This is why no one should follow Jesus

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hydralisk86

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#51 hydralisk86
Member since 2006 • 8847 Posts

[QUOTE="syorks1"]Wow TC, u honestly have no idea what your talking about. And all of your arguments are all opinion based and completely illogical. Deity_Slapper

This means nothing coming from a person who believes in fantasy. Please...gimme a break. Opinion based? Illogical? What is religion?

Then I ask you to prove that Jesus died.
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syorks1

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#52 syorks1
Member since 2007 • 824 Posts

[QUOTE="syorks1"]Wow TC, u honestly have no idea what your talking about. And all of your arguments are all opinion based and completely illogical. Deity_Slapper

This means nothing coming from a person who believes in fantasy. Please...gimme a break. Opinion based? Illogical? What is religion?

Fine give me some true evidence that Jesus is illogical or never existed or wasn't the Son of God.

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the1stfandb

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#53 the1stfandb
Member since 2007 • 2397 Posts

If ppl beleive that Jesus is God in human form. Then whats the point to this topic?

"Its like throw out part your beleifs for now and focus on this only." :?

This was referring to the disclaimer.

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Dracargen

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#54 Dracargen
Member since 2007 • 7928 Posts

I'm not trying to de-convert anyone.

Deity_Slapper

This is why no one should follow JesusDeity_Slapper

Wow.

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MFaraz_Hayat

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#55 MFaraz_Hayat
Member since 2006 • 1794 Posts

Though I am not a Christian, but I think that somewhere in the Bible Jesus (P.B.U.H.) does say that he delivers message of God. Even if he didnot say that, Bible is considered to be word of God by Christians. If this is so, then the teachings of Jesus were what God wanted him to tell people. So, experience of Jesus is now not of value. He is delivering God's word and commands and surely the Creator need not experience to determine what is best for the creation.

Common sense.......................................................

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silence790

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#56 silence790
Member since 2008 • 1111 Posts
I'm not a follower of Christ for my own personal reasons.
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FB3

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#57 FB3
Member since 2008 • 403 Posts

Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)xSIZEMATTER

They all think they can just rant in a thread and automatically convert people, hehe. Though I'm with you.

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tony2077ca

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#58 tony2077ca
Member since 2005 • 5242 Posts
there is no god get use to it
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the1stfandb

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#59 the1stfandb
Member since 2007 • 2397 Posts

there is no god get use to ittony2077ca

"We killed him"

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tony2077ca

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#60 tony2077ca
Member since 2005 • 5242 Posts

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"]there is no god get use to itthe1stfandb

"We killed him"

i have no proof that hes there so i assume hes not

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big_boss4life

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#61 big_boss4life
Member since 2006 • 2633 Posts

Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)xSIZEMATTER

Agree, i think people should read the bible more...

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GUNpoint_

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#62 GUNpoint_
Member since 2008 • 1964 Posts
some unknown guy on the internet isn't going to change the face of religion by telling others not to follow Jesus. fail.
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Hedgie931

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#63 Hedgie931
Member since 2006 • 285 Posts

some unknown guy on the internet isn't going to change the face of religion by telling others not to follow Jesus. fail.GUNpoint_

^ This

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ATOMIC_TOAST

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#64 ATOMIC_TOAST
Member since 2005 • 536 Posts

This is why no one should follow Jesus

DISCLAIMER: This was written using the idea that Jesus is the son of "god", and not "god" in human form.

Anyone with common sense knows that the best teachers/leaders are people who have personally experienced the lessons they are attempting to teach everyone else.

This experience obviously comes from being flawed, making mistakes, and learning from the mistakes. Making mistakes is how we acquire the ability to discern between right and wrong. It's how learn about our own abilities and their limitations, and just how we grow and evolve as people. It's through making mistakes, and facing adversity, that we build our character, and develop our identity.

This is what makes me wonder why so many people would believe in Jesus' teachings and any words he spoke. He was supposedly the only perfect person, and made no mistakes. If that's so, than what would his teachings be worth? What value could his words hold? If he never made a mistake, then he never had any experiences that taught him anything, that in turn, he could share with others.

