To all the people who dont support same sex marriage

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="links136"] Gay marriage violates the constitution and declaration of Independence. I mean how do you think slavery got turned?
links136

A state BANNING gay marriage does not violate the Constitution, and the Declaration has nothing to do with the law.:|

Read this topic. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly throughout the years that it does not violate the Constitution. The federal government has no say in marriage, gay or straight.

The Declaration had nothing to do with freeing the slaves!:lol: Please, learn your federal government.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

This thread is about gay marriage, not abortions. Even then, you cannot accurately state that abortion is "legalized murder."

battlefront23

He asked the question, I answered. And yes I can. It violates all three of these tenets we hold dear: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You're at as much fault as he is then, since you continued on about a vastly different issue from gay marriage. Also, whether abortion breaks the "tenets" of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is debatable, which I actually find quite ironic and hypocritical since banning gay marriage also breaks the "tenets" of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[QUOTE="links136"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

 

A state BANNING gay marriage does not violate the Constitution, and the Declaration has nothing to do with the law.:|

Theokhoth

Read this topic. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly throughout the years that it does not violate the Constitution. The federal government has no say in marriage, gay or straight.

The Declaration had nothing to do with freeing the slaves!:lol: Please, learn your federal government.

And I beg to differ. Why do think Lincoln was on the stance he was?  He knew that slavery was against what America was founded on.  

What a country.  Where beliefs outrank in matters which do not harm or affect them over peoples rights and happiness. 

[QUOTE="-Austin-"]

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"]I think it's important to have sex before marriage, your going to need the practice if you want to keep your wife happy! And believe me if you have never been with a women before marriage and if she has never been with a man. Chances of your staying together after a couple of years i think would be pretty grim.duncancameron23

It would probably increase the odds of staying together.....

You tell me that when your 30 and i'll except it's your view. 

My parents did that, and they've been married for 25 years. :|

In fact, the majority of my family had arranged marriages, and none of them have ever divorced. Funnily enough, the one couple that did have a divorce were not arranged, and went through the type of relationship you think has better end results.

You're at as much fault as he is then, since you continued on about a vastly different issue from gay marriage. Also, whether abortion breaks the "tenets" of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is debatable, which I actually find quite ironic and hypocritical since banning gay marriage also breaks the "tenets" of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

-Jiggles-

Sue me then. But anyway, I never stated my view on gay marriage on this thread yet. I don't really have one anyway. Morally, it's wrong. But it would be violating two of those tenets. So I'm undecided. But abortion goes against all of those tenets. 

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="mstc_Q"]

I'd vote for it.

But not just because the Bible says it's bad; children out of wedlock causes a host of problems.

battlefront23

Same here. 

Actually, now that I think about it, it should be discouraged but not illegal, as that would be unconstitutional. Rather then telling kids to "have protection" teachers and parents should be telling their students to not have sex. But I guess that's just too much. :roll:

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

 

It would probably increase the odds of staying together.....

Renegade_Fury

You tell me that when your 30 and i'll except it's your view.

My parents did that, and they've been married for 25 years. :|

In fact, the majority of my family had arranged marriages, and none of them have ever divorced. Funnily enough, the one couple that did have a divorce were not arranged, and went through the type of relationship you think has better end results.

When I plug something in, I don't try to put two plugs together nor do I attempt to put the outlets together. Plugs fit into outlets. That's how it works.Huell_Howser

I like this analogy. A lot actually. ;) 

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

You're at as much fault as he is then, since you continued on about a vastly different issue from gay marriage. Also, whether abortion breaks the "tenets" of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is debatable, which I actually find quite ironic and hypocritical since banning gay marriage also breaks the "tenets" of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

battlefront23

Sue me then. But anyway, I never stated my view on gay marriage on this thread yet. I don't really have one anyway. Morally, it's wrong. But it would be violating two of those tenets. So I'm undecided. But abortion goes against all of those tenets.

Uh-huh. Again, that is entirely debatable and you're using your own opinion to specify whether something is a fact or not, which, when concerning the opinions the others, is unjust. Until the scientific community has issued exactly when a fetus is considered a human, nobody can confirm whether abortions are acceptable or not. I say we drop this issue since it belongs in another thread, not a thread about gay marriage.

Now, what I would like to ask is why gay marriage is "morally wrong" to you.

