Precisely what should have happened. The international organization supports the existence of both historical countries, while the independent force cedes some of it's foreign lobbying control in matters that don't concern it. Sounds logical to me.CrimzonTidethe international organisation you speak of , is also biased against me. the Palestinians can basically pass any resolution they want in the UN and its various sub organisations, the Muslim/Arab world will almost always vote for anything they ask , the 3rd world also supports them generally speaking. and yet, if that organisation supported my existence, it would also do something regarding those rockets being fired towards Israel at this moment, . instead it spends most of its time blaming Israel for everyhing (for some odd reason , the UN human rights council spends more time on Israel than on any other country combined , which is biased in the extreme)
UNESCO recognizes Palestine as a State, US withdraws funding
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] the international organisation you speak of , is also biased against me. the Palestinians can basically pass any resolution they want in the UN and its various sub organisations, the Muslim/Arab world will almost always vote for anything they ask , the 3rd world also supports them generally speaking. and yet, if that organisation supported my existence, it would also do something regarding those rockets being fired towards Israel at this moment, . instead it spends most of its time blaming Israel for everyhing (for some odd reason , the UN human rights council spends more time on Israel than on any other country combined , which is biased in the extreme)CrimzonTideBoth sides are guilty of so many crimes that it's beyond mention. I don't think that you can say with a straight face that Israel is innocent here. That being said, the US government is decidedly pro Israel, and has been since it's formation. This is mainly due to the large lobbying powers of individuals and groups. What you need to understand is that public opinion is often going to support Palestine. A group of people trying to get physical land back that was taken and defined by law as Israel less than 70 years ago. Can you not see the appeal in that? Why would the Arab world not support their movements?
in a war , nobody is innocent, but thats not the UN agenda, the UN agenda is to blame israel for everything under the sun.
it doesn't bother me what the Palestinians (which are hardly a cohesive political unit at the moment) want, they want a state? sure, I would be quite happy for them to get one, but Im not signing my own death warrant in the process, which is what the world is asking me to do according to you.
take care of my concerns, if you want me to to agree with a Palestinain state 100%
and no, I can not see the appeal of it, since that appeal of it is my death, unless you or somebody else can provide me with a solution to my concerns.
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] that I can respect, at least its not the "lets hurt Israel because its Israel" type of argument I occasionally hear.Darkman2007
Or what about, lets not support Israel when they are in fact committing war crimes and breaking international law for the past few decades?
so are the PalestiniansThe Palestinians are not supported by the United States, never were.
, and yet you seem to be quite happy to give them money
What money is that? The US does not gave Palestinians any form of money what so ever.
, actually, judging from your comments, everything is Israel's fault really Im surprised you haven't blamed Israel for everything in the world from
Drawing baseless accusations.. Israel is as much the aggressor as they are the victim.. There is no "just" side.. The United States should not be supporting either leadership unquestioningly..
, you certainly don't stand up for human rights I can assure you of that, if you did you would be honest.
The hell is that suppose to mean? Where did I say Palestinian leadership is a bed of roses? Oh thats right I didn't.
heck between Israel supposidly controlling the US via AIPAC
Where did I say controlling? What I poitned out is they hold huge political Clout.. The Zionist party within the United States.. That is why the US has been nothing but passive to Israeli policies at best.
and Israel being the evil state of the Middle East
Where did I say that? Oh thats right no where.. I just think that the United States should not unquestioningably support Israel, especially when they have committed war crimes, human rights violations and the like..
, Im surprised you haven't blamed us for the AIDS virus and 9/11 too.
Thanks for the great laugh.
so are the Palestinians[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
Or what about, lets not support Israel when they are in fact committing war crimes and breaking international law for the past few decades?
sSubZerOo
The Palestinians are not supported by the United States, never were.
, and yet you seem to be quite happy to give them money
What money is that? The US does not gave Palestinians any form of money what so ever.
, actually, judging from your comments, everything is Israel's fault really Im surprised you haven't blamed Israel for everything in the world from
Drawing baseless accusations.. Israel is as much the aggressor as they are the victim.. There is no "just" side.. The United States should not be supporting either leadership unquestioningly..
, you certainly don't stand up for human rights I can assure you of that, if you did you would be honest.
The hell is that suppose to mean? Where did I say Palestinian leadership is a bed of roses? Oh thats right I didn't.
heck between Israel supposidly controlling the US via AIPAC
Where did I say controlling? What I poitned out is they hold huge political Clout.. The Zionist party within the United States.. That is why the US has been nothing but passive to Israeli policies at best.
and Israel being the evil state of the Middle East
Where did I say that? Oh thats right no where.. I just think that the United States should not unquestioningably support Israel, especially when they have committed war crimes, human rights violations and the like..
, Im surprised you haven't blamed us for the AIDS virus and 9/11 too.
Thanks for the great laugh.
yes, you did in fact blame Israel for everything, if youre claiming to be fair and honest in criticising everybody where they deserve , you would, but you don't, in fact, Ive never read one criticism from you about any other state other than Israel. just because you don't say something, doesn't mean thats what you think or don't think , and your accusations of Israel, which are constant, while there is little or no criticism of anybody else, indicate an entirely different opinion from what youre talking about. oh and that "no aid to the PA" claim you made is untrue http://foreignassistance.gov/OU.aspx?OUID=389&FY=2012 according to the US government itself, the PA gets 500 million dollars a year (though at one point it was a billion) so yes, I was correct in saying youre biased, unless you can actually show some balance in your criticism , which you certainly haven't[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]yes, you did in fact blame Israel for everything,[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] so are the Palestinians
The Palestinians are not supported by the United States, never were.
, and yet you seem to be quite happy to give them money
What money is that? The US does not gave Palestinians any form of money what so ever.
, actually, judging from your comments, everything is Israel's fault really Im surprised you haven't blamed Israel for everything in the world from
Drawing baseless accusations.. Israel is as much the aggressor as they are the victim.. There is no "just" side.. The United States should not be supporting either leadership unquestioningly..
, you certainly don't stand up for human rights I can assure you of that, if you did you would be honest.
The hell is that suppose to mean? Where did I say Palestinian leadership is a bed of roses? Oh thats right I didn't.
heck between Israel supposidly controlling the US via AIPAC
Where did I say controlling? What I poitned out is they hold huge political Clout.. The Zionist party within the United States.. That is why the US has been nothing but passive to Israeli policies at best.
and Israel being the evil state of the Middle East
Where did I say that? Oh thats right no where.. I just think that the United States should not unquestioningably support Israel, especially when they have committed war crimes, human rights violations and the like..
