[QUOTE="consoletroll"][QUOTE="lamprey263"]Here in the US illegal immigrants pay income taxes, because whether they're working with a fake social security number, a tax identification number, social security numbers are also provided to people who come on work visas who continue to use them when they overstay that visa, when taxes are taken out they're taken by the employer and the difference is given to the employee. Furthermore, the money they do spend here also contributes to consumption taxes, as well as contributes to the domestic economy. People who have provided fake social security numbers can't file for tax returns under those numbers, but up to 6 million illegal immigrants now file for tax returns when they file with a tax identification number or a SSN (ones given to them when they had a valid visa); worth noting that around half of illegal immigrants overstay visas. An estimated 50-75% of illegal immigrants now file tax returns each year for the taxes they do pay, but the money they pay into social security and medicare is money for services they are ineligible to utilize. With regards to crime, studies show that illegal immigrants commit crimes at a significantly lower rate that citizen population. Ages 18-39 illegal immigrants commit crimes 5 to 7 times less than native citizens. So, it's rather baseless when people try to paint a picture that all illegal immigrants are border hopping and don't work and pay taxes and end up on welfare to subsidize a life of gangbanging, as again nearly half are ones that overstay visas, they do work and pay taxes and even collect tax returns, and they're ineligible to receive welfare relief or any other government program designed for citizens like social security or medicare, and they commit crimes at a significantly lower rate than native born citizens. When they file a tax return, they basically get most of their taxes back in a "RETURN". Considering they probably have multiple dependents and deductions / declared income below 35,000 (paid in cash) they may even get paid from the gov. This. Most illegal immigrants are actually working under the table, for cash. There is no paper-trail, no employer taking taxes out. Thus when it comes time to file their income tax, they'll more often than not, end up with cash back, due to them being under the "poverty line" despite they've been making more and simply lying about it.
[QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"]I think they should be refused any medical treatment even from emergency rooms. They should be refused all welfare assistance, and I think they should not be allowed to work at all. If an employer is caught with illegals, they should be fined one million per illegal and should do a minimum of 5 years in prison. If it was this way, we would have no illegals. I am okay with immigrants coming here as long as they do it the legal way. But if what I said was actually done, all the illegals would be forced to leave due to no way to survive here. Hate me all you wish for thinking this way, I couldn't care less.Person0
Or they just turn to crime.That's only the ones here now and they would go to prison. No new comers due to now having 0 reason to come.
[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"]I think they should be refused any medical treatment even from emergency rooms. They should be refused all welfare assistance, and I think they should not be allowed to work at all. If an employer is caught with illegals, they should be fined one million per illegal and should do a minimum of 5 years in prison. If it was this way, we would have no illegals. I am okay with immigrants coming here as long as they do it the legal way. But if what I said was actually done, all the illegals would be forced to leave due to no way to survive here. Hate me all you wish for thinking this way, I couldn't care less.AmazonTreeBoa
Or they just turn to crime.That's only the ones here now and they would go to prison. No new comers due to now having 0 reason to come. Escaping the drug war and still having a chance at a better life are 2 good reasons.