I don't understand why homosexuals are treated like second class citizens, and don't have equal marriage rights. Makes absolutely no sense to me, and I find it sickening that people are actually bothered by two people of the same gender marrying eachother. It does not affect them, and is none of their business in the first place. That's just imo though, and I don't really care about religion either. ;) CyberElite85

When I have kids, I don't want to deal with them asking me why men are having sex with men and women are having sex with women. Kids should be learning about the birds and the bees, not the birds and the birds or the bees and the bees. And you're exactly right, their preference is none of my business and that's exactly how it should stay. They can do whatever they want behind closed doors.

Uh-huh. Again, that is entirely debatable and you're using your own opinion to specify whether something is a fact or not, which, when concerning the opinions the others, is unjust. Until the scientific community has issued exactly when a fetus is considered a human, nobody can confirm whether abortions are acceptable or not. I say we drop this issue since it belongs in another thread, not a thread about gay marriage.

Now, what I would like to ask is why gay marriage is "morally wrong" to you.

-Jiggles-

Science is of NO relevance to the morality or lack thereof of abortion. Same goes murder, stealing, etc. Science has nothing on morality and I don't even know why the hell so many people (not you specifically but a lot of users here) on GS think science is the end all on every issue. I really don't see why people think abortion is right (except in a few circumstances but even then) It's not right and it never will be. But anyway, what do I base my views on homosexuality? The Bible... as I do all of my other beliefs. Call me brainwashed but I really don't care.

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"][QUOTE="duncancameron23"]

 

You tell me that when your 30 and i'll except it's your view.

links136

My parents did that, and they've been married for 25 years. :|

In fact, the majority of my family had arranged marriages, and none of them have ever divorced. Funnily enough, the one couple that did have a divorce were not arranged, and went through the type of relationship you think has better end results.

The point is, if two people that hardly know each other can form a functional and happy marriage, then there is no excuse for as to why intercourse has to play such a big role in other realtionships. I think most people in this society do not have the patience nor tolerance for a long lasting relationship/marriage, and do not really comprehend the toll and amount of sacrifice that it will take. Whatever though, you can think what you want, I have to get back to writing a term paper. >_>

its fine let them. its all about attention and finger pointing anyway. a marriage given from the state means nothing. a marriage given by god is sacred.x_Martyr_x

Marriage through state grants many benefits.  What does marriage through a church give you?  A nice ceremony? 

No, what would the gays have then?123625

I dunno, love, maybe?  

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Uh-huh. Again, that is entirely debatable and you're using your own opinion to specify whether something is a fact or not, which, when concerning the opinions the others, is unjust. Until the scientific community has issued exactly when a fetus is considered a human, nobody can confirm whether abortions are acceptable or not. I say we drop this issue since it belongs in another thread, not a thread about gay marriage.

Now, what I would like to ask is why gay marriage is "morally wrong" to you.

battlefront23

Science is of NO relevance to the morality or lack thereof of abortion. Same goes murder, stealing, etc. Science has nothing on morality and I don't even know why the hell so many people (not you specifically but a lot of users here) on GS think science is the end all on every issue. I really don't see why people think abortion is right (except in a few circumstances but even then) It's not right and it never will be. But anyway, what do I base my views on homosexuality? The Bible... as I do all of my other beliefs. Call me brainwashed but I really don't care.

Why believe the Bible's word, though? Since you find it irritating that so many people on these forums use science as a end-all-be-all for every issue, why don't you find it irritating that so many others use the Bible as a end-all-be-all for every issue regarding morality? Why not use your own intelligent human mind to make your own decisions on morality instead of blindly following the word of a religious book, despite how self-important it made itself out to be?

Why would gays want to be as miserable as everyone else? :PGenetic_Code

Actually i'd say that gay couples could live a better marriage, being that there are no gender differences annoying each other.  

Such a law would be virtually impossible to enforce.

But anyways, for Prop 8, it only got passed because the campaign began telling bald-faced lies. Before the whole kindergartners learning about gay marriage malarkey, 'No' was winning in the polls.

>_>

Such a law would be virtually impossible to enforce.

But anyways, for Prop 8, it only got passed because the campaign began telling bald-faced lies. Before the whole kindergartners learning about gay marriage malarkey, 'No' was winning in the polls.

