if you call Islam a myth or christianity a myth you would get laughed out of a room, or lynched depending were you live.

I actually learned this from Christians. A myth is just a story.

Awesome.............so they won't burn us any more *expels deep breath* woo, glad thats over. But in all seriousness its nice to see people not following dogma.
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lordreaven

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#66 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="lordreaven"] i still worship Zeus..................so......um does that still make it mythology? And if so tehn why not oclassify other religions as Mythology? I'm serious on this too.Daxo90

All religions are mythology. A myth isn't a falsity.

Yes I noticed that don't really know how to phrase it properly since its 1am and my brain is taking a break atm

well then have good nights sleep and get back to me :)
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#67 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Theokhoth

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

The ability to do anything that is possible. How do you know this is possible?

Not to be a rabble rouser, but the OED says that it is unlimited power. Unlimited meaning absolute with no checks and balances. Not that I agree with this mans assertions. As God, I think that his attempts at ascertaining the ultimate good v. the ultimate evil of any given act are based on a limited view on reality.
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Theokhoth

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#68 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] I understand that, but if you call Islam a myth or christianity a myth you would get laughed out of a room, or lynched depending were you live.

lordreaven

I actually learned this from Christians. A myth is just a story.

Awesome.............so they won't burn us any more *expels deep breath* woo, glad thats over. But in all seriousness its nice to see people not following dogma.

This has never been a problem. >_> The term "myth" has never meant (except in recent memory when religious education is sorely lacking amongst high schoolers. . .) a falsity.

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Gambler_3

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#69 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

So his irrefutable evidence is that we humans do horrible things to each other, animals, and our planet and God doesn't do anything to stop it? No, that's one of the weakest arguments against God IMO. The Bible and just about every other spiritual text in History has made it clear that we are given FREE WILL to make the choices we want to make and that God is not going to interfere and take that free will away. I wont get into any debates about whether I think we'll be judged for those choices, cause this is not the thread for that discussion. However, you should know that using the fact that humans do horrible things to each other and God doesn't stop as an argument for his nonexistence is a ridiculous argument.

xscrapzx

That very response was the reason why I used that video as an example but I guess you didnt actually read the thread.:roll:

Why do animals suffer? And why do animals brutally torture humans? What's the point of suffering at the hands of animals? They dont have free will...

Animals don't have free will? Please explain why they don't.

Yes they only work as they are programmed to. They dont know right from wrong and are in capable of causing suffering for the sake of it...

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#70 Daxo90
Member since 2009 • 1533 Posts

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"][QUOTE="lordreaven"] hey a friendly pagan!lordreaven
Thor smiles upon you, kind sir! :D

and Dionsiyious offers you a drink...or 3.

May the Golden gates of Valhalla welcome you friend ... I wanted to join in :(

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Superbored

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#71 Superbored
Member since 2008 • 1187 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Gambler_3

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

Well, supposedly God created the Earth in seven days. Either he was just pacing himself (doesn't explain why he had to rest) or he really can't make things happen by snapping his fingers.

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Theokhoth

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#72 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

Vandalvideo

The ability to do anything that is possible. How do you know this is possible?

Not to be a rabble rouser, but the OED says that it is unlimited power. Unlimited meaning absolute with no checks and balances. Not that I agree with this mans assertions. As God, I think that his attempts at ascertaining the ultimate good v. the ultimate evil of any given act are based on a limited view on reality.

St. Thomas Aquinas says that it's the ability to do anything that can be done. The man who defined every aspect of Medieval Catholic theology (and wrote it down) > OED. >____>

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#73 MystikFollower
Member since 2009 • 4061 Posts

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"] Well, to be honest, I don't blame an immaterial entity because I don't believe that it is what the Abrahamic religions make it out to be. If it exists, I believe that it only serves one purpose and that is to allow existence to be. IT doesn't care about you, me or this planet. Assassin1349

I agree with the idea that the God of the Bible has been misinterpreted and misrepresented many times throughout History. I believe every faith is probably pointing to the same God, and that he is an absolute creator. I do believe he's an unconditionally loving Being however, and that all our ideas about how vengeful and wrathful he can become is a mythology. The actual creator is probably much more simple in nature, simple yet infinitely complex. I can't fathom the mind that could create such a Universe with mere consciousness.