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="consoletroll"][QUOTE="lamprey263"]Here in the US illegal immigrants pay income taxes, because whether they're working with a fake social security number, a tax identification number, social security numbers are also provided to people who come on work visas who continue to use them when they overstay that visa, when taxes are taken out they're taken by the employer and the difference is given to the employee. Furthermore, the money they do spend here also contributes to consumption taxes, as well as contributes to the domestic economy. People who have provided fake social security numbers can't file for tax returns under those numbers, but up to 6 million illegal immigrants now paying taxes and file for tax returns when they file with a tax identification number or a SSN (ones given to them when they had a valid visa); worth noting that around half of illegal immigrants overstay visas. An estimated 50-75% of illegal immigrants now file tax returns each year for the taxes they do pay, but the money they pay into social security and medicare is money for services they are ineligible to utilize. With regards to crime, studies show that illegal immigrants commit crimes at a significantly lower rate that citizen population. Ages 18-39 illegal immigrants commit crimes 5 to 7 times less than native citizens. So, it's rather baseless when people try to paint a picture that all illegal immigrants are border hopping and don't work and pay taxes and end up on welfare to subsidize a life of gangbanging, as again nearly half are ones that overstay visas, they do work and pay taxes and even collect tax returns, and they're ineligible to receive welfare relief or any other government program designed for citizens like social security or medicare, and they commit crimes at a significantly lower rate than native born citizens. When they file a tax return, they basically get most of their taxes back in a "RETURN". Considering they probably have multiple dependents and deductions / declared income below 35,000 (paid in cash) they may even get paid from the gov. This. Most illegal immigrants are actually working under the table, for cash. There is no paper-trail, no employer taking taxes out. Thus when it comes time to file their income tax, they'll more often than not, end up with cash back, due to them being under the "poverty line" despite they've been making more and simply lying about it. The IRS claims that 6 million of the 11 million estimated illegal immigrants are paying income taxes and filing for tax returns, the IRS provides illegal immigrants with tax identification numbers as a means of paying income taxes and filing for tax returns without fear of reprisal from immigration agencies. As a result 6 million are paying taxes and filing tax returns, and probably many are paying into taxes through their employer (who automatically deducts federal withholding, social security, and medicare) but aren't making tax returns, and sure some are getting paid under the table (day laborers, independent contractors) but they're not able to get any tax return because they did not pay into federal withholdings (and thus have no W2s or any other documents showing federal withholding which is the basis for a tax return). They're ineligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit as those are only available for citizens and alien residents. Child Tax Credits are available to non-citizens only if their children are US citizens (which in many cases is the case, 3/4 of children of illegal immigrants are US born) at $1000 per year per head. As for most of them being in poverty, 1/3rd of illegal immigrants live under the poverty line, which is a lot, but that's 2/3rd that don't so that's hardly what I'd call "more often than not". Also, the child tax credit is not a poverty tax credit, though it is adjusted for higher earners and excludes people earning more than $75K/year for individuals and $110K for married couples. Tax deductions do not allow for people to get more out of their return than they put in, it only deduces the tax liability and thus can increase a return, and the return will not exceed federal income tax withhholdings and income tax payments; thus they can't be refunded more than their withholdings on tax deductions. A tax credit on the other hand will pay the difference extra in a refund if the tax liability is met. The only tax credit in contention when it comes to illegal immigrants is the Child Tax Credit, which again pays $1,000 per citizen child per year; which is a contestable issue among lawmakers whether to remove the tax credit or not given that it mostly effects citizen children. Sure some are probably lying their earned income, same can be said to just about anybody else that gets paid under the table or is self employed, being an illegal immigrant doesn't have anything to do with that. But the reality is over the last several years the IRS has been issuing more and more tax identification numbers to illegal immigrants and more and more of them are paying taxes, and thus able to file for taxes and get tax returns. With exception to the Child Tax Credit for citizen children, the money they get back is the money they've given the government for withholdings, that's why it's called a "tax return".
One simple question if where you live is a war zone and or your family are literally starving... Would you care if some country like America that enslaved people and literally took over a country and re-named it said no?...
The issue is controversial because at its very core its hypocritical. No human being should be stopped from wanting to survive in the modern world. I can understand not wanting criminals in... but the irony here is that if people get in illegally and work 50 hours a week for $100 ask your self this who's the criminal exactly?
[QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"][QUOTE="Person0"] Or they just turn to crime.Person0
That's only the ones here now and they would go to prison. No new comers due to now having 0 reason to come. Escaping the drug war and still having a chance at a better life are 2 good reasons.With no money, food, or medical, there are other places better for them than here.
I think they should be refused any medical treatment even from emergency rooms. They should be refused all welfare assistance, and I think they should not be allowed to work at all. If an employer is caught with illegals, they should be fined one million per illegal and should do a minimum of 5 years in prison. If it was this way, we would have no illegals. I am okay with immigrants coming here as long as they do it the legal way. But if what I said was actually done, all the illegals would be forced to leave due to no way to survive here. Hate me all you wish for thinking this way, I couldn't care less.AmazonTreeBoa
Illegal immigration is a spit in the face to all the people who migrated to America the legal way and that way was not easy. Illegal immigration is not only a problem in America but all over the world.
