What are your thought on Affirmative Action?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Yes, because it's not the past. Being in various sales jobs, and in 4-5 Fortune 500 companies the last 10 years or so I can attest to the fact racism still exists in the workplace.btaylor2404
Well yeah...that can be proven at any Mexican Resturant...how many of their staff aren't Mexican?
[QUOTE="Shattered007"]
Example of what happens when you don't have Affirmative Action.
California Proposition 209was instated in 1996 which is an anti-Affirmative Action bill. Since then there has been a consistent drop in student of color in Universities and community colleges. Although Californian population continues to diversify and white Americans are outnumberd by enthics (as a whole)groups,college enrollment for ethic students has dropped by more than half. Can anyone that's against Affirmative Action tell me why that is? This whole "racism doesn't exist anymore" thing is not true.
br0kenrabbit
I think this problem comes from two causes, and please don't call me racist because I'm going to be discussing culture here in a minute. But first let's get to schools and education.
When a school fails to meet standards, it gets less funding. Does this make sense? "Let's take the schools that aren't doing well and force them to do better with less."
So you have a whole generation of inner-city school children who aren't getting the same education their peers in the burbs are. Further, because the schools in the burbs perform better, they are always the first to receive any new tech or curriculum. Obviously, this leaves the inner-city children, who are mostly of minority races, at a disadvantage.
Secondly is culture. I'm not saying this is the case for every black person, or that this isn't the case for some white people, but there are families who live on welfare and encourage their children to do the same. Don't believe me? Read the comments section of this story in my local paper. betsytroupes comments sumarise what of lot of people in the 'projects' think. Here's her quote:
betsytroupe: 'Like we been sayinq we qone knock this lil time down '
Daywatch: 'Like we been sayinq we qone knock this lil time down '
I believe the ebonic translation is that they will have no problem serving the small amount of incarceration our courts will give them and be back in business in no time. Nothing but a thang.
betsytroupe: yeah, that daywatch. we be right back like we was.
Rainy: If betsytroupe is your real name, then shame on you. I was around your grandchildren quite a bit when they were younger. If what you've written here is really from you, I am extremely disappointed. No one owes you or your family any reparations for slavery. That time came and went a very long time ago. I have never judged your children for their skin color and I don't appreciate you wearing it thinking I owe you something. Ramon is a good person inside. There was a time when he tried to be a productive member of society, to contribute something good, and get something good in return. What have you done? Told him to forget it, he should lay on his*** and wait for someone to give it to him for free because someone with his skin color was a slave. Hey I bet if you read through history all of us have ancestors who were enslaved. Maybe you are making me a slave by paying half of what I work 70 hours a week to make to pay for your 'benefits.' Is that fair? It lays on your shoulders that you have taken an innocent, loving person and destroyed his life by giving him no hope, no future. Why is it so hard for you to provide a loving, hopeful life for your family?
I live here and I can honestly tell you that the public housing around here are full of people like Betsy. NOT ALL OF THEM, but MANY of them.
I had many black friends growing up, but I want to talk about one in particular: George. George was a great kid in elementary and middle school and always made good grades (talking top of the ****good). But after he got into High School he changed, and the reason he changed is because all his friends were making fun of him for 'acting white'. That is, studying and doing well in school.
Last time I talked to George he had been kicked out of the military and was wandering around the Knoxville shelter. Poor kid had to listen to his peers instead of his instincts, and now he's going to pay for that for the rest of his life.
Affirmative Action isn't going to solve these problems. All it does is give people an excuse to under-perform.
