This is why no one should follow Jesus

Claiming you're the son of God and actually believing so is pretty crazy.

usaaaaaa

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="usaaaaaa"]

[QUOTE="MM87"][QUOTE="xSIZEMATTER"]Hmm, well I'll still keep following him. Some guy on a Internet forum isn't going to make me stop :| Hes changed my life like no one else. :)usaaaaaa

It is him doing the change, but he's under the illusion that a lunatic named Jesus who has been dead for 2000 years is somehow healing him and changing his life.

Claiming you're the son of God and actually believing so is pretty crazy.

There you are! Still trolling religion, I see. Are you ever going to respond to my PM?:(

This is why no one should follow Jesus

DISCLAIMER: This was written using the idea that Jesus is the son of "god", and not "god" in human form.

Anyone with common sense knows that the best teachers/leaders are people who have personally experienced the lessons they are attempting to teach everyone else.

This experience obviously comes from being flawed, making mistakes, and learning from the mistakes. Making mistakes is how we acquire the ability to discern between right and wrong. It's how learn about our own abilities and their limitations, and just how we grow and evolve as people. It's through making mistakes, and facing adversity, that we build our character, and develop our identity.

This is what makes me wonder why so many people would believe in Jesus' teachings and any words he spoke. He was supposedly the only perfect person, and made no mistakes. If that's so, than what would his teachings be worth? What value could his words hold? If he never made a mistake, then he never had any experiences that taught him anything, that in turn, he could share with others.

Plus, I don't even know how anyone would feel connected to someone who is perfect. How could we relate? It's impossible. I think I'd rather hear a person speak whom has had lots of experience, than someone who was just basically born a robot. Robots can't relate to humanity. What could a robot teach humanity? Only an experienced human could have anything to share with his fellow humans about humanity, morals, and life in general.

Would you really listen to anyone who claimed to be the only son of an unproven god anyway? Someone today, making the same claims that Jesus made back then, would instantly be understood to be mentally ill. So why does anyone believe that Jesus was not? Is it because we got used to it, and don't want to change what we've gotten used to, and designed our entire lives around? Is it because we only have so much room for lunacy in our society, that we grandfathered Jesus in, while blocking out any new self-proclaimed messiahs?

Bottom line is, a perfect person isn't someone you would go to for advice, or anything else, because they wouldn't know what to say, from lack of their own experience with GROWING; living and learning, trials and tribulations, character building exercises, or personal soul searching. A perfect person is of no use to a flawed person, as a flawed person couldn't relate to someone unlike himself in matters of the soul, nor would he share anything in common with him, in relation to life experiences. A perfect person roaming the earth for the sole purpose of "saving" the non-perfect people, is pointless. And actually, it's quite ridiculous.

Deity_Slapper

You have just completely gobsmacked me with that outlandish argument.

You clearly have no knowledge of Jesus Christ and his teachings so how can you possibly say that the teachings help no-one? They have helped more people than there are stars in the sky. Me included. And you can't dispute that because if you do then you're disputing every Christian on the planet.

Jesus is perfect because he is God, his human body however was no different to yours or mine. That is how he was able to die. But even if you dispute the fact that he was the son of God on Earth, he still helped everyone he could. Even (IF) as you say he was just an ordinary man, then he still helped more people around the world than anyone in history has ever done. So how can you say that a perfect person roaming the Earth is ridiculous? Someone who is not perfect would benefit from the experience of a perfect person helping them out, and that contradicts your whole argument that it would be pointless.

People saw Jesus die on the cross that day, they saw the curtain in the temple rip and they saw darkness cover the Earth. We haven't taken on the fact that Jesus was the Son of God, we have done the opposite. We don't see Jesus now so we don't believe what he did. But they could see him then, so they believed because of what they could see.

And don't tell me that you could possibly understand how an omnipotent being works because you couldn't. Even if you believe in Jesus it wouldn't mean you understood why things are as they are. We are merely human beings, but we do however have the intelligence to choose what is right. And I can tell you that if you follow what Jesus taught us, you will be doing what is considered (by any good citizen) the right thing to do. Because his teachings were not bad and they can help you in life a lot.

Deity_Slapper Wrote:

Because you would say something. And I mean REALLY say something. Not just assuming that god spoke to you when you prayed like most people do.

You missed the point, I am not saying or attempting to say that I have or have not. I am not saying what anyone should or shouldn't do. My point again, is that you cannot try and convince anyone by your fallacious arguments, because you are stating things as fact and as if you know that none of us on this forum or any person has seen or talked to him in recent years. Now if you want to go there too, I can tell you that just because someone has seen Christ that does not mean they are going to go tell everyone. As someone else mentioned you do not know the purposes of the omnipotent being or those he may or may not reveal himself to. Basically you need to look over what you started with, and realize that to philosophize about anything you cannot assume so much. Pick your words carefully next time.

Claiming you're the son of God and actually believing so is pretty crazy.

usaaaaaa

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

This is why no one should follow Jesus

DISCLAIMER: This was written using the idea that Jesus is the son of "god", and not "god" in human form.

Anyone with common sense knows that the best teachers/leaders are people who have personally experienced the lessons they are attempting to teach everyone else.

This experience obviously comes from being flawed, making mistakes, and learning from the mistakes. Making mistakes is how we acquire the ability to discern between right and wrong. It's how learn about our own abilities and their limitations, and just how we grow and evolve as people. It's through making mistakes, and facing adversity, that we build our character, and develop our identity.

This is what makes me wonder why so many people would believe in Jesus' teachings and any words he spoke. He was supposedly the only perfect person, and made no mistakes. If that's so, than what would his teachings be worth? What value could his words hold? If he never made a mistake, then he never had any experiences that taught him anything, that in turn, he could share with others.

Plus, I don't even know how anyone would feel connected to someone who is perfect. How could we relate? It's impossible. I think I'd rather hear a person speak whom has had lots of experience, than someone who was just basically born a robot. Robots can't relate to humanity. What could a robot teach humanity? Only an experienced human could have anything to share with his fellow humans about humanity, morals, and life in general.

Would you really listen to anyone who claimed to be the only son of an unproven god anyway? Someone today, making the same claims that Jesus made back then, would instantly be understood to be mentally ill. So why does anyone believe that Jesus was not? Is it because we got used to it, and don't want to change what we've gotten used to, and designed our entire lives around? Is it because we only have so much room for lunacy in our society, that we grandfathered Jesus in, while blocking out any new self-proclaimed messiahs?