>_>

PannicAtack

Why believe the Bible's word, though? Since you find it irritating that so many people on these forums use science as a end-all-be-all for every issue, why don't you find it irritating that so many others use the Bible as a end-all-be-all for every issue regarding morality? Why not use your own intelligent human mind to make your own decisions on morality instead of blindly following the word of a religious book, despite how self-important it made itself out to be?

-Jiggles-

Science changes, the Bible doesn't. The truth is, I believe what the Bible says not because of what many call "brainwashing" but because of how every instance I've applied Jesus' teaching in my life, I've been successful. At times it was difficult and I obviously don't do all of what He says, but whenever I do, I see a happiness not attained by doing anything else. May sound preachy but I tell you the truth when I say that.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Why believe the Bible's word, though? Since you find it irritating that so many people on these forums use science as a end-all-be-all for every issue, why don't you find it irritating that so many others use the Bible as a end-all-be-all for every issue regarding morality? Why not use your own intelligent human mind to make your own decisions on morality instead of blindly following the word of a religious book, despite how self-important it made itself out to be?

battlefront23

Science changes, the Bible doesn't. The truth is, I believe what the Bible says not because of what many call "brainwashing" but because of how every instance I've applied Jesus' teaching in my life, I've been successful. At times it was difficult and I obviously don't do all of what He says, but whenever I do, I see a happiness not attained by doing anything else. May sound preachy but I tell you the truth when I say that.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

Such a law would be virtually impossible to enforce.

But anyways, for Prop 8, it only got passed because the campaign began telling bald-faced lies. Before the whole kindergartners learning about gay marriage malarkey, 'No' was winning in the polls.

>_>

links136

They also engaged in blackmail. >_>

That had nothing to do with my post. I'm merely pointing out the blatant dishonesty of the 'Yes on 8' campaign.

They also engaged in blackmail. >_>

PannicAtack

Link for the blackmail?

[QUOTE="links136"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

Such a law would be virtually impossible to enforce.

But anyways, for Prop 8, it only got passed because the campaign began telling bald-faced lies. Before the whole kindergartners learning about gay marriage malarkey, 'No' was winning in the polls.

>_>

PannicAtack

They also engaged in blackmail. >_>

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

That had nothing to do with my post. I'm merely pointing out the blatant dishonesty of the 'Yes on 8' campaign.

They also engaged in blackmail. >_>

Genetic_Code

Link for the blackmail?

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Why believe the Bible's word, though? Since you find it irritating that so many people on these forums use science as a end-all-be-all for every issue, why don't you find it irritating that so many others use the Bible as a end-all-be-all for every issue regarding morality? Why not use your own intelligent human mind to make your own decisions on morality instead of blindly following the word of a religious book, despite how self-important it made itself out to be?

battlefront23

Science changes, the Bible doesn't. The truth is, I believe what the Bible says not because of what many call "brainwashing" but because of how every instance I've applied Jesus' teaching in my life, I've been successful. At times it was difficult and I obviously don't do all of what He says, but whenever I do, I see a happiness not attained by doing anything else. May sound preachy but I tell you the truth when I say that.

Science changes often, but it's always for the better. The scientific community is constantly progressing and gaining new knowledge of the world around us each day, along with creating new technologies that benefits mankind all across the world. If anything, the fact that science "changes" is a good thing.

Using your example of the Bible helping you through every day situations, though, you stated that you applied Jesus' teachings to your life and thus have been successful there-of. How do you know it was the teachings of Jesus and/or his disciples that helped you through all these situations throughout your life? How do you know it wasn't your own intelligence and willpower that helped pull you through the hard times? How do you know that these teachings you follow are perfect for the ever-changing world around us?

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"][QUOTE="-Austin-"]

 

It would probably increase the odds of staying together.....

-Austin-

You tell me that when your 30 and i'll except it's your view.

If you can't even spell the word accept, I don't see why I care what you think.

Some people don't like marrying women who have slept with the whole town.

C'mon, the guy has a valid point. It would probably decrease the odds of them staying together because they haven't experienced it with others, and I'm sure once they've done it with each other the idea of having it with other people will seem more tempting. If you'd done it with a fair few people the idea of having sex with lots of different people would seem more mundane and you'd be ready to settle down.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Why believe the Bible's word, though? Since you find it irritating that so many people on these forums use science as a end-all-be-all for every issue, why don't you find it irritating that so many others use the Bible as a end-all-be-all for every issue regarding morality? Why not use your own intelligent human mind to make your own decisions on morality instead of blindly following the word of a religious book, despite how self-important it made itself out to be?

links136

Science changes, the Bible doesn't. The truth is, I believe what the Bible says not because of what many call "brainwashing" but because of how every instance I've applied Jesus' teaching in my life, I've been successful. At times it was difficult and I obviously don't do all of what He says, but whenever I do, I see a happiness not attained by doing anything else. May sound preachy but I tell you the truth when I say that.

