Wait, so what are Canadians taught about WWII?

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="cobrax55"]

eh, im not sure about that. The vast majority of fighting had been agaist the russians, who were in theory ready to fall all the way back to siberia and let moscow burn if they had to. They recieved American aid, but due to political reasons it was limited to non-combat items. They emerged from the war the largest fighting force in human history, with a massive industry. They even invaded manchuria with a force of over 1.5 million men after the war with Germany.

Germany didnt have the Navy to invade britton. I think the issue is that you are focusing on the West, when the real war was being thought in the East.

Their is a reason the Americans never set foot in mainland china...while there is absolutly no way the chinese could have defeated the Japense without outside support, their involvement was crucial. Japan had a huge force in Manchuria, and given the difficulties involved in fighting in mainland china for a foreign force from the east, the war in Japan would have dragged on a considerable length of time longer.

cobrax55

We did set foot in China. It wasn't a huge force, but we certainly had forces there (specifically air force type, though I don't believe the Air Force was officially a part of thearmed forcesat that time).

I blame the historians.

[QUOTE="cobrax55"]

Their is a reason the Americans never set foot in mainland china...while there is absolutly no way the chinese could have defeated the Japense without outside support, their involvement was crucial. Japan had a huge force in Manchuria, and given the difficulties involved in fighting in mainland china for a foreign force from the east, the war in Japan would have dragged on a considerable length of time longer.

psychobrew

We did set foot in China. It wasn't a huge force, but we certainly had forces there (specifically air force type, though I don't believe the Air Force was officially a part of thearmed forcesat that time).

I believe the U.S. had P-40 "Flying Tiger" units in China prior to U.S. entry into WW2.....though I could be wrong about that one.

The American Air Force was not a separate military branch but was part of the U.S. Army known as the Air Corps (just as the Marine Corps was part of the Navy)

[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"][QUOTE="Avian005"]

If it weren't for the allied forces Germany would have won the war, along with Japan. Plain and simple.

Wasdie

Are you one of those guys who think that Russia could have won the war by itself?

They would have.It just would have taken alittle longer.

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

The Canadians took advantage of the situation by running over to Siberia to play hockey while the Soviets were too bussy to notice. Canadians are like that. You can't trust them. Since everyone was playing hockey in Siberia, they had no troops available for WWII.

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

BluRayHiDef

Because, despite what people think, we don't work that way. Canada basically poses no threat to the U.S. and we have good relations. Why cause more wrath around the world when it isn't needed?

Also, we do seem to be working toward a North American Union of sorts (uh sorry Mexico, you aren't invited)

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

BluRayHiDef

Don't tell them this, but we already have.

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

BluRayHiDef

You tried this before.... Canada won and burnt down the white house (Which wasn't white at the time)

Also on topic: at the the outbreak of War Britian had the largest Navy in the world. When Britian won the Battle of Britian it meant Hilter was unable to invade as he didn't have the resources to do it (Unless he had invaded Ireland first).

The point I would make is American Resources were more important than American man power on the Western front. (Athlo I think I'm right in saying before the US entered the war Canada actually gave us most of our supplies)

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

psychobrew

Don't tell them this, but we already have.

:lol: classic.

sometimes I think you are right but it's all good, it's peacefull

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

I lol'd. Clearly the TC is American. In Canada, we learn real history, not 'Mericuh-centric history. If not for the Canadians, British and Russians, we would have lost the war. We might not have been as prolific as the Russians, British and Americans... but we were a part of all the key battles and liberated the Nederlands.

00-Riddick-00

I need to chime in. Right now, lol. From what I gathered of your description of this girl, this is classic "High School Social Studies"-itis. What I mean by that is, the history teachers I had were fairly competent. In Social Studies, we briefly touch on WW1 and 2, though because it's Social Studies, we focus more on social development rather than the military side of war. I'm sure there aren't teachers saying CANADA WON WW2, but as the curriculum goes, we did contribute greatly in many areas (contribute does not mean WINNING battles, but in terms of manpower and materials).

The bottom line is, my history teachers assume that if you know anything about WW2, you know the US, Britain and Russia were the deciding factors (which is touched on if you do History 12, and Canada isn't focused on). Only the people who know NOTHING about history take away the idea that Canada was a deciding factor because they obviously know nothing about the scale of WW2.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

MattDistillery

You tried this before.... Canada won and burnt down the white house (Which wasn't white at the time)

Also on topic: at the the outbreak of War Britian had the largest Navy in the world. When Britian won the Battle of Britian it meant Hilter was unable to invade as he didn't have the resources to do it (Unless he had invaded Ireland first).