Bottom line is, a perfect person isn't someone you would go to for advice, or anything else, because they wouldn't know what to say, from lack of their own experience with GROWING; living and learning, trials and tribulations, character building exercises, or personal soul searching. A perfect person is of no use to a flawed person, as a flawed person couldn't relate to someone unlike himself in matters of the soul, nor would he share anything in common with him, in relation to life experiences. A perfect person roaming the earth for the sole purpose of "saving" the non-perfect people, is pointless. And actually, it's quite ridiculous.

Lansdowne5

You have just completely gobsmacked me with that outlandish argument.

You clearly have no knowledge of Jesus Christ and his teachings so how can you possibly say that the teachings help no-one? They have helped more people than there are stars in the sky. Me included. And you can't dispute that because if you do then you're disputing every Christian on the planet.

Jesus is perfect because he is God, his human body however was no different to yours or mine. That is how he was able to die. But even if you dispute the fact that he was the son of God on Earth, he still helped everyone he could. Even (IF) as you say he was just an ordinary man, then he still helped more people around the world than anyone in history has ever done. So how can you say that a perfect person roaming the Earth is ridiculous? Someone who is not perfect would benefit from the experience of a perfect person helping them out, and that contradicts your whole argument that it would be pointless.

People saw Jesus die on the cross that day, they saw the curtain in the temple rip and they saw darkness cover the Earth. We haven't taken on the fact that Jesus was the Son of God, we have done the opposite. We don't see Jesus now so we don't believe what he did. But they could see him then, so they believed because of what they could see.

And don't tell me that you could possibly understand how an omnipotent being works because you couldn't. Even if you believe in Jesus it wouldn't mean you understood why things are as they are. We are merely human beings, but we do however have the intelligence to choose what is right. And I can tell you that if you follow what Jesus taught us, you will be doing what is considered (by any good citizen) the right thing to do. Because his teachings were not bad and they can help you in life a lot.

Certainly. He thinks with his very little knowledge on the subject and he can simply convert religious views like that. I figured it'd be something as convincing as this when I saw the thread title. Anyone who knows much of anything about Jesus can point out the many holes and inaccuracies in his argument.

Say what you want, but I still believe. I don't even see the point of this thread... What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to make people question their faith (if they have any)?

There is plenty of evidence that Jesus existed all over the place (just pick up some books on ancient history). He's also mentioned in several religious texts including both the Bible and the Koran.

Believe what you wan, but you won't affect anyone who has any faith of their own.

I'm done here.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

Whatever text you are using doesn't show up when I hit quote. Use the default please.

Something happened when I tried to seperate these colored posts into a quote chain. Everything was real dark grey and could barely be seen, so I had to change the entire post to white, so it would show up on the black bgackground of the forum. But yes, it wouldn't show up against the white background of the text box. Sorry, I don't know what happened. :?

Anyway, in regard to Mormons...they don't believe in the trinity....they do believe Jesus was a "Godhead"...research first. So that point is moot.

Dude, they believe there is a Heavenly Father, who had a son who is Jesus, and they have some homey named the Holy Ghost who hangs out with you whenever you need his assistance. 3 seperate dudes. Or ghosts. Or something...

Which teacher that you had was an eyewitness to how the bubonic plauge hit Europe? That point is moot. You're now trying to force that point because it clearly is illogical and without it your argument is destroyed.

Dude! That's what I'm saying! People from that era aren't alive to teach us, so the teaching we do get about it these days, is only second best. Because of it being generations ago. The teachers nowadays lack the actual first-hand experience with what they are trying to teach, just as Jesus lacked the experience with what he was trying to teach to people (because of his lack of first-hand experience with the particular trials and tribulations that the people he was trying to talk to went through).

As a divine being...He would indeed. Your thinking is limited and doesn't include possibilities NOT open to mankind.

But you said Jesus lived AS A MAN, so the only possibilities open to him, would only be the ones available to mankind, not a deity. I'm using your own words there, bro.

You are once again not understanding the fundamentals of the beliefs. One can't have a discussion unless one first understands the subject.:?

How about you explain what part I'm not understanding, if you know what it is? This is what people were talking about earler...you never explain! You just say, "you don't get this..." and then move on to the next post. Well what does that solve? If you know what it specifically is that I'm not understanding (and you seem to insinuate that you do know, by your choice of words), then why not tell me what it is? Wouldn't it help our conversation if both sides knew what to expect from the other? :?

I want quotes where you got those statements from.

I thought you'd have been alive long enough to know of these situations on your own. Don't tell me you've never heard about some dudes going around claiming they were Jesus. I remember the last time I saw it on the news was maybe less than 2 years ago, even. Maybe you could search google, or youtube, with "crazy guy thinks he's Jesus" in the search box? I'm sure you'll get something.

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I don't have to prove the supernatural exists.

You don't HAVE to, but it would lend some credibility to your arguement. You know, if you could actually prove the things that you use as arguements, instead of just saying it anyway, and hoping your opponent won't challenge you...

Debating 101. You have a topic....in this case YOUR ORIGINAL POST...and it gets discussed. I don't have to respond to anything but THIS TOPIC. By your attempts to change the topic shows that your position has no merit.

There are no rules to debating. What the hell is this? Don't use this crap you just made up as an excuse to dodge my point. You brought up that you don't have to prove the supernatural, and I merely stated that it would help your position if you did. Which it would. And you know it. But since you CAN'T prove it, you just go back to your tactic of saying I'm not debating "correctly", and how it's not worth your time. C'mon LJ...

LJS9502_basic

This thread is full of phail. UssjTrunks

Good thing you showed up to make it a little better. :question:

Dude, they believe there is a Heavenly Father, who had a son who is Jesus, and they have some homey named the Holy Ghost who hangs out with you whenever you need his assistance. 3 seperate dudes. Or ghosts. Or something...

Dude! That's what I'm saying! People from that era aren't alive to teach us, so the teaching we do get about it these days, is only second best. Because of it being generations ago. The teachers nowadays lack the actual first-hand experience with what they are trying to teach, just as Jesus lacked the experience with what he was trying to teach to people (because of his lack of first-hand experience with the particular trials and tribulations that the people he was trying to talk to went through).

