Tired of every religion thinking they are right.

[QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.-Austin-

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

Thats impossible.

Then the question is, Why can't they solve the Bermuda Triangle mystery?

Secondly, I don't know what 1400 year old story you are referring to, but if you're against scientists evaluating parts of history, then I greatly disagree with you. If you are religious, then you should have no fear that a scientist would ever find evidence that would contradict your faith. And if does, then you should at the very minimum have to shift your perspective just a bit, but not enough to convert into another religion.

Genetic_Code

To be precise, I just want a discussion. I dont deny that science is wrong at all, Well at not wrong most, if not all, points.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.

UltraZero

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

Science is more reliable than religion though. So obviously science is more apt to be correct than religion.

More reliable... Last I checked, Thats a matter of opinion which I dont agree on. Certain things were said on a certain religeon which science NOW found out being beneficial which we already knew from a certain prophet.

How is it an opinion? Science is based around evidence and religion is not. Simple as that.

Religeon explains with, the evidence falls into supernatural things and as Scorch said above, "Science can't explain the supernatural". Did you know that, Religeon goes with Science? Religeon reasons with others. Such as idol worshippers, no offence to any out there.

Point being, Religeon does explains with evidence, some tend to not believe in the evidence.

What evidence?

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.UltraZero

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science admits that Bermuda Triangle is supernatural but doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

The Bermuda Triangle is surrounded by rumors. Until something is discovered, it's all conjecture. So to answer part of your question, no. Science hasn't said anything (afaik) about the Bermuda Triangle.

And it is absolutely impossible to raise a living being from the dead. I suggest you stop looking into zombie stories.

Science says that Universe wasn't everlasting through all this enthropy theories (I don't know the full details so you can correct me) and this tells me as a believer that where the friggin heck did the Universe come from. Why is it so friggin complicated. Why is the probability of all this happening like near impossibility. How did nothing create something? You know all these things really have been debated for centuries, and show the possibility of a Creator.

1. Like the crack of the moon, its best if I dont tell you, you'd find it unbelieveable.

2. Absolutely impossible... Who told you that? Science? Its been known to not be able to explain the supernatural and raising the dead is supernatural and its known to be wrong, who knows if the time to correct itself would ever come but people used to say alot of things that can't happpen and it is happening today.

3. Science hasn't said anything about it? it has, it has done some exploration and it has given report of what they think, what they assume and what they speculate.

Another thing, the impossible is happening all around us in news these days. "Man survives something outrageous" such and such.

If all thoe outrageous thigns can happen, why not resurruction, Cloning has happened.

Science says that Universe wasn't everlasting through all this enthropy theories (I don't know the full details so you can correct me) and this tells me as a believer that where the friggin heck did the Universe come from. Why is it so friggin complicated. Why is the probability of all this happening like near impossibility. How did nothing create something? You know all these things really have been debated for centuries, and show the possibility of a Creator. The_Nintendawg

If you're talking about the Big Bang, that's false.

If all thoe outrageous thigns can happen, why not resurruction, Cloning has happened.

UltraZero

Cloning happened because of science....

Another thing, the impossible is happening all around us in news these days. "Man survives something outrageous" such and such.

If all thoe outrageous thigns can happen, why not resurruction, Cloning has happened.UltraZero

Cloning is a scientific process and has a very, very low success rate. Even then, no human has ever been cloned.

I don't mind the argument threads about religion, but the thing I really dislike is when people start to say "My religion is right, yours is wrong, and I know that for a fact." No one knows which religion is the correct one. Chances are, all religions are completely wrong. To say " I'm right" is ignorant, since there is not enough proof to support any religion (including Atheism). We should all just mind our own business and stop trying to convert everyone on the internet. Who agrees with me?harashawn

Because people WANT to believe there is someone connecting them to god, people if kept ignorant, will DEMAND all the wrongs in the world. I believe in god, yes, but i believe every religion has lost its way.

Basically, people want direction, the thought of venturing forth into a world without some divine being out there having any connection to them, so they seek how to create a connection. Get my rift?