, Im surprised you haven't blamed us for the AIDS virus and 9/11 too.
Thanks for the great laugh.
Darkman2007
Please PLEASE point this out, no where have I said this.. Let me repeat what I said again.. I SUPPORT NEITHER SIDE.. Especially when my countries government is UNQUESTIONINGLY supporting one regardless of what they do.. READ IT ONCE.. Read it TWICE.. Then think Reading comprehension.. This is what I have said and what I say.. If you can't handle this well we are done here.
if youre claiming to be fair and honest in criticising everybody where they deserve
Please name a country I can go down the list to whats wrong with them.. I for instance highly dislike the support the US gives to Saudi Arabia for their oil regardless of the human rights violations and what not..
, you would, but you don't, in fact, Ive never read one criticism from you about any other state other than Israel.
Thats great yet again ancedotal evidence of what you have seen or haven't seen isn't putting past the fact that I have already pointed out that I do not defend either side.. Both leaderships I would not defend in a million years..
just because you don't say something, doesn't mean thats what you think or don't think
Well then why should I even bother talking to you if you don't believe me what I said.. You basically painted a clear picture that you DO NOT care what you have said what so ever.
, and your accusations of Israel, which are constant, while there is little or no criticism of anybody else,
Like I said we are not unquesitoningly supporting any other country to the lengths we are Israel.. Nor have I ever defended countries like Iran, Syria etc as some how a bed of roses.
indicate an entirely different opinion from what youre talking about. oh and that "no aid to the PA" claim you made is untrue http://foreignassistance.gov/OU.aspx?OUID=389&FY=2012
What you have poitned out is humanitarian aid and goal based finances.. This is NO WHERE CLOSE to the support the US gives to Israel financially in which they not only sell military hardware to them at a discounted price but give them no string attached to their overall finances.. The the US sure as hell does not give money to the PLO, if you seriously think they do.. Your smoking something quite strong.
according to the US government itself, the PA gets 500 million dollars a year (though at one point it was a billion) so yes, I was correct in saying youre biased, unless you can actually show some balance in your criticism , which you certainly haven't
Less spending doesn't bother me....LJS9502_basic
Ditto.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Less spending doesn't bother me....airshocker
Ditto.
I would have to agree.. The only spending I woudl support across seas is humanitarian aid and that would be based upon NEED rather economic or political important.
[QUOTE="sircyrus"]
Much of the world would disagree you with on the settlements not being illegal. Even the Israeli laws consider them illegal, hence why Netanyahu announced 2 weeks ago that they're going to look into finding a way to legalize the settlement outposts.
And if Israel said they'd freeze their settlement construction, why did they announce new settlement construction more than once in recent months? The peace talks were derailed 2 years ago when the week before the talks were supposed to begin, Israel announced new settlement construction knowing full well that the Palestinians would be ticked off. They intentionally sabotaged the talks before they even started, and are preventing them from being able to come back to the table.In regards to the attacks, I think you're confusing the PA with Hamas.
And as the leaked negotiation documents showed, it isn't the PA who is being uncooperative and unwilling to negotiate. Quite the opposite. Even the US is criticizing Israel for it's settlements derailing the peace process.Darkman2007
and yet, you cannot answer my question , what happens when the rockets land on Tel Aviv, which will happen if Israel leaves the West Bank just like that, it happend in Gaza, and it will happen in the West Bank.
and then people wonder why the Israeli public can be skeptical about these things, the world is basically tells us "you all can die for all we care, since we can't be bothered solving your problem"
youre talking about the Palestinians getting "ticked off" due to settlement building, well we get "ticked off" because of rockets that are landing in Israel as we speak , were "ticked off" that half the Palestinian government essentially says we don't exist (thats when they don't spout off propeganda about Jews on TV)
Alright then explain this, Hamas and the PLF agrreed to a no fire treaty brokered by Egypt just yestereday. within 8 hours ( in which no rockets were fired) Isreal bombed a group which they THOUGHT were getting ready to fire rockets. There was no proof they were going to fire the rockets as they were apparently on thier way to the site. Pretty hard to prove they were going to launch some rockets and not go to eat some Humus and Falafel. Isreal Has broken every single truce ever proposed ( back in 07, in 08, and in 09, and yet again now.) Hamas has held up thier side a few time (not always but a majority of the time Hamas and the PLF have held up thier sides to an armistice only for it to be broken by Isreal.) So in reality What is the guarantee that isreal would follow any truce set for by Hamas and not bomb Gaza out of Paranoia? Because that is the case 50% of the time. Also, Why is the blockade getting tighter? in 07 21 miles were allowed to be fished then after the blockade the number shrunk to 6 and was half to 3 miles. now any fishing boat out of 3 miles will be confiscated or fired upon ( 40 boats were fired upon in 09 alone) so The argument goes both way, how can i be sure that Gaza won't be maulled and chocked based on Isreal's word? in the Palestine papers it reiterates how much Isreal isn't willing to negotiate The PA never declined to a peace offer since 2001 Its been Isreal who constantly pulled out when an agreement was near.[QUOTE="sircyrus"]
Much of the world would disagree you with on the settlements not being illegal. Even the Israeli laws consider them illegal, hence why Netanyahu announced 2 weeks ago that they're going to look into finding a way to legalize the settlement outposts.
And if Israel said they'd freeze their settlement construction, why did they announce new settlement construction more than once in recent months? The peace talks were derailed 2 years ago when the week before the talks were supposed to begin, Israel announced new settlement construction knowing full well that the Palestinians would be ticked off. They intentionally sabotaged the talks before they even started, and are preventing them from being able to come back to the table.In regards to the attacks, I think you're confusing the PA with Hamas.
And as the leaked negotiation documents showed, it isn't the PA who is being uncooperative and unwilling to negotiate. Quite the opposite. Even the US is criticizing Israel for it's settlements derailing the peace process.SquirrelTamer
I don't care what the world dissagree with. Israeli law consider some outposts illegal not all the settlements as a whole.
No if you read what I said they would freeze them with natural growth if the PA would agree to negotiate and without natural growth in exchange for recognition. Lol Israel is "preventing" them from coming back? At the UN a few weeks ago Netanyahu just said they're in the same country, city and house why can't you come and negotiate? Maybe it was secret mossad squirrels stopping him with their infamous insidiousness.