Why does it have to be an unconditionally loving being? What's wrong with indifference?

Because the natural state of the Universe, of God, of life itself, is pure love. Not love in the way Humans have made it throughout History. We've reduced the word Love to something almost completely meaningless. Absolute being though is what many religions and eastern beliefs believe to be the unmanifested absolute joy, peace, and love that comes through enlightenment. Very few people have achieved this enlightenment throughout history, but many have experienced moments of absolute peace or joy or love. It usually comes when you've managed to completely stop the incessant thinking of the mind (which is a dangerous disease that afflicts all of us) and just Be. It's taking me many many hours of deep meditation to experience what those spiritual teachings talk about for even a few moments, but I have managed to experience it twice now. It's a truly indescribable experience and only strengthened my resolve in connecting to that inner being as much as I can.

I don't believe God is indifferent to his creation, cause if there's indifference why create it in the first place? Here's exactly what I believe based on what I've learned from the Bible, many other teachings, and my own meditation and prayer.

I think before the Universe was created, Being (God, pure consciousness, whatever you want to call it) was all there was. This is indescribable really to human comprehension, but this Being was absolute knowing and eternal love (the purest energy form of life I believe). Since God was all there was, and nothing existed that was apart or not God, so pure consciousness could only know itself conceptually... Not experientially. I believe that God wanted to experience the various aspects of his divinity, but since there was nothing else he could only know it. If there was only cold water, how would you ever know hot? If there was no up, down would be meaningless. So I believe in his desire to experience the aspects of life and God, he created the illusion of separation between himself and himself, and created many individuations of his own consciousness that has come into the realm of relativity to be able to look back and experience the many different aspects of God.

Right now, I believe consciousness is evolving all throughout the cosmos in endlessly different forms and levels. We are one of the species that has come to a point of conscious evolution that we can now ponder our own existence and the very meaning of the vast cosmos that gave birth to the very molecules and atoms that make us up now. Unfortunately, we need to make the next conscious leap before our society's mind-dominated people destroy ourselves.

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#74 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Theokhoth

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

The ability to do anything that is possible. How do you know this is possible?

No omnipotence means unlimited power...

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lordreaven

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#75 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts

[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"] Thor smiles upon you, kind sir! :DDaxo90

and Dionsiyious offers you a drink...or 3.

May the Golden gates of Valhalla welcome you friend ... I wanted to join in :(

I'm not norse pagan, i'm greek pagan, and the norse gods are my peeps. But Dionisyious and Zeus and the others welcome you.
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#76 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

Gambler_3

The ability to do anything that is possible. How do you know this is possible?

No omnipotence means unlimited power...

God can't make a four-sided triangle without changing what the triangle is, eliminating the purpose in the first place. Omnipotence is the ability to do anything logically possible. Could God make a triangular planet? Sure. Could God make a triangular planet with five sides and no corners? No.

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#77 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Gambler_3

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

So You think he could destroy all evil people? Every person has evil in them, so he would essentially need to destroy the Earth.
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#78 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="harashawn"] The hyenas eat the buffalo to get the necessary energy from it in order for them to survive. If the buffalo does not suffer, the hyenas will. God created this natural cycle which all forms of life fit into. Humans are no exception. Theokhoth

They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

Pain is our bodies' way of telling us something is wrong. Without pain, we would have to walk carefully throughout our lives, constantly checking to make sure we haven't been stabbed. Surprise: suffering has a purpose, and I'm damn glad for it.

Why even make the body so fragile that it would be capable of so much suffering? Why create such ruthless animals like dogs and hyenas?

Why not end pain and misery when it has clearly lost it's purpose and only become a torture? What does it tell about the all powerful designer?