Okay, I won't call you racist for generalizing a group of people by EDIT: (I'm sorry, you're basing that off of some random post in the comment section by people that may not even be on welfare, You need to post some proof the next to you make a statment like that not some garbage you found on the interweb one day). :roll: There were incentives in place to provide additional funding for Affirmative Action schools before prop 209 came into effect. I'd also like to point out that the funding issue as a whole was made even worse under the Bush doctorate, No Child Left Behind bill that was past during his time in office. Maybe the reason schools are failing are because of non diverse teaching staff (Southern California ****s have a much higher population of Hispanics then any other ethnic group, yet the teaching staff is still mostly white) and then turn around an pass a anti-discrimination law which probably had a less diverse group of student strive to become teachers. But that really only applies to K-12 and community colleges. Point being is that when you start pretending that racism is not real and expect people to treat everyone the same with no safety net to make sure that this is true you get Universities that have fewer and fewer ethnic students despite the fact that ethnic groups make up the majority.Okay, I won't call you racist for generalizing a group of people by pointing out based off a criminal statement. :roll:Shattered007
The comments I posted were in support of my statement, and I made very clear I wasn't generalizing by saying "NOT ALL BUT SOME". :roll::roll::roll:
There were incentives in place to provide additional funding for Affirmative Action schools before prop 209 came into effect. I'd also like to point out that the funding issue as a whole was made even worse under the Bush doctorate, No Child Left Behind bill that was past during his time in office.Shattered007
Agreed. But it's not affirmative action that's going to solve this issue, it's fixing the root causes that will. Once a child is out of school it's all said and done, and there's not much anyone can do to re-educate them.
Maybe the reason schools are failing are because of non diverse teaching staff (Southern California ****s have a much higher population of Hispanics then any other ethnic group, yet the teaching staff is still mostly white)
Shattered007
If there are few hispanics qualified for or interested in teaching, whose fault is that?
In don't think you're racist; the only think that bothers me is once again it seems like affirmative action is labeled a "black" thing. When that is the furthest from the truth. I've stated this too many times already, but once again AA benefits white women overwhelmingly more than it benefits blacks.I think this problem comes from two causes, and please don't call me racist because I'm going to be discussing culture here in a minute. But first let's get to schools and education.
When a school fails to meet standards, it gets less funding. Does this make sense? "Let's take the schools that aren't doing well and force them to do better with less."
So you have a whole generation of inner-city school children who aren't getting the same education their peers in the burbs are. Further, because the schools in the burbs perform better, they are always the first to receive any new tech or curriculum. Obviously, this leaves the inner-city children, who are mostly of minority races, at a disadvantage.
Secondly is culture. I'm not saying this is the case for every black person, or that this isn't the case for some white people, but there are families who live on welfare and encourage their children to do the same. Don't believe me? Read the comments section of this story in my local paper. betsytroupes comments sumarise what of lot of people in the 'projects' think. Here's her quote:
betsytroupe: 'Like we been sayinq we qone knock this lil time down '
Daywatch: 'Like we been sayinq we qone knock this lil time down '
I believe the ebonic translation is that they will have no problem serving the small amount of incarceration our courts will give them and be back in business in no time. Nothing but a thang.betsytroupe: yeah, that daywatch. we be right back like we was.
Rainy: If betsytroupe is your real name, then shame on you. I was around your grandchildren quite a bit when they were younger. If what you've written here is really from you, I am extremely disappointed. No one owes you or your family any reparations for slavery. That time came and went a very long time ago. I have never judged your children for their skin color and I don't appreciate you wearing it thinking I owe you something. Ramon is a good person inside. There was a time when he tried to be a productive member of society, to contribute something good, and get something good in return. What have you done? Told him to forget it, he should lay on his*** and wait for someone to give it to him for free because someone with his skin color was a slave. Hey I bet if you read through history all of us have ancestors who were enslaved. Maybe you are making me a slave by paying half of what I work 70 hours a week to make to pay for your 'benefits.' Is that fair? It lays on your shoulders that you have taken an innocent, loving person and destroyed his life by giving him no hope, no future. Why is it so hard for you to provide a loving, hopeful life for your family?
I live here and I can honestly tell you that the public housing around here are full of people like Betsy. NOT ALL OF THEM, but MANY of them.
I had many black friends growing up, but I want to talk about one in particular: George. George was a great kid in elementary and middle school and always made good grades (talking top of the ****good). But after he got into High School he changed, and the reason he changed is because all his friends were making fun of him for 'acting white'. That is, studying and doing well in school.
Last time I talked to George he had been kicked out of the military and was wandering around the Knoxville shelter. Poor kid had to listen to his peers instead of his instincts, and now he's going to pay for that for the rest of his life.
