Wait, so what are Canadians taught about WWII?

That guys just being nationalistic. Canada aided in World War 2 and participated in large operations (like taking Juno beach on D-day) but the war would have followed that same course with or without us. In fact, The Russians were the only ally that can be said to have truely been the deciding factor in the war. World War 1 on the other hand, Canada did play a very large role and while not the deciding factor, we made a big difference.

[QUOTE="RearNakedChoke"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] And the Americans got the "worst" beach. We pushed a hell of a way up though.Ace6301

[QUOTE="RearNakedChoke"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] And the Americans got the "worst" beach. We pushed a hell of a way up though.Ace6301

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="RearNakedChoke"]Massive postLockedge

Whats with the British and using their loyal commonwealth troops to storm the enemy and get massacared?sonofsmeagle

They value their own people, and could care less about those that are ruled under their wing.

The Battle of the Somme during WW1 was the same fact. They claimed to have cleared out German trenches and positions, sent in Commonwealth forces to clean it up, only to have them all get slaughtered in an unholy bloodbath.

Most of the troops were Canadians too.

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"]Whats with the British and using their loyal commonwealth troops to storm the enemy and get massacared?Desulated

They value their own people, and could care less about those that are ruled under their wing.

The Battle of the Somme during WW1 was the same fact. They claimed to have cleared out German trenches and positions, sent in Commonwealth forces to clean it up, only to have them all get slaughtered in an unholy bloodbath.

Most of the troops were Canadians too.

I don't think you could say the war would have been "all but lost without us" but we definitely made a significant impact. Not to mention the contribution we made to the Manhattan Project. What I remember from Grade 10 History is a little dodgy, but we did make a difference.

Its almost comical how so many Americans downplay Russian/Chinese involvement in the war, as though its absurd that a Communist country could have been so involved. Nobody in America even knows about the Chinese involvement.

cobrax55

You would be wrong on that account. I know full well of the Chinese involvement and the disputes between Chaing Kia Shek and the communist leader (I forget his name right off) and Chaing wanting American help in funding his private war against the communists (though that wasn't necessarily stated).

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"]Whats with the British and using their loyal commonwealth troops to storm the enemy and get massacared?Desulated

They value their own people, and could care less about those that are ruled under their wing.

The Battle of the Somme during WW1 was the same fact. They claimed to have cleared out German trenches and positions, sent in Commonwealth forces to clean it up, only to have them all get slaughtered in an unholy bloodbath.

Most of the troops were Canadians too.

the nationalistic ignorance here is unbelievable. 350,000 men from the united kingdom were killed or wounded at the somme. soldiers from other parts of the british empire were about 50,000 and most of those were British born anyway

[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"]

Im going to make this plain and simple, My friend was chatting on IM with one of his Canadians friends and some how they got on the topic of WWII.

And then she goes on and on about how the Canadians made a huge difference and how the war would have been all but lost without them. So I guess my point is. "Are Canadian history books full of lies?"

yeh somme was a huge disaster and just ignorance on their part, i mean look at Gallipoli aswell even after they new they landed the ANZACs in the wrong place they chose to keep them there for about 9months.sonofsmeagle

without the Somme the allies would not have won WW1. The French army would have collasped at Verdun and the combined arms tactics needed to defeat the German army in 1918, would not have been developed. Plus the allies could recover from the losses at the Somme, the German army never recovered

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"]

yeh somme was a huge disaster and just ignorance on their part, i mean look at Gallipoli aswell even after they new they landed the ANZACs in the wrong place they chose to keep them there for about 9months.

without the Somme the allies would not have won WW1. The French army would have collasped at Verdun and the combined arms tactics needed to defeat the German army in 1918, would not have been developed. Plus the allies could recover from the losses at the Somme, the German army never recovered

Their is a reason the Americans never set foot in mainland china...while there is absolutly no way the chinese could have defeated the Japense without outside support, their involvement was crucial. Japan had a huge force in Manchuria, and given the difficulties involved in fighting in mainland china for a foreign force from the east, the war in Japan would have dragged on a considerable length of time longer.

cobrax55

You should start reading up on the American Volunteer Group led by General Claire Lee Chennault (though volunteers, they were taken from active US Army Air Corps units to fly in a "civilian" capacity and got paid their regular Army pay), XX Bomber Command flying B-29s out of India and China to bomb Japan and Merrill's Marauders led by Frank Merrill under General Joseph Stillwell for the Burma Campaign out of China.

I'm from the UK and was mostly taught about the Blitz and how badass Russia was.

The Canadians did play a big part in WWII. Besides Juno Beach during D-Day, they were part of the Battle for the Schelde and Antwerp. They participated in Operation Infatuate, the taking of Walcheren Island in the southern portion of The Netherlands. British bombers bombed the dikes holding the sea back and flooded the island to neutralize some 300 German bunkers on the island.