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Assassin1349

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#79 Assassin1349
Member since 2009 • 2798 Posts

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"][QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

I agree with the idea that the God of the Bible has been misinterpreted and misrepresented many times throughout History. I believe every faith is probably pointing to the same God, and that he is an absolute creator. I do believe he's an unconditionally loving Being however, and that all our ideas about how vengeful and wrathful he can become is a mythology. The actual creator is probably much more simple in nature, simple yet infinitely complex. I can't fathom the mind that could create such a Universe with mere consciousness.

MystikFollower

Why does it have to be an unconditionally loving being? What's wrong with indifference?

Because the natural state of the Universe, of God, of life itself, is pure love. Not love in the way Humans have made it throughout History. We've reduced the word Love to something almost completely meaningless. Absolute being though is what many religions and eastern beliefs believe to be the unmanifested absolute joy, peace, and love that comes through enlightenment. Very few people have achieved this enlightenment throughout history, but many have experienced moments of absolute peace or joy or love. It usually comes when you've managed to completely stop the incessant thinking of the mind (which is a dangerous disease that afflicts all of us) and just Be. It's taking me many many hours of deep meditation to experience what those spiritual teachings talk about for even a few moments, but I have managed to experience it twice now. It's a truly indescribable experience and only strengthened my resolve in connecting to that inner being as much as I can.

I don't believe God is indifferent to his creation, cause if there's indifference why create it in the first place? Here's exactly what I believe based on what I've learned from the Bible, many other teachings, and my own meditation and prayer.

I think before the Universe was created, Being (God, pure consciousness, whatever you want to call it) was all there was. This is indescribable really to human comprehension, but this Being was absolute knowing and eternal love (the purest energy form of life I believe). Since God was all there was, and nothing existed that was apart or not God, so pure consciousness could only know itself conceptually... Not experientially. I believe that God wanted to experience the various aspects of his divinity, but since there was nothing else he could only know it. If there was only cold water, how would you ever know hot? If there was no up, down would be meaningless. So I believe in his desire to experience the aspects of life and God, he created the illusion of separation between himself and himself, and created many individuations of his own consciousness that has come into the realm of relativity to be able to look back and experience the many different aspects of God.

Right now, I believe consciousness is evolving all throughout the cosmos in endlessly different forms and levels. We are one of the species that has come to a point of conscious evolution that we can now ponder our own existence and the very meaning of the vast cosmos that gave birth to the very molecules and atoms that make us up now. Unfortunately, we need to make the next conscious leap before our society's mind-dominated people destroy ourselves.

That's great and all but you basically answered my question with "because".
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#80 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts

They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

Gambler_3

Without suffering, happiness is meaningless. How can one truly feel happy if no suffering came before it? We suffer so that the good events have more meaning for ourselves and others. When the buffalo suffers, it suffers for the good of the hyenas. Everything in life, be it suffering or happiness, will always occur for the good of something else. A plant suffers for a caterpillar, and the caterpillar for the bird, and the bird for the lynx, and so on. All suffering leads to good.

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Vandalvideo

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#81 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
St. Thomas Aquinas says that it's the ability to do anything that can be done. The man who defined every aspect of Medieval Catholic theology (and wrote it down) is better than OEDTheokhoth
Hah, priests. No one listens to them in Heaven.
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#82 Assassin1349
Member since 2009 • 2798 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

harashawn

Without suffering, happiness is meaningless. How can one truly feel happy if no suffering came before it? We suffer so that the good events have more meaning for ourselves and others. When the buffalo suffers, it suffers for the good of the hyenas. Everything in life, be it suffering or happiness, will always occur for the good of something else. A plant suffers for a caterpillar, and the caterpillar for the bird, and the bird for the lynx, and so on. All suffering leads to good.

Happiness and suffering are two separate entities. Nor do I think that one is meaningless without the other.
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Theokhoth

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#83 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

Gambler_3

Pain is our bodies' way of telling us something is wrong. Without pain, we would have to walk carefully throughout our lives, constantly checking to make sure we haven't been stabbed. Surprise: suffering has a purpose, and I'm damn glad for it.