Plus, I don't even know how anyone would feel connected to someone who is perfect. How could we relate? It's impossible. I think I'd rather hear a person speak whom has had lots of experience, than someone who was just basically born a robot. Robots can't relate to humanity. What could a robot teach humanity? Only an experienced human could have anything to share with his fellow humans about humanity, morals, and life in general.

Would you really listen to anyone who claimed to be the only son of an unproven god anyway? Someone today, making the same claims that Jesus made back then, would instantly be understood to be mentally ill. So why does anyone believe that Jesus was not? Is it because we got used to it, and don't want to change what we've gotten used to, and designed our entire lives around? Is it because we only have so much room for lunacy in our society, that we grandfathered Jesus in, while blocking out any new self-proclaimed messiahs?

Bottom line is, a perfect person isn't someone you would go to for advice, or anything else, because they wouldn't know what to say, from lack of their own experience with GROWING; living and learning, trials and tribulations, character building exercises, or personal soul searching. A perfect person is of no use to a flawed person, as a flawed person couldn't relate to someone unlike himself in matters of the soul, nor would he share anything in common with him, in relation to life experiences. A perfect person roaming the earth for the sole purpose of "saving" the non-perfect people, is pointless. And actually, it's quite ridiculous.

Deity_Slapper

Good question. Difficult to answer in a short way. My best attempt at a short answer would first be to ask you to think about where you got the idea that Jesus was a 'good teacher of morals'? A lot of people say that when they want to pay lip service to him but want to avoid the fact that he claimed to be God in the flesh. If you are objecting to the idea that Jesus was just a 'good moral teacher' then I think you are right to do so. That would certainly ignore some outrageous things he claimed (were he just a moral teacher). Its true that that is not primarily why he came. But you should also be aware that you are rejecting a misconception about him (that he is just a good moral teacher), and not rejecting who he actually is.

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tsduv21

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#65 tsduv21
Member since 2007 • 2942 Posts
Well, supposedly since his the son of God, he follows God. Sorf of like a messenger I guess, but anyway I'm not a believer.
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Deity_Slapper

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#66 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="syorks1"]Wow TC, u honestly have no idea what your talking about. And all of your arguments are all opinion based and completely illogical. syorks1

This means nothing coming from a person who believes in fantasy. Please...gimme a break. Opinion based? Illogical? What is religion?

Fine give me some true evidence that Jesus is illogical or never existed or wasn't the Son of God.

Lack of evidence speaks loudly. And that's the best I got, and it's all I need, really. Again, I'm floored by people who can't prove what they believe, yet ask their opposition for proof of the opposite. Why don't you offer some proof first? If you did that, you wouldn't even have any opposition! It would shut us all up! Get your proof and throw it in our faces, instead of asking us to give proof against whatever resides in your imagination. How could we disprove what's in your mind? Go ahead, make all atheists bow down and accept your god as their own.

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LJS9502_basic

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#67 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180152 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

I'm not trying to de-convert anyone.

Dracargen

This is why no one should follow JesusDeity_Slapper

Wow.

Ah irony. Where would we be without it.
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Deity_Slapper

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#68 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

I'm not trying to de-convert anyone.

Dracargen

This is why no one should follow JesusDeity_Slapper

Wow.

That doesn't mean I'm trying to deconvert anyone. :lol:

It's a title for a thread which contains my view on the subject. I FEEL this is one of many reasons why people shouldn't follow. Only speaking my mind. Not trying to change yours. I wanted to generate discussion, and it looks like I've done that.

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Deity_Slapper

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#69 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

I'm not trying to de-convert anyone.

LJS9502_basic

This is why no one should follow JesusDeity_Slapper

Wow.

Ah irony. Where would we be without it.

Yeah really, I agree LJ. If it wasn't for a guy (you) who immerses himself in irony daily, I wouldn't have as much entertainment in my life.

It's ironic that you're referring to me in that way, when in the other thread we were in, you displayed a classic example of irony which I pointed out. You can go check if you missed it.

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LJS9502_basic

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#70 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180152 Posts

Yeah really, I agree LJ. If it wasn't for a guy (you) who immerses himself in irony daily, I wouldn't have as much entertainment in my life.

It's ironic that you're referring to me in that way, when in the other thread we were in, you displayed a classic example of irony which I pointed out. You can go check if you missed it.