The reason they are like this, is because they dont want to take full responsibilty of their actions, they can go to a church/mosque and forgot the jewish equivalent, and say "I have sinned, and i would like to repent" (Assuming your catholic) and that gives them the ILLUSION that everything is set right, people WANT to be fooled, people dont like taking responsibility, since to point out someone elses flaw is as easy, but to point out your own flaw is difficult, so what to they do? they go back to their religion, its a never-ending cycle that cant be stopped.

If we believe we can find intelligent life on other planets, i beg to differ, intelligent life isnt on earth. People being killed for mere profit, legal genocides, endless debates on things that do not affect one's life, until our society opens its eyes and stops showing the charistecs of a child, it will be hard to go on alone in society, and the loop continues.

And as times get more and more bad, more people lean on a religion for the ILLUSION of support.

WHAT I WONT DENY is that religious communites are GREAT. They help one another out, and they are like family, that is the only upside i see to religion.

If you believe in a religion i dont think it is wrong to think you are right. i follow christianity and i would not abstain from certain things if i did not think i was right. having said that i dont think i have everything figured out and am right on everything but as a whole since i believe one thing i think it is obvious i think im right. this i would think goes for every religion. i would not see the point in following a religion not thinking it was right

alright im done

Religion is something I stay away from because of all the hatred and dogma that is associated with it. people have the right to what they belive but In my opinion religion takes it to many steps farther so thats why I stray from it.

If you believe in a religion i dont think it is wrong to think you are right. i follow christianity and i would not abstain from certain things if i did not think i was right. having said that i dont think i have everything figured out and am right on everything but as a whole since i believe one thing i think it is obvious i think im right. this i would think goes for every religion. i would not see the point in following a religion not thinking it was right

alright im done

metaldude05

Science says that Universe wasn't everlasting through all this enthropy theories (I don't know the full details so you can correct me) and this tells me as a believer that where the friggin heck did the Universe come from. Why is it so friggin complicated. Why is the probability of all this happening like near impossibility. How did nothing create something? You know all these things really have been debated for centuries, and show the possibility of a Creator.

The_Nintendawg

It's why I've accepted that the people who claim their religion is right are usually wrong and misinformed about their own beliefs or have twisted their own beliefs to fit what they want to believe. It's easier for me to sit back and laugh at people for being so misguided.Tiefster

Atheist suffer the same thing if you think about it, they refuse to believe God becuz they wish more control over their life, more freedom without consequence. All this is wishful thinking just like you associate that with religion.The_Nintendawg

Having read through the remainder of this thread, there is one thing that strikes me as very bizarre. Most notably, there is no such thing as "supernatural" evidence. That is, literally, an oxymoron.

If religious scripture is proof of deities (and by that, I mean all of them. Don't forget, if the Bible is proof of God, then the Koran is also proof of Allah by that very logic), then tales about fairies and ghouls and unicorns must also be true right? Can't disprove them right? :roll:

The whole point of the supernatural is that is cannot be substantiated because of it's very nature. The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science, and no amount of religious preaching will change that.

[QUOTE="UltraZero"]

If all thoe outrageous thigns can happen, why not resurruction, Cloning has happened.

-Austin-

Cloning happened because of science....

My point exactly. Wasn't it deemed impossible 1000 years ago?

You claim resurruction impossible but not supernatural? Science really needs to correct itself.

[QUOTE="UltraZero"]Another thing, the impossible is happening all around us in news these days. "Man survives something outrageous" such and such.

If all thoe outrageous thigns can happen, why not resurruction, Cloning has happened.scorch-62

Cloning is a scientific process and has a very, very low success rate. Even then, no human has ever been cloned.

Yet it was a success. A sheep was cloned.

I do not believe in any religion but i wouldn't go as far as to say God doesn't exist. Honestly I'll find out when I die and that's how its going to be. Only problem i have with religious people like die hard Catholics is when they completely ignore stuff like scientific facts out of pure ignorance. A girl i work with said in a scientific discussion we were somewhat having " Asteroids??? You believe in asteroids?" And that's not the first time I have heard something that dumb from a religious person. I have heard "the moon is fake" etc. I'm not saying all Catholics and other religions are all like that but its people like them that make religions look even worst.