Why even make the body so fragile that it would be capable of so much suffering?

Because if we're unbreakable then how will we die?

Why create such ruthless animals like dogs and hyenas?

To control the populations of their prey. There is an ecological system in place: predators eat prey; less predators, prey overpopulates, eats too many plants and harms the ecosystem.

Why not end pain and misery when it has clearly lost it's purpose and only become a torture?

You're still using the word "purpose" as though it means anything at all.

What does it tell about the all powerful designer?

That He knows how to design a pretty efficient system, considering how long we've been around.

That "bad design" argument is so tired. . .kinda like me. . .

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Daxo90

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#84 Daxo90
Member since 2009 • 1533 Posts

[QUOTE="Daxo90"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] and Dionsiyious offers you a drink...or 3.lordreaven

May the Golden gates of Valhalla welcome you friend ... I wanted to join in :(

I'm not norse pagan, i'm greek pagan, and the norse gods are my peeps. But Dionisyious and Zeus and the others welcome you.

I'll AcceptDionysus invitation, Greek God of wine and ecstasy right? YES I will definitely go with Dionysus

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Meinhard1

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#85 Meinhard1
Member since 2010 • 6790 Posts

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Gambler_3

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

You have a point here, Christians to believe in an omnipotent god. But in response to why pain exists - Thats why there's heaven. According to the main Christian world view, Earth is an imperfect place, characterized by pain. However any suffering on Earth would be negated by an eternity in heaven. Also the mainstream judo-christian world view seems to place little importance on the lives of animals.
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Superbored

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#86 Superbored
Member since 2008 • 1187 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

harashawn

Without suffering, happiness is meaningless. How can one truly feel happy if no suffering came before it? We suffer so that the good events have more meaning for ourselves and others. When the buffalo suffers, it suffers for the good of the hyenas. Everything in life, be it suffering or happiness, will always occur for the good of something else. A plant suffers for a caterpillar, and the caterpillar for the bird, and the bird for the lynx, and so on. All suffering leads to good.

So in essence you're saying God created a world where everyone must selfishly cause suffering to others just so they can survive for a day? Sounds like a great guy to me.

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Gambler_3

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#87 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

So, You think God can just Snap his fingers and all evil will disappear magically? Wow.

Superbored

Yes ofcourse, look up the definition of omnipotent...

Well, supposedly God created the Earth in seven days. Either he was just pacing himself (doesn't explain why he had to rest) or he really can't make things happen by snapping his fingers.

He did it for the lulz.

Well on a serious nore, just because he did in 7 days obviously does not mean that he cant do whatever he wants to. He took rest for the lulz? Maybe god also has feelings ya know...

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Gambler_3

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#88 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

St. Thomas Aquinas says that it's the ability to do anything that can be done. The man who defined every aspect of Medieval Catholic theology (and wrote it down) > OED. >____>

Theokhoth

lol and? Why should it matter what he said?

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MystikFollower

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#89 MystikFollower
Member since 2009 • 4061 Posts

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]Why does it have to be an unconditionally loving being? What's wrong with indifference? Assassin1349

Because the natural state of the Universe, of God, of life itself, is pure love. Not love in the way Humans have made it throughout History. We've reduced the word Love to something almost completely meaningless. Absolute being though is what many religions and eastern beliefs believe to be the unmanifested absolute joy, peace, and love that comes through enlightenment. Very few people have achieved this enlightenment throughout history, but many have experienced moments of absolute peace or joy or love. It usually comes when you've managed to completely stop the incessant thinking of the mind (which is a dangerous disease that afflicts all of us) and just Be. It's taking me many many hours of deep meditation to experience what those spiritual teachings talk about for even a few moments, but I have managed to experience it twice now. It's a truly indescribable experience and only strengthened my resolve in connecting to that inner being as much as I can.

I don't believe God is indifferent to his creation, cause if there's indifference why create it in the first place? Here's exactly what I believe based on what I've learned from the Bible, many other teachings, and my own meditation and prayer.