I didn't say it was the PA. But Hamas is suppose to represent the palestinians so they shouldn't be that easily neglected.
"even the US"? So what what's that got to do with anything? They critizise Israel alot. so what? And leaked documents show nothing. And what relevance though they have now with Abbas avoiding talks more than death?
lol, you do realize the Isreali Government accounts for only 18% of settlement building right? freezing 18% is less that 1/5th of the "natural growth" so that freeze was hogwash and ment nothing. So yes it may not be Natenyahu himself that needs to stoop but also the settler movement. So in reality it wasn't a full freeze just one where the GOVERNMENT would stop any GOVERNMENT DRIVEN building projects and Natural growth in Government built and run settlements. You can't even fall back on that card buddy.[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] that I can respect, at least its not the "lets hurt Israel because its Israel" type of argument I occasionally hear.Darkman2007
Or what about, lets not support Israel when they are in fact committing war crimes and breaking international law for the past few decades?
so are the Palestinians, and yet you seem to be quite happy to give them money, actually, judging from your comments, everything is Israel's fault really Im surprised you haven't blamed Israel for everything in the world from, you certainly don't stand up for human rights I can assure you of that, if you did you would be honest. heck between Israel supposidly controlling the US via AIPAC and Israel being the evil state of the Middle East, Im surprised you haven't blamed us for the AIDS virus and 9/11 too. Actually the moment The UN bid went throught the money from the US stopped. Hamas is commiting crimes against Humanity not the Palestinians theres a slight diffrence. One is a generlization the other is critisizing an organization.
The UNESCO isn't the same thing as the security council which is all that matters. KC_Hokie
But at least this is a gesture that shows that it will be possible for Palestine to be recognized as a legit member of the UN.
Palestine shouldn't be independent. They are crazy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_vxhkXgD8hummer700
Those kinds of things tend to happen when your land and people are consistently disrespected for decades, leaving your population as a territory of another nation rather than being your own independent entity.
But really, the PLO isn't what it used to be. It used to be like it was in the video, but those instances are much more sparse than back in the 70s and 80s. Now, it's more about wanting the Two-State Solution which Fatah is more than willing to do.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]
[QUOTE="sircyrus"]
Much of the world would disagree you with on the settlements not being illegal. Even the Israeli laws consider them illegal, hence why Netanyahu announced 2 weeks ago that they're going to look into finding a way to legalize the settlement outposts.
And if Israel said they'd freeze their settlement construction, why did they announce new settlement construction more than once in recent months? The peace talks were derailed 2 years ago when the week before the talks were supposed to begin, Israel announced new settlement construction knowing full well that the Palestinians would be ticked off. They intentionally sabotaged the talks before they even started, and are preventing them from being able to come back to the table.In regards to the attacks, I think you're confusing the PA with Hamas.
And as the leaked negotiation documents showed, it isn't the PA who is being uncooperative and unwilling to negotiate. Quite the opposite. Even the US is criticizing Israel for it's settlements derailing the peace process.mayceV
and yet, you cannot answer my question , what happens when the rockets land on Tel Aviv, which will happen if Israel leaves the West Bank just like that, it happend in Gaza, and it will happen in the West Bank.
and then people wonder why the Israeli public can be skeptical about these things, the world is basically tells us "you all can die for all we care, since we can't be bothered solving your problem"
youre talking about the Palestinians getting "ticked off" due to settlement building, well we get "ticked off" because of rockets that are landing in Israel as we speak , were "ticked off" that half the Palestinian government essentially says we don't exist (thats when they don't spout off propeganda about Jews on TV)
Alright then explain this, Hamas and the PLF agrreed to a no fire treaty brokered by Egypt just yestereday. within 8 hours ( in which no rockets were fired) Isreal bombed a group which they THOUGHT were getting ready to fire rockets. There was no proof they were going to fire the rockets as they were apparently on thier way to the site. Pretty hard to prove they were going to launch some rockets and not go to eat some Humus and Falafel. Isreal Has broken every single truce ever proposed ( back in 07, in 08, and in 09, and yet again now.) Hamas has held up thier side a few time (not always but a majority of the time Hamas and the PLF have held up thier sides to an armistice only for it to be broken by Isreal.) So in reality What is the guarantee that isreal would follow any truce set for by Hamas and not bomb Gaza out of Paranoia? Because that is the case 50% of the time. Also, Why is the blockade getting tighter? in 07 21 miles were allowed to be fished then after the blockade the number shrunk to 6 and was half to 3 miles. now any fishing boat out of 3 miles will be confiscated or fired upon ( 40 boats were fired upon in 09 alone) so The argument goes both way, how can i be sure that Gaza won't be maulled and chocked based on Isreal's word? in the Palestine papers it reiterates how much Isreal isn't willing to negotiate The PA never declined to a peace offer since 2001 Its been Isreal who constantly pulled out when an agreement was near.thats not actually true, there were rockets flying into Israel even during the ceasefire., actually there were rockets flying into Israel for weeks now, and Israel did almost nothing , we keep on asking the international community to put a stop to this, they do nothing, and then complain when Israel goes in to stop them
you have to remember this is the Mideast, if you look weak , youre dead, thus its in Israel's interest to be stong against Hamas, though the damage Israel could do to Gaza, vs what it actually does is a big difference.
the blockade isn't tightening, in fact its the Egyptian border is open , as for a blockade on the Israeli side, well the UN still gets into Gaza whenever it wants, Ive seen it, plenty of trucks full of aid are going into Gaza, but beyond that what do you expect, Gaza is considered a pseudo enemy state, just like the border with Syria for instance, nothing goes through , though at the same time, Syria isn't launching rockets at me.
the Palestinians want a state, I understand that, us Jews wanted a state and got one so on a certain level I sympathise, but how can I have peace with a state where half the state is ruled by people who want me dead, and thats not even counting the non governmental groups like Islamic Jihad and all the hamulot , family like groups that exist.
and no , trust me on this one when I say Lieberman by comparison to something like Hamas, is a moderate, he is on the right, but his party's official policy is support for the two states (albeit he has the same concerns most Israelies do), so there isn't anything similar to Hamas in the Israeli government (although there is a party with a seat in the Knesset which would frankly turn Gaza into a giant parking lot if they were in power)
[QUOTE="hummer700"]Palestine shouldn't be independent. They are crazy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_vxhkXgD8THE_DRUGGIE
Those kinds of things tend to happen when your land and people are consistently disrespected for decades, leaving your population as a territory of another nation rather than being your own independent entity.
