UNESCO recognizes Palestine as a State, US withdraws funding

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

So, in other words Rockets have not been coming into Israel this year, so you can't say it comes in all the time.

No, there aren't settlers in Gaza. But there are settlers in the West Bank who have destroyed Palestinian homes and stole their land which was supported and aided by the Israel government.

I could also flip the argument that there are extremists Jews in Israel and they have influence on the Israel government. If they didn't they wouldn't be building settlements on Palestinian land.

Xtasy26

Okay thanks for the update.

For your last part. I mentioned before that Gaza is run by Hamas, which is extreme. How is that even related to the West Bank being occupied by Israel and the building of settlements.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

Well, can you provide me with numbers as to how many rockets that came out of Gaza over the last 6 months? This is a question i asked you earliers.

AndI would like to see what American's would say to Candians coming into America destroying there homes and occupying Canadian land and opressing and building settlements on American land. Can you provide me answer to that?

Netanyahu destroying Palestinian homes and building settlements, how is that not extreme? How would like if I went to your home and destroyed your home and built a home on top of it. I would like to see you come back and say that I am not extreme. LOL.

Xtasy26

actually the US and Canada were built on the exact thing israel is doing now :P , only on a greater scale back then (though at least I have some claim to the land, they literally had none), but Im not about to go into that because that is mnot my history, nor do I care. but lets assume that Canada actually invaded the US and started building settlements, I would expect the Americans to fight them..... except for the fact there are no settlers in Gaza, and yet thats where the rockets are coming from :P as for Netanyahu , no , on Israel's political scale he is not extreme, he isn't a dove by any means, but he is not extreme, Ben Ari is extreme, Baruch Marzel is extreme, Lieberman is borderline extreme (though much less than the other 2)

"actually the US and Canada were built on the exact thing israel is doing now :P"

That's not true. It's totally different.

"but lets assume that Canada actually invaded the US and started building settlements, I would expect the Americans to fight them....."

So now can you understand why the Palestinians are fighting?

"except for the fact there are no settlers in Gaza, and yet thats where the rockets are coming from :P"

Which explains my comments that Hamas and PA are different.

"on Israel's political scale he is not extreme, he isn't a dove by any means, but he is not extreme, Ben Ari is extreme, Baruch Marzel is extreme, Lieberman is borderline extreme (though much less than the other)"

You are right about your last part. That still doesn't explain how you consider destroying Palestinian home and building land on top of it as not extreme?

Would I not be considered extreme if I did the same thing to you?

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] thats actually a total nonsense on your part, there were rockets coming in these past few days , one person (a civilian was killed) , to which Israel responded by attacking 9 Palestinian militants who were in the process of launching more rockets.. the settlement movement (more specifically the Yesha council) has influence, but it does not control half of Israel ,that is the difference. and if the settlers are in the West Bank , why are the attacks from Gaza? Darkman2007

Okay thanks for the update.

For your last part. I mentioned before that Gaza is run by Hamas, which is extreme. How is that even related to the West Bank being occupied by Israel and the building of settlements.

Okay fair enough.

That still doesn't explain why Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing them. Fact of the matter is Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing Palestinians, these are facts, which is undeniable.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

Okay thanks for the update.

For your last part. I mentioned before that Gaza is run by Hamas, which is extreme. How is that even related to the West Bank being occupied by Israel and the building of settlements.

Xtasy26

Okay fair enough.

That still doesn't explain why Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing them. Fact of the matter is Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing Palestinians, these are facts, which is undeniable.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Ive already provided you with the numbers of rockets in total , since I can't find figures for the last 6 months. though I couldnt care about numbers, the fact is, the rockets are still landing .

actually the US and Canada were built on the exact thing israel is doing now :P , only on a greater scale back then (though at least I have some claim to the land, they literally had none), but Im not about to go into that because that is mnot my history, nor do I care. but lets assume that Canada actually invaded the US and started building settlements, I would expect the Americans to fight them..... except for the fact there are no settlers in Gaza, and yet thats where the rockets are coming from :P as for Netanyahu , no , on Israel's political scale he is not extreme, he isn't a dove by any means, but he is not extreme, Ben Ari is extreme, Baruch Marzel is extreme, Lieberman is borderline extreme (though much less than the other 2)Darkman2007

"actually the US and Canada were built on the exact thing israel is doing now :P"

That's not true. It's totally different.

"but lets assume that Canada actually invaded the US and started building settlements, I would expect the Americans to fight them....."

So now can you understand why the Palestinians are fighting?