I think before the Universe was created, Being (God, pure consciousness, whatever you want to call it) was all there was. This is indescribable really to human comprehension, but this Being was absolute knowing and eternal love (the purest energy form of life I believe). Since God was all there was, and nothing existed that was apart or not God, so pure consciousness could only know itself conceptually... Not experientially. I believe that God wanted to experience the various aspects of his divinity, but since there was nothing else he could only know it. If there was only cold water, how would you ever know hot? If there was no up, down would be meaningless. So I believe in his desire to experience the aspects of life and God, he created the illusion of separation between himself and himself, and created many individuations of his own consciousness that has come into the realm of relativity to be able to look back and experience the many different aspects of God.

Right now, I believe consciousness is evolving all throughout the cosmos in endlessly different forms and levels. We are one of the species that has come to a point of conscious evolution that we can now ponder our own existence and the very meaning of the vast cosmos that gave birth to the very molecules and atoms that make us up now. Unfortunately, we need to make the next conscious leap before our society's mind-dominated people destroy ourselves.

That's great and all but you basically answered my question with "because".

:lol: Trust me I know anything I can say here will fall on deaf ears. I'm not trying to debate or change your mind, I'm just telling you what I believe based on my studying and personal experience. The wonderful thing about free will is that you are absolutely free to believe what you choose, and that's wonderful you've found something that you can get behind and believe fully :). There is no wrong path that wont lead where were all leading, and one day you'll realize just how unimportant this existence is compared to actual Being. All the money, houses, cars, cell phones, and social statuses wont mean anything one day. I've found my faith and I think it's great for anyone to find what they believe in, even if it's not God. This thread will go nowhere though and I've made my points so have a great day. :)

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Gambler_3

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#90 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] The ability to do anything that is possible. How do you know this is possible?Theokhoth

No omnipotence means unlimited power...

God can't make a four-sided triangle without changing what the triangle is, eliminating the purpose in the first place. Omnipotence is the ability to do anything logically possible. Could God make a triangular planet? Sure. Could God make a triangular planet with five sides and no corners? No.

What is a triangle?

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dared3vil0

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#91 dared3vil0
Member since 2009 • 1254 Posts

[QUOTE="vidplayer8"]

Yeah, this is gamespot off topic. I should really take this seriously. I guess you're right, all christians are now wrong /sarcasm.

TheMightyHoov

This :P

This +2.
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Theokhoth

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#92 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts
Anywho, this topic makes the same exact mistake every single religion topic here makes: YOU DIDN'T DEFINE YOUR TERMS. Some words you should define before ever, ever beginning discussing: "God" "Christianity" "Suffering" "Evil" "Evidence" "Omnipotence" That's step one. Then everybody needs to agree with the terms and find a compromise if they don't agree off the bat. THEN you may discuss. God.
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lordreaven

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#93 lordreaven
Member since 2005 • 7239 Posts

[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="Daxo90"]

May the Golden gates of Valhalla welcome you friend ... I wanted to join in :(

Daxo90

I'm not norse pagan, i'm greek pagan, and the norse gods are my peeps. But Dionisyious and Zeus and the others welcome you.

I'll AcceptDionysus invitation, Greek God of wine and ecstasy right? YES I will definitely go with Dionysus

If your lucky, you might get to hook up with Aphrodite, nothing beats waking up to her in the moring after partying with dionysious (i keep misspelling his name lol).

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Gambler_3

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#94 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

harashawn

Without suffering, happiness is meaningless. How can one truly feel happy if no suffering came before it? We suffer so that the good events have more meaning for ourselves and others. When the buffalo suffers, it suffers for the good of the hyenas. Everything in life, be it suffering or happiness, will always occur for the good of something else. A plant suffers for a caterpillar, and the caterpillar for the bird, and the bird for the lynx, and so on. All suffering leads to good.

How do the hyenas benefit from the suffering of the baffalo? They only want the meat, it could be in a "much" more merciful way...