Deity_Slapper
Nah....it matters not to me. You do pay attention to me though. :D
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Deity_Slapper

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#71 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

Yeah really, I agree LJ. If it wasn't for a guy (you) who immerses himself in irony daily, I wouldn't have as much entertainment in my life.

It's ironic that you're referring to me in that way, when in the other thread we were in, you displayed a classic example of irony which I pointed out. You can go check if you missed it.

LJS9502_basic

Nah....it matters not to me. You do pay attention to me though. :D

?

I pay attention, period.

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mindstorm

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#72 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

Jesus was indeed perfect but he was no robot. He is what we should have been. He is the model we should live by simply for that reason.

Btw, you act as if Jesus does not know what we experience in life but he faced temptation we could never handle, dealt with life experiences that would hurt any person mentally and physically (being betrayed by his friends and killed just being two examples).

Also... with Jesus being God in the flesh, I'm pretty sure he knows more about us then we know about ourselves.

I don't know about you but he seems to be a great person to follow...

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astor47

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#73 astor47
Member since 2005 • 849 Posts
I don't believe in God, but your claims don't make sense.
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KrisG7

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#74 KrisG7
Member since 2005 • 2430 Posts

Beliefs in all this fairy tale nonsense is for the weak minded, people who need something to help them continue going through life. In reality, and I am sure you will discover... There is nothing.

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LJS9502_basic

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#75 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180152 Posts

This is why no one should follow Jesus

DISCLAIMER: This was written using the idea that Jesus is the son of "god", and not "god" in human form.

But He was both the Son and God.

Anyone with common sense knows that the best teachers/leaders are people who have personally experienced the lessons they are attempting to teach everyone else.

Not necessarily. For instance history. No one exists that has experienced it...but that doesn't mean it can't be taught.

This experience obviously comes from being flawed, making mistakes, and learning from the mistakes. Making mistakes is how we acquire the ability to discern between right and wrong. It's how learn about our own abilities and their limitations, and just how we grow and evolve as people. It's through making mistakes, and facing adversity, that we build our character, and develop our identity.

Humans....yes. Nonetheless, for the sake of this argument.....where is the point? Jesus did live as a human.

This is what makes me wonder why so many people would believe in Jesus' teachings and any words he spoke. He was supposedly the only perfect person, and made no mistakes. If that's so, than what would his teachings be worth? What value could his words hold? If he never made a mistake, then he never had any experiences that taught him anything, that in turn, he could share with others.

Which of His teachings required Him to make a mistake. This paragraph is vague.

Plus, I don't even know how anyone would feel connected to someone who is perfect. How could we relate? It's impossible. I think I'd rather hear a person speak whom has had lots of experience, than someone who was just basically born a robot. Robots can't relate to humanity. What could a robot teach humanity? Only an experienced human could have anything to share with his fellow humans about humanity, morals, and life in general.

Robots are not human. Bad analogy.

Would you really listen to anyone who claimed to be the only son of an unproven god anyway? Someone today, making the same claims that Jesus made back then, would instantly be understood to be mentally ill. So why does anyone believe that Jesus was not? Is it because we got used to it, and don't want to change what we've gotten used to, and designed our entire lives around? Is it because we only have so much room for lunacy in our society, that we grandfathered Jesus in, while blocking out any new self-proclaimed messiahs?

Which claim did Jesus make? Again vague.

Bottom line is, a perfect person isn't someone you would go to for advice, or anything else, because they wouldn't know what to say, from lack of their own experience with GROWING; living and learning, trials and tribulations, character building exercises, or personal soul searching. A perfect person is of no use to a flawed person, as a flawed person couldn't relate to someone unlike himself in matters of the soul, nor would he share anything in common with him, in relation to life experiences. A perfect person roaming the earth for the sole purpose of "saving" the non-perfect people, is pointless. And actually, it's quite ridiculous.

You are confusing the natural with the supernatural. That is not a good argument to make in this case.

Deity_Slapper

Just don't buy the thesis.....sorry.

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Deity_Slapper

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#76 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

This is why no one should follow Jesus

DISCLAIMER: This was written using the idea that Jesus is the son of "god", and not "god" in human form.