Also according to the Bible we were all created in "God's" image... Am i right??? I know it does... So if we find an alien species of our intelligence or even smarter(its bound to happen with over trillions of planets many which are a lot older then our own) Does that mean we are better then them because we are in "God's" image and they are not? Well according to my high school religion teacher who I do consider to be a highly intelligent man, there are no alien species(BS). :( that's religion for you.

The whole point of the supernatural is that is cannot be substantiated because of it's very nature. The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science, and no amount of religious preaching will change that.

luke1889

1. Who judges if they can or cannot be substantiated at all? Isn't that a point of God to show his believers that he can do the supernatural? I mean, the people wanted him to do supernatural deeds and he does it and then they claim it to be unbelieveable. It happened back then, its happening now. Imagine the Irony.

2. Science told me Pluto was planet for alot of years of my life. With their so called "Credible and reliable" facts. Next you know, the defination of Atom will change in 50 Years.

UltraZero. No theory or claim that has been tested and proven correctly has been proven wrong. It can't happen. If you build a washing machine that makes clothes wet and tumbles them around, that washing machine was built correctly. If it hadn't been it wouldn't have worked. We've established that this type of washing machine makes clothes wet and tumbles them around. If you build another the same way, it'll do the same thing. If it doesn't, you built it wrong. We've said nothing about how long it lasts, how well it washes, whether or not it'll one day blow up or if the clothes will vaporize. It's irrelevant to the fact that it functions.

If there has not been a single recorded event in the history of humanity where an object within the Earth's atmosphere did not drop with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s towards the centre of the Earth, we've established the law of gravity. We don't know if one day an object will fall with an acceleration of 1.5 m/s, our minds can imagine that such a thing could happen, but we know with as much certainty as any human being can know anything that this is impossible.

You may decide to pull the same nonsense you've been pulling in this thread here and pretend that your religion is somehow above science and that your knowledge of God exceeds the possibilities of human enquiry. Science is not this far-out concept; it's human knowledge. It's the pinnacle of human enquiry. What makes you think your knowledge, the knowledge you have from reading the Qur'an (I assume) is superior to the knowledge of everyone else? If someone claims something to be true in science, scientists do not agree automatically. If someone displays evidence, makes a rational conclusion and submits it to the scientific process of peer-review, and the scientific community agrees with his conclusion, that's science at work. He might be wrong. They might all be wrong. Until you can prove they are, they're right. Saying that your book you read says something else is not proof. And proof is not a far-out concept either that you can dismiss because it's a word meant to explain a concept, as you seemed to imply you could. You're questioning the extremely blatant fundamentals of humanity. Speech and reason.

You're human. You might be wrong about the Qur'an. So we ask you, prove the Qur'an. You say, "I don't have to, science isn't perfect." What about reason? Does that not enter into the picture? If someone who has dedicated his life to studying the earth says that it is not possible that it was covered in water during the time humans were alive, and that it is not possible that humans were alive before dinosaurs, and everyone else who have dedicated their lives to studying the earth agree, what makes you think your intelligence or knowledge exceeds theirs? You read a book? How do you know this book is special? How do you know it was written by God? "Yeah, I know this book's true 'cause it says it right there in the book."

If you don't think science is reliable or correct then why haven't your clothes fallen to pieces? Why hasn't your house fallen down? Why haven't bridges you've walked across broken? Why do the cars you've ridden in (I assume you're too young to drive) not broken down?

All these things are products of science. Of human knowledge. Use your ability to reason to find something wrong with the conclusions of geologists. Get a degree in geology before you do, though, because you're too ignorant to question geology before you've studied it.

Besides, you are not questioning science because you find something fundamentally wrong with it, you are doing it because it contradicts your religion. Your sense that your knowledge and faith is beyond reason is a typically simple-minded view held by fundamentalists. It's a way for them to not have to explain things. One of many methods people of faith use to not have to explain themselves.

The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science luke1889

[QUOTE="luke1889"]

The whole point of the supernatural is that is cannot be substantiated because of it's very nature. The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science, and no amount of religious preaching will change that.

UltraZero

1. Who judges if they can or cannot be substantiated at all? Isn't that a point of God to show his believers that he can do the supernatural? I mean, the people wanted him to do supernatural deeds and he does it and then they claim it to be unbelieveable. It happened back then, its happening now. Imagine the Irony.

