What is the one thing that shapes your whole political philosophy?

Basically I'm suggesting no authority beyond the local community. Marx certainly suggested something similar, but his ideas were still far more reaching and grand in scope.br0kenrabbit

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

thank jefferson(you hypocritical sunofabitch), jackson, lincoln and FDR (among a few others) for that.

frannkzappa

And SCOTUS.

definitely the best and most technocratic part of the fed.

Eh, it's up there with the Federal Reserve.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

and look where that lead us...

HoolaHoopMan

The middle class has largely been helped out by government programs.  Where would they be with out labor laws and social security? 

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]...to the largest economy in the world? An economy that created the middle class?

BMD004

The greatness of America was caused by a few lucky moments.

for instance you can thank the technocratic cabinet of FDR and WW2 for the economy.

the middle class (as amazing as it is) was a byproduct of the abundance of land, it had nothing to do with government.

everything America has achieved is in spite of states.

But you and I are so far apart on that issue, and it's a whole different discussion.

And the creation of the middle class is a "byproduct of the abundance of land"? Explain that to me.

the middle class began as the land holding non rich. in Europe such a thing was impossible due to land shortages. in America you could by acres with a single sheep, that is how the middle class came to be. the poor were able to buy land and work and thus become self sustaining...but not rich.

I'm a big fan of the Federal Reserve, not precisely because of what they do, but because they actually have smart guys running it.

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]Basically I'm suggesting no authority beyond the local community. Marx certainly suggested something similar, but his ideas were still far more reaching and grand in scope.foxhound_fox

pfft.. and you called me an idiot.:roll:frannkzappa

I like that idea.foxhound_fox

Grab a torch and we'll get this shit started. :twisted:

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]...to the largest economy in the world? An economy that created the middle class?

BMD004

The middle class has largely been helped out by government programs.  Where would they be with out labor laws and social security? 

Dont mess with Texas.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

And SCOTUS.

coolbeans90

definitely the best and most technocratic part of the fed.

Eh, it's up there with the Federal Reserve.

Grab a torch and we'll get this shit started. :twisted:br0kenrabbit

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]pfft.. and you called me an idiot.:roll:foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]Grab a torch and we'll get this shit started. :twisted:foxhound_fox

technocracy will beat you to it.

The middle class didn't come from having acres and acres. Farmers are, always have been, and probably always will be, poor. It was rapid, rapid, rapid industrialization (partially playing catch up with Europe, plus WWII-induced industrialization, needing TONS of labor to do so, etc.) and possibly some contributions by organized labor, but that is disputable.

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

The middle class didn't come from having acres and acres. Farmers are, always have been, and probably always will be, poor. It was rapid, rapid, rapid industrialization (partially playing catch up with Europe, plus WWII-induced industrialization, needing TONS of labor to do so, etc.) and possibly some contributions by organized labor, but that is disputable.

coolbeans90

Dont mess with Texas.

sonicare

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

V3rciS

yes, FINALLY.

if only it was from someone more reputable.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

definitely the best and most technocratic part of the fed.

frannkzappa

Eh, it's up there with the Federal Reserve.

In practice, it increased currency stability by light years, and is an invaluable institution to deal with recessions.

I'd rather wait and let society crumble and we can rebuild from the ashes.foxhound_fox

Fair enough. Just remember, while everyone else is starving because the fuel isn't getting to the trucks that you can eat clovers and acorns if you first boil them twice. And insects for protien.  :P

And if the nukes drop plants don't soak up radiation, just wash them off. If enough nukes drop that skydark sets in you're on your own...those secrets are mine.

]i'd prefer to live a happy ;ife "controlled" by experts than live as idiot cave people.frannkzappa

The middle class didn't come from having acres and acres. Farmers are, always have been, and probably always will be, poor. It was rapid, rapid, rapid industrialization (partially playing catch up with Europe, plus WWII-induced industrialization, needing TONS of labor to do so, etc.) and possibly some contributions by organized labor, but that is disputable.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]]i'd prefer to live a happy ;ife "controlled" by experts than live as idiot cave people.foxhound_fox

politicians are the bane of society.

i support technocracy.

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

 

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

frannkzappa

yes, FINALLY.

if only it was from someone more reputable.

Except they really don't. They rarely even agree with each other.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Eh, it's up there with the Federal Reserve.

coolbeans90

In practice, it increased currency stability by light years, and is an invaluable institution to deal with recessions.