Exactly. Man has screwed up science so much we have to constantly revise our own theories and never can provide perfectly correct explanations, even concerning physical phenoma that is observed with our own eyes.

I support gay marriage.Thagypsy

me, too.

it amazed me how many people are willing to strip away the rights and freedoms of others while claiming to live in the land of the free.   

[QUOTE="Thagypsy"]I support gay marriage.-starman-

me, too.

it amazed me how many people are willing to strip away the rights and freedoms of others while claiming to live in the land of the free.   

Yes, just goes to show you how hypocritical people are.  

Science changes often, but it's always for the better. The scientific community is constantly progressing and gaining new knowledge of the world around us each day, along with creating new technologies that benefits mankind all across the world. If anything, the fact that science "changes" is a good thing.

I know and I'm not debating that science isn't good for the world.All I'm saying is it holds no ground in issues of morality; it can't anyway.

Using your example of the Bible helping you through every day situations, though, you stated that you applied Jesus' teachings to your life and thus have been successful there-of. How do you know it was the teachings of Jesus and/or his disciples that helped you through all these situations throughout your life? How do you know it wasn't your own intelligence and willpower that helped pull you through the hard times? How do you know that these teachings you follow are perfect for the ever-changing world around us?

BecauseI've been on the other side of the spectrum; I tried my own ways to get people to like me (particularly a certain someone) and it never worked. I tried what Jesus put forward: loving your enemies, loving those in sin, compassion, etc. and I've been happier ever since. These teachings in the Bible have been applied in many people's lives ever since the Bible has been published and those who actually followed what it teaches were happy people. Now, can I present a stat or link about that? No, but I know that the happiness I feel right now is most likely the same of the saints and martyrs (RIP) who followed Jesus' way of life until their dying breath.

 

-Jiggles-

Science changes often, but it's always for the better. The scientific community is constantly progressing and gaining new knowledge of the world around us each day, along with creating new technologies that benefits mankind all across the world. If anything, the fact that science "changes" is a good thing.

Using your example of the Bible helping you through every day situations, though, you stated that you applied Jesus' teachings to your life and thus have been successful there-of. How do you know it was the teachings of Jesus and/or his disciples that helped you through all these situations throughout your life? How do you know it wasn't your own intelligence and willpower that helped pull you through the hard times? How do you know that these teachings you follow are perfect for the ever-changing world around us?

-Jiggles-

Wow, you understand how to use the Socratic method of questioning. I have an extremely liberal atheist professor who uses this every class to get people to think about and change their beliefs. If anything questions like this cause many believers to grow in their faith rather than get angry.

[QUOTE="CyberElite85"]I don't understand why homosexuals are treated like second class citizens, and don't have equal marriage rights. Makes absolutely no sense to me, and I find it sickening that people are actually bothered by two people of the same gender marrying eachother. It does not affect them, and is none of their business in the first place. That's just imo though, and I don't really care about religion either. ;) Huell_Howser

When I have kids, I don't want to deal with them asking me why men are having sex with men and women are having sex with women. Kids should be learning about the birds and the bees, not the birds and the birds or the bees and the bees. And you're exactly right, their preference is none of my business and that's exactly how it should stay. They can do whatever they want behind closed doors.

They shouldn't have to be behind closed doors. Kids should learn a little bit about everything so they obtain more knowledge, and have a more open mind when looking at things. imo.

[QUOTE="mstc_Q"]

I'd vote for it.

But not just because the Bible says it's bad; children out of wedlock causes a host of problems.