2. Science told me Pluto was planet for alot of years of my life. With their so called "Credible and reliable" facts. Next you know, the defination of Atom will change in 50 Years.

Why do you keep bringing up the planet thing and pluto? The change from a planet to a dwarf planet is just a way of classifcation. By your standards we should call a whale a fish because im sure at one point people called all thing in the water fish.

[QUOTE="luke1889"]

The whole point of the supernatural is that is cannot be substantiated because of it's very nature. The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science, and no amount of religious preaching will change that.

UltraZero

1. Who judges if they can or cannot be substantiated at all? Isn't that a point of God to show his believers that he can do the supernatural? I mean, the people wanted him to do supernatural deeds and he does it and then they claim it to be unbelieveable. It happened back then, its happening now. Imagine the Irony.

2. Science told me Pluto was planet for alot of years of my life. With their so called "Credible and reliable" facts. Next you know, the defination of Atom will change in 50 Years.

Firstly, that's not irony. Anyway, have you considered that an omnipotent God would perhaps create a miracle more impressive than, say, some poxy little crying statue? He's God! He could tell us of his existence from the skies, and the whole world would believe in him.

Also, Pluto was considered by its discoverers, and plenty of other scientists, to not be a planet; it was kind of borderline. Physical facts have nothing to do with it; they just defined 'planet' more precisely.

[QUOTE="luke1889"]

The whole point of the supernatural is that is cannotbe substantiated because of it's very nature. The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science, and no amount of religious preaching will change that.

UltraZero

1. Who judges if they can or cannot be substantiated at all? Isn't that a point of God to show his believers that he can do the supernatural? I mean, the people wanted him to do supernatural deeds and he does it and then they claim it to be unbelieveable. It happened back then, its happening now. Imagine the Irony.

2. Science told me Pluto was planet for alot of years of my life. With their so called "Credible and reliable" facts. Next you know, the defination of Atom will change in 50 Years.

Indeed, your obfuscation and bastardisation of science is laughable. The change of Pluto's status was nothing more than trivial to fit into the new categorical system that astronomers had created. The reason for this was because there were many celestial bodies way, way outside our current solar system that were of a similar size to Pluto, and it would have been ridiculous to also call these part of our solar system should Pluto also remain included. Thus the status change came about.

It never changed anything about Pluto and all scientific facts and knowledge about the former planet remained intact. Hence why your attack here is feeble.

Your first point is based in a fairy land, so far as science is concerned. Science states that, in the current scientific climate, the supernatural cannot be substantiated. This is where my opinion derives from.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.UltraZero

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science admits that Bermuda Triangle is supernatural but doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

Actually, the last time I watched a documentary about the Bermuda Triangle, they plotted all the recorded crashes around the region and most of them landed outside the triangle.

Perhaps there is some strange phenomena going on there. Just because we can't explain it now, doesn't mean we won't explain it later. How is science 'wrong' if it can't explain the bermuda triangle? Can you explain it? It could just be a modern myth, which is what the aforementioned documentary pointed out.

UltraZero. No theory or claim that has been tested and proven correctly has been proven wrong. It can't happen. If you build a washing machine that makes clothes wet and tumbles them around, that washing machine was built correctly. If it hadn't been it wouldn't have worked. We've established that this type of washing machine makes clothes wet and tumbles them around. If you build another the same way, it'll do the same thing. If it doesn't, you built it wrong. We've said nothing about how long it lasts, how well it washes, whether or not it'll one day blow up or if the clothes will vaporize. It's irrelevant to the fact that it functions.

If there has not been a single recorded event in the history of humanity where an object within the Earth's atmosphere did not drop with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s towards the centre of the Earth, we've established the law of gravity. We don't know if one day an object will fall with an acceleration of 1.5 m/s, our minds can imagine that such a thing could happen, but we know with as much certainty as any human being can know anything that this is impossible.