But you said Jesus lived AS A MAN, so the only possibilities open to him, would only be the ones available to mankind, not a deity. I'm using your own words there, bro.

How about you explain what part I'm not understanding, if you know what it is? This is what people were talking about earler...you never explain! You just say, "you don't get this..." and then move on to the next post. Well what does that solve? If you know what it specifically is that I'm not understanding (and you seem to insinuate that you do know, by your choice of words), then why not tell me what it is? Wouldn't it help our conversation if both sides knew what to expect from the other? :?

I thought you'd have been alive long enough to know of these situations on your own. Don't tell me you've never heard about some dudes going around claiming they were Jesus. I remember the last time I saw it on the news was maybe less than 2 years ago, even. Maybe you could search google, or youtube, with "crazy guy thinks he's Jesus" in the search box? I'm sure you'll get something.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You don't HAVE to, but it would lend some credibility to your arguement. You know, if you could actually prove the things that you use as arguements, instead of just saying it anyway, and hoping your opponent won't challenge you...

There are no rules to debating. What the hell is this? Don't use this crap you just made up as an excuse to dodge my point. You brought up that you don't have to prove the supernatural, and I merely stated that it would help your position if you did. Which it would. And you know it. But since you CAN'T prove it, you just go back to your tactic of saying I'm not debating "correctly", and how it's not worth your time. C'mon LJ...

Deity_Slapper

Mormons believe in 3 Godheads.....which would make Jesus God as well. They don't believe in three persons in one. However, that is not what you initially said. You said they don't believe Jesus is a God. That is incorrect.

Faulty analogy since you have no way of knowing if someone from back in the day...ie history...can teach JUST because they lived the experience. Not everyone can translate experience into instruction. And with the fact that you can't prove it...this is pointless to argue.

My words are that He was both. Therefore, He wasn't simply a human going through life...not that I see why that matters anyway.

You are not understanding that a supernatural entity would not be bound by the laws that humans are. Period. You keep trying to equate them to man.

Your topic....you provide the proof. In every thread I've seen you post when asked for proof...you tell the person to look it up themselves. Sloppy debating. You provide YOUR own proof...or admit you have none.

See the above paragraph. You made the OP...YOU NEED TO PROVIDE THE CREDIBILITY...not me.

Of course there are rules to debating...and this is your way of dodging the fact that once again you have answered me with no proof.;)

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

You have just completely gobsmacked me with that outlandish argument.

You clearly have no knowledge of Jesus Christ and his teachings so how can you possibly say that the teachings help no-one? They have helped more people than there are stars in the sky. Me included. And you can't dispute that because if you do then you're disputing every Christian on the planet.

Jesus is perfect because he is God, his human body however was no different to yours or mine. That is how he was able to die. But even if you dispute the fact that he was the son of God on Earth, he still helped everyone he could. Even (IF) as you say he was just an ordinary man, then he still helped more people around the world than anyone in history has ever done. So how can you say that a perfect person roaming the Earth is ridiculous? Someone who is not perfect would benefit from the experience of a perfect person helping them out, and that contradicts your whole argument that it would be pointless.

People saw Jesus die on the cross that day, they saw the curtain in the temple rip and they saw darkness cover the Earth. We haven't taken on the fact that Jesus was the Son of God, we have done the opposite. We don't see Jesus now so we don't believe what he did. But they could see him then, so they believed because of what they could see.

And don't tell me that you could possibly understand how an omnipotent being works because you couldn't. Even if you believe in Jesus it wouldn't mean you understood why things are as they are. We are merely human beings, but we do however have the intelligence to choose what is right. And I can tell you that if you follow what Jesus taught us, you will be doing what is considered (by any good citizen) the right thing to do. Because his teachings were not bad and they can help you in life a lot.FB3

Certainly. He thinks with his very little knowledge on the subject and he can simply convert religious views like that. I figured it'd be something as convincing as this when I saw the thread title. Anyone who knows much of anything about Jesus can point out the many holes and inaccuracies in his argument.

Once again, you 2 represent more people who just don't seem to grasp that everything I say is my own opinion. I'm not stating any facts here that you can chop down with your imagined evidence, from your adopted beliefs. My opinion will always be right for me, just as yours will be right for you.

When will you guys understand I'm not even trying to convert anyone... :roll: You think it's not possible that I can just express how I feel about something without trying to convince others of the same? I mostly make the posts I do for the sake of generating discussion. I never at any point said that everyone should agree with me, that everyone should follow me, or that if you don't, you're a ridiculous idiot, or something like that. I may say religion is ridiculous, but it doesn't mean I think the people who follow it are idiots. Why would I think that, when not only do I believe that believers are innocent victims, but I used to be a believer myself! :?

I made a sig just for this type of situation. Have a look. Thanks.

Mormons believe in 3 Godheads.....which would make Jesus God as well. They don't believe in three persons in one. However, that is not what you initially said. You said they don't believe Jesus is a God. That is incorrect.LJS9502_basic

No, I said, and I'll say again, they don't believe Jesus IS god. Not a god. Mormons believ everyone can be a god, even.

Faulty analogy since you have no way of knowing if someone from back in the day...ie history...can teach JUST because they lived the experience. Not everyone can translate experience into instruction. And with the fact that you can't prove it...this is pointless to argue.LJS9502_basic

Not everyone can translate experience into instruction...:roll: I guess not, but they don't have to. Someone who was there could just TALK - relay the STORY to anyone who will listen, and it will be more accurate than any revised version of the story you would get in a textbook today.

My words are that He was both. Therefore, He wasn't simply a human going through life...not that I see why that matters anyway.LJS9502_basic

Nope. You specifically stated, "Jesus did live as a human". Don't believe me? Your 3rd post on page 4; the 3rd paragraph that you typed in blue.

You are not understanding that a supernatural entity would not be bound by the laws that humans are. Period. You keep trying to equate them to man.LJS9502_basic

See above.