But really, the PLO isn't what it used to be. It used to be like it was in the video, but those instances are much more sparse than back in the 70s and 80s. Now, it's more about wanting the Two-State Solution which Fatah is more than willing to do.
ok, thats half their Palestinian state, what about the other half, the one that still acts like that and in fact is arguably worse than anything the PLO was. you can't have peace with half a state, and I do not agree to a 3 state solutionHardly. It's significant because even their strongest support is criticizing them and saying they are causing the delay.[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"]"even the US"? So what what's that got to do with anything? They critizise Israel alot.sircyrus
And leaked documents show nothing. SquirrelTamerIf you believe that, than you haven't read the documents (which have had their authenticityy validated).
The US is neutral in this conflict. Probably the only neutral country. And they critize both Israel and the PA.
Show me the documents then. Though my point still is they have no use when they're not even willing to talk. You should read what Condoleeza Rice just revealed.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] The funding was withdrawn from UNESCO not Israel.Ace6301Im aware of that Then why bring it up? If the US were to cut aid given to all foreign entities the amount would be fairly significant. That's the only case where the US would cut funding from Israel. Also every little bit helps. I'm sure the American tax payers would rather have their money go toward new bridges rather than Israeli tanks. Also you must be kidding if you think losing 5% of your national budget instantly wouldn't have adverse effects. You realize the US gives way more to muslim states than to Israel. Like WAAAY more. Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and even the PA gets money from US. Want to cut that too? And it's also way less than 5% of Israel's BNP.
that I can respect, at least its not the "lets hurt Israel because its Israel" type of argument I occasionally hear.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i am for cutting all gifts too other countries.sSubZerOo
Or what about, lets not support Israel when they are in fact committing war crimes and breaking international law for the past few decades?
You have been asked to show a single law Israel breakes and you have been unable too. This is just typical anti-semitic rabbling. Accusing Israel about stuff you know nothing about just because it's Israel.The Palestinians are not supported by the United States, never were.
What money is that? The US does not gave Palestinians any form of money what so ever.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/obama-administration-u-s-aid-to-palestinian-authority-critical-to-mideast-stability-1.372877
Nice try though although your ignorance shouldn't come as a surprise. For thelike 458th time this year you are factually wrong.
Drawing baseless accusations.. Israel is as much the aggressor as they are the victim.. There is no "just" side.. The United States should not be supporting either leadership unquestioningly..
Except they pretty much never ever been the agressor.
Where did I say that? Oh thats right no where.. I just think that the United States should not unquestioningably support Israel, especially when they have committed war crimes, human rights violations and the like..
Again you haven't showed anything to support this. At all.
Thanks for the great laugh.
I don't find this funny at all. Anti-semitism and ignorance in general is nothing to laugh about.
sSubZerOo
[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"]
[QUOTE="sircyrus"]
Much of the world would disagree you with on the settlements not being illegal. Even the Israeli laws consider them illegal, hence why Netanyahu announced 2 weeks ago that they're going to look into finding a way to legalize the settlement outposts.
And if Israel said they'd freeze their settlement construction, why did they announce new settlement construction more than once in recent months? The peace talks were derailed 2 years ago when the week before the talks were supposed to begin, Israel announced new settlement construction knowing full well that the Palestinians would be ticked off. They intentionally sabotaged the talks before they even started, and are preventing them from being able to come back to the table.In regards to the attacks, I think you're confusing the PA with Hamas.
And as the leaked negotiation documents showed, it isn't the PA who is being uncooperative and unwilling to negotiate. Quite the opposite. Even the US is criticizing Israel for it's settlements derailing the peace process.mayceV
I don't care what the world dissagree with. Israeli law consider some outposts illegal not all the settlements as a whole.
No if you read what I said they would freeze them with natural growth if the PA would agree to negotiate and without natural growth in exchange for recognition. Lol Israel is "preventing" them from coming back? At the UN a few weeks ago Netanyahu just said they're in the same country, city and house why can't you come and negotiate? Maybe it was secret mossad squirrels stopping him with their infamous insidiousness.
I didn't say it was the PA. But Hamas is suppose to represent the palestinians so they shouldn't be that easily neglected.
"even the US"? So what what's that got to do with anything? They critizise Israel alot. so what? And leaked documents show nothing. And what relevance though they have now with Abbas avoiding talks more than death?
lol, you do realize the Isreali Government accounts for only 18% of settlement building right? freezing 18% is less that 1/5th of the "natural growth" so that freeze was hogwash and ment nothing. So yes it may not be Natenyahu himself that needs to stoop but also the settler movement. So in reality it wasn't a full freeze just one where the GOVERNMENT would stop any GOVERNMENT DRIVEN building projects and Natural growth in Government built and run settlements. You can't even fall back on that card buddy.You have proof of this? That Israel would only stop building in government driven building projects?
[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"][QUOTE="hummer700"]Palestine shouldn't be independent. They are crazy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_vxhkXgD8Darkman2007
Those kinds of things tend to happen when your land and people are consistently disrespected for decades, leaving your population as a territory of another nation rather than being your own independent entity.
But really, the PLO isn't what it used to be. It used to be like it was in the video, but those instances are much more sparse than back in the 70s and 80s. Now, it's more about wanting the Two-State Solution which Fatah is more than willing to do.
ok, thats half their Palestinian state, what about the other half, the one that still acts like that and in fact is arguably worse than anything the PLO was. you can't have peace with half a state, and I do not agree to a 3 state solutionI said it was much more sparse, meaning less than half.
Plus, admission as a recognized state in the UN would quell those who would lean toward supporting the radical portion of the PLO.
In that case, there would be much less than half.
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] that I can respect, at least its not the "lets hurt Israel because its Israel" type of argument I occasionally hear.SquirrelTamer
Or what about, lets not support Israel when they are in fact committing war crimes and breaking international law for the past few decades?