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mattbbpl

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#95 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23336 Posts
Hmmmm.... I somehow expected more of an argument than "God doesn't do what I expect him to, therefore he must not exist".
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Snipes_2

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#96 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

St. Thomas Aquinas says that it's the ability to do anything that can be done. The man who defined every aspect of Medieval Catholic theology (and wrote it down) > OED. >____>

Gambler_3

lol and? Why should it matter what he said?

Why should it matter what the OED said? St. Thomas Aquinas was a philosopher as well as a theologian. "Aquinas believed that the existence of God is neither obvious nor unprovable. In the Summa Theologica, he considered in great detail five reasons for the existence of God. These are widely known as the quinque viae, or the "Five Ways." Concerning the nature of God, Aquinas felt the best approach, commonly called the via negativa, is to consider what God is not. This led him to propose five statements about the divine qualities: God is simple, without composition of parts, such as body and soul, or matter and form.[62] God is perfect, lacking nothing. That is, God is distinguished from other beings on account of God's complete actuality.[63] God is infinite. That is, God is not finite in the ways that created beings are physically, intellectually, and emotionally limited. This infinity is to be distinguished from infinity of size and infinity of number.[64] God is immutable, incapable of change on the levels of God's essence and character.[65] God is one, without diversification within God's self. The unity of God is such that God's essence is the same as God's existence. In Aquinas's words, "in itself the proposition 'God exists' is necessarily true, for in it subject and predicate are the same."[66]"
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Theokhoth

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#97 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]No omnipotence means unlimited power...

Gambler_3

God can't make a four-sided triangle without changing what the triangle is, eliminating the purpose in the first place. Omnipotence is the ability to do anything logically possible. Could God make a triangular planet? Sure. Could God make a triangular planet with five sides and no corners? No.

What is a triangle?

A concept in which three geometric angles are joined together to create an unbreaking chain with three distinguishable sides and three corners. Note the word "concept." If we see a building or toy in the shape of a triangle, we see three sides and three corners. If we destroy that building or toy, the concept of a triangle still remains. If we destroy every physical triangle in the universe, the concept of a triangle will still remain. If we destroy the concept of a triangle (impossible), triangles would cease to exist.
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FFCYAN

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#98 FFCYAN
Member since 2005 • 4969 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]They would get the same energy if the baffalo died immediately, the suffering has absolutely no purpose and just shows the "fail design" of this universe...

Gambler_3

Pain is our bodies' way of telling us something is wrong. Without pain, we would have to walk carefully throughout our lives, constantly checking to make sure we haven't been stabbed. Surprise: suffering has a purpose, and I'm damn glad for it.

Why not end pain and misery when it has clearly lost it's purpose and only become a torture?

Theokhoth already stated pain has it's purpose. I don't know many people that live their lives feeling mostly torture as you seem to think. Life is a series of moments pain and happiness and it's through those moments when we know what each feeling truly means. If you take a look around, most of life as we know revolves around balances. There is no happiness without pain. Otherwise, happiness has no meaning.

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Gambler_3

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#99 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts

Because if we're unbreakable then how will we die?

To control the populations of their prey. There is an ecological system in place: predators eat prey; less predators, prey overpopulates, eats too many plants and harms the ecosystem.

You're still using the word "purpose" as though it means anything at all.

That He knows how to design a pretty efficient system, considering how long we've been around.

Theokhoth

1. Just like how I turn off my PC without breaking it apart. It's called intelligent design lol.

2. They dont have to be so brutal to do that sorry.

3. And?

4. Sure humans are designed well but it's definitely not the work of someone who is all-wise with perfect knowledge. Look at your monthly cosmetic and medical bill, may show you how well designed you really are...

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FFCYAN

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#100 FFCYAN
Member since 2005 • 4969 Posts

I would also note that this thread violates the revised rules for posting a religious topic.

"We expect all such threads to be opened in a civil manner promoting and accepting discussion on all sides of the issue. We appreciate those who take extra steps to encourage open, respectful, and inclusive discussions. If you're here to tell everyone you're right and they're all wrong and / or that there is no disputing that such threads will be closed."