Your topic....you provide the proof. In every thread I've seen you post when asked for proof...you tell the person to look it up themselves. Sloppy debating. You provide YOUR own proof...or admit you have none.LJS9502_basic

That's a cop out. Anyone with a computer knows they have all the information in the world at their fingertips with the internet. If someone wants to see something bad enough, they know they can find it simply with a search engine and a few clicks. Stop being lazy. :roll:

See the above paragraph. You made the OP...YOU NEED TO PROVIDE THE CREDIBILITY...not me.LJS9502_basic

Not to mention, when I do bring up things people ask for proof of, it's usually like this situation, where it's something so common, I wouldn't think I needed to prove it. It's like if I say consuming water is necessary for survival, and you ask for a link to prove it... :?

Why would I have to prove there have been some nutty dudes who claimed to be Jesus, when you would know that yourself, as long as you haven't lived in a cave for the past decade? :?

Of course there are rules to debating...and this is your way of dodging the fact that once again you have answered me with no proof.;)

LJS9502_basic

So are you just going to say there are rules to debating and walk away? Or will you show me these supposed rules...see what I'm sayin'? The vagueness continues... :lol:

Being vague is YOUR WAY of dodging, wherever there is a hole you can't fill... :shock: ...or something like that.

I don't really know what to say to this thread.

Its so hard to sum up the effort to participate in the hatefest. There is no point argueing this, because whether someone believes in something is not important. All of the religions are equally as mad, targeting one means nothing.

You should be arguing along the lines of where does someones belief start to infringe upon someone elses right not to believe or so on and so forth... I mean, really, does it matter if they believe in Jesus. All it really matters is that they keep their religion private, which most of them do a good job of.

Oh sorry, did I interupt anything? Continue, continue...

I don't really know what to say to this thread.

Its so hard to sum up the effort to participate in the hatefest. There is no point argueing this, because whether someone believes in something is not important. All of the religions are equally as mad, targeting one means nothing.

You should be arguing along the lines of where does someones belief start to infringe upon someone elses right not to believe or so on and so forth... I mean, really, does it matter if they believe in Jesus. All it really matters is that they keep their religion private, which most of them do a good job of.

Oh sorry, did I interupt anything? Continue, continue...

RKfromDownunder

I agree all religions are equally mad. But christianity is the one prevalent in American society, where I live, and the church leaders are always trying to impose their "values" onto the rest of us (mostly by influencing lawmakers). Not to mention it's the religion that personally caused myself, my family, and my friends a lot of problems, so obviously there's going to be some resentment on my part.

Thanks for participating. :)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Mormons believe in 3 Godheads.....which would make Jesus God as well. They don't believe in three persons in one. However, that is not what you initially said. You said they don't believe Jesus is a God. That is incorrect.Deity_Slapper

No, I said, and I'll say again, they don't believe Jesus IS god. Not a god. Mormons believ everyone can be a god, even

Not all sects of christianity feel the same way that you do. Deity_Slapper

Specifically which Christian sect doesn't believe Jesus was God as well as the Son. LJS9502_basic

I don't know all of them, but one for sure is the Mormons. They believe in The Heavenly Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost. All seperate entities. I know there's others, but I don't know everything.

Seems to be a discrepancy in your words...which is it?

Faulty analogy since you have no way of knowing if someone from back in the day...ie history...can teach JUST because they lived the experience. Not everyone can translate experience into instruction. And with the fact that you can't prove it...this is pointless to argue.LJS9502_basic

Not everyone can translate experience into instruction...:roll: I guess not, but they don't have to. Someone who was there could just TALK - relay the STORY to anyone who will listen, and it will be more accurate than any revised version of the story you would get in a textbook today.

Again...this point is worthless without any proof and so far you have not provided any...and I don't see how you can. Many things are taught and learned without having to be taught by one who experienced the actual events in question. I find this strange to argue.

My words are that He was both. Therefore, He wasn't simply a human going through life...not that I see why that matters anyway.LJS9502_basic

Nope. You specifically stated, "Jesus did live as a human". Don't believe me? Your 3rd post on page 4; the 3rd paragraph that you typed in blue.

Taken out of context...and still it proves nothing. Of course He lived as a human. He was part man...part divine.

You are not understanding that a supernatural entity would not be bound by the laws that humans are. Period. You keep trying to equate them to man.LJS9502_basic

See above.

Ok...two points you haven't addressed adequately at this time.

Your topic....you provide the proof. In every thread I've seen you post when asked for proof...you tell the person to look it up themselves. Sloppy debating. You provide YOUR own proof...or admit you have none.LJS9502_basic

That's a cop out. Anyone with a computer knows they have all the information in the world at their fingertips with the internet. If someone wants to see something bad enough, they know they can find it simply with a search engine and a few clicks. Stop being lazy. :roll:

In other words...you have no proof and expect everyone else to do the work for you. That my friend is the real cop out.

See the above paragraph. You made the OP...YOU NEED TO PROVIDE THE CREDIBILITY...not me.LJS9502_basic

Not to mention, when I do bring up things people ask for proof of, it's usually like this situation, where it's something so common, I wouldn't think I needed to prove it. It's like if I say consuming water is necessary for survival, and you ask for a link to prove it... :?

Why would I have to prove there have been some nutty dudes who claimed to be Jesus, when you would know that yourself, as long as you haven't lived in a cave for the past decade? :?

Meritless rant instead of proof. Gotcha.

Of course there are rules to debating...and this is your way of dodging the fact that once again you have answered me with no proof.;)

LJS9502_basic

So are you just going to say there are rules to debating and walk away? Or will you show me these supposed rules...see what I'm sayin'? The vagueness continues... :lol:

Actually I'm waiting for you to provide some support for your thesis in this thread. It's not forthcoming....so I assume you have none and that makes this thread a waste of my time.

Being vague is YOUR WAY of dodging, wherever there is a hole you can't fill... :shock: ...or something like that.

Gotta tell you dude...the only dodging being done here is yours. You made vague, unsupported statements and when asked for proof told me to look it up.:lol:

Once again this is going nowhere. I'll respond if you can present anything to respond to.....not more of this. Bye.

If jesus did exist, then Ill meet him when I die.clyde46

And say bye as you fall in to the pits of hell. HAHAHAHA:twisted:

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Mormons believe in 3 Godheads.....which would make Jesus God as well. They don't believe in three persons in one. However, that is not what you initially said. You said they don't believe Jesus is a God. That is incorrect.LJS9502_basic

No, I said, and I'll say again, they don't believe Jesus IS god. Not a god. Mormons believ everyone can be a god, even

Not all sects of christianity feel the same way that you do. Deity_Slapper

Specifically which Christian sect doesn't believe Jesus was God as well as the Son. LJS9502_basic

I don't know all of them, but one for sure is the Mormons. They believe in The Heavenly Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost. All seperate entities. I know there's others, but I don't know everything.