You have been asked to show a single law Israel breakes and you have been unable too. This is just typical anti-semitic rabbling. Accusing Israel about stuff you know nothing about just because it's Israel.Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism, and throwing that term around so lightly cheapens it.
ok, thats half their Palestinian state, what about the other half, the one that still acts like that and in fact is arguably worse than anything the PLO was. you can't have peace with half a state, and I do not agree to a 3 state solution[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]
Those kinds of things tend to happen when your land and people are consistently disrespected for decades, leaving your population as a territory of another nation rather than being your own independent entity.
But really, the PLO isn't what it used to be. It used to be like it was in the video, but those instances are much more sparse than back in the 70s and 80s. Now, it's more about wanting the Two-State Solution which Fatah is more than willing to do.
THE_DRUGGIE
I said it was much more sparse, meaning less than half.
Plus, admission as a recognized state in the UN would quell those who would lean toward supporting the radical portion of the PLO.
In that case, there would be much less than half.
first of all , Im not talking about the PLO , Im talking about Hamas (and all the other groups), Hamas are essentially the governing body of Gaza, the other half of the Palestinian state. if you think Hamas are suddenly going to like me because they have a state you need to wake up and smell the coffee, they want me dead no matter what I give them. 2nd , Fatah still occasionally talks about destroying Israel , its just they don't say it to the international media , prefering to speak to the local or pan Arab media instead , where talk about Israel getting wiped out are acceptable.You have been asked to show a single law Israel breakes and you have been unable too. This is just typical anti-semitic rabbling. Accusing Israel about stuff you know nothing about just because it's Israel.[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
Or what about, lets not support Israel when they are in fact committing war crimes and breaking international law for the past few decades?
worlock77
Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism, and throwing that term around so lightly cheapens it.
as is anybody who tries to throw any accusation of Anti Semetism away no matter what he says.
I would agree most people have legitimate concerns , even though frankly they are projecting a message of "as long as the Palestinians get what they want, the Israelies can rot" to the Israeli public.
at the same time, there are people who use criticism of Israel or Zionism as a cover for Anti Jewish incitement.
when supposed "peace activists" vandalise synagouges or Jewish cemeteries with anti Israel messeges , that is Anti Jewish . when some people like David Duke (former head of the KKK) proclaim they are only Anti Zionist, and yet writes about "Jewish Supremecism" that is Anti Jewish.
when the number of attacks on Jews increases everytime something major happens in the Middle East, that is Anti Jewish
when people accuse Israel of everything in the world , trying to make it out to be the worst state on the planet, that is Anti Jewish.
and yes, all of these things are happening.
the sad part is that those very people who are supposidly on the left, sometimes sympathize with groups like Hezbollah or Hamas (both of which are Anti Jewish by ideology), when in fact that is the most absurd and illogical alliance Ive seen.
that said, yes, I think most people have legitimate concerns,without any Anti Jewish feelings, they may be uninformed, but I would think most people are generally decent.
Okay, so let's say the UN goes through with it and gives Palestine statehood. Are they going to hold them responsible in the ICC when they keep saying they want to destroy Israel? Are they going to provide support to Israel when the rocket attacks continue?
At this point, I'm just getting fed up with the whole situation, and I'm fine with just a one state solution now (preferably just Israel).
a one state soluition wouldnt work Im afraid. Zionism (ie Jewish nationalism) is strong in Israel (in some ways more than other countries' nationalism), and the Palestinians have deep rooted nationalism too , so sort of combined state wouldn't work. even if there was a single state, it would end up like Lebanon , where a civil war turned the country into the playground of its neighbours (mainly Syria , the Palestinians and Israel)Okay, so let's say the UN goes through with it and gives Palestine statehood. Are they going to hold them responsible in the ICC when they keep saying they want to destroy Israel? Are they going to provide support to Israel when the rocket attacks continue?
At this point, I'm just getting fed up with the whole situation, and I'm fine with just a one state solution now (preferably just Israel).
xerxes5678
Okay, so let's say the UN goes through with it and gives Palestine statehood. Are they going to hold them responsible in the ICC when they keep saying they want to destroy Israel? Are they going to provide support to Israel when the rocket attacks continue?
At this point, I'm just getting fed up with the whole situation, and I'm fine with just a one state solution now (preferably just Israel).
a one state soluition wouldnt work Im afraid. Zionism (ie Jewish nationalism) is strong in Israel (in some ways more than other countries' nationalism), and the Palestinians have deep rooted nationalism too , so sort of combined state wouldn't work. even if there was a single state, it would end up like Lebanon , where a civil war turned the country into the playground of its neighbours (mainly Syria , the Palestinians and Israel) I think he means an Israel without Palestinians, unless I miss my guess.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="xerxes5678"]a one state soluition wouldnt work Im afraid. Zionism (ie Jewish nationalism) is strong in Israel (in some ways more than other countries' nationalism), and the Palestinians have deep rooted nationalism too , so sort of combined state wouldn't work. even if there was a single state, it would end up like Lebanon , where a civil war turned the country into the playground of its neighbours (mainly Syria , the Palestinians and Israel) I think he means an Israel without Palestinians, unless I miss my guess.Okay, so let's say the UN goes through with it and gives Palestine statehood. Are they going to hold them responsible in the ICC when they keep saying they want to destroy Israel? Are they going to provide support to Israel when the rocket attacks continue?
At this point, I'm just getting fed up with the whole situation, and I'm fine with just a one state solution now (preferably just Israel).
Frame_Dragger
Unfortunately, I do think that's the way it's going to end up eventually.
I think he means an Israel without Palestinians, unless I miss my guess.[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] a one state soluition wouldnt work Im afraid. Zionism (ie Jewish nationalism) is strong in Israel (in some ways more than other countries' nationalism), and the Palestinians have deep rooted nationalism too , so sort of combined state wouldn't work. even if there was a single state, it would end up like Lebanon , where a civil war turned the country into the playground of its neighbours (mainly Syria , the Palestinians and Israel)xerxes5678
Unfortunately, I do think that's the way it's going to end up eventually.
You know that's never gonna happen. Hell, even American won't allow it.[QUOTE="xerxes5678"][QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"] I think he means an Israel without Palestinians, unless I miss my guess. Victorious_Fize
Unfortunately, I do think that's the way it's going to end up eventually.