Affirmative Action isn't going to solve these problems. All it does is give people an excuse to under-perform.
br0kenrabbit
The comments I posted were in support of my statement, and I made very clear I wasn't generalizing by saying "NOT ALL BUT SOME". br0kenrabbitThe comments came from a artical about a stabbing, in what why does random comments in which you have no way of verifying anything is some how "In support" of your statment? :roll:
In don't think you're racist; the only think that bothers me is once again it seems like affirmative action is labeled a "black" thing. When that is the furthest from the truth. I've stated this too many times already, but once again AA benefits white women overwhelmingly more than it benefits blacks.Ace_WondersX
I was more responding to Shatterds post about college admissins than making an overall comment about AA with that post. And sorry, but inner-city schools in these parts are mostly black, I don't mean to generalize I'm just speaking from my own experience.
I went to a white school with a decent number of black students (maybe 15% total) and I know the 'projects' culture and 'gang' culture doesn't apply to all of them, but the sad fact of the current state of things it that it applies to too many. I've seen good black kids turn bad because of their peers holding their race over them. I've personally heard comments like "You the white mans **** now" when a black college friend of mine announced to his friends he'd been hired at IBM. They should be congradulating him, not making him feel outcast.
That's the culture I'm talking about. It doesn't apply to all or even most black people and it doesn't NOT apply to some white persons. It's just when you're dealing with the inner-city, you have to acknowledge 'White Flight' and that for the most part, inner-city students are minorities.
[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]The comments I posted were in support of my statement, and I made very clear I wasn't generalizing by saying "NOT ALL BUT SOME". Shattered007The comments came from a artical about a stabbing, in what why does random comments in which you have no way of verifying anything is some how "In support" of your statment? :roll:
:roll:
A little reading comprehension please? My post wasn't AT ALL about the stabbing but about the comments posted. The comments posted re-iterated what I, from a third persons perspective was saying, except it was in the first-person. I was telling you MY take on the matter, and then letting the type of person I was talking about concur with their take on the matter.
Obamas election didn't end racism but it proved it isn't so prevelent in these days that race will stop someone from getting some where, or that racists are a majority.
Racism still exists. I can turn on any black comedians stand up and basically prove that as they make racist stereotypes toward white people.
I never understood why racism is only worth fighting against if it's racism toward a non-white race but racism toward whites is just fine. Racism won't die if it exists in any form, even toward whites.
I have seen comedians that were not black (on Comedy Central all the time) make racist jokes. It seem to me that you just have a taste for black comedians but even then it's satire and nothing they say should be taken serious not to mention half the time black comedians usually (if not always) make fun of blacks all the time. So do white comedians. I never understood people that like to point to comedians as the root of racism when they almost always make fun of everyone. There's a difference between trying to hurt someone's feeling and trying to make them laugh at them self and others. Carlos Mancia is probably the most racist comedian in the world and he doesn't get **** from the black/white/Asian/middle eastern/islander community at all. That's a very weak argument by any means.The comments came from a artical about a stabbing, in what why does random comments in which you have no way of verifying anything is some how "In support" of your statment? :roll:[QUOTE="Shattered007"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]The comments I posted were in support of my statement, and I made very clear I wasn't generalizing by saying "NOT ALL BUT SOME". br0kenrabbit
:roll:
A little reading comprehension please? My post wasn't AT ALL about the stabbing but about the comments posted. The comments posted re-iterated what I, from a third persons perspective was saying, except it was in the first-person. I was telling you MY take on the matter, and then letting the type of person I was talking about concur with their take on the matter.
I know you meant the comment posted but can you tell me what race they are for sure? Can you tell me that you know for a fact that they are actually on welfare? Can you tell me that these aren't some kids with way too much time on their hand? No!? So how the hell can you use those as examples of anything, let alone the mindset of people on welfare in America? I'm done talking to you.
[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]
[QUOTE="Shattered007"] The comments came from a artical about a stabbing, in what why does random comments in which you have no way of verifying anything is some how "In support" of your statment? :roll:Shattered007
:roll:
A little reading comprehension please? My post wasn't AT ALL about the stabbing but about the comments posted. The comments posted re-iterated what I, from a third persons perspective was saying, except it was in the first-person. I was telling you MY take on the matter, and then letting the type of person I was talking about concur with their take on the matter.