Seems to be a discrepancy in your words...which is it?

Uhh, this becoming confusing. I'll just say it again. Mormons belive in those 3 SEPERATE entities. By being seperate, Jesus couldn't be "god", since "god" is his father. He can't be his own father.

Faulty analogy since you have no way of knowing if someone from back in the day...ie history...can teach JUST because they lived the experience. Not everyone can translate experience into instruction. And with the fact that you can't prove it...this is pointless to argue.LJS9502_basic

Not everyone can translate experience into instruction...:roll: I guess not, but they don't have to. Someone who was there could just TALK - relay the STORY to anyone who will listen, and it will be more accurate than any revised version of the story you would get in a textbook today.

Again...this point is worthless without any proof and so far you have not provided any...and I don't see how you can. Many things are taught and learned without having to be taught by one who experienced the actual events in question. I find this strange to argue.

Many things are taught and learned, sure, we know that. The point is that first-hand experience holds more weight that heresay. That's the point. That's all there is to it. Why can't you see that? I took it a step further and compared it to Jesus, and how his lack of experience with a problem he is trying to help someone with, is only second best compared to someone who has actually been through the problem, to help the other person. For example, if I'm going through an addiction to crack (which I'm not, just an example), I'd want to talk to someone who has been through it, and overcome the addiction themselves, to help me get through it too. I wouldn't ask Jesus to get me through it, because obviously he never smoked crack. Jesus would probably just put his hand on my shoulder and tell me everything is going to be alright and to ask his father for guidance. How does that help me? Ask some guy I can't see or hear to help me with something, that if he really cared to help me with in the first place, he just would have made sure I never got involved with the crack to begin with? Sorry Jesus, you can take a hike.

And all you're going to say is that it's worthless and act like it's not worth your time. I've seen you use this tactic in the past against others when they "beat" you in a debate. Instead of admitting a mistake (which would be ok, for the millionth time), you just say, "Aahh you know what, I'm above this and until you can do better, it's pointless to continue." All that is, is just running away from the point, while simultaneously kicking dirt on your opponents words, in a last ditch effort to discredit him. Why you think people haven't caught onto this tactic is beyond me, but believe me, it doesn't make you look good...or make you look like you've "won".

My words are that He was both. Therefore, He wasn't simply a human going through life...not that I see why that matters anyway.LJS9502_basic

Nope. You specifically stated, "Jesus did live as a human". Don't believe me? Your 3rd post on page 4; the 3rd paragraph that you typed in blue.

Taken out of context...and still it proves nothing. Of course He lived as a human. He was part man...part divine.

I didn't take it out of context. I posted it word for word, and anyone who is curious could go to the original post and check for themselves! Don't go back and edit it now, LJ... ;)

You are not understanding that a supernatural entity would not be bound by the laws that humans are. Period. You keep trying to equate them to man.LJS9502_basic

See above.

Ok...two points you haven't addressed adequately at this time.

No, sir. I addressed them fully. You just didn't accept my responses as being valid. Which is ok, it's your opinion, but don't think your opinion is the golden truth. Other people here would agree that I addressed the points adequately.

Your topic....you provide the proof. In every thread I've seen you post when asked for proof...you tell the person to look it up themselves. Sloppy debating. You provide YOUR own proof...or admit you have none.LJS9502_basic

That's a cop out. Anyone with a computer knows they have all the information in the world at their fingertips with the internet. If someone wants to see something bad enough, they know they can find it simply with a search engine and a few clicks. Stop being lazy. :roll:

In other words...you have no proof and expect everyone else to do the work for you. That my friend is the real cop out.

No work is to be done when the things that I brought up, are things everyone would know just be being aware of their surroundings. Being aware of their surroundings meaning, hearing the stories about the delusional dudes who think they are Jesus on the news, in a newspaper, or from word of mouth.

Again, asking for proof of something so common is quite ridiculous to me. Would you like me to give you a link that shows that fire is hot?

See the above paragraph. You made the OP...YOU NEED TO PROVIDE THE CREDIBILITY...not me.LJS9502_basic

Not to mention, when I do bring up things people ask for proof of, it's usually like this situation, where it's something so common, I wouldn't think I needed to prove it. It's like if I say consuming water is necessary for survival, and you ask for a link to prove it... :?

Why would I have to prove there have been some nutty dudes who claimed to be Jesus, when you would know that yourself, as long as you haven't lived in a cave for the past decade? :?

Meritless rant instead of proof. Gotcha.

You think if you call it meritless, it automatically becomes so...because the almighty LJS has bestowed that label upon it, it is now so.

Sorry bud, I made a good point there, about how my point was of such common knowledge, that it didn't need a link to prove it, just like water being necessary for survival doesn't need a link to prove it. Everyone with a television (which is everyone) knows that some crazy guy pops up every once in a while and claims to be the reincarnation of Jesus. If you're saying you haven't heard of these happenings, well...you know what? That's actually so astounding, I really don't know what to say. I would just feel sorry for you I guess.

Of course there are rules to debating...and this is your way of dodging the fact that once again you have answered me with no proof.;)

LJS9502_basic

So are you just going to say there are rules to debating and walk away? Or will you show me these supposed rules...see what I'm sayin'? The vagueness continues... :lol:

Actually I'm waiting for you to provide some support for your thesis in this thread. It's not forthcoming....so I assume you have none and that makes this thread a waste of my time.

Of course it's a waste of your time... :roll: Why am I not suprised that you once again take the imaginary high road, and retreat back to the palace in your mind where you are king.

Again, nutbags claiming to be Jesus is such common knowledge, that not only do I not need to provide a link (and what good would a link do, when it could be biased anyway), but it's also quite silly for you to even ask for one.

Being vague is YOUR WAY of dodging, wherever there is a hole you can't fill... :shock: ...or something like that.

Gotta tell you dude...the only dodging being done here is yours. You made vague, unsupported statements and when asked for proof told me to look it up.:lol:

Once again this is going nowhere. I'll respond if you can present anything to respond to.....not more of this. Bye.