You know that's never gonna happen. Hell, even American won't allow it. what will happen depends entirely on what Israeli public opinion demands. generally speaking , you could get 10 people in Israel and each one will give a different answer to this topic, ranging from " lets throw all the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs into Jordan" and "lets do as the UN says, and be nice to everybody" most people on the other hand, are somewhere between those views (which are considered extreme), most people would be quite happy for a Palestinian state to exist, but until our concerns are dealt with , specifically the security and demographic concerns, then we have no reason to support a Palestinian state.[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"][QUOTE="xerxes5678"]You know that's never gonna happen. Hell, even American won't allow it. what will happen depends entirely on what Israeli public opinion demands. generally speaking , you could get 10 people in Israel and each one will give a different answer to this topic, ranging from " lets throw all the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs into Jordan" and "lets do as the UN says, and be nice to everybody" most people on the other hand, are somewhere between those views (which are considered extreme), most people would be quite happy for a Palestinian state to exist, but until our concerns are dealt with , specifically the security and demographic concerns, then we have no reason to support a Palestinian state. Yeah, I share a similar sentiment, Israel should be left alone, but self-determination of Palestine can never be ignored. I was just rejecting the above notion of Palestine "wiped off the map".Unfortunately, I do think that's the way it's going to end up eventually.
Darkman2007
what will happen depends entirely on what Israeli public opinion demands. generally speaking , you could get 10 people in Israel and each one will give a different answer to this topic, ranging from " lets throw all the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs into Jordan" and "lets do as the UN says, and be nice to everybody" most people on the other hand, are somewhere between those views (which are considered extreme), most people would be quite happy for a Palestinian state to exist, but until our concerns are dealt with , specifically the security and demographic concerns, then we have no reason to support a Palestinian state. Yeah, I share a similar sentiment, Israel should be left alone, but self-determination of Palestine can never be ignored. I was just rejecting the above notion of Palestine "wiped off the map". the problem is that while the UN (lets use it as an example) has a special agency for the Palestinians and constantly condemns Israel for everything (in fact, most of the UN human rights council's resolutions are against Israel , more than any other country on earth , which frankly is insane, Israel has its issues, but its not the devil like those would suggest) , it doesn't condemn or take action against rockets that are flying right now into Israel , . Israelies see that, and it gets ingrained into the national psyche to some extent , so the common belief in Israel is that out concerns are not being dealt with , while we are expected to accomodate Palestinian demands and concerns.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"] You know that's never gonna happen. Hell, even American won't allow it.Victorious_Fize
You have been asked to show a single law Israel breakes and you have been unable too. This is just typical anti-semitic rabbling. Accusing Israel about stuff you know nothing about just because it's Israel.[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
Or what about, lets not support Israel when they are in fact committing war crimes and breaking international law for the past few decades?
worlock77
Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism, and throwing that term around so lightly cheapens it.
No I didn't say so either. But when the critique is based upon absolutely nothing it makes me suspect the critique has more to do with Israel being Israel. Why would you say Israel commits war crimes when you can't name one?
[QUOTE="xerxes5678"]a one state soluition wouldnt work Im afraid. Zionism (ie Jewish nationalism) is strong in Israel (in some ways more than other countries' nationalism), and the Palestinians have deep rooted nationalism too , so sort of combined state wouldn't work. even if there was a single state, it would end up like Lebanon , where a civil war turned the country into the playground of its neighbours (mainly Syria , the Palestinians and Israel) OOO so you too like Yaser Arafat for proposing the 2 state solution... and winning a nobel peace prize.Okay, so let's say the UN goes through with it and gives Palestine statehood. Are they going to hold them responsible in the ICC when they keep saying they want to destroy Israel? Are they going to provide support to Israel when the rocket attacks continue?
At this point, I'm just getting fed up with the whole situation, and I'm fine with just a one state solution now (preferably just Israel).
Darkman2007
[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"][QUOTE="xerxes5678"]You know that's never gonna happen. Hell, even American won't allow it. what will happen depends entirely on what Israeli public opinion demands. generally speaking , you could get 10 people in Israel and each one will give a different answer to this topic, ranging from " lets throw all the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs into Jordan" and "lets do as the UN says, and be nice to everybody" most people on the other hand, are somewhere between those views (which are considered extreme), most people would be quite happy for a Palestinian state to exist, but until our concerns are dealt with , specifically the security and demographic concerns, then we have no reason to support a Palestinian state. ....so you're telling me, that Isrealis are going to directly deport Palestinians? wow that won't go down good with the newly formed palestine at all ( saying it even happens) That goes against so many human rights it laughable you think it can happen just because the Isreali public wants it to. That make the Isrealis sound selfish and beyond all childish, be careful what you say it can paint you or what you're refering to in a negative image. If I were you I'd stop supporting Liberman that tguy is a straight up racist. how can you support a racist without being racist? it doesn't work. Isrealis wouldn't want peace if they were to deport 1.2 million people because they dwant to ( meaning they don't want them around) They're in the middle East. Here its not dog eat dog Arabs aren't animals, and Isreal has to realize that Palestinians have human right and that if there was a Peace deal then Isrealis would have to live with Arabs. to your Displeasure, they are the majority in the ME.Unfortunately, I do think that's the way it's going to end up eventually.