You may decide to pull the same nonsense you've been pulling in this thread here and pretend that your religion is somehow above science and that your knowledge of God exceeds the possibilities of human enquiry. Science is not this far-out concept; it's human knowledge. It's the pinnacle of human enquiry. What makes you think your knowledge, the knowledge you have from reading the Qur'an (I assume) is superior to the knowledge of everyone else? If someone claims something to be true in science, scientists do not agree automatically. If someone displays evidence, makes a rational conclusion and submits it to the scientific process of peer-review, and the scientific community agrees with his conclusion, that's science at work. He might be wrong. They might all be wrong. Until you can prove they are, they're right. Saying that your book you read says something else is not proof. And proof is not a far-out concept either that you can dismiss because it's a word meant to explain a concept, as you seemed to imply you could. You're questioning the extremely blatant fundamentals of humanity. Speech and reason.

You're human. You might be wrong about the Qur'an. So we ask you, prove the Qur'an. You say, "I don't have to, science isn't perfect." What about reason? Does that not enter into the picture? If someone who has dedicated his life to studying the earth says that it is not possible that it was covered in water during the time humans were alive, and that it is not possible that humans were alive before dinosaurs, and everyone else who have dedicated their lives to studying the earth agree, what makes you think your intelligence or knowledge exceeds theirs? You read a book? How do you know this book is special? How do you know it was written by God? "Yeah, I know this book's true 'cause it says it right there in the book."

If you don't think science is reliable or correct then why haven't your clothes fallen to pieces? Why hasn't your house fallen down? Why haven't bridges you've walked across broken? Why do the cars you've ridden in (I assume you're too young to drive) not broken down?

All these things are products of science. Of human knowledge. Use your ability to reason to find something wrong with the conclusions of geologists. Get a degree in geology before you do, though, because you're too ignorant to question geology before you've studied it.

Besides, you are not questioning science because you find something fundamentally wrong with it, you are doing it because it contradicts your religion. Your sense that your knowledge and faith is beyond reason is a typically simple-minded view held by fundamentalists. It's a way for them to not have to explain things. One of many methods people of faith use to not have to explain themselves.

[quote="luke1889"] The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science WhiteWorld

This is a truly fantastic post. I salute you.

*salutes*

[QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.Red-XIII

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science admits that Bermuda Triangle is supernatural but doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

Actually, the last time I watched a documentary about the Bermuda Triangle, they plotted all the recorded crashes around the region and most of them landed outside the triangle.

Perhaps there is some strange phenomena going on there. Just because we can't explain it now, doesn't mean we won't explain it later. How is science 'wrong' if it can't explain the bermuda triangle? Can you explain it? It could just be a modern myth, which is what the aforementioned documentary pointed out.

I never said Science is wrong, just that, It claims BT to be supernatural and resurrection to be impossible.

Firstly, that's not irony. Anyway, have you considered that an omnipotent God would perhaps create a miracle more impressive than, say, some poxy little crying statue? He's God! He could tell us of his existence from the skies, and the whole world would believe in him.

Also, Pluto was considered by its discoverers, and plenty of other scientists, to not be a planet; it was kind of borderline. Physical facts have nothing to do with it; they just defined 'planet' more precisely.

Funky_Llama

Yes, he could do anything and make the whole world believe him but then comes a verse. If he made everyone in the heavens and the Earth believe, then where will be the human will? Who is given a choice to believe or not? In another thing, most of the supernatural things were done because of the people demanded they wanted such type of supernatural thing to occur.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.

UltraZero

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

The Bermuda Triangle has been explained.. don't quote me on everything but I'll try to explain the best I can from memory. There are large pockets of Methane? gas all over that area underground. When those pockets release, that gas is released into the air. This has been proven to interrupt magnetical instruments and stall certain engines when large amounts of this gas are present.

EDIT- There was also something on the gas changing the density, there was a 2 hour special on this on the discovery channel.

UltraZero. No theory or claim that has been tested and proven correctly has been proven wrong. It can't happen. If you build a washing machine that makes clothes wet and tumbles them around, that washing machine was built correctly. If it hadn't been it wouldn't have worked. We've established that this type of washing machine makes clothes wet and tumbles them around. If you build another the same way, it'll do the same thing. If it doesn't, you built it wrong. We've said nothing about how long it lasts, how well it washes, whether or not it'll one day blow up or if the clothes will vaporize. It's irrelevant to the fact that it functions.