I know you meant the comment posted but can you tell me what race they are for sure? Can you tell me that you know for a fact that they are actually on welfare? Can you tell me that these aren't some kids with way too much time on their hand? No!? So how the hell can you use those as examples of anything, let alone the mindset of people on welfare in America? I'm done talking to you.
Yes. Yes. Yes, to all the above.
No. The past is the past. Make the most of what you have now.F1_2004I concur.
/thread :P
I agree with everything you said except the "reverse discrimination" part. Discrimination is discrimination, even if it's against whites and males, it's discrimination.I am against affirmative action as it is reverse discrimination and promotes social tensions among otherwise equal people who would be judged based upon merit, not irrelevant characteristics.
coolbeans90
I concur.[QUOTE="F1_2004"]No. The past is the past. Make the most of what you have now.gamerguru100
/thread :P
You might want to try reading through the thread a little more when there's 6 pages before quoting the first response and agreeing, especially considering that Affirmative Action has nothing to do with the past beside Civil rights that continue to allude some Americans today.It shouldn't be done.
If releasing a falsely accused prisoner and giving him/her money counts as Affirmative Action then I think, in this circumstance, it is okay. The person lost years of their life that they would have spent saving in jail for a crime they didn't commit, and although they cannot truly be compensated for the lost time, a gift of money would be very helpful for these people to re-start their lives.
In the United States, yes. Economic demographics are too varied and unfairthat it is clear being lower class coincides with being black (not to discount any poor whites out there either). All it takes is a few bigots to deny many the opportunity for better education or career which in the future could work towards raising a larger part of the previously said group and then eliminating any need for AA.
In Canada, no I do not. What I see here is ridiculous, we have a law that is commonly called "Employment Equity" which is just veiled kiss-assing towards the new immigrants arriving from Asia in huge droves. Businesses and government institutions are required to hire a certain amount of minorities, women, and First Nations per a certain number of people applying for the job (First Nations who are majorly kiss-assed to up here; I myself am 1/4th FN and am appalled by the unfair disadvantage given). Further ineffectiveness is the way they classify some, groups who have often be discriminated against like Jews, Roma, or Armernians are classified as "white". Another point is the affluence of those coming here from Asia, most are already middle class and many own businesses. There is no incentive for them to hire outside of their own race because they don't have to deal with such a thing as employment equity, not to mention the fact that the city of Vancouver where most of these new arrivals live already has a larger Asian population than a white one.
Affirmiative Action should be used to help all people who need extra help, not just one group of people. Or it shouldn't be used at all.
AA has nothing to do with releasing falsely accused prisoners. Actually, a person that was falsely accused of a crime and goes do jail has very little recourse. He might be able to sue the city he lives in but that's a stretch. AA is an anti-discrimination policy that was put into place to prevent government jobs, agency, schools, state universities, community collegesand sub contractors from holding race, sex religion and disability over a possible employee. It would seem like many think that it's a "Since I'm black I get to the job over you white guy" bill and I would understand the anger that that kind of bill would invoke but it couldn't be further from the truth. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like anyone really wants to take the time to learn about or understand it.It shouldn't be done.
If releasing a falsely accused prisoner and giving him/her money counts as Affirmative Action then I think, in this circumstance, it is okay. The person lost years of their life that they would have spent saving in jail for a crime they didn't commit, and although they cannot truly be compensated for the lost time, a gift of money would be very helpful for these people to re-start their lives.
Duxsox56
[QUOTE="gamerguru100"]I concur.[QUOTE="F1_2004"]No. The past is the past. Make the most of what you have now.Shattered007
/thread :P
You might want to try reading through the thread a little more when there's 6 pages before quoting the first response and agreeing, especially considering that Affirmative Action has nothing to do with the past beside Civil rights that continue to allude some Americans today.Ironically, I just read your post after I got done reading most of the comments in the thread. :P Eh...I'm not going to argue here. It's not worth it.On another note, I am getting sick of the race related threads on OT. It's nothing but flame fodder.