This area was underwater after the dikes were bombed.

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

The Canadians did help, but they weren't the deciding factor.

It was really the Russians and the Americans who were the deciding factors.

Wasdie

I think you meant to say the Russians and the British.

You do know who bailed the British out of Egypt right?

I'm sorry, but the British army was pretty much decimated after constant losses in North Africa and Northern Europe. While they defended their mainland from air assault, they wouldn't have been so lucky against a ground invasion that didn't happen because America got involved with the war and started heavily supplying the the British.

The Brits and Aussies had Rommel running backwards in N. Africa.

Germany could never have pulled off a land invasion of Britain - the Royal Navy was far superior to that of the Germans and the RAF had air superiority. If it wasn't for the Brits fending off the Germans for as long as they did, Europe would have completely fallen and the Nazis. From there, they could have launched an invasion of the US (with the Japanese). The Germans and the Japanese could have done some serious damage to the US, you know - before it had three years to sit and build a giant military force and mass produce military equipment and supplies.

After three years of refusing to enter the war (until something directly affected YOU), the least America could do was supply those who had already been fighting and dying for the liberty and freedom of Europe.

The Canadians did play a big part in WWII. Besides Juno Beach during D-Day, they were part of the Battle for the Schelde and Antwerp. They participated in Operation Infatuate, the taking of Walcheren Island in the southern portion of The Netherlands. British bombers bombed the dikes holding the sea back and flooded the island to neutralize some 300 German bunkers on the island.

This area was underwater after the dikes were bombed.

WhiteKnight77

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

The Canadians did play a big part in WWII. Besides Juno Beach during D-Day, they were part of the Battle for the Schelde and Antwerp. They participated in Operation Infatuate, the taking of Walcheren Island in the southern portion of The Netherlands. British bombers bombed the dikes holding the sea back and flooded the island to neutralize some 300 German bunkers on the island.

This area was underwater after the dikes were bombed.

Ninja-Hippo

That was the bike I was riding. :P

I honestly believe without a shadow of a doubt that it is the American account of WW2 which is the most distorted and inaccurate. You'd all be speakin' german if it weren't for us! etc.Ninja-Hippo

At the beginning of World War 1, we had an army of about 3,100 men, 6 destroyers and several smaller boats, and 2,000 men to serve on them. By the end of World War 1 we had over 400 boats, 125,000 naval enlisted men, and 600,000 enlisted army members.

These numbers are more impressive when you take into account the fact that Canada as a nation only had a population of about 7,800,000 during WW1, and 12 million a the beginning of WW2 (in which 1.1 million Canadians served).

RearNakedChoke

You population was only 12 million? Wow, you should have taken some of ours.

The US started supplying England via Lend Lease after it went into effect in March of 1941. It supplied China, England, Russia and other allied nations. The US was involved months before they were attacked. P-400s (export versions of the P-39 Airacobra) bound for Russia ended up in the Southwest Pacific Area of Operations on New Guinea to be flown by US and Australian pilots in 1942 before other fighters made it to the area. When the US started sending material to the UK and Russia, Hitler made it known that he did not want American ships attacked as he didn't want the US involved more than what it was.

Admiral Doenitz almost succeeded in starving out the British though. Once the Happy Times were over due to better anti-submarine efforts of both the US and England, U-boats had to run submerged more often than not. If Doenitz could have had more subs, he could have had a bigger impact on the supply efforts to England.

Hitler had to abandon Operation Sea Lion when the Luftwaffe couldn't get air superiority over England during the Battle of Britain. Still, even if he had, it would have been rather hard as the barges and other craft that were to be used were not suited to amphibious assaults and would have had to be towed over by tugs.

While Bomber Command or more correctly, Bomber Harris didn't think his crews could do pinpoint bombing, there are instances where the accuracy of his crews were quite impressive, especially after he had to sent crews out to bomb oil targets in the Ruhr industrial areas (not to mention the Dambusters). Even the Eighth Air Force screwed up by not bombing Schweinfurt in successive missions allowing Germany to rebuild the ball bearing factories. This happened to other war material plants too. Still, allied airpower decimated the Luftwaffe, especially when they were released from bomber escort duties and were able to go after targets of opportunity.

Meanwhile on the opposite side of the world, the Japanese, who had been at war since 1931 had aircraft that while better in maneuverability, had little or no protection for the pilots or the fuel tanks and when hit, became fireballs. The pilots, generally eschewing parachutes, died. This contributed to the loss of highly valuable experienced pilots (I just read of one Japanese pilot bailing out with a parachute over Simpson Harbor at Rabaul who went on to fight again). The US on the other hand was able to do to Japan what Doenitz wasn't able to do to England. They sunk shipping that was carrying the needed supplies to Japan and Japan couldn't replace it. This also applied to naval ships too, especially aircraft carriers.

Australians played host to naval bases (especially for subs), air bases and rest and recreation areas. Australian troops did exceptionally well in New Guinea though MacArthur didn't seem to think so (don't get me started on MacArthur though).

WWII took a lot of troops from many countries to get the job done. Without the resources of the US, things would have been different. When shipbuilders were churning out cargo ships ever 4 days, it gets pretty impressive on the output of American war production.

I didn't touch on the Italian or North African Campaigns as I haven't read up much on them, but after reading some 45 books on WWII since March 2008, I think I am pretty well versed in WWII history.

Let Canada think that. It'll only inflate their false sense of security, making them even easier to take over.Theokhoth

Also, I give the British mad props for uncovering the German "Enigma" code.

AFBrat77

Actually, it was the Poles who figured it out and actually gave the Polish made machine and the guys who figured it out to the British so they wouldn't fall into German hands when they invaded Poland.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

The Canadians did play a big part in WWII. Besides Juno Beach during D-Day, they were part of the Battle for the Schelde and Antwerp. They participated in Operation Infatuate, the taking of Walcheren Island in the southern portion of The Netherlands. British bombers bombed the dikes holding the sea back and flooded the island to neutralize some 300 German bunkers on the island.

This area was underwater after the dikes were bombed.

WhiteKnight77

That was the bike I was riding. :P

...so, you're a ghost.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

And a ghost of one of the fallen has returned to ride that bike. D:

Media_geek20

That was the bike I was riding. :P

...so, you're a ghost.

There is one thing about WWII that really irks me, especially in respect to those on this forum. People badmouth the US for being involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, but, what about Neville Chamberlain giving Hitler part of Czechoslovakia? England, along with France, with Italy's help give away a country to a country hell bent on starting a war.

[QUOTE="Media_geek20"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

That was the bike I was riding. :P

WhiteKnight77

...so, you're a ghost.

There is one thing about WWII that really irks me, especially in respect to those on this forum. People badmouth the US for being involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, but, what about Neville Chamberlain giving Hitler part of Czechoslovakia? England, along with France, with Italy's help give away a country to a country hell bent on starting a war.

They had U boats that they could have done much more with to mitigate the Royal Navy. They then could have travled accross the channel on row boats.psychobrew

The other problem was broken torpedoes. Early in the war, problems with the torpedoes prevented many sinkings. So frustrated was Admiral Donitz after the Norwegian campaign that he declared "I do not believe that ever in the history of war, men have been sent against the enemy with such a useless weapon." Couple dud torpedoes with a small fleet and an unfavourable battlefield, and you have a recipe for disaster. The only way Germany could have won control of the Channel was to win the Battle of Britain and in so doing wipe their air force out. German dive bombers would then make short work of the defending British ships, and an invasion could (and probably would) have been launched. The Battle of Britain was thus a crucial victory for the Allies, and a devastating defeat for Germany. They failed to eliminate the dreaded "second front," and they left the Allies with airbases within easy striking range of Germany.

Hitler was the head of the puppet government Canada established in Germany. We wanted him to start a war so no one would notice us plundering the world of it resources.

We've been 2 steps ahead of the world for over a century. That's why Canada is so awesome. Oh, and when none of the Allies could defeat the germans. Canada invented a big ass bomb and dropped it on Berlin.....I'm pretty sure that's how it went. Canada started and ended the war!

Hitler was the head of the puppet government Canada established in Germany. We wanted him to start a war so no one would notice us plundering the world of it resources.

We've been 2 steps ahead of the world for over a century. That's why Canada is so awesome. Oh, and when none of the Allies could defeat the germans. Canada invented a big ass bomb and dropped it on Berlin.....I'm pretty sure that's how it went. Canada started and ended the war!

Mikey132

[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"]

Im going to make this plain and simple, My friend was chatting on IM with one of his Canadians friends and some how they got on the topic of WWII.

And then she goes on and on about how the Canadians made a huge difference and how the war would have been all but lost without them. So I guess my point is. "Are Canadian history books full of lies?"

Zyrokin

I thought the best synonym for history was lie. Good enough answer?

The Canadians played a large role, were even involved in the Manhattan project weezyfb

Yeah but come on... Who wasn't involved in that project lol? Even Russia had some people there, albeit illegally and spying :D

amiright or amiright?

Yeah... I was never taught that...

Im going to make this plain and simple, My friend was chatting on IM with one of his Canadians friends and some how they got on the topic of WWII.

And then she goes on and on about how the Canadians made a huge difference and how the war would have been all but lost without them. So I guess my point is. "Are Canadian history books full of lies?"

00-Riddick-00

Hmmm are you still in school? or fairly young? When I was in high School we had a very short learning period on WWI and WWII. We only really learned about what Canadians did. It really wouldn't surpries me to hear that many younger Canadians have no idea of how big the war really was. All they hear is we took a boat across the pond and ran at Machine guns...............That's about as much time as the school system put into learning about the wars, sad but true. It's been 11 years since I left High School.

Most of the learning I've done on the Wars came in my 20's, when I did it on my own time.

Hmmm are you still in school? or fairly young? When I was in high School we had a very short learning period on WWI and WWII. We only really learned about what Canadians did. It really wouldn't surpries me to hear that many younger Canadians have no idea of how big the war really was. All they hear is we took a boat across the pond and ran at Machine guns...............That's about as much time as the school system put into learning about the wars, sad but true. It's been 11 years since I left High School.

Most of the learning I've done on the Wars came in my 20's, when I did it on my own time.

Mikey132

Here in the US, school textbooks made MacArthur out to be a hero. In actuality he was far from it. He was a self-aggrandizing failure of a leader. If he had done what he was supposed to during the years leading up to the fall of the Philippines, he would have been more prepared for the invasion of the islands. You have to do some reading to really find out.

[QUOTE="Mikey132"]

Hmmm are you still in school? or fairly young? When I was in high School we had a very short learning period on WWI and WWII. We only really learned about what Canadians did. It really wouldn't surpries me to hear that many younger Canadians have no idea of how big the war really was. All they hear is we took a boat across the pond and ran at Machine guns...............That's about as much time as the school system put into learning about the wars, sad but true. It's been 11 years since I left High School.

Most of the learning I've done on the Wars came in my 20's, when I did it on my own time.

WhiteKnight77

Here in the US, school textbooks made MacArthur out to be a hero. In actuality he was far from it. He was a self-aggrandizing failure of a leader. If he had done what he was supposed to during the years leading up to the fall of the Philippines, he would have been more prepared for the invasion of the islands. You have to do some reading to really find out.

Yeah, but the line between fact and fiction can be extremely blurry at times, especially when reading books about the history of war.

Canada played an important role, but then again Russian troops killed 7/10 germans where as the allied forces killed the other 30%

Considering the fact the US can't handle a terrorist organization even with what is arguably the most advanced military on the planet, I feel doubtful about you guys trying to come here.

And since you depend on us for oil, electricity, and plenty of resources, we cut them off, plunge your country into dismay and your people will be raging at whoever's stupid decision it was to attack us to begin with. :lol:

Desulated

unarguably the most advanced military...noone is close

the U.S. knocked the Taliban out of Afghanistan with not much more than a handful of Commandos. Do you honestly think hunting down a terrorist organization is easy?

I admire your pride but a successful U.S. invasion of Canada would take 2 weeks at most.

Still, I have nothing against Canada (other than Justin Bieber), instead of being so damn hateful we should be on the same side here. Let's face it Canada will ALWAYS be safe with the U.S. close by.

Peace brother.

We were a team, sure they didn't single handely win the war but none of the countries did. Canada helped out and don't you ever forget it. They lost good men too.

The_Gaming_Baby

agreed, Canada did play an important part in pushing back the Germans, and hats off to those who gave their lives.

Same goes for Americans, British, and I guess the Russians as well. I hold back a bit on the Russians because i served in the U.S. Air Force while we were in a Cold War with the Soviet Union. To me, the Russians were the enemy.

The truth: The Soviet Union dealt the largest punch to Nazi Germany.

MarineXXII

The truth: The United States dealt the largest punch to the Japanese Empire

That guys just being nationalistic. Canada aided in World War 2 and participated in large operations (like taking Juno beach on D-day) but the war would have followed that same course with or without us. In fact, The Russians were the only ally that can be said to have truely been the deciding factor in the war. World War 1 on the other hand, Canada did play a very large role and while not the deciding factor, we made a big difference.

redstorm72

ridiculous statement, and didn't I mention the billions in supplies the U.S. gave to Russia (Lend-lease) to win their battle. The U.S. supplied thousands of logistics trucks to Russia, not to mention food and clothing.

Once again without the U.S. juggernaut to contend with the Germans would have had much more Tiger tanks and advanced weaponry on the Eastern front. U.S. day-time bombing (and British at night) of German manufacturing plants decimated their ability to finish Russia off.

...and lets face it the U.S. was a force through Italy and into Germany after D-Day. Eisenhower let the Russians take Berlin, he held Patton back, but Russia deserved to have Berlin and Eisenhower knew that.

I honestly believe without a shadow of a doubt that it is the American account of WW2 which is the most distorted and inaccurate. You'd all be speakin' german if it weren't for us! etc.Ninja-Hippo

It's not April Fool's Day yet my friend :roll:

ill tell you what i was taught as im canadian and went to school in canada, i was taught that world war 2 was a horrible event that took millions of lifes in total, we never really talked about who really had the biggest impact in the ultimate end to the war, but im pretty sure that the canadians werent the impact that ended it