If there has not been a single recorded event in the history of humanity where an object within the Earth's atmosphere did not drop with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s towards the centre of the Earth, we've established the law of gravity. We don't know if one day an object will fall with an acceleration of 1.5 m/s, our minds can imagine that such a thing could happen, but we know with as much certainty as any human being can know anything that this is impossible.

You may decide to pull the same nonsense you've been pulling in this thread here and pretend that your religion is somehow above science and that your knowledge of God exceeds the possibilities of human enquiry. Science is not this far-out concept; it's human knowledge. It's the pinnacle of human enquiry. What makes you think your knowledge, the knowledge you have from reading the Qur'an (I assume) is superior to the knowledge of everyone else? If someone claims something to be true in science, scientists do not agree automatically. If someone displays evidence, makes a rational conclusion and submits it to the scientific process of peer-review, and the scientific community agrees with his conclusion, that's science at work. He might be wrong. They might all be wrong. Until you can prove they are, they're right. Saying that your book you read says something else is not proof. And proof is not a far-out concept either that you can dismiss because it's a word meant to explain a concept, as you seemed to imply you could. You're questioning the extremely blatant fundamentals of humanity. Speech and reason.

You're human. You might be wrong about the Qur'an. So we ask you, prove the Qur'an. You say, "I don't have to, science isn't perfect." What about reason? Does that not enter into the picture? If someone who has dedicated his life to studying the earth says that it is not possible that it was covered in water during the time humans were alive, and that it is not possible that humans were alive before dinosaurs, and everyone else who have dedicated their lives to studying the earth agree, what makes you think your intelligence or knowledge exceeds theirs? You read a book? How do you know this book is special? How do you know it was written by God? "Yeah, I know this book's true 'cause it says it right there in the book."

If you don't think science is reliable or correct then why haven't your clothes fallen to pieces? Why hasn't your house fallen down? Why haven't bridges you've walked across broken? Why do the cars you've ridden in (I assume you're too young to drive) not broken down?

All these things are products of science. Of human knowledge. Use your ability to reason to find something wrong with the conclusions of geologists. Get a degree in geology before you do, though, because you're too ignorant to question geology before you've studied it.

Besides, you are not questioning science because you find something fundamentally wrong with it, you are doing it because it contradicts your religion. Your sense that your knowledge and faith is beyond reason is a typically simple-minded view held by fundamentalists. It's a way for them to not have to explain things. One of many methods people of faith use to not have to explain themselves.

[quote="luke1889"] The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science WhiteWorld

This is where you are wrong. I do not claim Science to be false, neither does my religeon. If you recall, or you might've missed my post, I'm just doing this for the sake of an arguement.

The Quran encourages knowledge. It does not condemn science. Also,

"Besides, you are not questioning science because you find something fundamentally wrong with it, you are doing it because it contradicts your religion. Your sense that your knowledge and faith is beyond reason is a typically simple-minded view held by fundamentalists. It's a way for them to not have to explain things. One of many methods people of faith use to not have to explain themselves."

I never denied science is fundamentally wrong because it contradicts my religeon. Sure, Science contradicts at points, This doesn't mean I should question Science. Because, I already know why there is a contradiction, this is the sign of God. Humans asked for the impossible and it happened, a contradiction with science is to be made at this point. Also, I never did bring Religeon into any of this. Because I don't deny modern Science nor my religeon because both of it go well together. Advancements on science were also made by Muslims, you know.

[QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.UltraZero

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science admits that Bermuda Triangle is supernatural but doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

Actually, the last time I watched a documentary about the Bermuda Triangle, they plotted all the recorded crashes around the region and most of them landed outside the triangle.

Perhaps there is some strange phenomena going on there. Just because we can't explain it now, doesn't mean we won't explain it later. How is science 'wrong' if it can't explain the bermuda triangle? Can you explain it? It could just be a modern myth, which is what the aforementioned documentary pointed out.

I never said Science is wrong, just that, It claims BT to be supernatural and resurrection to be impossible.

Firstly, that's not irony. Anyway, have you considered that an omnipotent God would perhaps create a miracle more impressive than, say, some poxy little crying statue? He's God! He could tell us of his existence from the skies, and the whole world would believe in him.