[QUOTE="Shattered007"][QUOTE="gamerguru100"]I concur.You might want to try reading through the thread a little more when there's 6 pages before quoting the first response and agreeing, especially considering that Affirmative Action has nothing to do with the past beside Civil rights that continue to allude some Americans today.Ironically, I just read your post after I got done reading most of the comments in the thread. :P Eh...I'm not going to argue here. It's not worth it. But that's the point, there' nothing their to argue. It's not a bill to discrimination aginst whites, as a matter of fact white women have had this bill help them more then any other races. It's a policy that makes sure there's diverity based on per capa regions in schools and goverment jobs. Even white males can benifit from it./thread :P
gamerguru100
Something I learned very quickly after I made the interracial relationships thread...the internet is not the place to discuss race, however this is only as racial as you want to make it...what it boils down to is equal opportunities. Some people seem to think it a bill that only benefitsblacks and forces their hand when it comes to hiring someone of race or taking a place in a school.On another note, I am getting sick of the race related threads on OT. It's nothing but flame fodder.
Bobzfamily
[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]I have seen comedians that were not black (on Comedy Central all the time) make racist jokes. It seem to me that you just have a taste for black comedians but even then it's satire and nothing they say should be taken serious not to mention half the time black comedians usually (if not always) make fun of blacks all the time. So do white comedians. I never understood people that like to point to comedians as the root of racism when they almost always make fun of everyone. There's a difference between trying to hurt someone's feeling and trying to make them laugh at them self and others. Carlos Mancia is probably the most racist comedian in the world and he doesn't get **** from the black/white/Asian/middle eastern/islander community at all. That's a very weak argument by any means.Obamas election didn't end racism but it proved it isn't so prevelent in these days that race will stop someone from getting some where, or that racists are a majority.
Racism still exists. I can turn on any black comedians stand up and basically prove that as they make racist stereotypes toward white people.
I never understood why racism is only worth fighting against if it's racism toward a non-white race but racism toward whites is just fine. Racism won't die if it exists in any form, even toward whites.
Shattered007
I haven't ever seen a white comedian make a joke about black people. The closest I ever saw was Daniel Tosh making a joke about fried chicken once. No other comedian I've seen goes anywhere near race except black comedians whose majority of jokes involve race.
If you want to get rid of racism, stop putting so much importance on it.
I looks like I'll have to post this again
Second thing I want to address is the fact it seems like a lot of people don't really understand how Affirmative Action works in the workplace. First off affirmative action only applies to government jobs or jobs from companies attempting to get government contracts.
Third, it doesn't work like "you're white so you're not getting the job"; companies are promoted to have a certain percentage of each race directly related to the population of the area they are in. So majority white area it is fine to have a majority white staff/workforce, but if you're in a majority black area but your workforce is still majority white, then you're probably not getting that government contract.
Fourth, the government is against race based employment to matter your race. People tend to think that whites aren't protected under discrimination laws, but they are. Companies are strictly prohibited by the government from using race as a factor in employment, whether or not companies follow the rules is the problem.
It just seems like people have misconceptions on how affirmative action works.Ace_WondersX
It doesn't matter if only the government is enforcing affirmative action, as it is still reverse racism/sexism/otherisms. The lesser quantity of it doesn't make it more justifiable. If anything the government should be a truly equal opportunity employer which selects its employees based solely upon merit with absolutely no judgment with regards to race, gender religion etc... Affirmative action violates that as applicants are selected based upon different arbitrarily defined groups of people to meet a certain percentage of the workforce, regardless of qualifications.
If there are fewer qualified of a certain group, than the required ratio should be equivalent to the ratio of qualified applicants if anything, not based upon local population. If the policies favor a percentage of an ethnicity based upon anything besides the number of qualified applicants within said social groups, then the policies are racist. End of story. Racism begets racism, and cannot be solved with more of the like. You cannot fight fire with fire.
I haven't ever seen a white comedian make a joke about black people. The closest I ever saw was Daniel Tosh making a joke about fried chicken once. No other comedian I've seen goes anywhere near race except black comedians whose majority of jokes involve race.
If you want to get rid of racism, stop putting so much importance on it.
Pixel-Pirate
Lisa Lampanelli used to be on Comedy Central ALL THE TIME (don't know about now, I haven't watched it recently), and joking about blacks must have been at least 50% of her whole act.