But He was both the Son and God.

Not all sects of christianity feel the same way that you do.

Anyone with common sense knows that the best teachers/leaders are people who have personally experienced the lessons they are attempting to teach everyone else.

Not necessarily. For instance history. No one exists that has experienced it...but that doesn't mean it can't be taught.

You're not referring to anybody in particular though. And the best people to teach history would be those who were there. What we learn in school and such, couldn't possibly come even close to what an actual eyewitness account could provide. Not that any remain in most cases, but my point still stands. The best teachers are those who have the experience.

This experience obviously comes from being flawed, making mistakes, and learning from the mistakes. Making mistakes is how we acquire the ability to discern between right and wrong. It's how learn about our own abilities and their limitations, and just how we grow and evolve as people. It's through making mistakes, and facing adversity, that we build our character, and develop our identity.

Humans....yes. Nonetheless, for the sake of this argument.....where is the point? Jesus did live as a human.

Jesus lived as a human. (Supposedly.) But he was a perfect human. (Supposedly.) He never made any mistakes to learn any life lessons from. Without that, what credibility could his teachings have when he tries to go and relate to people about their problems when he hasn't been through the same? That's the point.

This is what makes me wonder why so many people would believe in Jesus' teachings and any words he spoke. He was supposedly the only perfect person, and made no mistakes. If that's so, than what would his teachings be worth? What value could his words hold? If he never made a mistake, then he never had any experiences that taught him anything, that in turn, he could share with others.

Which of His teachings required Him to make a mistake. This paragraph is vague.

See the last answer.

Plus, I don't even know how anyone would feel connected to someone who is perfect. How could we relate? It's impossible. I think I'd rather hear a person speak whom has had lots of experience, than someone who was just basically born a robot. Robots can't relate to humanity. What could a robot teach humanity? Only an experienced human could have anything to share with his fellow humans about humanity, morals, and life in general.

Robots are not human. Bad analogy.

A perfect person is akin to a robot in the way that if you knew a perfect person, their decisions and actions would become easily predictable. And I didn't even mean an actual robot anyway. It's slang, kind of like when a person is referred to as a "zombie", if they're on dope, or haven't slept for days. Humans aren't zombies, but there is a point to be understood there.

Would you really listen to anyone who claimed to be the only son of an unproven god anyway? Someone today, making the same claims that Jesus made back then, would instantly be understood to be mentally ill. So why does anyone believe that Jesus was not? Is it because we got used to it, and don't want to change what we've gotten used to, and designed our entire lives around? Is it because we only have so much room for lunacy in our society, that we grandfathered Jesus in, while blocking out any new self-proclaimed messiahs?

Which claim did Jesus make? Again vague.

Well, here I was referring to the claims that Jesus made about being the son of god, the only path to god and his kingdom, etc. Those types of claims. The same claims that if people were to make nowadays, would get them thrown into the proverbial loonie bin, after being outcasted by a society that won't tolerate such nonsense.

Bottom line is, a perfect person isn't someone you would go to for advice, or anything else, because they wouldn't know what to say, from lack of their own experience with GROWING; living and learning, trials and tribulations, character building exercises, or personal soul searching. A perfect person is of no use to a flawed person, as a flawed person couldn't relate to someone unlike himself in matters of the soul, nor would he share anything in common with him, in relation to life experiences. A perfect person roaming the earth for the sole purpose of "saving" the non-perfect people, is pointless. And actually, it's quite ridiculous.

You are confusing the natural with the supernatural. That is not a good argument to make in this case.

I just don't think you understand my point, or perhaps I didn't explain it very well. That's fine, as I'm willing to let this one go now anyway. I'll have more in the future. But can you prove the supernatural even exists? If not, why assume that it's there?

LJS9502_basic

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Deity_Slapper

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#77 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

Btw, you act as if Jesus does not know what we experience in life but he faced temptation we could never handle, dealt with life experiences that would hurt any person mentally and physically (being betrayed by his friends and killed just being two examples).

mindstorm

What was the temptaion he faced that we couldn't? I don't think they had the really good smack back then.

Plus, I've been betrayed...by my own family, and that's worse than being betrayed by your friends. I'm still ok.