Because they can offer the same service at a better price? Sounds like they're beating you at capitalism. :lol:
Be nice if you knew what you were talking about....it's not about service at all. It's actually about business choosing to make more profit by exploiting illegal immigrants...hence company's beat immigrants at capitalism.;)
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You would if you lost your job to one....LJS9502_basic
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Because they can offer the same service at a better price? Sounds like they're beating you at capitalism. :lol:
Be nice if you knew what you were talking about....it's not about service at all. It's actually about business choosing to make more profit by exploiting illegal immigrants...hence company's beat immigrants at capitalism.;)
Ether way it's capitalism at work. Capitalism is a good thing no?
Because they can offer the same service at a better price? Sounds like they're beating you at capitalism. :lol:
worlock77
Be nice if you knew what you were talking about....it's not about service at all. It's actually about business choosing to make more profit by exploiting illegal immigrants...hence company's beat immigrants at capitalism.;)
Ether way it's capitalism at work. Capitalism is a good thing no?
It's not an either/or issue. Bit more complicated than that.....
Because they can offer the same service at a better price? Sounds like they're beating you at capitalism. :lol:
iHarlequin
Be nice if you knew what you were talking about....it's not about service at all. It's actually about business choosing to make more profit by exploiting illegal immigrants...hence company's beat immigrants at capitalism.;)
Ether way it's capitalism at work. Capitalism is a good thing no?
Stupid argument is stupid since US employees in some instances can't offer their services for anything lower than the minimum wage. Lets abolish the minimum wage and see "capitalism at work".
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You would if you lost your job to one....LJS9502_basic
Â
Because they can offer the same service at a better price? Sounds like they're beating you at capitalism. :lol:
Be nice if you knew what you were talking about....it's not about service at all. It's actually about business choosing to make more profit by exploiting illegal immigrants...hence company's beat immigrants at capitalism.;)
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It is nice that I know what I'm talking about, I agree with you. Capitalism doesn't have boundaries, and it doesn't make the distinction you do between Americans and Illegal Immigrants. Sure, there's a slew of legal and humanitarian issues there, but if anything it's just a show of what capitalism cares about (tip: it starts with a 'p' and ends with 'rofit').
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Be nice if you knew what you were talking about....it's not about service at all. It's actually about business choosing to make more profit by exploiting illegal immigrants...hence company's beat immigrants at capitalism.;)LJS9502_basic
Ether way it's capitalism at work. Capitalism is a good thing no?
It's not an either/or issue. Bit more complicated than that.....
They're a net economic benefit, at least for the U.S.A.. The reason that the U.S. has a "problem" with illegal immigration is due to the fact that it has a high demand for cheap labour and Latin America provides for a very large supply of said cheap labour.
I find most discussions about immigration ironic, especially when dealing with xenophobic people, given how the European settlers that later founded the United States commited a genocide against American Indians to take over the land and push them onto smaller and smaller reservations which were/are really prisoner of war camps, and then started an illegal war with Mexico to steal land from them which would later become the states of California, Texas, Arizona.
send em back to their country of origin, give room and jobs opportunies to people that actually live here or are willing to go through the process of being here legally.
They take advantage of our healthcare system and contribute to the skyrocketing costs of hospitals and medication in the US. Â It's privatized which makes my life a thousand times harder and more expensive than what it needs to be. Â If we had a socialized healthcare system it wouldn't be as much of a problem but as it stands they are a burden for me personally and I don't support their migration here.Â
There are millions of legal immigrants who worked their whole lives, to do it the right way - like my grandfather, who worked for 20 years to save money, studied American history, and swore his allegiance to the US, when he became a citizen .
These lazy bums, who believe they have the right to disrespect the hard work of the legal immigrants who came here the right way, make me sick to my stomach.
I'm all for them wanting a better life. That said, to break the law to get here and then cut in front of all the people trying to go about it the right/legal way isn't cool. Also I'd say if they want to be here then I think there loyalty should be to the country they are sneaking into and not there home country.
Are they a danger to our society? No big deal? Why do they sneak into America? Is it hard to get here the legal way? Can we really blame them for wanting a better life?Capitan_Kid
My faculty advisor in my department is British. He has lived in the United States for 6 years as a legal resident. Â He is still not a citizen. Â He has two PhDs.