Also, Pluto was considered by its discoverers, and plenty of other scientists, to not be a planet; it was kind of borderline. Physical facts have nothing to do with it; they just defined 'planet' more precisely.

Funky_Llama

Yes, he could do anything and make the whole world believe him but then comes a verse. If he made everyone in the heavens and the Earth believe, then where will be the human will? Who is given a choice to believe or not? In another thing, most of the supernatural things were done because of the people demanded they wanted such type of supernatural thing to occur.

Yes, but who'd want to wilfully choose not to believe the truth? I, along with everyone else, want to know the truth. If God exists, I wantto know it. It's ridiculous to suggest that knowledge of God's existence is somehow bad because it violates free will. It doesn't. It violates uncertainty. And I'm pretty sure that no one cares about their uncertainty being violated.

You claim to believe it is not the truth while I claim to believe it is.

Denying God's existence isn't violating free will. Its demonstrating that "Yes, I deny God because I can." There. God has said that Humans are special from angels because they are given free will and there, you deny God because you have been given the will to do so while I accept God because I have been given the will to do so.

Science has shown apes or was it monkeys? to have the most closest matching gene to humans am I right? Religeon claimed to turn a bunch of people into that animal as a punishment for what they did. This is a good example of Science and Religeon going together.

[QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.UltraZero

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science admits that Bermuda Triangle is supernatural but doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

Actually, the last time I watched a documentary about the Bermuda Triangle, they plotted all the recorded crashes around the region and most of them landed outside the triangle.

Perhaps there is some strange phenomena going on there. Just because we can't explain it now, doesn't mean we won't explain it later. How is science 'wrong' if it can't explain the bermuda triangle? Can you explain it? It could just be a modern myth, which is what the aforementioned documentary pointed out.

I never said Science is wrong, just that, It claims BT to be supernatural and resurrection to be impossible.

Where does Science claim that the Bermuda Triangle is supernatural?

[QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.Red-XIII

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science admits that Bermuda Triangle is supernatural but doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

Actually, the last time I watched a documentary about the Bermuda Triangle, they plotted all the recorded crashes around the region and most of them landed outside the triangle.

Perhaps there is some strange phenomena going on there. Just because we can't explain it now, doesn't mean we won't explain it later. How is science 'wrong' if it can't explain the bermuda triangle? Can you explain it? It could just be a modern myth, which is what the aforementioned documentary pointed out.

I never said Science is wrong, just that, It claims BT to be supernatural and resurrection to be impossible.

Where does Science claim that the Bermuda Triangle is supernatural?

Scorch implied it. Or he meant something else and I mis-assumed it.

[QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="UltraZero"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]Science is right ALOT more than it is wrong. Saying science shouldn't be used to prove things as fact is very stupid.UltraZero

Yet a doubt lingers and when using those facts against religeon is something I advise against.

Sure, Science is so great that it can't solve the century long Bermuda Triangle question (As far as I'm upto date) but it still is true on many points, I admit it.

It has been siad time after time that science can't explain the supernatural.

So science admits that Bermuda Triangle is supernatural but doesnt admit on a human being able to resurrect others?

Actually, the last time I watched a documentary about the Bermuda Triangle, they plotted all the recorded crashes around the region and most of them landed outside the triangle.

Perhaps there is some strange phenomena going on there. Just because we can't explain it now, doesn't mean we won't explain it later. How is science 'wrong' if it can't explain the bermuda triangle? Can you explain it? It could just be a modern myth, which is what the aforementioned documentary pointed out.

I never said Science is wrong, just that, It claims BT to be supernatural and resurrection to be impossible.

Where does Science claim that the Bermuda Triangle is supernatural?

Scorch implied it. Or he meant something else and I mis-assumed it.

Read up a couple posts, science has proven what the disturbance is in the bermuda triangle

Scorch implied it. Or he meant something else and I mis-assumed it. UltraZero

Since when was Scorch the spokesman for the scientific community?

Read up a couple posts, science has proven what the disturbance is in the bermuda triangle

import_fighter1

I did read on them. My post in the quote was made BEFORE those posts were posted.

[QUOTE="UltraZero"]Scorch implied it. Or he meant something else and I mis-assumed it. Red-XIII

Since when was Scorch the spokesman for the scientific community?