[QUOTE="Ace_WondersX"]
I looks like I'll have to post this again
Second thing I want to address is the fact it seems like a lot of people don't really understand how Affirmative Action works in the workplace. First off affirmative action only applies to government jobs or jobs from companies attempting to get government contracts.
Third, it doesn't work like "you're white so you're not getting the job"; companies are promoted to have a certain percentage of each race directly related to the population of the area they are in. So majority white area it is fine to have a majority white staff/workforce, but if you're in a majority black area but your workforce is still majority white, then you're probably not getting that government contract.
Fourth, the government is against race based employment to matter your race. People tend to think that whites aren't protected under discrimination laws, but they are. Companies are strictly prohibited by the government from using race as a factor in employment, whether or not companies follow the rules is the problem.
It just seems like people have misconceptions on how affirmative action works.coolbeans90
It doesn't matter if only the government is enforcing affirmative action, as it is still reverse racism/sexism/otherisms. The lesser quantity of it doesn't make it more justifiable. If anything the government should be a truly equal opportunity employer which selects its employees based solely upon merit with absolutely no judgment with regards to race, gender religion etc... Affirmative action violates that as applicants are selected based upon different arbitrarily defined groups of people to meet a certain percentage of the workforce, regardless of qualifications.
If there are fewer qualified of a certain group, than the required ratio should be equivalent to the ratio of qualified applicants if anything, not based upon local population. If the policies favor a percentage of an ethnicity based upon anything besides the number of qualified applicants within said social groups, then the policies are racist. End of story. Racism begets racism, and cannot be solved with more of the like. You cannot fight fire with fire.
You realize that Slavery, segregation, lack of civil right and lack of women's rights were once US policies, right? You realize that there are people that carried that kind of thinking generation after generation? you realize we're talking about events like the Civil rights movement was less than 50 years ago, right? You realize that many women still don't make as much as their male counterpart. Or I assume you'd be okay if Obama filed every position in his cabinet with blacks only. :|
Undecided. It has its place, but I dont know enough about its effects to give an intelligent reply.
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]
[QUOTE="Ace_WondersX"]
I looks like I'll have to post this again
Second thing I want to address is the fact it seems like a lot of people don't really understand how Affirmative Action works in the workplace. First off affirmative action only applies to government jobs or jobs from companies attempting to get government contracts.
Third, it doesn't work like "you're white so you're not getting the job"; companies are promoted to have a certain percentage of each race directly related to the population of the area they are in. So majority white area it is fine to have a majority white staff/workforce, but if you're in a majority black area but your workforce is still majority white, then you're probably not getting that government contract.
Fourth, the government is against race based employment to matter your race. People tend to think that whites aren't protected under discrimination laws, but they are. Companies are strictly prohibited by the government from using race as a factor in employment, whether or not companies follow the rules is the problem.
It just seems like people have misconceptions on how affirmative action works.Shattered007
It doesn't matter if only the government is enforcing affirmative action, as it is still reverse racism/sexism/otherisms. The lesser quantity of it doesn't make it more justifiable. If anything the government should be a truly equal opportunity employer which selects its employees based solely upon merit with absolutely no judgment with regards to race, gender religion etc... Affirmative action violates that as applicants are selected based upon different arbitrarily defined groups of people to meet a certain percentage of the workforce, regardless of qualifications.
If there are fewer qualified of a certain group, than the required ratio should be equivalent to the ratio of qualified applicants if anything, not based upon local population. If the policies favor a percentage of an ethnicity based upon anything besides the number of qualified applicants within said social groups, then the policies are racist. End of story. Racism begets racism, and cannot be solved with more of the like. You cannot fight fire with fire.
You realize that Slavery, segregation, lack of civil right and lack of women's rights were once US policies, right? You realize that there are people that carried that kind of thinking generation after generation? you realize we're talking about events like the Civil rights movement was less than 50 years ago, right? You realize that many women still don't make as much as their male counterpart. Or I assume you'd be okay if Obama filed every position in his cabinet with blacks only. :|Fighting fire with fire. Of course slavery and segregation were terrible policies, but you cannot fight the lingering effects those discriminatory policies with more of the like. If those whom Obama wanted nominate to his cabinet happen to be black, so be it. It's not case in real life though, as qualified individuals come from a plethora of backgrounds.