It's going nowhere because you're avoiding my points. I always present something worthy of response...what a low-****tactic to try and smear my credibility just by simply criticizing my words, and hoping others will agree with you. You should be able to do better than that LJ. You're an adult, and I think you're even older than me.

And my posts must be worthy of response, because you always respond! But don't respond to this particular sentence, because I know you'll just disrespect me again by saying "no you don't, meh...", and I already know you don't respect me, so I don't need to hear it for the 97th time. Thanks. :roll:

Diety_Slapper you aren't doing so good in this thread. Your initial post wasn't thought out at all and your subsequent posts are lacking logic and proof.Quick-Time

Just another way of looking at things, dude. I'm not going downhill. Expanded perception for new ideas is what's lacking here. I understand some people may or may not get it. I've gotten a couple PMs from people who DID understand the point of my original post. So it's not all for nothing.

But, why would you post just to say that?

AND, you guys keep misspelling "deity".

Let's all dump a religion that has been held for thousands of years because some guy on the intarwebz who is probably just pissed because he got 1shotted in Battlefield:Bad Company told us to.

Srsly, wtf?

[QUOTE="Quick-Time"]Diety_Slapper you aren't doing so good in this thread. Your initial post wasn't thought out at all and your subsequent posts are lacking logic and proof.Deity_Slapper

Just another way of looking at things, dude. I'm not going downhill. Expanded perception for new ideas is what's lacking here. I understand some people may or may not get it. I've gotten a couple PMs from people who DID understand the point of my original post. So it's not all for nothing.

But, why would you post just to say that?

AND, you guys keep misspelling "deity".

This is what we need: another pseudo-intellectual with "expanded perception" who can show all of us sheep the way to logical, scientific salvation. Why should anyone follow you instead of Jesus?

[QUOTE="FB3"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

You have just completely gobsmacked me with that outlandish argument.

You clearly have no knowledge of Jesus Christ and his teachings so how can you possibly say that the teachings help no-one? They have helped more people than there are stars in the sky. Me included. And you can't dispute that because if you do then you're disputing every Christian on the planet.

Jesus is perfect because he is God, his human body however was no different to yours or mine. That is how he was able to die. But even if you dispute the fact that he was the son of God on Earth, he still helped everyone he could. Even (IF) as you say he was just an ordinary man, then he still helped more people around the world than anyone in history has ever done. So how can you say that a perfect person roaming the Earth is ridiculous? Someone who is not perfect would benefit from the experience of a perfect person helping them out, and that contradicts your whole argument that it would be pointless.

People saw Jesus die on the cross that day, they saw the curtain in the temple rip and they saw darkness cover the Earth. We haven't taken on the fact that Jesus was the Son of God, we have done the opposite. We don't see Jesus now so we don't believe what he did. But they could see him then, so they believed because of what they could see.

And don't tell me that you could possibly understand how an omnipotent being works because you couldn't. Even if you believe in Jesus it wouldn't mean you understood why things are as they are. We are merely human beings, but we do however have the intelligence to choose what is right. And I can tell you that if you follow what Jesus taught us, you will be doing what is considered (by any good citizen) the right thing to do. Because his teachings were not bad and they can help you in life a lot.Deity_Slapper

Certainly. He thinks with his very little knowledge on the subject and he can simply convert religious views like that. I figured it'd be something as convincing as this when I saw the thread title. Anyone who knows much of anything about Jesus can point out the many holes and inaccuracies in his argument.

Once again, you 2 represent more people who just don't seem to grasp that everything I say is my own opinion. I'm not stating any facts here that you can chop down with your imagined evidence, from your adopted beliefs. My opinion will always be right for me, just as yours will be right for you.

When will you guys understand I'm not even trying to convert anyone... :roll: You think it's not possible that I can just express how I feel about something without trying to convince others of the same? I mostly make the posts I do for the sake of generating discussion. I never at any point said that everyone should agree with me, that everyone should follow me, or that if you don't, you're a ridiculous idiot, or something like that. I may say religion is ridiculous, but it doesn't mean I think the people who follow it are idiots. Why would I think that, when not only do I believe that believers are innocent victims, but I used to be a believer myself! :?

I made a sig just for this type of situation. Have a look. Thanks.

Sorry for jumping on it like that. I've been in System Wars a lot lately, and because of the IQs of most of the posters there, there really aren't actual discussions. Yes, I can respect your opinion very well though since you do seem like an intelligent poster. (I'm just not used to that around these forums--people who will discuss without forcing their opinions.) If you believe that, then while I don't agree with it, I do respect what you think and I regret lashing out. Again, my apologies for being so eager to jump on this.

Sorry for jumping on it like that. I've been in System Wars a lot lately, and because of the IQs of most of the posters there, there really aren't actual discussions. Yes, I can respect your opinion very well though since you do seem like an intelligent poster. (I'm just not used to that around these forums--people who will discuss without forcing their opinions.) If you believe that, then while I don't agree with it, I do respect what you think and I regret lashing out. Again, my apologies for being so eager to jump on this. FB3

Thanks. I appreciate that. I wish more people could be kind, like you just were (including myself; sometimes I get swept up in the storm of immaturity, and stone-throwing). Peace.

Why are you trying to convert people? you're no better than people who try to "save" people on street corners. It's pointless to even try and debate religion on the internet. Please, don't be ignorant. dracula_16

Irony. Pay attention and you'll see I'm not trying to convert or de-convert. Jeez. :roll:

[QUOTE="Quick-Time"]Diety_Slapper you aren't doing so good in this thread. Your initial post wasn't thought out at all and your subsequent posts are lacking logic and proof.Deity_Slapper

Just another way of looking at things, dude. I'm not going downhill. Expanded perception for new ideas is what's lacking here. I understand some people may or may not get it. I've gotten a couple PMs from people who DID understand the point of my original post. So it's not all for nothing.

But, why would you post just to say that?

AND, you guys keep misspelling "deity".

[QUOTE="dracula_16"]Why are you trying to convert people? you're no better than people who try to "save" people on street corners. It's pointless to even try and debate religion on the internet. Please, don't be ignorant. Deity_Slapper

Irony. Pay attention and you'll see I'm not trying to convert or de-convert. Jeez. :roll:

You're trying to convince people not to follow Jesus. If that's not trying to convert people then I'd like to know what is.

Your threads never make any sense, not to mention all you do is use the same "arguments" over and over. Then you go on about how such and such is your opinion but then you challenge others who present their own when they don't agree. What the hell? If you hate religion so much, why do you devote so much of your time to talking about it? Don't you have any other interests?elblanquito_81

Wow! More irony! This is starting to get like shooting fish in a barrel. So I use the same arguements over and over? Maybe, maybe not. But you sure make the same complaint over and over.

I challenge others who don't agree? What's wrong with a challenge? And challenging is a lot better than the whining you're doing.

If I hate religion why do I devote so much time to it, and don't I have other interests? Well, if you hate me so much, why do you devote time to bossing me around? Don't you have any other interests, other than playing mommy? Psst...by the way, I've stated numerous times already why I make these topics, and you can my other interests, by simply clicking on my profile, and seeing what other types of threads I have posted in. You might discover something you never would expect! It's like magic, wow! :shock:

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="Quick-Time"]Diety_Slapper you aren't doing so good in this thread. Your initial post wasn't thought out at all and your subsequent posts are lacking logic and proof.Quick-Time

Just another way of looking at things, dude. I'm not going downhill. Expanded perception for new ideas is what's lacking here. I understand some people may or may not get it. I've gotten a couple PMs from people who DID understand the point of my original post. So it's not all for nothing.

But, why would you post just to say that?

AND, you guys keep misspelling "deity".

Is this LJ's alt account?

(Beer drinker, Pens fan [I know LJ is from Pittsburgh at least], music related stuff, similar style of speech, obsession with "winning and losing"...hmm...)

Am I warm? ;)

My palm just went into the back of my skull.

Uhh, this becoming confusing. I'll just say it again. Mormons belive in those 3 SEPERATE entities. By being seperate, Jesus couldn't be "god", since "god" is his father. He can't be his own father.

Many things are taught and learned, sure, we know that. The point is that first-hand experience holds more weight that heresay. That's the point. That's all there is to it. Why can't you see that? I took it a step further and compared it to Jesus, and how his lack of experience with a problem he is trying to help someone with, is only second best compared to someone who has actually been through the problem, to help the other person. For example, if I'm going through an addiction to crack (which I'm not, just an example), I'd want to talk to someone who has been through it, and overcome the addiction themselves, to help me get through it too. I wouldn't ask Jesus to get me through it, because obviously he never smoked crack. Jesus would probably just put his hand on my shoulder and tell me everything is going to be alright and to ask his father for guidance. How does that help me? Ask some guy I can't see or hear to help me with something, that if he really cared to help me with in the first place, he just would have made sure I never got involved with the crack to begin with? Sorry Jesus, you can take a hike.

And all you're going to say is that it's worthless and act like it's not worth your time. I've seen you use this tactic in the past against others when they "beat" you in a debate. Instead of admitting a mistake (which would be ok, for the millionth time), you just say, "Aahh you know what, I'm above this and until you can do better, it's pointless to continue." All that is, is just running away from the point, while simultaneously kicking dirt on your opponents words, in a last ditch effort to discredit him. Why you think people haven't caught onto this tactic is beyond me, but believe me, it doesn't make you look good...or make you look like you've "won".

I didn't take it out of context. I posted it word for word, and anyone who is curious could go to the original post and check for themselves! Don't go back and edit it now, LJ... ;)

No, sir. I addressed them fully. You just didn't accept my responses as being valid. Which is ok, it's your opinion, but don't think your opinion is the golden truth. Other people here would agree that I addressed the points adequately.

No work is to be done when the things that I brought up, are things everyone would know just be being aware of their surroundings. Being aware of their surroundings meaning, hearing the stories about the delusional dudes who think they are Jesus on the news, in a newspaper, or from word of mouth.

Again, asking for proof of something so common is quite ridiculous to me. Would you like me to give you a link that shows that fire is hot?

You think if you call it meritless, it automatically becomes so...because the almighty LJS has bestowed that label upon it, it is now so.

Sorry bud, I made a good point there, about how my point was of such common knowledge, that it didn't need a link to prove it, just like water being necessary for survival doesn't need a link to prove it. Everyone with a television (which is everyone) knows that some crazy guy pops up every once in a while and claims to be the reincarnation of Jesus. If you're saying you haven't heard of these happenings, well...you know what? That's actually so astounding, I really don't know what to say. I would just feel sorry for you I guess.

Of course it's a waste of your time... :roll: Why am I not suprised that you once again take the imaginary high road, and retreat back to the palace in your mind where you are king.

Again, nutbags claiming to be Jesus is such common knowledge, that not only do I not need to provide a link (and what good would a link do, when it could be biased anyway), but it's also quite silly for you to even ask for one.

It's going nowhere because you're avoiding my points. I always present something worthy of response...what a low-****tactic to try and smear my credibility just by simply criticizing my words, and hoping others will agree with you. You should be able to do better than that LJ. You're an adult, and I think you're even older than me.

And my posts must be worthy of response, because you always respond! But don't respond to this particular sentence, because I know you'll just disrespect me again by saying "no you don't, meh...", and I already know you don't respect me, so I don't need to hear it for the 97th time. Thanks. :roll:

Deity_Slapper

Jesus taught about God.....He was God the son. He had experience. Your teaching point goes against you.

I haven't made any mistakes here...the reason I said it's a waste of time is because you keep repeating yourself and don't address what I've asked you.

Of course it's out of context...Jesus was both man and God. I never said otherwise.

If proof is not necessary....then basically what you are saying is you can't back up your opinion. I get it. You don't have to keep saying you don't need any though I find it ironic that you continually want me to give you proof when it's not even my thread to discuss.

Actually I have continuously addressed your points. You have dodged mine. I neither respect nor disrespect. I disagree or agree...in this case disagree with the vague comments you made that you refuse to back up.

isnt jesus supposed to be perfect becouse he is the son of god? his wisdom i suppose came from god himself who knows it all therefore has experienced everything human... so in that way jesus is worth following...

Is this LJ's alt account?

(Beer drinker, Pens fan [I know LJ is from Pittsburgh at least], music related stuff, similar style of speech, obsession with "winning and losing"...hmm...)

Am I warm? ;)

Deity_Slapper

Oh...and I'm actually a vodka drinker.;)

Am I warm? ;)

Deity_Slapper

Is this LJ's alt account?

(Beer drinker, Pens fan [I know LJ is from Pittsburgh at least], music related stuff, similar style of speech, obsession with "winning and losing"...hmm...)

Am I warm? ;)

Deity_Slapper

Wow! More irony! This is starting to get like shooting fish in a barrel. So I use the same arguements over and over? Maybe, maybe not. But you sure make the same complaint over and over.

I challenge others who don't agree? What's wrong with a challenge? And challenging is a lot better than the whining you're doing.

If I hate religion why do I devote so much time to it, and don't I have other interests? Well, if you hate me so much, why do you devote time to bossing me around? Don't you have any other interests, other than playing mommy? Psst...by the way, I've stated numerous times already why I make these topics, and you can my other interests, by simply clicking on my profile, and seeing what other types of threads I have posted in. You might discover something you never would expect! It's like magic, wow! :shock:

Deity_Slapper

Also, since your "intention" is to provide your opinion on why you think religion is wrong or bad, in your opinion (I'll say that again since you can't seem to mention it enough yourself), then why is there a need to challenge others? Shouldn't their opinions hold as much water as yours?

Most of this stuff you said was more of the same (ironically), so I'll only address the parts that I think might go somewhere (which is probably nowhere, considering who I'm talking to).

Jesus taught about God.....He was God the son. He had experience. Your teaching point goes against you.

Ok, he can teach about god. Fine. But when he attempts to teach someone about something else, a life lesson he has no experience with, this is where my point comes in. I'd rather have an ex-junkie help me kick a drug problem, rather than Mr. Goledn Boy from the clouds who has never been down that road.

I haven't made any mistakes here...the reason I said it's a waste of time is because you keep repeating yourself and don't address what I've asked you.

It's funny how you complain about people going in circles, when you are the one who actually enables that to happen, by being vague, which forces your opponent to constantly ask the same questions in order to finally get the response they were seeking. Vintage LJ on display again.

Of course it's out of context...Jesus was both man and God. I never said otherwise.

If Jesus was both man and god, then how could he have "lived as a human" like you said he did? He couldn't live like a human if he was half god. I don't know of any other humans who are half god, so it's not the same thing. Can you admit that? No? Oh well, fine.

If proof is not necessary....then basically what you are saying is you can't back up your opinion. I get it. You don't have to keep saying you don't need any though I find it ironic that you continually want me to give you proof when it's not even my thread to discuss.

I already explained why proof isn't necessary in this case. This is beyond ridiculous now. :roll:

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

Is this LJ's alt account?

(Beer drinker, Pens fan [I know LJ is from Pittsburgh at least], music related stuff, similar style of speech, obsession with "winning and losing"...hmm...)

Am I warm? ;)

Quick-Time

I didn't say you were from Pittsburgh, I said LJ was. Wow, if you couldn't even read one sentence, no wonder you didn't understand the context of my original post. No wonder it went over your head. Either that, or you've had one too many beers tonight, Mr. Beer Drinker.

Ok, he can teach about god. Fine. But when he attempts to teach someone about something else, a life lesson he has no experience with, this is where my point comes in. I'd rather have an ex-junkie help me kick a drug problem, rather than Mr. Goledn Boy from the clouds who has never been down that road.Deity_Slapper

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

Is this LJ's alt account?

(Beer drinker, Pens fan [I know LJ is from Pittsburgh at least], music related stuff, similar style of speech, obsession with "winning and losing"...hmm...)

Am I warm? ;)

LJS9502_basic

Oh...and I'm actually a vodka drinker.;)

Like you can't have mulitple accounts open at once on different computers...do you think I'm an old lady or something?

Well his account is similar to yours, he even has you and your SEXAY alt account as his friends, so even if he's not you, it's now clear why he jumped in to defend you. Weak.

And the vodka...well, that explains a lot actually. ;)

If Jesus was both man and god, then how could he have "lived as a human" like you said he did? He couldn't live like a human if he was half god. I don't know of any other humans who are half god, so it's not the same thing. Can you admit that? No? Oh well, fine.Deity_Slapper

Most of this stuff you said was more of the same (ironically), so I'll only address the parts that I think might go somewhere (which is probably nowhere, considering who I'm talking to).

Ok, he can teach about god. Fine. But when he attempts to teach someone about something else, a life lesson he has no experience with, this is where my point comes in. I'd rather have an ex-junkie help me kick a drug problem, rather than Mr. Goledn Boy from the clouds who has never been down that road.

It's funny how you complain about people going in circles, when you are the one who actually enables that to happen, by being vague, which forces your opponent to constantly ask the same questions in order to finally get the response they were seeking. Vintage LJ on display again.

If Jesus was both man and god, then how could he have "lived as a human" like you said he did? He couldn't live like a human if he was half god. I don't know of any other humans who are half god, so it's not the same thing. Can you admit that? No? Oh well, fine.

I already explained why proof isn't necessary in this case. This is beyond ridiculous now. :roll:

Deity_Slapper

What are you talking about? He only taught about God.

I'm not vague. I'm not the one that should be answering the questions. You have any confidence at all in your opinion I'd think you could talk about it.

Uh....whether you wish to believe or not...that doesn't change that when one argues religion you have to start with what is the religion. You can't unilaterally say you are going to talk about what Christians believe and then not understand that Jesus was God in human form.:|

If proof isn't necessary...why have you been asking me for it? The conundrum.....

Um, dude, I don't know what fantasy you have but I don't go about playing your "mommy". This is what, like the fifth time I've ever replied to one of your posts?

Also, since your "intention" is to provide your opinion on why you think religion is wrong or bad, in your opinion (I'll say that again since you can't seem to mention it enough yourself), then why is there a need to challenge others? Shouldn't their opinions hold as much water as yours?

elblanquito_81

1. And all 5 times were the same "Waaa! Just let us believe what we want! Why can't you just let people believe! Waaaa!"

2. There is no need to challenge others until I am challenged. Which always happens. Why do you care though? No one is being forced to participate, everyone is here willingly. So yes, you need to stop playing mommy.

I post to generate discussion, for the zillionth time. The challenges, bashing, smears, and name-calling, happens after I post my opinion, and someone gets all riled up because they DON'T AGREE WITH ME, and then IRONICALLY complain about me not letting them feel the way they want. Holy crap.