His death was nothing, because death is the end. And if he really went to heaven afterwards, and he knew he was going to go there all along, it wouldn't be such a pressing ordeal.

In reality, and I am sure you will discover... There is nothing.KrisG7

I know. I realized this already. Everything is pointless. We're just here wandering around, and our egos convince us that we're somehow special in the grand scope of things, when we are not.

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LJS9502_basic

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#78 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180152 Posts

Not all sects of religion feel the same way that you do.

Specifically which Christian sect doesn't believe Jesus was God as well as the Son.

You're not referring to anybody in particular though. And the best people to teach history would be those who were there. What we learn in school and such, couldn't possibly come even close to what an actual eyewitness account could provide. Not that any remain in most cases, but my point still stands. The best teachers are those who have the experience.

Doesn't have to be particular...my point stands. Likewise science teachers haven't all been in the lab finding out how science works. English Lit teachers haven't written Shakespeare. So you have history teachers that lived through the Revolution, Civil Wars etc. Um...no.

Jesus lived as a human. (Supposedly.) But he was a perfect human. (Supposedly.) He never made any mistakes to learn any life lessons from. Without that, what credibility could his teachings have when he tries to go and relate to people about their problems when he hasn't been through the same? That's the point.

You can also learn from the mistakes of others...and again....you are confusing humanity with supernatural. The supernatural does not necessarily have to experience first hand to understand. Flawed analogy.

See the last answer.

Dodging the question....that isn't answered.

A perfect person is akin to a robot in the way that if you knew a perfect person, their decisions and actions would become easily predictable. And I didn't even mean an actual robot anyway. It's slang, kind of like when a person is referred to as a "zombie", if they're on dope, or haven't slept for days. Humans aren't zombies, but there is a point to be understood there.

No...they are not.
The definition of perfect is clearly NOT the same as the definition of robot.

Well, here I was referring to the claims that Jesus made about being the son of god, the only path to god and his kingdom, etc. Those types of claims. The same claims that if people were to make nowadays, would get them thrown into the proverbial loonie bin, after being outcasted by a society that won't tolerate such nonsense.

Which come from?

I just don't think you understand my point, or perhaps I didn't explain it very well. That's fine, as I'm willing to let this one go now anyway. I'll have more in the future. But can you prove the supernatural even exists? If not, why assume that it's there?

I understand your points...they are not valid however. I don't have to prove the supernatural exists. Again...something you fail to pick up when discussing with me is I have never made that claim. It cannot be proven in the positive or the negative. What I personally believe is not the scope of my discussion with you. It is a fact, however, that a supernatural entity would not be bound by the laws of the natural. Hence, the differentiation in the name.

Deity_Slapper

Okay then...still find flaws in your logic.

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simonromano2007

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#79 simonromano2007
Member since 2007 • 657 Posts
thats why im jewish
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Kuhu

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#80 Kuhu
Member since 2004 • 2845 Posts
I agree with you on some things, although the way you worded it was a bit.. awkward.
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MM87

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#81 MM87
Member since 2008 • 1254 Posts
Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)xSIZEMATTER
I hate when people say that. How exactly has God "changed your life." What has he done? Are you sure it's not just you doing the change and in your head you think God has done it?
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deactivated-60f8966fb59f5

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#82 deactivated-60f8966fb59f5
Member since 2008 • 1719 Posts
You are forgetting that if Jesus was perfect, he was also omnipotent. Are you telling us that an omnipotent being cannot find the omnipotence to relate to humans? And if Jesus was not the son of God, but a man, then how exactly does it not make sense that he could be a great teacher? On a side note, even if a modern self-proclaimed messiah was by some believed to be mentally ill or a con artist, does that mean that nobody would follow them?
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Deity_Slapper

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#83 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

I agree with you on some things, although the way you worded it was a bit.. awkward.Kuhu

Well, I'm an awkward person.

LJ, I'll respond to your post tomorrow, I'm logging off now.

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cashgee

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#84 cashgee
Member since 2007 • 192 Posts
he can do miracles, others can't.
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#85 Kuhu
Member since 2004 • 2845 Posts

[QUOTE="Kuhu"]I agree with you on some things, although the way you worded it was a bit.. awkward.Deity_Slapper

Well, I'm an awkward person.