You realize that Slavery, segregation, lack of civil right and lack of women's rights were once US policies, right? You realize that there are people that carried that kind of thinking generation after generation? you realize we're talking about events like the Civil rights movement was less than 50 years ago, right? You realize that many women still don't make as much as their male counterpart. Or I assume you'd be okay if Obama filed every position in his cabinet with blacks only. :|[QUOTE="Shattered007"]
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]
It doesn't matter if only the government is enforcing affirmative action, as it is still reverse racism/sexism/otherisms. The lesser quantity of it doesn't make it more justifiable. If anything the government should be a truly equal opportunity employer which selects its employees based solely upon merit with absolutely no judgment with regards to race, gender religion etc... Affirmative action violates that as applicants are selected based upon different arbitrarily defined groups of people to meet a certain percentage of the workforce, regardless of qualifications.
If there are fewer qualified of a certain group, than the required ratio should be equivalent to the ratio of qualified applicants if anything, not based upon local population. If the policies favor a percentage of an ethnicity based upon anything besides the number of qualified applicants within said social groups, then the policies are racist. End of story. Racism begets racism, and cannot be solved with more of the like. You cannot fight fire with fire.
coolbeans90
Fighting fire with fire. Of course slavery and segregation were terrible policies, but you cannot fight the lingering effects those discriminatory policies with more of the like. If those whom Obama wanted nominate to his cabinet happen to be black, so be it. It's not case in real life though, as qualified individuals come from a plethora of backgrounds.
Affirmative action is not 'more of the like'.[QUOTE="coolbeans90"][QUOTE="Shattered007"] You realize that Slavery, segregation, lack of civil right and lack of women's rights were once US policies, right? You realize that there are people that carried that kind of thinking generation after generation? you realize we're talking about events like the Civil rights movement was less than 50 years ago, right? You realize that many women still don't make as much as their male counterpart. Or I assume you'd be okay if Obama filed every position in his cabinet with blacks only. :|
spacedog1973
Fighting fire with fire. Of course slavery and segregation were terrible policies, but you cannot fight the lingering effects those discriminatory policies with more of the like. If those whom Obama wanted nominate to his cabinet happen to be black, so be it. It's not case in real life though, as qualified individuals come from a plethora of backgrounds.
Affirmative action is not 'more of the like'.Yes it is. It takes race into consideration with regards to percentage of jobs without necessarilly taking merit into account.
Affirmative action is not 'more of the like'.[QUOTE="spacedog1973"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]
Fighting fire with fire. Of course slavery and segregation were terrible policies, but you cannot fight the lingering effects those discriminatory policies with more of the like. If those whom Obama wanted nominate to his cabinet happen to be black, so be it. It's not case in real life though, as qualified individuals come from a plethora of backgrounds.
coolbeans90
Yes it is. It takes race into consideration with regards to percentage of jobs without necessarilly taking merit into account.
Of course merit is taken into account in relation to affirmative action; people are employed if they are suitable and skilled for the job. The whole point is that they would have gotten the job without affirmative action if the employer used their skills/experience etc as a motive for employing them, rather than their race, disability, gender etc to discriminate nagainst them which has and continues to be the case.
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]
[QUOTE="spacedog1973"] Affirmative action is not 'more of the like'.spacedog1973
Yes it is. It takes race into consideration with regards to percentage of jobs without necessarilly taking merit into account.
Of course merit is taken into account in relation to affirmative action; people are employed if they are suitable and skilled for the job. The whole point is that they would have gotten the job without affirmative action if the employer used their skills/experience etc as a motive for employing them, rather than their race, disability, gender etc to discriminate nagainst them which has and continues to be the case.
No, that's equal opportunity employment. Affirmative action requires a certain percentage of different arbitrarily defined social groups to be employed. That certainly takes specifically requires race to be a consideration for employment, education etc...
I'm for it. I doubt many highly qualified people are not getting jobs because of it, and I think more minority's wouldn't get jobs if AA wasn't in place.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment