Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep ~1000 Jobs in U.S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?partner=msft_msn

"From the earliest days of his campaign, Donald J. Trump made keeping manufacturing jobs in the United States his signature economic issue, and the decision by Carrier, the big air-conditioner company, to move over 2,000 of them from Indiana to Mexico was a tailor-made talking point for him on the stump. On Thursday, Mr. Trump and Mike Pence, Indiana’s governor and the vice-president elect, plan to appear at Carrier’s Indianapolis plant to announce they’ve struck a deal with the company to keep a majority of the jobs in the state, according to officials with the transition team as well as Carrier."

Well that was fast.

People living in USA should be focus on America first because other countries has their own nationalist policies e.g. India's "Make In India", China's "Made in China 2025" and 'etc'.

China doesn't care if USA runs with massive trade deficits.

India doesn't care if USA runs with massive trade deficits.

While left wing progressive establishment's dislikes nationalist polices, other countries doesn't care about left wing progressive establishment's values.

References

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_in_India

http://english.gov.cn/2016special/madeinchina2025/

http://alexanderhiggins.com/first-ford-now-carrier-trump-saved-another-factory-2000-jobs/

Donald Trump has pledged to repeal NAFTA in its entirety and instead negotiate bi-lateral trade deals that are more favorable for the United States.

Trump plans to undo Bill Clinton's signature policy.

PS; Trump is fine with free trade deals with countries with similar economic development e.g. UK.

Did he actually do this one, or is this another lie like the Ford plant?

I believe Carrier themselves made the announcement giving credit, but i think credit goes more towards the military contracts Carrier's parent company has with the U.S. goverment. But this seems like a real "thing", this time.

yup

"While Carrier will forfeit some $65 million a year in savings the move was supposed to generate, that’s a small price to pay to avoid the public relations damage from moving the jobs as well as a possible threat to United Technologies’ far-larger military contracting business.

Roughly 10 percent of United Technologies’ $56 billion in revenue comes from the federal government; the Pentagon is its single largest customer. With $4 billion in profit last year, the company has the flexibility to find the savings elsewhere."

Yeah they didn't want to lose that contract.

So what now.... 'Make America China Again'?

America is transitioning from an Industrial, manufacturing-based economy to a Information-Age, service-based economy. It's a good thing, but unemployment is an inevitable side effect. It'll work itself out.

Germany and South Korea has strong manufacture sectors. Your post doesn't address the reason on why HRC lost the election.

USA's IT sector is getting gutted by out sourcing via India.

+1 for Trump administration.

+2

@ronvalencia: Sorry. I didn't realize this thread was about why HRC lost the election.

This is a very small, short-term solution anyway. These are skilled labor jobs with no room for advancement - just assembly and fabrication. They'll just move the jobs when it's no longer in their favor to keep them here.

Don't get me wrong, I like to use local machine shops rather than going to other countries. Both have their benefits.

Let's just keep those big military projects going. That's where I make my bread. Mechanical design services.

Sounds nice on paper but they are basically bribing them with tax money to stay:

"The state of Indiana also plans to give economic incentives to Carrier as part of the deal to stay, according to local officials."

Economic Incentives = Tax Breaks. The money still has to come from somewhere and in this case it seems like the Indiana tax payers are going to eat it.

-Byshop

Your argument will keep the Dems in the wilderness. Rustbelt states are getting left behind.

you can bribe a company here and there and dangle some carrots to save some jobs symbolically.. but like the nyt article states it's not a long term economic policy.

it'll be interesting to see how much other "picking winners and losers" the new administration does as that was something obama was berated for relentlessly by the right when he took office.

..... 15% to 20% of the nation's total debt is based around one of those military projects, of a jet that can barely fly.... And you want to come here and talk about how it's inefficient to go about that in ensuring a better standard of living for Americans? While some how defending one of the most irresponsible use of funds in our nation to date? I would rather the US government used that money to ensure jobs in the United States so people can actually have a living, than waste trillions of dollars in a jet that can barely freaking fly..

@ronvalencia:

Dems/Reps/Libs/Greens.....

They're all the same to me. I'm on America's team. Nobody was ever correct by being one-sided. As with everything in life, our country needs balance.

That being said.... I don't think we should go around offering tax breaks to companies just to get them to keep a few jobs in the country for a few more years. All it does is postpone the inevitable.