LJ, I'll respond to your post tomorrow, I'm logging off now.

This is also true.

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Revinh

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#86 Revinh
Member since 2005 • 1957 Posts
It only makes sense that someone perfect can save the nonperfect. Does it makes sense for a nonperfect person leading the nonperfect (blind leading the blind)?
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deactivated-60f8966fb59f5

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#87 deactivated-60f8966fb59f5
Member since 2008 • 1719 Posts
It only makes sense that someone perfect can save the nonperfect. Does it makes sense for a nonperfect person leading the nonperfect (blind leading the blind)?Revinh
If imperfect means the same thing as blind... yet two blind men are better at finding their way around than one.
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Makrid

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#88 Makrid
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
Really? I mean come on, do you honestly think your post makes sense. It's so full of fallacies that no matter what you were trying to do it's not worth discussing. Maybe this time think about what you are saying and then well talk. Some education might help a bit I don't know, I just cant see how you thought you were convincing anyone. You obviously don't believe in Christ but that is besides the point. You need to consider how you want to prove something and reason with us all. Coming on a forum and saying no one should follow Jesus(your topic name) because he has no experience, I question your knowledge. How do you know he had no experience. It is conceivable that he did either before this life or during, you dont know. How do you know I havent seen him or talked to him, you don't know that either! As far as me proving anything to you thats not what you asked. All in all you have nothing and need to completely revise your statements. It's okay to say that you don't beleive in him and ask for a discussion but there needs to be some sound logic and reason involved. No More Fallacies! Again I am not arguing for or against I am merely saying that it's impossible to have any valid claim against your statements becuase of all the fallacies.
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Deity_Slapper

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#90 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

Not all sects of christianity feel the same way that you do. LJS9502_basic

Specifically which Christian sect doesn't believe Jesus was God as well as the Son.


I don't know all of them, but one for sure is the Mormons. They believe in The Heavenly Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost. All seperate entities. I know there's others, but I don't know everything.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"] You're not referring to anybody in particular though. And the best people to teach history would be those who were there. What we learn in school and such, couldn't possibly come even close to what an actual eyewitness account could provide. Not that any remain in most cases, but my point still stands. The best teachers are those who have the experience. LJS9502_basic

Doesn't have to be particular...my point stands. Likewise science teachers haven't all been in the lab finding out how science works. English Lit teachers haven't written Shakespeare. So you have history teachers that lived through the Revolution, Civil Wars etc. Um...no.

Uhh, what? What you just said was kinda my point. We could never learn from these teachers (in school) better than if we were learning from someone with an eyewitness account. And like I said, it's not possible these days to learn the history we are taught from someone who was at the scene. The only teachers we have are people who learned as much as they could about the subject before spreading it to us. And although that's all we have now, there's no denying an eyewitness account would be more accurate, if it was possible to have one.

So the point is: As far as who would be the best teacher is concerned, someone with experience in whatever subject they are trying to teach someone else would be better than Jesus teaching them, who has no experience to speak from (because of his inability to make mistakes, and thus never learn and grow).

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"] Jesus lived as a human. (Supposedly.) But he was a perfect human. (Supposedly.) He never made any mistakes to learn any life lessons from. Without that, what credibility could his teachings have when he tries to go and relate to people about their problems when he hasn't been through the same? That's the point. LJS9502_basic

You can also learn from the mistakes of others...and again....you are confusing humanity with supernatural. The supernatural does not necessarily have to experience first hand to understand. Flawed analogy.

Supernatural? You just said Jesus lived as a human being. And you even call him Jesus, and not "god", as if they are seperate. If Jesus and god are the same, why not do away with one of the names? Just call him god all the time. You must be referring to a human-only (non-supernatural) version of "god", if you seperate them by different names (identities), or they actually ARE 2 different beings.

You confuse me. :?

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"] A perfect person is akin to a robot in the way that if you knew a perfect person, their decisions and actions would become easily predictable. And I didn't even mean an actual robot anyway. It's slang, kind of like when a person is referred to as a "zombie", if they're on dope, or haven't slept for days. Humans aren't zombies, but there is a point to be understood there. LJS9502_basic

No...they are not.
The definition of perfect is clearly NOT the same as the definition of robot.

I just said it was meant in a slang way. Man, do you even read the posts? Check again. See how I used "zombie" as an example? Not saying Jesus was a zombie now, just in the same vein that zombie is meant to describe a human who is in a zoned-out state even though they aren't actually a zombie, I refer to Jesus as a robot, not as an actual machine, but as a human who has an easy-to-predict nature (which he would have, if he was "perfect"), almost as if he were running on a program of some sort, even though he actually isn't. A robotic like human.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"] Well, here I was referring to the claims that Jesus made about being the son of god, the only path to god and his kingdom, etc. Those types of claims. The same claims that if people were to make nowadays, would get them thrown into the proverbial loonie bin, after being outcasted by a society that won't tolerate such nonsense. LJS9502_basic

Which come from?

What?

I don't have to prove the supernatural exists. LJS9502_basic

You don't HAVE to, but it would lend some credibility to your arguement. You know, if you could actually prove the things that you use as arguements, instead of just saying it anyway, and hoping your opponent won't challenge you...

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Deity_Slapper

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#91 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

How do you know I havent seen him or talked to him, you don't know that either!Makrid

Because you would say something. And I mean REALLY say something. Not just assuming that god spoke to you when you prayed like most people do.

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#92 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Btw, you act as if Jesus does not know what we experience in life but he faced temptation we could never handle, dealt with life experiences that would hurt any person mentally and physically (being betrayed by his friends and killed just being two examples).

Deity_Slapper

What was the temptaion he faced that we couldn't? I don't think they had the really good smack back then.

Plus, I've been betrayed...by my own family, and that's worse than being betrayed by your friends. I'm still ok.

His death was nothing, because death is the end. And if he really went to heaven afterwards, and he knew he was going to go there all along, it wouldn't be such a pressing ordeal.

In reality, and I am sure you will discover... There is nothing.KrisG7

I know. I realized this already. Everything is pointless. We're just here wandering around, and our egos convince us that we're somehow special in the grand scope of things, when we are not.

Jesus was tempted by Satan to jump from the temple to show that he was God so that they'd bow down and worship him. That's just one of the temptations he had which I'd imagine is harder to resist than any temptation we face.

Yes but his betrayal resulted in his death... You say you are still okay, he died as a result.

Jesus didn't want to die. The night before his death he prayed to God "If it be your will, take this cup from me." Jesus may or may not have feared death but he was one with God unlike any of us have been due to our sin. When Jesus died on the cross Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus no longer felt the presence of God. That is what true death is... and he experienced it. That is what he felt. Jesus did not want that to happen but due to his love for us, he let it happen.

Jesus went through more than any of us could ever imagine or handle.

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LJS9502_basic

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#93 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180152 Posts


I don't know all of them, but one for sure is the Mormons. They believe in The Heavenly Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost. All seperate entities. I know there's others, but I don't know everything.

Whatever text you are using doesn't show up when I hit quote. Use the default please. Anyway, in regard to Mormons...they don't believe in the trinity....they do believe Jesus was a "Godhead"...research first. So that point is moot.

Uhh, what? What you just said was kinda my point. We could never learn from these teachers (in school) better than if we were learning from someone with an eyewitness account. And like I said, it's not possible these days to learn the history we are taught from someone who was at the scene. The only teachers we have are people who learned as much as they could about the subject before spreading it to us. And although that's all we have now, there's no denying an eyewitness account would be more accurate, if it was possible to have one.

Again...you learn from teachers....not those that actually did. Few would be educated in this case. Which teacher that you had was an eyewitness to how the bubonic plauge hit Europe? That point is moot. You're now trying to force that point because it clearly is illogical and without it your argument is destroyed.

So the point is: As far as who would be the best teacher is concerned, someone with experience in whatever subject they are trying to teach someone else would be better than Jesus teaching them, who has no experience to speak from (because of his inability to make mistakes, and thus never learn and grow).

As a divine being...He would indeed. Your thinking is limited and doesn't include possibilities NOT open to mankind.