Darkman2007
what will happen depends entirely on what Israeli public opinion demands. generally speaking , you could get 10 people in Israel and each one will give a different answer to this topic, ranging from " lets throw all the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs into Jordan" and "lets do as the UN says, and be nice to everybody" most people on the other hand, are somewhere between those views (which are considered extreme), most people would be quite happy for a Palestinian state to exist, but until our concerns are dealt with , specifically the security and demographic concerns, then we have no reason to support a Palestinian state. ....so you're telling me, that Isrealis are going to directly deport Palestinians? wow that won't go down good with the newly formed palestine at all ( saying it even happens) That goes against so many human rights it laughable you think it can happen just because the Isreali public wants it to. That make the Isrealis sound selfish and beyond all childish, be careful what you say it can paint you or what you're refering to in a negative image. If I were you I'd stop supporting Liberman that tguy is a straight up racist. how can you support a racist without being racist? it doesn't work. Isrealis wouldn't want peace if they were to deport 1.2 million people because they dwant to ( meaning they don't want them around) They're in the middle East. Here its not dog eat dog Arabs aren't animals, and Isreal has to realize that Palestinians have human right and that if there was a Peace deal then Isrealis would have to live with Arabs. to your Displeasure, they are the majority in the ME. when did I say that is the position I would support or the majority? I did not. what I did say was that people like that exist , that much is true, though unlike with Hamas , those people have no real power. Lieberman himself isn't doing things on a basis of race or ethnicity, what he is doing is bringing up an important issue, the issue of how far is too far. what I mean by that is that by forcing things like a "loyalty law" he is saying "you either want to be a citizen or not" , what he is refering to is the fact that some Arabs in Israel basically openly claim they want it to be destroyed, heck , one Arab member of the Knesset said he wanted Israel to collapse in favour of a caliphate, ie , a memeber of parliament. Ive also seen rallies with Hamas flags in them , and that annoys the Jewish population greatly. its also annoying that Im afraid to go into some Arab towns out of a fear that I might by lynched (and that has happend) I don't expect the Arab citizens to stand up during the national anthem or with the flag (since they are Jewish symbols) , but what I do not like (and most people woudl agree with me) , is those things like the threats and the Hamas rallies I mean can you imagine if someone in Iran or even Jordan had a rally where he carried an Israeli flag through the streets? what would be the reaction? its very much the same. however if you ask me about deporting Arabs, I would object to that, since they are citizens of the state and thus there is no reason for their deportation , if any of them actually want to leave thats their choice, but I won't force them (and judging from polls , the vast majority want to stay due to Israel being a democracy and having a much higher standard of living) so no , Im not racist, I do not hate Arabs (if I hated Arabs, I wouldnt be talking you and a few others would I ? ) , but when I see some Arabs from inside Israel calling for the destruction of my state, that hurts.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"] You know that's never gonna happen. Hell, even American won't allow it.mayceV
Sometimes the U.S. and Israel relationship, strikes me as the hardworking husband who puts up with his very abusive wife in hopes she might love him one day. And despite all of his friends telling him to dump her and that her antics hurt him, he still keeps going thinking one day she might change.m25105Yup US really has Israel in a leash.
[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"] You have been asked to show a single law Israel breakes and you have been unable too. This is just typical anti-semitic rabbling. Accusing Israel about stuff you know nothing about just because it's Israel. SquirrelTamer
Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism, and throwing that term around so lightly cheapens it.
No I didn't say so either. But when the critique is based upon absolutely nothing it makes me suspect the critique has more to do with Israel being Israel. Why would you say Israel commits war crimes when you can't name one?There's a huge leap from possibly being misinformed to being anti-semetic.
[QUOTE="mayceV"]....so you're telling me, that Isrealis are going to directly deport Palestinians? wow that won't go down good with the newly formed palestine at all ( saying it even happens) That goes against so many human rights it laughable you think it can happen just because the Isreali public wants it to. That make the Isrealis sound selfish and beyond all childish, be careful what you say it can paint you or what you're refering to in a negative image. If I were you I'd stop supporting Liberman that tguy is a straight up racist. how can you support a racist without being racist? it doesn't work. Isrealis wouldn't want peace if they were to deport 1.2 million people because they dwant to ( meaning they don't want them around) They're in the middle East. Here its not dog eat dog Arabs aren't animals, and Isreal has to realize that Palestinians have human right and that if there was a Peace deal then Isrealis would have to live with Arabs. to your Displeasure, they are the majority in the ME. when did I say that is the position I would support or the majority? I did not. what I did say was that people like that exist , that much is true, though unlike with Hamas , those people have no real power. Lieberman himself isn't doing things on a basis of race or ethnicity, what he is doing is bringing up an important issue, the issue of how far is too far. what I mean by that is that by forcing things like a "loyalty law" he is saying "you either want to be a citizen or not" , what he is refering to is the fact that some Arabs in Israel basically openly claim they want it to be destroyed, heck , one Arab member of the Knesset said he wanted Israel to collapse in favour of a caliphate, ie , a memeber of parliament. Ive also seen rallies with Hamas flags in them , and that annoys the Jewish population greatly. its also annoying that Im afraid to go into some Arab towns out of a fear that I might by lynched (and that has happend) I don't expect the Arab citizens to stand up during the national anthem or with the flag (since they are Jewish symbols) , but what I do not like (and most people woudl agree with me) , is those things like the threats and the Hamas rallies I mean can you imagine if someone in Iran or even Jordan had a rally where he carried an Israeli flag through the streets? what would be the reaction? its very much the same. however if you ask me about deporting Arabs, I would object to that, since they are citizens of the state and thus there is no reason for their deportation , if any of them actually want to leave thats their choice, but I won't force them (and judging from polls , the vast majority want to stay due to Israel being a democracy and having a much higher standard of living) so no , Im not racist, I do not hate Arabs (if I hated Arabs, I wouldnt be talking you and a few others would I ? ) , but when I see some Arabs from inside Israel calling for the destruction of my state, that hurts. liemerman strikes me as racist, just the way he talks and how aggresive he is about the things that he says. NO LOYALTY NOT CITIZENSHIP! just the way he says it screams that if he had the chance to deport all arabs from israel he wouldn't even hesitate for half a second. As for people calling for the distruction of Isreal from within Israel, You have to look at it from thier prospective. They feel that Just out of nowhere a bunch of people came to thier homeland and displaced millions and sat down. ( I disagree with death threats but I see where the hate is from) Now I see that hate won't change anything other than cause problems. But it is very annoying how The settler party gets a free pass and destroy millions of dollars worth of palestinian property farms and ECT and gets a free pass. then when a Palestinian tries defending himself by say throwing rocks at the settlers in retaliation he'd be fined or sent to jail. If you ask me that is the finest example of apartheid since South Africa. You say that you hate it when Arabs call for the destruction of Israel I'm pretty sure Palestinians hate it when thier olive tree are torn down and thier houses attacked by settlers. Then the Israeli government does nothing about it. Palestinains In Palestine are all messed up because of growing up in an occupied country in which they are treated as lesser than human locked up in little more than a ghetto and attacked by the people viewed as higher than them. That is why there is hate towards Israel.Because what happens to the Palestinians directly by the Israelis settlers. nearly every single Palestinain I've ever known thinks every single Israeli is like the Settlers. Destroying homes, Raiding farms, locking people up, limiting freedom. Re-read that description sounds like some oppressive regime doesn't it? . Now put Israel in the position of the Palestinians You would probably hate everything too. Don't say thing like that don't happen constantly in the WB and Gaza lets not kid each other Israel(mainly settler movement but The entire Isreali government is to blame for doing nothing about it) towards Palestinians in the WB is pretty horrible.