IMO what we really need to do is stop allowing these companies to set up phony offices in places like Switzerland with a few employees to get around the tax laws. We'd probably eliminate the national debt in a few decades.

Jobs will come and go as they will.

Hell if this is a bribe in which they HAVE to do this to get it, I am all for it.. Its better than the "deals" years back.. Such as GE which the government not only gave them 0% taxes but they gave them money, a year they posted record profits, a year that they CUT jobs in the United States.. This would be like me allowing a person to live in my home under the conditions that they would do chores around the house, but instead they don't and are still allowed to live there..

http://fortune.com/2016/11/30/donald-trump-carrier-deal-jobs/

Hayes explained that the jobs were lower-wage and had high turnover, and the move was necessary to keep the plant competitive, according to the source. He said the plan would save the company $65 million a year.

President-elect Trump replied that those savings would be dwarfed by the savings UTC would enjoy from corporate tax-rate reductions he planned to put in place.

@sSubZerOo: meh. technology trickles down to the consumer and most of those gov't contracts require materials be sourced and fabricated in the US.

What's the other 80-85% of the debt?

Wars buddy.. We spent trillions of dollars in borrowed funds for Iraq and Afghanistan as well.... Oh the technology trickles down to the user? Tell me what does a plane that can barely fly, that costs over $1.5 trillion dollars do for the United States? The Pentagon also has "lost track of" if you can believe it of upwards to 8.5 trillion dollars linked to these bullshit projects.. Guys want to talk about welfare? There it is, a bunch of bullshit projects like this plane that has failed horribly and cost the tax payers trillions.. Meanwhile all these government contractor companies get nice and fat sucking off the governments boob.

There it is.. And technology trickled down? By that logic the United States should be the most advanced in technology and hardware over all, we aren't.. Our infrastructure is horribly lacking compared to other first world countries..

@sSubZerOo: yeah... tech trickles down. GPS is a good example.

If you're referring to the new F-35 project. Yeah it's a slow plane. It can take off vertically and is probably one of the most advanced pieces of tech to ever be created. What's your point? It's not supposed to be a nimble aircraft. I know it's way over budget; blame Lockheed-Martin for that I guess.

You are right, our infrastructure could use some fixing up... what's that? legit available jobs?

My point is if you want to look at the incompetence of the spending the f35 is it.. We have reports that it can not fly during night, that its stealth capabilities are already worthless against the top military powers.. Our military contractors are a assortment of welfare recipients with pet projects based around a military industrial complex completely unneccesary at such a level in this current time.... People are more likely to get killed from our failing health system, than anything coming from a external threat currently.

@sSubZerOo: And my point was that incompetence of the spending is being spent in the US, creating and fueling many US jobs.

I'm not going to defend the abhorrent state of our healthcare and education. I do, however, think we can have all three: great education, good healthcare, and cool military projects. I'm not in charge of the government's budget.

which is nice.. at some point however UTC will see that they can STILL save another $65M on top of the proposed tax savings.

the US could do away will ALL taxes and corporations would still outsource jobs to cheaper locations.

their shareholders demand EPS growth. always.

Example of China's business environment leverage policies. If a foreign business wants to use China's rare earth materials, that foreign company has to partner with a local Chinese company(1). To create the leverage, China created a near monopoly with rare earth market. China attempted a similar situation with steel and US and EU has countered it.

1. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703321004575427050544485366

BEIJING—China is cautiously using rare-earth resources as bait for foreign investment that could bring in sophisticated technologies that it needs.

Industry and government officials have begun talking about a Chinese government plan to offer access to its rare-earth resources—which are used in products such as hybrid-car batteries and missiles and are under strict export restrictions—to get companies including electronics manufacturers and auto makers to set up rare-earth-processing plants in China.

My point, US government should create a situation that creates a leverage to get businesses to stay in the US. The Chinese was smart with creating a leverage and has proper strategic plans to reach it's goals..

Military projects are not suppose to be "cool" they are suppose to ensure the defense of the nation.. Your comment is ironic because we can basically point that to military projects, as the golden standard what incompetent spending looks like..

F-35A Block 3I can fly during the night. Modern stealth is not a Star Trek cloaking device and it's only a measure to reduce radar signature which reduces enemy radar's effective detection range.

Without installed stealth materials, F-35A AF-02 unit is not stealthy.