I never said he was But he was speaking for the "Science team" just like you and everyone else is.

The whole point of the supernatural is that is cannot be substantiated because of it's very nature. The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science, and no amount of religious preaching will change that.

luke1889

Can you use science to prove that assertion?

First of all, the Bible has been claimed to be a historical document, so you have to read it as a document. In ancient times there were 24,000 prints of the Bible in different texts and "books" of the Bible, when different people were writing them, all of the stories were the same.

While using the example...down the telephone line...meaning, as word goes, it changes. But, with the Bible, nothing has changed. Something so precious and perfect like it can't be changed. It's the Word of God. Not some fairy tale.

3eyedrazorback

No God wrote the bible. It was written by man. There are hundreds of contradictions and inconsistencies as well as others that seem to be quite absurd:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

For example every word of God is true but it also says God deceives some of the prophets. Or EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect? There also seems to be a lot of atrocities and vulgarities so there is probably a lot of language in it that could not be used on this forum even though it is from the bible.

Someone also posted this about a discussion on whether the bible has changed over time or during translation:

It really doesn't mean anything if it has changed or not. Consider this, if the story of Zeus throwing thunderbolts or sentencing Prometheus for giving humans fire has not changed over time, does that make them anymore real or true? What matters is if the stories told by any "holy text" have evidence to support that they actually happened. So far, there is no evidence to support any "holy text".

There are many religions and many God's and I am sure each believes the same about their God or God's. I don't think their beliefs can be proven though or can they?

[QUOTE="3eyedrazorback"]

First of all, the Bible has been claimed to be a historical document, so you have to read it as a document. In ancient times there were 24,000 prints of the Bible in different texts and "books" of the Bible, when different people were writing them, all of the stories were the same.

While using the example...down the telephone line...meaning, as word goes, it changes. But, with the Bible, nothing has changed. Something so precious and perfect like it can't be changed. It's the Word of God. Not some fairy tale.

HeyDoYaThang

No God wrote the bible. It was written by man. There are hundreds of contradictions and inconsistencies as well as others that seem to be quite absurd:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

For example every word of God is true but it also says God deceives some of the prophets. Or EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect? There also seems to be a lot of atrocities and vulgarities so there is probably a lot of language in it that could not be used on this forum even though it is from the bible.

Someone also posted this about a discussion on whether the bible has changed over time or during translation:

It really doesn't mean anything if it has changed or not. Consider this, if the story of Zeus throwing thunderbolts or sentencing Prometheus for giving humans fire has not changed over time, does that make them anymore real or true? What matters is if the stories told by any "holy text" have evidence to support that they actually happened. So far, there is no evidence to support any "holy text".

There are many religions and many God's and I am sure each believes the same about their God or God's. I don't think their beliefs can be proven though or can they?

Donald Morgan, huh?

He gets his ass handed to him here: http://www.tektonics.org/lp/morgand01.html

That specific article is refuted here: http://www.tektonics.org/lp/morgand02.html

As for Ezekiel 20: 25, God is not saying that he gave bad laws to the Israelites, but that he gave the Israelites over to the bad laws they had created for themselves. The Israelites had rejected the laws God did give them, despite repeated warnings and punishments (20:8-21), and so as a greater punishment God no longer corrected them, but allowed them to do as they pleased and reach greater levels of depravity. Verse 26 seems to say that the Israelites might become horrified at their own sin as a result, and then turn back to God.

This notion of God "giving people over" to their own evil desires also appears in Psalm 81:11-12 and Romans 1:21-28. Psalm 81:12 states it clearly: "I gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices."

With God deceiving the prophets, this is a simple objection that is thoroughly answered here by one of the smartest Christians alive right now.

Honestly, if you just look this stuff up on websites that aren't atheistic, you could probably easily find an explanation of contradictions or iffy passages. It isn't that hard.

[QUOTE="luke1889"]

The whole point of the supernatural is that is cannot be substantiated because of it's very nature. The only thing that provides us with credible and reliable truth and facts is science, and no amount of religious preaching will change that.

Theokhoth

Can you use science to prove that assertion?

The whole basis of science is having empirical evidence to support theories. I don't see a problem with his statement.