[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] what will happen depends entirely on what Israeli public opinion demands. generally speaking , you could get 10 people in Israel and each one will give a different answer to this topic, ranging from " lets throw all the Palestinians and Israeli Arabs into Jordan" and "lets do as the UN says, and be nice to everybody" most people on the other hand, are somewhere between those views (which are considered extreme), most people would be quite happy for a Palestinian state to exist, but until our concerns are dealt with , specifically the security and demographic concerns, then we have no reason to support a Palestinian state.Darkman2007
liemerman strikes me as racist, just the way he talks and how aggresive he is about the things that he says. NO LOYALTY NOT CITIZENSHIP! just the way he says it screams that if he had the chance to deport all arabs from israel he wouldn't even hesitate for half a second. As for people calling for the distruction of Isreal from within Israel, You have to look at it from thier prospective. They feel that Just out of nowhere a bunch of people came to thier homeland and displaced millions and sat down. ( I disagree with death threats but I see where the hate is from) Now I see that hate won't change anything other than cause problems. But it is very annoying how The settler party gets a free pass and destroy millions of dollars worth of palestinian property farms and ECT and gets a free pass. then when a Palestinian tries defending himself by say throwing rocks at the settlers in retaliation he'd be fined or sent to jail. If you ask me that is the finest example of apartheid since South Africa. You say that you hate it when Arabs call for the destruction of Israel I'm pretty sure Palestinians hate it when thier olive tree are torn down and thier houses attacked by settlers. Then the Israeli government does nothing about it. Palestinains In Palestine are all messed up because of growing up in an occupied country in which they are treated as lesser than human locked up in little more than a ghetto and attacked by the people viewed as higher than them. That is why there is hate towards Israel.Because what happens to the Palestinians directly by the Israelis settlers. nearly every single Palestinain I've ever known thinks every single Israeli is like the Settlers. Destroying homes, Raiding farms, locking people up, limiting freedom. Re-read that description sounds like some oppressive regime doesn't it? . Now put Israel in the position of the Palestinians You would probably hate everything too. Don't say thing like that don't happen constantly in the WB and Gaza lets not kid each other Israel(mainly settler movement but The entire Isreali government is to blame for doing nothing about it) towards Palestinians in the WB is pretty horrible. mayceV
I used to have a Palestinian tutor who, in his free time, used to tell us stories of his childhood in Palestine and how he lived off in tents and how when he was a child his hometown got depopulated. I used to love listening to his stories because he used to refer to a lot of military tactics when he told them. He recalled to us memories of how the Zionists came to depopulate his town when he was just a child and how the women in his village struck water on rocks to make it sound like gun fire to hinder the enemys advance so the villagers can get enough time to escape.
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="mayceV"] mayceVliemerman strikes me as racist, just the way he talks and how aggresive he is about the things that he says. NO LOYALTY NOT CITIZENSHIP! just the way he says it screams that if he had the chance to deport all arabs from israel he wouldn't even hesitate for half a second. As for people calling for the distruction of Isreal from within Israel, You have to look at it from thier prospective. They feel that Just out of nowhere a bunch of people came to thier homeland and displaced millions and sat down. ( I disagree with death threats but I see where the hate is from) Now I see that hate won't change anything other than cause problems. But it is very annoying how The settler party gets a free pass and destroy millions of dollars worth of palestinian property farms and ECT and gets a free pass. then when a Palestinian tries defending himself by say throwing rocks at the settlers in retaliation he'd be fined or sent to jail. If you ask me that is the finest example of apartheid since South Africa. You say that you hate it when Arabs call for the destruction of Israel I'm pretty sure Palestinians hate it when thier olive tree are torn down and thier houses attacked by settlers. Then the Israeli government does nothing about it. Palestinains In Palestine are all messed up because of growing up in an occupied country in which they are treated as lesser than human locked up in little more than a ghetto and attacked by the people viewed as higher than them. That is why there is hate towards Israel.Because what happens to the Palestinians directly by the Israelis settlers. nearly every single Palestinain I've ever known thinks every single Israeli is like the Settlers. Destroying homes, Raiding farms, locking people up, limiting freedom. Re-read that description sounds like some oppressive regime doesn't it? . Now put Israel in the position of the Palestinians You would probably hate everything too. Don't say thing like that don't happen constantly in the WB and Gaza lets not kid each other Israel(mainly settler movement but The entire Isreali government is to blame for doing nothing about it) towards Palestinians in the WB is pretty horrible.
I can assure you Lieberman is not a racist, he is a nationalist , but not a racist (and there is a distinction between the two), and from his viewpoint, when an Arab member of parliament goes on the podium and starts acting in the interests of no Israeli citizen (Arab or otherwise) and in fact one of them praised Iran and Hamas, that bothers him , and it bothers alot of people.
I can understand them being sympathetic to their brothers in the West Bank , hence why I don't mind if they support them on a humanitarian level, but sometimes it goes too far, do I understand why they are saying it ? sure, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
now personally I wouldn't vote for Lieberman because I don't agree with everything he says, but I wouldn't say hes a racist (fact is, he doesn't say anything about the Druze for instance, he even has Druze members in his party, because they serve in the army, etc)
as for any concept of Aparthied, thats silly, Aparthied is a seperation based on race, and its not, this is based purely on security, the Palestinians could be Arabs, Chinese , Polish or otherwise, it wouldnt matter on that front, wheter its unjust is something else, but racism its not.
settlers get a free pass because they are Israeli citizens, most West Bankers are not, but in case you didn't know, Palestinians do go to the Israeli Supreme courts sometimes to dispute violence or any land disputes, in fact, on several times the court ordered the army to divert the wall away from a certain area due to a Palestinian going to court over it.
and the difference between the settlers wanting to end any attempt at a Palestinian state, and someone like Hamas saying the same about a Jewish state, is that the settlers do not run Israel, they have political clout, that is true, but not the extent Hamas has over Palestinian politics, you know that, in Israel , its a bunch of religious fanatics , in Palestine, its a big part of the government, and frankly if Israel wasn't there , there wouldnt have been a Fatah either given how quickly Hamas took Gaza.
now I have my own problems with the settlers, mostly in the economic area where protecting them costs Israel alot of money (money that can be better used for welfare), but thats a different matter.
and no , nothing of this sort happens in Gaza, Israel isn't there, which is frankly why I don't understand why rockets are still flying from there.
and if every Arab (or a common stereotype) thinks that Israelies are all crazed religous zealots, I suggest they do more research from some neutral sources,
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