Lockheed Martin Corporation's year 2010 stealth fiber material patent that covers VHF radar band

http://www.google.com/patents/US20100271253#v=onepage&q&f=false

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

In some aspects, embodiments disclosed herein relate to a radar absorbing composite that includes a (CNT)-infused fiber material disposed in at least a portion of a matrix material. The composite is capable of absorbing radar in a frequency range from between about 0.10 Megahertz to about 60 Gigahertz. The CNT-infused fiber material forms a first layer that reduces radar reflectance and a second layer that dissipates the energy of the absorbed radar.

Lockheed Martin's year 2010 stealth fiber material patent is effective from 0.1 MHz to 60 Ghz which is included all VHF, L-band, S-Band, X-band, Ku-band

P-Band – 30-100 cm (1-0.3 GHz)

L-Band – 15-30 cm (2-1 GHz)

S-Band – 8-15 cm (4-2 GHz)

C-Band – 4-8 cm (8-4 GHz)

X-Band – 2.5-4 cm (12-8 GHz)

K-Band – Ku: 1.7-2.5 cm (18-12 GHz);

Ka-Band: 0.75-1.2 cm (40-27 GHz).

Lockheed Martin reveals F-35 to feature nanocomposite structures

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lockheed-martin-reveals-f-35-to-feature-nanocomposite-357223/

Lockheed Martin has revealed the F-35 Lightning II will be the first mass-produced aircraft to integrate structural nanocomposites in non-load bearing airframe components.

A thermoset epoxy reinforced by carbon nanotubes will replace carbon fibre as the material used to produce F-35 wingtip fairings beginning with low rate initial production (LRIP)-4 aircraft, said Travis Earles, a manager for corporate nanotechnology initiatives.

Meanwhile, the same carbon nanotube reinforced polymer (CNRP) material is being considered to replace about 100 components made with other composites or metals throughout the F-35's airframe, he said.

The shift to CNRP as an airframe material has been anticipated ever since carbon nanotubes were discovered in 1991. It is widely considered one of the strongest materials ever invented - several times stronger than carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP), yet lighter by about 25-30%.

http://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/kampfly/2016/03/01/f-35-i-naerkamp-hva-har-jeg-laert-sa-langt-the-f-35-in-a-dogfight-what-have-i-learned-so-far/

English translation near the bottom. Norwegian F-35 Pilot counters David Axe's controversial dogfighting’ report i.e. incident with F-16D vs F-35A AF-02 unit.

If you read http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/666042.pdf at page 25 shows the breakdown for $916.3 billion (JPO) or $1020 billion (CAPE) estimate

$916.3 / 56 years = $16.36 billion per year.

$1020.3 / 56 years = $18.21 billion per year.

----

On 21 August 2013 C-Span reported that Congressional Quarterly and the Government Accountability Office were indicating the "total estimated program cost now is $400b—nearly twice the initial cost". The current investment was documented as approximately $50 billion. The projected $316 billion cost in development and procurement spending was estimated through 2037 at an average of $12.6 billion per year.

-----

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_welfare_spending_40.html

F-35's about $16.36 billion per year allocation is relatively small when compared to $972 billion per year on social security and $605 billion per year on Medicare (Net).

http://max937.wixsite.com/maxmedia#!1-Million-Dollars-Soccer-Field-At-Guantanamo-Bay-Trump-Is-Not-Happy/cjds/56a94eaf0cf22a80b02c1ecc

$1 Million Dollars Soccer Field At Guantanamo Bay: Trump Is Not Happy

The dusty, 28,000-square-foot soccer field includes a soft gravel walking track, security cameras and a high fence topped with razor wire. It is expected to open after goal posts and latrines are added. Woods said the cost of the recreation yard was high because every piece of equipment has to be imported by barge or plane to the remote base in southeast Cuba. The Guantanamo detention camp holds 171 men.

I don’t know how anybody with a brain could disagree with Trump here. It’s actually so preposterous to believe 1 million dollars was spent on a prisoner soccer field that I borderline don’t even know if what he’s saying is true. I mean the Government really spent 1 million dollars of taxpayer money on a fucking prisoner soccer field? Come on. That can’t be real. But I don’t even care. The only reason I blogged this is because it’s a microcosm of what makes Trump so great.

Nah, you don't have to make others pay more, you just cut things like Medicare and Social Security.

Not for Trump's generation, though. They've made it clear they'll force their children and grandchildren to pay for them and then end the programs after that.

That's still a form of the "taxpayers paying for it", just not with their wallets.

-Byshop

Agreed. It all has to come from somewhere, eventually.