The point I would make is American Resources were more important than American man power on the Western front. (Athlo I think I'm right in saying before the US entered the war Canada actually gave us most of our supplies)

haha I couldn't see them getting to the White House again, could you?

Whether or not American resources or man-power was more important doesn't matter. But take both out and see how different the world would be! Once again, I don't see how the beaches of France could have been invaded without the U.S. numbers, maybe even the leadership, not to mention the job Patton did. It was American "bazookas" that solved the problem of the well-armored Tiger tanks, which were far superior to Western tanks 1 on 1.

And trust me, the U.S. sent major #'s of supplies to Britain before entering the war. Hitler didn't like the feigned "neutrality" of the U.S., but he wouldn't attack U.S. merchant ships headed to Britain for fear of getting the U.S. involved, must have drove him crazy (oh wait he was already delusional). The Japanese made that mistake.

I sense your pride in the "Battle of Britain" (and deservedly so), but don't be deluded in thinking the Germans could not have successfully invaded Britain at some point.

I'm gonna guess this thread is filled with a bunch of "America didn't matter in WWII and the UK and/or Russia could have handled Japan and Germany fine all by themselves". Firstly, this is just another one of those baseless, revisionist mindsets concocted by European youth, something I saw plenty of in my twelve years living there. Secondly, it undermines and flat-out ignores several critical factors that anyone who has spent more time researching WWII outside of their 8th grade social studies classroom can tell you were decisive in defeating both Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. For the more specific topic regarding the UK and the USSR being able to perfectly handle Germany by themselves, you folks forgot this little campaign;

[QUOTE="cobrax55"]

Their is a reason the Americans never set foot in mainland china...while there is absolutly no way the chinese could have defeated the Japense without outside support, their involvement was crucial. Japan had a huge force in Manchuria, and given the difficulties involved in fighting in mainland china for a foreign force from the east, the war in Japan would have dragged on a considerable length of time longer.

psychobrew

We did set foot in China. It wasn't a huge force, but we certainly had forces there (specifically air force type, though I don't believe the Air Force was officially a part of thearmed forcesat that time).

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

BluRayHiDef

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="cobrax55"]

Their is a reason the Americans never set foot in mainland china...while there is absolutly no way the chinese could have defeated the Japense without outside support, their involvement was crucial. Japan had a huge force in Manchuria, and given the difficulties involved in fighting in mainland china for a foreign force from the east, the war in Japan would have dragged on a considerable length of time longer.

Verge_6

We did set foot in China. It wasn't a huge force, but we certainly had forces there (specifically air force type, though I don't believe the Air Force was officially a part of thearmed forcesat that time).

Maybe for that part, but I just did some research and we did have a few units in China to supervise the Chineese ground campaign. We wanted China to keep the Japaneese engaged so the troops couldn't be brought over to fight against us in the Pacific.

Canada played a key though small role.. Its ignorant to suggest that any force would be fine with out them.. Canada missing could have changed a lot in the war.. It could have fundamentally changed the invasion plans for instance.. All the main countries that were involved play keyed roles.. All we know is how it happened and ended.. We have no idea what the ramifications there would be if something such as Canada never participating could mean for the war.sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Canada played a key though small role.. Its ignorant to suggest that any force would be fine with out them.. Canada missing could have changed a lot in the war.. It could have fundamentally changed the invasion plans for instance.. All the main countries that were involved play keyed roles.. All we know is how it happened and ended.. We have no idea what the ramifications there would be if something such as Canada never participating could mean for the war.surrealnumber5

I'd give the Canadians props for the support they gave on D-day and their successes in helping beat back the Germans, but the biggest players were industrial giants America and Russia, with Britain just behind. It is not surprising that the U.S. and Soviet Union became the world's great superpowers after the war. Unfortunately for the once-great British Empire, it went on the decline following WW2.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Canada played a key though small role.. Its ignorant to suggest that any force would be fine with out them.. Canada missing could have changed a lot in the war.. It could have fundamentally changed the invasion plans for instance.. All the main countries that were involved play keyed roles.. All we know is how it happened and ended.. We have no idea what the ramifications there would be if something such as Canada never participating could mean for the war.AFBrat77

I'd give the Canadians props for the support they gave on D-day and their successes in helping beat back the Germans, but the biggest players were industrial giants America and Russia, with Britain just behind. It is not surprising that the U.S. and Soviet Union became the world's great superpowers after the war. Unfortunately for the once-great British Empire, it went on the decline following WW2.

