What are your thought on Affirmative Action?

Do you think it's ever correct for one group to get assistance/advantage from the government due to being treated badly in the past?

To be honest..........No. History cannot be altered and therefore the only way to make ammends is to teach history and learn from the past. And it is a very clever word Rush made up to get away with racism.

I am against affirmative action as it is reverse discrimination and promotes social tensions among otherwise equal people who would be judged based upon merit, not irrelevant characteristics.

I am against affirmative action as it is reverse discrimination and promotes social tensions among otherwise equal people who would be judged based upon merit, not irrelevant characteristics.

coolbeans90

I think it's fine so long as it's handled correctly. There's certainly a fine line that has to be walked, but the fact of the matter is we still live in a world dominated by-and-large by white males.

My ancestors were Scot-Irish and were discriminated against and couldn't find employment when they first came to this country, where's my special treatment?

Even further back, the Romans enslaved my people! Where's my reparations?

My family was royalty until those damn Tudors came along...

See...the point is nearly anyone can claim mistreatment in the past and it's all true. But we are not our ancestors and should not profit from their misery.

Affirmative Action is just legalized discrimination. A job should be given based solely on who is best prepared to do the job, and nothing more.

I think it's fine so long as it's handled correctly. There's certainly a fine line that has to be walked, but the fact of the matter is we still live in a world dominated by-and-large by white males.

PBSnipes

White people are a minority globally. BY FAR.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]

I think it's fine so long as it's handled correctly. There's certainly a fine line that has to be walked, but the fact of the matter is we still live in a world dominated by-and-large by white males.

br0kenrabbit

White people are a minority globally. BY FAR.

My ancestors were Scot-Irish and were discriminated against and couldn't find employment when they first came to this country, where's my special treatment?

Even further back, the Romans enslaved my people! Where's my reparations?

My family was royalty until those damn Tutors came along...

See...the point is nearly anyone can claim mistreatment in the past and it's all true. But we are not our ancestors and should not profit from their misery.

Affirmative Action is just legalized discrimination. A job should be given based solely on who is best prepared to do the job, and nothing more.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]

I think it's fine so long as it's handled correctly. There's certainly a fine line that has to be walked, but the fact of the matter is we still live in a world dominated by-and-large by white males.

MgamerBD

White people are a minority globally. BY FAR.

Han Chinese are by far the largest ethnic group. BY FAR.

Um.........................the romans really didn't enslave the Scottish, yes a few were slaves her an there, but compared to the Guals, Carthaginians, Greeks Egyptions, Iberians, and the people of Anatola (asia minor) you had it easy............REALLY easy. no offence though.lordreaven

Scot-Irish ARE of Germanic (Gaul) Origin. Why do you think the Celtic languages were Germanic?

Edit: First paragraph.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I am against affirmative action as it is reverse discrimination and promotes social tensions among otherwise equal people who would be judged based upon merit, not irrelevant characteristics.

lordreaven

It's been a while lordreaven, good to see you too. It seems that we agree on something related to politics for once. :P

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] Um.........................the romans really didn't enslave the Scottish, yes a few were slaves her an there, but compared to the Guals, Carthaginians, Greeks Egyptions, Iberians, and the people of Anatola (asia minor) you had it easy............REALLY easy. no offence though.br0kenrabbit

Scot-Irish ARE of Germanic (Gaul) Origin. Why do you think the Celtic languages were Germanic?

Edit: First paragraph.

[QUOTE="lordreaven"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I am against affirmative action as it is reverse discrimination and promotes social tensions among otherwise equal people who would be judged based upon merit, not irrelevant characteristics.

coolbeans90

It's been a while lordreaven, good to see you too. It seems that we agree on something related to politics for once. :P

I thought we normally do :?

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]

I think it's fine so long as it's handled correctly. There's certainly a fine line that has to be walked, but the fact of the matter is we still live in a world dominated by-and-large by white males.

MgamerBD

White people are a minority globally. BY FAR.

White people are a minority globally. BY FAR.

br0kenrabbit

Uh, right. Hence the reason for affirmative action -- to provide greater opprotunities to underrepresented groups due to (at least in the western world) the disproportionately high number of whites (particularly white males) in certain desirable positions.

Unless I've misunderstood this the entire time, and affirmative action is actually about how whites are being held down by the Han Chinese. :?