Bourbons3

Heh, reminds me of a certain line from Calvin and Hobbes comics; "If your friends are contractual, you don't have any"

[QUOTE="Huell_Howser"]

[QUOTE="CyberElite85"]I don't understand why homosexuals are treated like second class citizens, and don't have equal marriage rights. Makes absolutely no sense to me, and I find it sickening that people are actually bothered by two people of the same gender marrying eachother. It does not affect them, and is none of their business in the first place. That's just imo though, and I don't really care about religion either. ;) CyberElite85

When I have kids, I don't want to deal with them asking me why men are having sex with men and women are having sex with women. Kids should be learning about the birds and the bees, not the birds and the birds or the bees and the bees. And you're exactly right, their preference is none of my business and that's exactly how it should stay. They can do whatever they want behind closed doors.

They shouldn't have to be behind closed doors. Kids should learn a little bit about everything so they obtain more knowledge, and have a more open mind when looking at things. imo.

[QUOTE="Huell_Howser"]

[QUOTE="CyberElite85"]I don't understand why homosexuals are treated like second class citizens, and don't have equal marriage rights. Makes absolutely no sense to me, and I find it sickening that people are actually bothered by two people of the same gender marrying eachother. It does not affect them, and is none of their business in the first place. That's just imo though, and I don't really care about religion either. ;) CyberElite85

When I have kids, I don't want to deal with them asking me why men are having sex with men and women are having sex with women. Kids should be learning about the birds and the bees, not the birds and the birds or the bees and the bees. And you're exactly right, their preference is none of my business and that's exactly how it should stay. They can do whatever they want behind closed doors.

They shouldn't have to be behind closed doors. Kids should learn a little bit about everything so they obtain more knowledge, and have a more open mind when looking at things. imo.

Being open minded is certainly good to an extent, but when open-mindedness takes a priority over personal morals, beliefs, and ideals, I think it has gone too far. All I know is that once gays get marriage rights, they'll soon be demanding the right heterosexual couples have to adopt and raise children and I fear the future of our society if that ever happens.

[QUOTE="CyberElite85"][QUOTE="Huell_Howser"]

 

When I have kids, I don't want to deal with them asking me why men are having sex with men and women are having sex with women. Kids should be learning about the birds and the bees, not the birds and the birds or the bees and the bees. And you're exactly right, their preference is none of my business and that's exactly how it should stay. They can do whatever they want behind closed doors.

Huell_Howser

They shouldn't have to be behind closed doors. Kids should learn a little bit about everything so they obtain more knowledge, and have a more open mind when looking at things. imo.

Being open minded is certainly good to an extent, but when open-mindedness takes a priority over personal morals, beliefs, and ideals, I think it has gone too far. All I know is that once gays get marriage rights, they'll soon be demanding the right heterosexual couples have to adopt and raise children and I fear the future of our society if that ever happens.

Wow, this is like a super topic... gay marriage, abortion, and religious debate all rolled into one. :P

Anyways, I support gay marriage and abortion, and laugh at people who take the Bible seriously.

Wow, this is like a super topic... gay marriage, abortion, and religious debate all rolled into one. :P

Anyways, I support gay marriage and abortion, and laugh at people who take the Bible seriously.

smarb001

So you laugh at 1/3 of the world, eh? Maybe not every Christian takes everything in the Bible seriously, but these type of comments are unneccesary. 

[QUOTE="smarb001"]

Wow, this is like a super topic... gay marriage, abortion, and religious debate all rolled into one. :P

Anyways, I support gay marriage and abortion, and laugh at people who take the Bible seriously.

battlefront23

So you laugh at 1/3 of the world, eh? Maybe not every Christian takes everything in the Bible seriously, but these type of comments are unneccesary. 

Yeah, pretty much. Oh and Republicans as well. 

Gotta spice up the super topic with some politics!

[QUOTE="links136"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

 

Science changes, the Bible doesn't. The truth is, I believe what the Bible says not because of what many call "brainwashing" but because of how every instance I've applied Jesus' teaching in my life, I've been successful. At times it was difficult and I obviously don't do all of what He says, but whenever I do, I see a happiness not attained by doing anything else. May sound preachy but I tell you the truth when I say that.

Huell_Howser

Exactly. Man has screwed up science so much we have to constantly revise our own theories and never can provide perfectly correct explanations, even concerning physical phenoma that is observed with our own eyes.

So if I were to eat these shrooms?

And anybody that takes religion over science really ends all of their credibility.

[QUOTE="Huell_Howser"]When I plug something in, I don't try to put two plugs together nor do I attempt to put the outlets together. Plugs fit into outlets. That's how it works.battlefront23

I like this analogy. A lot actually. ;)

I agree.