**** yeah they're supposed to be cool! I've worked with some of the people who develop them.... Some bad ass motherfuckers who try to replicate enemy technology and outsmart it, to describe one group. Yeah yeah I get it, they're the problem. They spend a shit-ton. No one cares.

Ugh... Just drop it. I didn't even disagree with you about overspending. And it's not like the work is being outsourced. I'm not defending or controlling their budget. I just make my end-of-the-supply chain money.

I live in the Indy area and reserve judgement until I see details of this deal. What kind of tax breaks are involved? Will Indiana taxpayers be subsidizing these saved jobs via massive tax breaks? What kind of wages will the workers retain? What kind of duration is guaranteed? Is United Technology just going to pull this stunt a year from now?

The Indianapolis plant was going to lose 1400 jobs, not 2000, and 1,000 of them have been saved. A similar Carrier plant that manufactures electronics for Carrier HVAC units, in Huntington, Indiana, is still moving to Mexico. Frankly speaking, Huntington, which is a small city, needs the jobs a lot more than Indianapolis.

Boy have these forums changed over the last year. Turned into a political war. Interesting too because before Trump won the primaries, things were pretty 1-sided against Trump.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/28/news/companies/donald-trump-carrier-jobs/

United Technologies' filings say 85% of the cash on its balance sheet, or about $6 billion, remains with its overseas subsidiaries due to tax issues.

"Our intention is to reinvest these earnings permanently or to repatriate the earnings only when it is tax effective," the company said in its most recent 10K filing.

For money earned abroad, Trump's 10 percent tax specifically targets Ireland's 12.5 percent tax. That's $6 billion USD sitting outside USA and foreign countries has this tax benefit.

This.

Sounds like good propaganda for Trump.

I will give this one to Trump. It's good he was able to save some of the jobs that were going to be outsourced. It's unfortunate that taxpayers are going to have to foot the bill in the end, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Hopefully these are jobs that wont be automated in the near future.

These forums have leaned left for a long time. This and other forums I visit where political discussions are allowed are filed with vile diatribes against those with more conservative values. It smacks of elitism as well as hypocrisy. They are supposedly tolerant, but as long as you disagree with their message, you are the enemy and a whole bunch of names to describe them. They are condescending in a very unflattering way and forget that to reach people, you have to talk with others, not talk at them. They forget that they need to listen too, but as long as their mouth is engaged, they cannot do such.

I stated previously, even if not here, that this election is similar to another election in which the nominees for President were very unpopular and that the incumbent party lost. People fail to pay attention to history. The party that lost then is the same party that lost now. One would think that they would learn, but it is obvious that they haven't.

Thats more then enough then what Obama and leftists were planning to do with those jobs, move them to Mexico.

So now Cons want government to play a role. My how times have changed. It use to be keep government out our lives, now its please save us government.

That line of thinking is why the Democrats got their asses handed to them this election cycle.

People don't care who does it, they just want someone to fix things.

@topgunmv: Yeah, as long as its not a black man doing the change. Fackin alt-right scum, they discuss me. I shat on them for breakfast.

They probably have better things to do than discuss you.

@topgunmv: Im sure they do, like robbing from the poor like the scum they are.

I feel like Trump got played.

So, the updated news today seems to be that this deal will still result in 1,300 jobs moving to Mexico. Also, the 1,100 retained jobs will end up costing the Indiana tax payers $7 million over a ten year period.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-gives-7-million-in-tax-breaks-to-keep-carrier-jobs-1480608461

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy for anyone whose employment is positively effected by this deal, even if I question the viability of the deal itself. In my job, I have to staff both short term and long term projects such as build or dev teams or even sustained support organizations. In that position, I -have- to use offshore resources for some roles or my proposal won't be competitive. If I don't, the next company will and they'll win the work instead of us and the positions will still go offshore. Many of the companies who are my customers like the idea of US employment, but I have yet to meet one who is willing to tell me "yes, I'll pay 10 times more for my support org if we can make sure that it's all US based personnel". I don't pretend to have a solution to this, but this is one of the realities of the situation, especially with IT jobs where telecommuting is a regular part of the industry.

-Byshop

That's really the rub, right? Free trade has net GDP benefits, but there are winners and losers.

And the labor market in the US, indeed the developed world, is at a price disadvantage to it's developing counterparts by a significant margin. We have not done a good job of seeing to it that free trade benefits the population at large.

LOL I saw that too and laughed at the typo.