Supernatural? You just said Jesus lived as a human being. And you even call him Jesus, and not "god", as if they are seperate. If Jesus and god are the same, why not do away with one of the names? Just call him god all the time. You must be referring to a human-only (non-supernatural) version of "god", if you seperate them by different names (identities), or they actually ARE 2 different beings.

You confuse me. :?

You are once again not understanding the fundamentals of the beliefs. One can't have a discussion unless one first understands the subject.:?

I just said it was meant in a slang way. Man, do you even read the posts? Check again. See how I used "zombie" as an example? Not saying Jesus was a zombie now, just in the same vein that zombie is meant to describe a human who is in a zoned-out state even though they aren't actually a zombie, I refer to Jesus as a robot, not as an actual machine, but as a human who has an easy-to-predict nature (which he would have, if he was "perfect"), almost as if he were running on a program of some sort, even though he actually isn't. A robotic like human.

Ah attack. Yes I read your posts and your main statement was that a perfect being is a robot. And as I stated the definitions are clearly against this line of reasoning. Please say what you mean then and don't use "slang" to muddy the idea you are trying to get across. Care to try again?

What?

I want quotes where you got those statements from.

You don't HAVE to, but it would lend some credibility to your arguement. You know, if you could actually prove the things that you use as arguements, instead of just saying it anyway, and hoping your opponent won't challenge y

Debating 101. You have a topic....in this case YOUR ORIGINAL POST...and it gets discussed. I don't have to respond to anything but THIS TOPIC. By your attempts to change the topic shows that your position has no merit.

Deity_Slapper

Another circular argument. I've now had to reiterate the same points several times. Either respond to what I've pointed out or let this die.

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f15srcool

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#94 f15srcool
Member since 2005 • 2294 Posts

Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)xSIZEMATTER

Religion changed my life for the worse, and now I'm an atheist and happier. Whatever floats your boat...

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usaaaaaa

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#95 usaaaaaa
Member since 2008 • 1071 Posts

[QUOTE="xSIZEMATTER"]Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)MM87
I hate when people say that. How exactly has God "changed your life." What has he done? Are you sure it's not just you doing the change and in your head you think God has done it?

It is him doing the change, but he's under the illusion that a lunatic named Jesus who has been dead for 2000 years is somehow healing him and changing his life.

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#96 xscrapzx
Member since 2007 • 6636 Posts
All I have to say is there was something to this guy because frankly if all is true which I believe it is, who in the hell would go through all that pain that he did just to prove a point? There was a reason why people followed him, there was a reason he did the things he did. I don't think anyone would of went out of his way like he did knowing that he would of died doing it. You can sit and argue if he was the son of god or god in human form, but all I know is he was probably the closest to knowing why we existed, why we were here and where we will go afterwards and we killed him. Pretty sad if you ask me.
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123625

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#97 123625
Member since 2006 • 9035 Posts
I'll still follow him. Not gonna listen to some ones opinion on the internet anyway.
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trav_have

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#98 trav_have
Member since 2004 • 5712 Posts

Jesus saves...

THEN ZETTERBERG TAPS IN THE REBOUND!

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LJS9502_basic

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#99 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180152 Posts

[QUOTE="MM87"][QUOTE="xSIZEMATTER"]Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)usaaaaaa

I hate when people say that. How exactly has God "changed your life." What has he done? Are you sure it's not just you doing the change and in your head you think God has done it?

It is him doing the change, but he's under the illusion that a lunatic named Jesus who has been dead for 2000 years is somehow healing him and changing his life.

Someone that preaches love and forgiveness is a lunatic? I'd hate to hear what ideology you espouse.
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usaaaaaa

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#100 usaaaaaa
Member since 2008 • 1071 Posts
[QUOTE="usaaaaaa"]

[QUOTE="MM87"][QUOTE="xSIZEMATTER"]Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)LJS9502_basic

I hate when people say that. How exactly has God "changed your life." What has he done? Are you sure it's not just you doing the change and in your head you think God has done it?

It is him doing the change, but he's under the illusion that a lunatic named Jesus who has been dead for 2000 years is somehow healing him and changing his life.

Someone that preaches love and forgiveness is a lunatic? I'd hate to hear what ideology you espouse.

Claiming you're the son of God and actually believing so is pretty crazy.