"except for the fact there are no settlers in Gaza, and yet thats where the rockets are coming from :P"

Which explains my comments that Hamas and PA are different.

"on Israel's political scale he is not extreme, he isn't a dove by any means, but he is not extreme, Ben Ari is extreme, Baruch Marzel is extreme, Lieberman is borderline extreme (though much less than the other)"

You are right about your last part. That still doesn't explain how you consider destroying Palestinian home and building land on top of it as not extreme?

Would I not be considered extreme if I did the same thing to you?

a) For your first point there is a difference, even your answer about alluding to the UN points to it because Israel was essentialy created with the support of the UN. Whereas in the US we fought the British and kicked them out of our land. Whereas in Canada it was part of the British empire, slowly after which they became independent although they have a Governor General who is representative of the Queen, which is largely symbolic. So, it's a totally different case.

For the last part, at least you admit that is extreme. So, even by your analogy Israel PM is extreme so he is extremists.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

Okay thanks for the update.

For your last part. I mentioned before that Gaza is run by Hamas, which is extreme. How is that even related to the West Bank being occupied by Israel and the building of settlements.

Xtasy26

Okay fair enough.

That still doesn't explain why Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing them. Fact of the matter is Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing Palestinians, these are facts, which is undeniable.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] because in Israel , the situation is viewed as a whole. let me explain a bit. the Palestinians say they want a state right? fine, well , right now they are set to have 2 states. for the people of Israel , they are the same people, especially since Fatah actually claims soverignty over Gaza, and the fact that Abu Mazen (Mahmud Abaas, in the Mideast he has the nickname Abu Mazen) is the legitimate president of all Palestinians. its the same as I said before, Imagine Quebec unilaterlay split off from Canada and attacked the US, its still part of Canada technically, even if on the ground , it would not be. as such , an agreement with the Palestinians can only be done with all Palestinians, not some of them. by that account, that would be like Israel having a peace treaty and not taking the settlers out, would the Palestinians find that acceptable? I don't think so. in the same manner, I don't find it acceptable that there is no agreement that Hamas will stop the rockets, and they won't unless they are part of the dialogue, one way or another.SquirrelTamer

Okay fair enough.

That still doesn't explain why Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing them. Fact of the matter is Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing Palestinians, these are facts, which is undeniable.

You are saying that they are not building settlements on the West bank? Yes or No.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] because in Israel , the situation is viewed as a whole. let me explain a bit. the Palestinians say they want a state right? fine, well , right now they are set to have 2 states. for the people of Israel , they are the same people, especially since Fatah actually claims soverignty over Gaza, and the fact that Abu Mazen (Mahmud Abaas, in the Mideast he has the nickname Abu Mazen) is the legitimate president of all Palestinians. its the same as I said before, Imagine Quebec unilaterlay split off from Canada and attacked the US, its still part of Canada technically, even if on the ground , it would not be. as such , an agreement with the Palestinians can only be done with all Palestinians, not some of them. by that account, that would be like Israel having a peace treaty and not taking the settlers out, would the Palestinians find that acceptable? I don't think so. in the same manner, I don't find it acceptable that there is no agreement that Hamas will stop the rockets, and they won't unless they are part of the dialogue, one way or another.Darkman2007

Okay fair enough.

That still doesn't explain why Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing them. Fact of the matter is Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing Palestinians, these are facts, which is undeniable.

So, what would be the problem with the dealing with Hamas later on and dealing with PA RIGHT NOWfor a peace agreement? I just want to get your prespective on this.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

"actually the US and Canada were built on the exact thing israel is doing now :P"

That's not true. It's totally different.

"but lets assume that Canada actually invaded the US and started building settlements, I would expect the Americans to fight them....."

So now can you understand why the Palestinians are fighting?

"except for the fact there are no settlers in Gaza, and yet thats where the rockets are coming from :P"

Which explains my comments that Hamas and PA are different.

"on Israel's political scale he is not extreme, he isn't a dove by any means, but he is not extreme, Ben Ari is extreme, Baruch Marzel is extreme, Lieberman is borderline extreme (though much less than the other)"

You are right about your last part. That still doesn't explain how you consider destroying Palestinian home and building land on top of it as not extreme?

Would I not be considered extreme if I did the same thing to you?

Xtasy26

a) For your first point there is a difference, even your answer about alluding to the UN points to it because Israel was essentialy created with the support of the UN. Whereas in the US we fought the British and kicked them out of our land. Whereas in Canada it was part of the British empire, slowly after which they became independent although they have a Governor General who is representative of the Queen, which is largely symbolic. So, it's a totally different case.

For the last part, at least you admit that is extreme. So, even by your analogy Israel PM is extreme so he is extremists.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

Okay fair enough.

That still doesn't explain why Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing them. Fact of the matter is Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing Palestinians, these are facts, which is undeniable.

Xtasy26

So, what would be the problem with the dealing with Hamas later on?

well , the best solution like I said would be for the Palestinians to end their civil war, and agree on somewhat of a concensus.

as for talking to the PA right now, again , should I waste my time talking to half the Palestinians?, in fact, one could argue that an agreement with Israel before Palestinian unity might actually drive them further apart.

[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

Okay fair enough.

That still doesn't explain why Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing them. Fact of the matter is Israel is stealing Palestinian land and opressing Palestinians, these are facts, which is undeniable.

Xtasy26

You are saying that they are not building settlements on the West bank? Yes or No.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] not different at all , the only difference was that 300 years ago there was no UN , really thats the only difference. I can understand why they are fighting me but youre arguing a worthless point because I already said I would support the creaton of a Palestinian state, free of settlers. read above for the Hamas thing. of course I would consider that extreme, but then , its all about viewpoints during a conflict, since they are not willing to see my viewpoint, I should not have to see theirs.Darkman2007

a) For your first point there is a difference, even your answer about alluding to the UN points to it because Israel was essentialy created with the support of the UN. Whereas in the US we fought the British and kicked them out of our land. Whereas in Canada it was part of the British empire, slowly after which they became independent although they have a Governor General who is representative of the Queen, which is largely symbolic. So, it's a totally different case.

For the last part, at least you admit that is extreme. So, even by your analogy Israel PM is extreme so he is extremists.

a) Not sure what you mean by your first point.

b) Not sure how building settlements and stealing Palestinian land and building settlements on them is not extreme. That's like me detroying your home and building my HOME on top of your land and saying, "No, I am not extreme". ;)

c) You are making the argument "One's man terrorists is another man's freedom fighter". Does that mean Hamas is NOT extreme? Because from my prespective they would fall under "extreme".

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"] Prove these "facts" then. Israel is certainly not doing any of those things.SquirrelTamer

You are saying that they are not building settlements on the West bank? Yes or No.

Michigan is part of the US. While West Bank is not. So your point?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

a) For your first point there is a difference, even your answer about alluding to the UN points to it because Israel was essentialy created with the support of the UN. Whereas in the US we fought the British and kicked them out of our land. Whereas in Canada it was part of the British empire, slowly after which they became independent although they have a Governor General who is representative of the Queen, which is largely symbolic. So, it's a totally different case.

For the last part, at least you admit that is extreme. So, even by your analogy Israel PM is extreme so he is extremists.

Xtasy26

b) Not sure how building settlements and stealing Palestinian land and building settlements on them is not extreme. That's like me detroying your home and building my HOME on top of your land and saying, "No, I am not extreme". ;)

Not sure if serious

[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

You are saying that they are not building settlements on the West bank? Yes or No.

Xtasy26

Michigan is part of the US. While West Bank is not. So your point?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

a) For your first point there is a difference, even your answer about alluding to the UN points to it because Israel was essentialy created with the support of the UN. Whereas in the US we fought the British and kicked them out of our land. Whereas in Canada it was part of the British empire, slowly after which they became independent although they have a Governor General who is representative of the Queen, which is largely symbolic. So, it's a totally different case.

For the last part, at least you admit that is extreme. So, even by your analogy Israel PM is extreme so he is extremists.

Xtasy26

a) Not sure what you mean by your first point.

b) Not sure how building settlements and stealing Palestinian land and building settlements on them is not extreme. That's like me detroying your home and building my HOME on top of your land and saying, "No, I am not extreme". ;)

c) You are making the argument "One's man terrorists is another man's freedom fighter". Does that mean Hamas is NOT extreme? Because from my prespective they would fall under "extreme".

the rebels who threw the British out were mostly European by ethnicity. , its not like there was a continous European community in the area for thousands of years.

on the other hand, there was a continuous Jewish presence in the region for thousands of years , and Jews are, pretty much an ethnic group (in so much as they didn't mix in with the non Jews around them), hence their connection that land.

but look , Im not going to debate which state is more "legitimate than the other", but that is the truth (at the same time, its pointless to debate it) and I have nothing against the US either, its a great country (heck I have cousins there)

and yes, Im quite aware that to alot of Palestinians, Hamas are freedom fighters , heck , my great grandad was in the Irgun , which was considered a freedom organisation , while the British considered it a terrorist group , Im not denying that, that is the nature of conflict.

and what I mean , is that considering Middle Eastern politics, there are people who are far more extreme than Netanyahu , he is not an extremist, and frankly Palestinians will see any Israeli who isnt a member of some peace group (many of which are disliked in Israel) as extreme.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] yes, and how did these rebels get to what became the US? :P , youre forgeting a detail or two I think. he isn't extreme on the Israeli political scale , but then , Middle Eastern politics is more about the extremes anyways. what seems extreme to you would not be extreme to me.SquirrelTamer

b) Not sure how building settlements and stealing Palestinian land and building settlements on them is not extreme. That's like me detroying your home and building my HOME on top of your land and saying, "No, I am not extreme". ;)

Not sure if serious

Well I am. ;)

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"] Yes and US is building settlements in Michigan. Your point being?SquirrelTamer

Michigan is part of the US. While West Bank is not. So your point?

So, does that mean when Hamas says that Israel is actually not "Israel" because there is no such thing as Israel in their mind, does that mean that there is no such thing as "Israel"?

I hope once Palestine becomes a state they continue their struggle to reclaim the land they were kicked out from.

I hope once Palestine becomes a state they continue their struggle to reclaim the land they were kicked out from.

Harisemo

I hope that entire region falls into the mediterranean sea. It'll stop people fighting over a petty reason.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] yes, and how did these rebels get to what became the US? :P , youre forgeting a detail or two I think. he isn't extreme on the Israeli political scale , but then , Middle Eastern politics is more about the extremes anyways. what seems extreme to you would not be extreme to me.Darkman2007

a) Not sure what you mean by your first point.

b) Not sure how building settlements and stealing Palestinian land and building settlements on them is not extreme. That's like me detroying your home and building my HOME on top of your land and saying, "No, I am not extreme". ;)

c) You are making the argument "One's man terrorists is another man's freedom fighter". Does that mean Hamas is NOT extreme? Because from my prespective they would fall under "extreme".

the rebels who threw the British out were mostly European by ethnicity. , its not like there was a continous European community in the area for thousands of years.

on the other hand, there was a continuous Jewish presence in the region for thousands of years , and Jews are, pretty much an ethnic group (in so much as they didn't mix in with the non Jews around them), hence their connection that land.

but look , Im not going to debate which state is more "legitimate than the other", but that is the truth (at the same time, its pointless to debate it) and I have nothing against the US either, its a great country (heck I have cousins there)

and yes, Im quite aware that to alot of Palestinians, Hamas are freedom fighters , heck , my great grandad was in the Irgun , which was considered a freedom organisation , while the British considered it a terrorist group , Im not denying that, that is the nature of conflict.

and what I mean , is that considering Middle Eastern politics, there are people who are far more extreme than Netanyahu , he is not an extremist, and frankly Palestinians will see any Israeli who isnt a member of some peace group (many of which are disliked in Israel) as extreme.

a) Well they were of European ancestry, you are correct. But they did stay there for hundreds of years. Secondly, eventhough they may of European ancestry (some of whom were British BTW), they considered themselves do be different and have a different identity.

b) Well, I can see where you can make an argument about Jews being an ethnic group. However, there are Ethiopian Jews and Jews who are arabs for example. There were German jews for example (some of whom who fought for Hitler BTW) would you consider German jews as part of "Jewish" ethnicity? How about Swedish Jews?

c) Fair enough about your third point. ;) I do realize there are a lot more extreme point of view than Netanyahu, just like on the Palestinian side who want's to take over ALL OF ISRAEL or considers ISRAEL as part of Palestine and so forth. But my point was that blowing up Palestinian homes and building settlements over it is the definition of extremism.

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

I hope once Palestine becomes a state they continue their struggle to reclaim the land they were kicked out from.

XaosII

I hope that entire region falls into the mediterranean sea. It'll stop people fighting over a petty reason.

There is so much hate in that part of the region. You would expect for a land that is supposed to be considered the 'Holy Land' people are acting in the most 'unholy' manner.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

a) Not sure what you mean by your first point.

b) Not sure how building settlements and stealing Palestinian land and building settlements on them is not extreme. That's like me detroying your home and building my HOME on top of your land and saying, "No, I am not extreme". ;)

c) You are making the argument "One's man terrorists is another man's freedom fighter". Does that mean Hamas is NOT extreme? Because from my prespective they would fall under "extreme".

Xtasy26

the rebels who threw the British out were mostly European by ethnicity. , its not like there was a continous European community in the area for thousands of years.

on the other hand, there was a continuous Jewish presence in the region for thousands of years , and Jews are, pretty much an ethnic group (in so much as they didn't mix in with the non Jews around them), hence their connection that land.

but look , Im not going to debate which state is more "legitimate than the other", but that is the truth (at the same time, its pointless to debate it) and I have nothing against the US either, its a great country (heck I have cousins there)

and yes, Im quite aware that to alot of Palestinians, Hamas are freedom fighters , heck , my great grandad was in the Irgun , which was considered a freedom organisation , while the British considered it a terrorist group , Im not denying that, that is the nature of conflict.

and what I mean , is that considering Middle Eastern politics, there are people who are far more extreme than Netanyahu , he is not an extremist, and frankly Palestinians will see any Israeli who isnt a member of some peace group (many of which are disliked in Israel) as extreme.

a) Well they were of European ancestry, you are correct. But they did stay there for hundreds of years. Secondly, eventhough they may of European ancestry (some of whom were British BTW), they considered themselves do be different and have a different identity.

b) Well, I can see where you can make an argument about Jews being an ethnic group. However, there are Ethiopian Jews and Jews who are arabs for example. There were German jews for example (some of whom who fought for Hitler BTW) would you consider German jews as part of "Jewish" ethnicity? How about Swedish Jews?

c) Fair enough about your third point. ;) I do realize there are a lot more extreme point of view than Netanyahu, just like on the Palestinian side who want's to take over ALL OF ISRAEL or considers ISRAEL as part ofPalestinian and so forth. But my point was that blowing up Palestinian homes and building settlements over it is the definition of extremism.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

the rebels who threw the British out were mostly European by ethnicity. , its not like there was a continous European community in the area for thousands of years.

on the other hand, there was a continuous Jewish presence in the region for thousands of years , and Jews are, pretty much an ethnic group (in so much as they didn't mix in with the non Jews around them), hence their connection that land.

but look , Im not going to debate which state is more "legitimate than the other", but that is the truth (at the same time, its pointless to debate it) and I have nothing against the US either, its a great country (heck I have cousins there)

and yes, Im quite aware that to alot of Palestinians, Hamas are freedom fighters , heck , my great grandad was in the Irgun , which was considered a freedom organisation , while the British considered it a terrorist group , Im not denying that, that is the nature of conflict.

and what I mean , is that considering Middle Eastern politics, there are people who are far more extreme than Netanyahu , he is not an extremist, and frankly Palestinians will see any Israeli who isnt a member of some peace group (many of which are disliked in Israel) as extreme.

Darkman2007

a) Well they were of European ancestry, you are correct. But they did stay there for hundreds of years. Secondly, eventhough they may of European ancestry (some of whom were British BTW), they considered themselves do be different and have a different identity.

b) Well, I can see where you can make an argument about Jews being an ethnic group. However, there are Ethiopian Jews and Jews who are arabs for example. There were German jews for example (some of whom who fought for Hitler BTW) would you consider German jews as part of "Jewish" ethnicity? How about Swedish Jews?

c) Fair enough about your third point. ;) I do realize there are a lot more extreme point of view than Netanyahu, just like on the Palestinian side who want's to take over ALL OF ISRAEL or considers ISRAEL as part ofPalestinian and so forth. But my point was that blowing up Palestinian homes and building settlements over it is the definition of extremism.

Okay thanks for the insight. So basically, Jews are sort of an ethnicity because they were of the same tribe long time ago(but not entirely at least in the present day) and those who are converts to Judaism is not cosidered part of the 'enthicity'. You are right it is a difficult concept to understand.

I just find it hard to comprehend, especially, when you consider that Ethiopian Jews for example,who areblack as compared to a Jew who is white.

If you look at Christianity for example, someone who is a Philipino from the Philipines who is a Christian is a LOT different from a Christian living in middle America who is white.

Likewise, a muslim from Morocco is a lot different from a Muslim from Indonesia, they have a different language, different foods, different physical looks, etc.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

Okay thanks for the insight. So basically, Jews are sort of an ethnicity because they were of the same tribe long time ago(but not entirely at least in the present day) and those who are converts to Judaism is not cosidered part of the 'enthicity'. You are right it is a difficult concept to understand.

I just find it hard to comprehend, especially, when you consider that Ethiopian Jews for example,who areblack as compared to a Jew who is white.

If you look at Christianity for example, someone who is a Philipino from the Philipines who is a Christian is a LOT different from a Christian living in middle America who is white.

Likewise, a muslim from Morocco is a lot different from a Muslim from Indonesia, they have a different language, different foods, different physical looks, etc.

Xtasy26

well exactly, its a difficult concept.

I mean , yeah , if you converted to Judaism for instance (not that Im telling you to, its actually a bit of a sin in Judaism to try and convince someone to convert), you would be as Jewish as me, and that would be the end of it, its just that for people who didn't convert in the last 60 years ago (wheres beforehand, conversion to Judaism would have been seen as a taboo), there is somewhat of a ethnicity side to it.

youve got to remember Christianity and Islam spread differently to Judaism too.

Judaism arrived in Europe primarily through the Jews that lived in Judea (ie modern Israel/Palestine) getting expelled or killed (alot as slaves) following wars with the Romans 70-135AD , but they didn't mix with other people that much, even as far back as that (for instance the Romans imposed a "Jewish tax" after those wars as punishment, which probably help act as a deterrent to any potential converts).

Christianity and Islam spread more by conversions than anything, either by force or through missionaries, and convert the local population.

of course , some communities like the Ethiopian , are less linked due to more intermarriage than average, which could be for a variety of reasons (less repression is the prime one).

however, the biggest Jewish communities up until about 150 years ago were in the Middle East/North Africa, and Europe (including Russia) where there was the most religious opression.

and like I said climate does have an effect to some extent too.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

Okay thanks for the insight. So basically, Jews are sort of an ethnicity because they were of the same tribe long time ago(but not entirely at least in the present day) and those who are converts to Judaism is not cosidered part of the 'enthicity'. You are right it is a difficult concept to understand.

I just find it hard to comprehend, especially, when you consider that Ethiopian Jews for example,who areblack as compared to a Jew who is white.

If you look at Christianity for example, someone who is a Philipino from the Philipines who is a Christian is a LOT different from a Christian living in middle America who is white.

Likewise, a muslim from Morocco is a lot different from a Muslim from Indonesia, they have a different language, different foods, different physical looks, etc.

Darkman2007

well exactly, its a difficult concept.

I mean , yeah , if you converted to Judaism for instance (not that Im telling you to, its actually a bit of a sin in Judaism to try and convince someone to convert), you would be as Jewish as me, and that would be the end of it, its just that for people who didn't convert in the last 60 years ago (wheres beforehand, conversion to Judaism would have been seen as a taboo), there is somewhat of a ethnicity side to it.

youve got to remember Christianity and Islam spread differently to Judaism too.

Judaism arrived in Europe primarily through the Jews that lived in Judea (ie modern Israel/Palestine) getting expelled or killed (alot as slaves) following wars with the Romans 70-135AD , but they didn't mix with other people that much, even as far back as that (for instance the Romans imposed a "Jewish tax" after those wars as punishment, which probably help act as a deterrent to any potential converts).

Christianity and Islam spread more by conversions than anything, either by force or through missionaries, and convert the local population.

of course , some communities like the Ethiopian , are less linked due to more intermarriage than average, which could be for a variety of reasons (less repression is the prime one).

however, the biggest Jewish communities up until about 150 years ago were in the Middle East/North Africa, and Europe (including Russia) where there was the most religious opression.

and like I said climate does have an effect to some extent too.

Okay thanks for the info. :)

Okay thanks for the info. :)

Xtasy26

if youre interested, there was an article in the New York Times basically explaining it a bit better

www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html

might be interesting.

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

Okay thanks for the info. :)

Darkman2007

if youre interested, there was an article in the New York Times basically explaining it a bit better

www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html

might be interesting.

Thanks. Bookmarked for when I have time.:)

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

Okay thanks for the info. :)

Xtasy26

if youre interested, there was an article in the New York Times basically explaining it a bit better

www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html

might be interesting.

Thanks. Bookmarked for when I have time.:)

[QUOTE="Xtasy26"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

if youre interested, there was an article in the New York Times basically explaining it a bit better

www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html

might be interesting.

Darkman2007

Thanks. Bookmarked for when I have time.:)

I agree. I am all for a two state solution living side by side in peace. Hopefully, that will happen in my lifetime although I have my doubts. But I try to remain an optimist even in situations where I have no control over. Nice talking to you, it's good to see another prespective from someone who lives in Israel and see their thoughts and concerns. If you don't see the other side I think you lose prespective of a situation and don't see 'where they are coming from'.