Now imagine you are a poor Mexican with almost no schooling. Â The chances of getting into this country if you are not: 1) Related to a citizen, 2) Highly skilled (working), 3) Hold an advanced degree, are literally nonexistant.
And no they are not a danger to society... If anything they are what keep life here "cheap." Do you think food would be cheap if they were paying some guy $12 an hour and providing him benefits to pick fruit?
They take advantage of our healthcare system and contribute to the skyrocketing costs of hospitals and medication in the US. Â It's privatized which makes my life a thousand times harder and more expensive than what it needs to be. Â If we had a socialized healthcare system it wouldn't be as much of a problem but as it stands they are a burden for me personally and I don't support their migration here.Â
starfox15
But the 50,000,000 or whatever uninsured citizens aren't a problem, just those damn illegal brown people.
[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]Are they a danger to our society? No big deal? Why do they sneak into America? Is it hard to get here the legal way? Can we really blame them for wanting a better life?Squeets
My faculty advisor in my department is British. He has lived in the United States for 6 years as a legal resident. Â He is still not a citizen. Â He has two PhDs.
Now imagine you are a poor Mexican with almost no schooling. Â The chances of getting into this country if you are not: 1) Related to a citizen, 2) Highly skilled (working), 3) Hold an advanced degree, are literally nonexistant.
And no they are not a danger to society... If anything they are what keep life here "cheap." Do you think food would be cheap if they were paying some guy $12 an hour and providing him benefits to pick fruit?
How has he been living here for 6 years as a legal resident but is not a citizen?
[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]Are they a danger to our society? No big deal? Why do they sneak into America? Is it hard to get here the legal way? Can we really blame them for wanting a better life?Capitan_Kid
My faculty advisor in my department is British. He has lived in the United States for 6 years as a legal resident. Â He is still not a citizen. Â He has two PhDs.
Now imagine you are a poor Mexican with almost no schooling. Â The chances of getting into this country if you are not: 1) Related to a citizen, 2) Highly skilled (working), 3) Hold an advanced degree, are literally nonexistant.
And no they are not a danger to society... If anything they are what keep life here "cheap." Do you think food would be cheap if they were paying some guy $12 an hour and providing him benefits to pick fruit?
How has he been living here for 6 years as a legal resident but is not a citizen? Because he's working. My dad has been the US for over 45 years and never became a citizen.
My faculty advisor in my department is British. He has lived in the United States for 6 years as a legal resident. Â He is still not a citizen. Â He has two PhDs.
Now imagine you are a poor Mexican with almost no schooling. Â The chances of getting into this country if you are not: 1) Related to a citizen, 2) Highly skilled (working), 3) Hold an advanced degree, are literally nonexistant.
And no they are not a danger to society... If anything they are what keep life here "cheap." Do you think food would be cheap if they were paying some guy $12 an hour and providing him benefits to pick fruit?
TheGrat1
How has he been living here for 6 years as a legal resident but is not a citizen? Because he's working. My dad has been the US for over 45 years and never became a citizen.
My mom has been working in the US for over 30 years, got a degree here, got married here, and is still working to get her citizenship papers.
People like to think that every illegal immigrant is a poor mexican that ran across the border or swan from Cuba. Many are people how came here on a student visa or a work visa and when the economy turned they hit a speed bump on getting their paper work in order.
[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]Are they a danger to our society? No big deal? Why do they sneak into America? Is it hard to get here the legal way? Can we really blame them for wanting a better life?Capitan_Kid
My faculty advisor in my department is British. He has lived in the United States for 6 years as a legal resident. Â He is still not a citizen. Â He has two PhDs.
Now imagine you are a poor Mexican with almost no schooling. Â The chances of getting into this country if you are not: 1) Related to a citizen, 2) Highly skilled (working), 3) Hold an advanced degree, are literally nonexistant.
And no they are not a danger to society... If anything they are what keep life here "cheap." Do you think food would be cheap if they were paying some guy $12 an hour and providing him benefits to pick fruit?
How has he been living here for 6 years as a legal resident but is not a citizen?
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