I don't agree with it yet I see it every single god damn day. I'm lucky I even got a job. If it wasn't for my military police background I would still be on the waiting list as they appeased everyone the white man has wronged.

As someone else said; merit or bust.

Well-intentioned, but misguided. Give help to those who need it and don't to those who don't. If those who need help happen to be predominantly a member of a minority, then so be it, but to give them help because of their status in that minority rather than because they actually need help is logically indefensible.

No. The past is the past. Make the most of what you have now.F1_2004

I disagree. The past isn't JUST the past, it has a huge influence on the present and the future.

Current social climate is also a relevant factor.

Personally, I sort of think that affirmative action should start getting phased out NOW. Because the current social climate has changed to the point where racial barriers are not as much of a concern these days. That's not to say that racism doesn't still exist. But where racism against minorities still exists, that's probably not likely to be rectified by affirmative action. Affirmative action had a useful purpose, but I think it's gone about as far as it can. These days, the only color most people think about is green.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="lordreaven"] Yeah what he said! Nice to see you again coolbeans.lordreaven

It's been a while lordreaven, good to see you too. It seems that we agree on something related to politics for once. :P

I thought we normally do :?

Maybe. I think it was namely health-care that I recall disagreeing with you, not sure that we discussed it though. I'm a bit of a libertarian and oppose numerous provisions of the current bill, let alone actual nationalization health-care. I do know we disagreed on Jesus being the most evil person alive, and Darth Vader killing Obi Wan. I mean, what a ****. If Obi Wan hadn't sliced up Anakin, he would have forever been a wussy pants, and never become the iron fist, bad*** sith lord. And what does Vader do to return the favor? He kills Obi-Wan.

I think it's ridiculous..

My ancestors were Scot-Irish and were discriminated against and couldn't find employment when they first came to this country, where's my special treatment?

Even further back, the Romans enslaved my people! Where's my reparations?

My family was royalty until those damn Tudors came along...

See...the point is nearly anyone can claim mistreatment in the past and it's all true. But we are not our ancestors and should not profit from their misery.

Affirmative Action is just legalized discrimination. A job should be given based solely on who is best prepared to do the job, and nothing more.

br0kenrabbit

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

White people are a minority globally. BY FAR.

br0kenrabbit

Han Chinese are by far the largest ethnic group. BY FAR.

I really dislike affirmative action. It's just legalised discrimination against the majority.

We seem to bend over backwards for minority groups. Whilst the majority should never have the ability to harm or discriminate against a minority, the minority should not be in control of the majority.

I don't believe it should be to "repay back history", in fact, it's not even about that. Blacks and Native Americans are amongst the poorest group in the US. So affirmative action makes sense - it is to bring up their social class so it can equalize with other groups. It is very much needed in many countries.Famiking

Yes, but why allot help because of their race? Their race isn't making them poor; their lack of ability to make sufficient money is making them poor. It seems to me that it would make much more sense to give people help because they need their help, not because of their race.

[QUOTE="Famiking"]I don't believe it should be to "repay back history", in fact, it's not even about that. Blacks and Native Americans are amongst the poorest group in the US. So affirmative action makes sense - it is to bring up their social class so it can equalize with other groups. It is very much needed in many countries.GabuEx

Yes, but why allot help because of their race? Their race isn't making them poor; their lack of ability to make sufficient money is making them poor. It seems to me that it would make much more sense to give people help because they need their help, not because of their race.

The cycle goes like this: Slavery -> "Liberation" -> Widespread discrimination -> Extreme poverty -> Read liberation -> Still poor -> Have a poor education -> Don't get into university or may even drop out of high school -> have kids -> poor education -> ...

It takes generations to move up the economical ladder. Affirmative action speeds up the process.

Persons are, well, individuals (as if you needed me to tell you that), so it makes sense to judge a person solely on his own merits.

It should be class-based rather than race-based. We're all the same race - that's painfully obvious. But we aren't all the same class, and those coming from poor, working class families are at a significant disadvantage compared to those coming from affluent, upper-middle class families. Unfortunately, affirmative action as-is is putting working class, European Americans at an even greater disadvantage for the benefit of those who are affluent and just so happen to be black.-Sun_Tzu-

Though I disagree with the whole concept of affirmative action, I agree that if we're gonna have affirmative action it ought to be based around socioeconomic class.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Famiking"]I don't believe it should be to "repay back history", in fact, it's not even about that. Blacks and Native Americans are amongst the poorest group in the US. So affirmative action makes sense - it is to bring up their social class so it can equalize with other groups. It is very much needed in many countries.Famiking

Yes, but why allot help because of their race? Their race isn't making them poor; their lack of ability to make sufficient money is making them poor. It seems to me that it would make much more sense to give people help because they need their help, not because of their race.

The cycle goes like this: Slavery -> "Liberation" -> Widespread discrimination -> Extreme poverty -> Read liberation -> Still poor -> Have a poor education -> Don't get into university or may even drop out of high school -> have kids -> poor education -> ...

It takes generations to move up the economical ladder. Affirmative action speeds up the process.

[QUOTE="Famiking"]I don't believe it should be to "repay back history", in fact, it's not even about that. Blacks and Native Americans are amongst the poorest group in the US. So affirmative action makes sense - it is to bring up their social class so it can equalize with other groups. It is very much needed in many countries.GabuEx

Yes, but why allot help because of their race? Their race isn't making them poor; their lack of ability to make sufficient money is making them poor. It seems to me that it would make much more sense to give people help because they need their help, not because of their race.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Famiking"]I don't believe it should be to "repay back history", in fact, it's not even about that. Blacks and Native Americans are amongst the poorest group in the US. So affirmative action makes sense - it is to bring up their social class so it can equalize with other groups. It is very much needed in many countries.Famiking

Yes, but why allot help because of their race? Their race isn't making them poor; their lack of ability to make sufficient money is making them poor. It seems to me that it would make much more sense to give people help because they need their help, not because of their race.

The cycle goes like this: Slavery -> "Liberation" -> Widespread discrimination -> Extreme poverty -> Read liberation -> Still poor -> Have a poor education -> Don't get into university or may even drop out of high school -> have kids -> poor education -> ...

It takes generations to move up the economical ladder. Affirmative action speeds up the process.

You didn't answer my question.

These people are black and Native American. But they are also poor. The fact that they are black and Native American is not the problem. The fact that they are poor is the problem.

So why are we focusing on the fact that they are black and Native American, rather than the fact that they are poor?

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]

My ancestors were Scot-Irish and were discriminated against and couldn't find employment when they first came to this country, where's my special treatment?

Even further back, the Romans enslaved my people! Where's my reparations?

My family was royalty until those damn Tudors came along...

See...the point is nearly anyone can claim mistreatment in the past and it's all true. But we are not our ancestors and should not profit from their misery.

Affirmative Action is just legalized discrimination. A job should be given based solely on who is best prepared to do the job, and nothing more.

Famiking

If you think Scot-Irish have an average income you need to visit Appalachia.

Scot-Irish settled this area because they were discriminated against 'back east'.

My great grandfather came to this country educated and ready to work, but because he was Scot-Irish, no one would hire him.

Imagine where my family could be today if he was employeed instead of having to homestead on the mountains.

You didn't answer my question.

These people are black and Native American. But they are also poor. The fact that they are black and Native American is not the problem. The fact that they are poor is the problem.

So why are we focusing on the fact that they are black and Native American, rather than the fact that they are poor?

GabuEx

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]You didn't answer my question.

These people are black and Native American. But they are also poor. The fact that they are black and Native American is not the problem. The fact that they are poor is the problem.

So why are we focusing on the fact that they are black and Native American, rather than the fact that they are poor?

Famiking

So?

Chris Rock on Affirmative Action

This video may not be suitable for minors.

[QUOTE="Famiking"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]You didn't answer my question.

These people are black and Native American. But they are also poor. The fact that they are black and Native American is not the problem. The fact that they are poor is the problem.

So why are we focusing on the fact that they are black and Native American, rather than the fact that they are poor?

GabuEx

So?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]You didn't answer my question.

These people are black and Native American. But they are also poor. The fact that they are black and Native American is not the problem. The fact that they are poor is the problem.

So why are we focusing on the fact that they are black and Native American, rather than the fact that they are poor?

Famiking

So?

GabuEx

It's pretty much the same thing here, substitute immigrants with black and Native American.

If it's wrong to give someone a job just because they're white, shouldn't it be wrong to give someone a job just because they're black? I'm all for fighting discrimination, but I don't think reverse-discrimination is the way to do it.