The American war machine, the resolve of the English people and the countless troops of the Russians were the most important factors in defeating the Axis. BreakTheseLinks

It might be hard to summarize WW2's Allied victory so simply in one sentence, but I have to say that was very well said. Kudos to you!

Canada played a very important part in the war. They provided troops and supplies to the Western front.

Off Topic:

The US was very important to the war, especially in the Air. Without the Air Superiority. that we help provide, the war would have lasted alot longer. We the nations were needed, one way or another. No nation could win without the support of the other.

They probably did just about as much as the US in therm of preventing Europe getting overrun while america had its head in the sand.Wolls

Doubtfull.

All told, the U.S. sent $31.4 BILLION dollars in supplies to Britain, and $11.3 Billion dollars in supplies to Russia throughout the war.

Could you imagine how much worse those countries would have fared in WW2 without those? Do you all realize how much more a billion is in the 1940's as compared to present?

You cannot say these countries could've won without seeing the full scope of the American contribution, including (in addition to aid) mass manufacturing of P-51D Mustangs (the best fighter of WWII), daily mass bombing of German industrial sites, Patton's 3rd Army aggressively decimating the Germans, the American contribution at D-Day.

Then there's the pacific, where the U.S. was far and away the biggest player for the Allies. Victories at Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa were largely all won at the expense of American blood.

Canadians prevented England from starving and they were also responsible for liberating the Netherlands. Of course, compared to the other Allied Powers, we didn't do a whole lot. No major victories or anything.

Compared to the US, who literally fought on two fronts (Europe and Pacific) we were just a supporting power for men, supplies and materials.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] Whats to underestimate? The moment German, Romanian, Hungarian, and Italian troops crossed the soviet border, the axis lost the war. The axis could not have won the war, period.

surrealnumber5

If they Americans wouldn't have entered things wouldn't have gone like how you think. All of the reasons I said above. It was a war won by manufacturing and numbers. After the Americans entered, it was over for the Axis.

Also as stated before in this thread. America was the only country in the world that could have handled the island hopping against the Japanese. They also supported that while invading Europe and supplying the world.

It was a complete joint effort. Without every country's involvement, things would have gone far differently.

Sorry but if it wasnt for the Australians in world war 2 holding North Africa and giving Rommel his 1st ever defeat and halting his advance,

Then you can say goodbye to africa.

Also sure our navys would have been beaten by the japanese in WW2 but if they invaded the mainland they would have been screwed because their 1st target would be darwin and if your an Australian you'd know how easily we could have pushed em back there (pretty much anywhere).

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] Whats to underestimate? The moment German, Romanian, Hungarian, and Italian troops crossed the soviet border, the axis lost the war. The axis could not have won the war, period.

surrealnumber5

If they Americans wouldn't have entered things wouldn't have gone like how you think. All of the reasons I said above. It was a war won by manufacturing and numbers. After the Americans entered, it was over for the Axis.

Also as stated before in this thread. America was the only country in the world that could have handled the island hopping against the Japanese. They also supported that while invading Europe and supplying the world.

It was a complete joint effort. Without every country's involvement, things would have gone far differently.

Without the Canadians Britain would have literally starved from the lack of manpower, food, and materials.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

If they Americans wouldn't have entered things wouldn't have gone like how you think. All of the reasons I said above. It was a war won by manufacturing and numbers. After the Americans entered, it was over for the Axis.

Also as stated before in this thread. America was the only country in the world that could have handled the island hopping against the Japanese. They also supported that while invading Europe and supplying the world.

It was a complete joint effort. Without every country's involvement, things would have gone far differently.

Sorry but if it wasnt for the Australians in world war 2 holding North Africa and giving Rommel his 1st ever defeat and halting his advance,

Then you can say goodbye to africa.

Also sure our navys would have been beaten by the japanese in WW2 but if they invaded the mainland they would have been screwed because their 1st target would be darwin and if your an Australian you'd know how easily we could have pushed em back there (pretty much anywhere).

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

BluRayHiDef

The Canadians played a large role, were even involved in the Manhattan project weezyfb

What about the Philadelphia project?

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

BluRayHiDef

Sure, come here during the winter with your fancy tanks, aircraft and UAVs. Repeat Hitler's greatest mistake once more. :lol:

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Why doesn't the U.S. simply conquer Canada? We could do it in a few days. Overthrow their government and turn it into another U.S. state. It would be the largest state of the U.S. It would be awesome.

Sure, come here during the winter with your fancy tanks, aircraft and UAVs. Repeat Hitler's greatest mistake once more. :lol:

Considering the fact the US can't handle a terrorist organization even with what is arguably the most advanced military on the planet, I feel doubtful about you guys trying to come here.

And since you depend on us for oil, electricity, and plenty of resources, we cut them off, plunge your country into dismay and your people will be raging at whoever's stupid decision it was to attack us to begin with. :lol:

Im going to make this plain and simple, My friend was chatting on IM with one of his Canadians friends and some how they got on the topic of WWII.

And then she goes on and on about how the Canadians made a huge difference and how the war would have been all but lost without them. So I guess my point is. "Are Canadian history books full of lies?"

00-Riddick-00

We were a team, sure they didn't single handely win the war but none of the countries did. Canada helped out and don't you ever forget it. They lost good men too.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Nick3306"]I think a lot of people on here forgot that Canada actually stormed 2 beaches in the invasion of france.Ace6301

One beach. There were five in total; the US stormed two and Britain stormed the other two.

Canada had the second most heavily defended beach. Naval and aerial bombardment did almost nothing to weaken the german defenses, and by the end of the day they had pushed further into France than any of the other allied forces.

They were also a big player in the Battle of the Atlantic. Ensuring that units and supplies could pass safely too and from Britain without being destroyed by German U-Boats. The Royal Canadian Navy was the best anti-submarine group in the world, and sunk the most U-Boats by the end of the war. The Canadian Navy also bombarded the French coast-line for hours in perperation for the D-Day landings. They were an absolutely integral part of Operation Overlord.

I'm not trying diminish the achievements of anyone, just saying that Canada has a very impressive list of victories throughout both World Wars.

Vimy Ridge, for example. It fell under German control in 1914. The French suffered 150,000 casualties trying to assault it. The Brits tried and were unsuccesful as well. In 1916 the Canadians relieved them and took the ridge with their first all-out assault, only losing about 3,600 soldiers.

Have any of you heard of the Battle of Ypres? The first use of poison gas in World War 1. A massive line of French, British, and Canadian soldiers were pushing pushing towards German trenches. The Germans bombarded their positions with artillery, and then released 160 tons of Chlorine gas into the air. As a massive cloud of yellow gas drifted over the allied trenches, the French and British troops fled. The Canadians were the only ones to stay, thinning out their numbers and filling the gaps in the trenches with their own men.

I can't count the number of times I've heard "Canada fought in 'insert world war'?" Yet at the end of WW2 we had the third largest navy and, fourth largest air force, and the worlds largest volunteer army in history. That seems like a fairly significant contribution. Canada even trained 135,000 allied pilots/air force crewmen from 22 different countries to fight in World War 2.

At the beginning of World War 1, we had an army of about 3,100 men, 6 destroyers and several smaller boats, and 2,000 men to serve on them. By the end of World War 1 we had over 400 boats, 125,000 naval enlisted men, and 600,000 enlisted army members.

These numbers are more impressive when you take into account the fact that Canada as a nation only had a population of about 7,800,000 during WW1, and 12 million a the beginning of WW2 (in which 1.1 million Canadians served).

"THE CANADIANS WERE MARKED OUT AS STORM TROOPS; FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE WAR THEY WERE BROUGHT IN TO HEAD THE ASSAULT IN ONE GREAT BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER. WHENEVER THE GERMANS FOUND THE CANADIAN CORPS COMING INTO THE LINE THEY PREPARED FOR THE WORST."

--BRITISH PRIME MINISTER LLOYD GEORGE, AFTER THE CAPTURE OF VIMY RIDGE

You do know who bailed the British out of Egypt right?

I'm sorry, but the British army was pretty much decimated after constant losses in North Africa and Northern Europe. While they defended their mainland from air assault, they wouldn't have been so lucky against a ground invasion that didn't happen because America got involved with the war and started heavily supplying the the British.

Wasdie

Rommel was already on the run from the British and Australians before America got involved in North Africa.

They did help out a bit in WW2 but they also had one of the largest disasters in Canadian military history (Look up Dieppe Raid). Many Canadian squads were literally annihilated and the ones that survived had to run back to the landing crafts to escape.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

One beach. There were five in total; the US stormed two and Britain stormed the other two.

RearNakedChoke

The truth: The Soviet Union dealt the largest punch to Nazi Germany.

We were a team, sure they didn't single handely win the war but none of the countries did. Canada helped out and don't you ever forget it. They lost good men too.

The_Gaming_Baby

We didn't nuke Japan.

Seriously though, I'm not sure. We did a lot more in WWI.

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]In the wonderfully stupid debate that is WWII you only need one form for an argument. "If it wasn't for 'X' we'd all be speaking German!"00-Riddick-00