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

 

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

frannkzappa

yes, FINALLY.

if only it was from someone more reputable.

i support technocracy.frannkzappa

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

The middle class didn't come from having acres and acres. Farmers are, always have been, and probably always will be, poor. It was rapid, rapid, rapid industrialization (partially playing catch up with Europe, plus WWII-induced industrialization, needing TONS of labor to do so, etc.) and possibly some contributions by organized labor, but that is disputable.

sonicare

Plantation owners were not in any meaningful sense analogous to what we refer to in modernity as the middle class.

:P

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

coolbeans90

yes, FINALLY.

if only it was from someone more reputable.

Except they really don't. They rarely even agree with each other.

shuddup for once.:P

i finally found anther platonic technocrat.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

 

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

coolbeans90

yes, FINALLY.

if only it was from someone more reputable.

Except they really don't. They rarely even agree with each other.

 

In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted.

V3rciS

Entirely possible with nuclear fusion. You start with hydrogen, smack that shit together to get helium, and then keep smacking it together to make any element you want.

In the process you get more energy than you put into it, so it's win-win.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]the federal reserve is not nearly as technocratic in practice, though in theory it should be more technocratic.

 

 

frannkzappa

In practice, it increased currency stability by light years, and is an invaluable institution to deal with recessions.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]pfft.. and you called me an idiot.:roll:frannkzappa

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]i support technocracy.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

 

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

coolbeans90

yes, FINALLY.

if only it was from someone more reputable.

Except they really don't. They rarely even agree with each other.

In the process you get more energy than you put into it, so it's win-win.

br0kenrabbit

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

Philosophers are the ones that should rule this world because they understand the principals and needs to create an ideal state.
Currently there's no country with a perfect political system... deep down true communism was supposed to be something really good but it failed because humanity is not ready for an utopia like this. We are biased, our lives are biased.
We will be struggling with wars and poverty simply because resources are limited. In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted. We need to go fully automated, where machines and robots will be producing and maintaning everything we might need for our lives. However the worst obstacle is human himself, greed and autocracy will always dominate, some people simply enjoy being more powerful and have more access to resources than others. They want to be above the others and that's the real problem.

I'll go a little bit offtopic and might sound like science fiction for some people but the only way for us (humanity) to stand united is an invasion by other species. Yes I'm possibly talking about Aliens. And that's sad, because instead of finding common values we always try to look for the opposite. Like how much we differ from the rest. So the only way for humans to feel idd united is when entirely new species are declaring war on us.

lol post eh? I dunno why even write it lol... well whatever.

V3rciS

yes, FINALLY.

if only it was from someone more reputable.

sorry the last sentance was meant for a different post.

No i fully support everything you said.

plato and technocracy for all.

Can't reduce it to one basic thing, political philosophies must satisfy many different goals. If I had to really break it down, I'd say I base my political viewpoints off efficiency, pragmatism and utilitarianism.

[QUOTE="V3rciS"]

 

In the future wars will be even worse, the only way to overcome this problem is to build synthetic resources, the ones that will be unlimitted.

br0kenrabbit

Entirely possible with nuclear fusion. You start with hydrogen, smack that shit together to get helium, and then keep smacking it together to make any element you want.

In the process you get more energy than you put into it, so it's win-win.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

In practice, it increased currency stability by light years, and is an invaluable institution to deal with recessions.

coolbeans90

This is why people don't take you seriously.

i knew that would get you angry... i was joking:P

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

The middle class didn't come from having acres and acres. Farmers are, always have been, and probably always will be, poor. It was rapid, rapid, rapid industrialization (partially playing catch up with Europe, plus WWII-induced industrialization, needing TONS of labor to do so, etc.) and possibly some contributions by organized labor, but that is disputable.

frannkzappa

Having workable land made you self-sufficient, nothing more. Those people were typically worked themselves to the bone for subsistence and were poor. This really is entirely unrelated to what we think of today as the middle class.

our governmental systems are literally the polar opposites of each other.frannkzappa

Frankzappa, you repeatedly mention technocracy as your preferred government. Why?BranKetra

it is a government controlled by experts (who follow platonic ideals) that have absolute power and bring man to it's fullest potential.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]our governmental systems are literally the polar opposites of each other.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

The middle class didn't come from having acres and acres. Farmers are, always have been, and probably always will be, poor. It was rapid, rapid, rapid industrialization (partially playing catch up with Europe, plus WWII-induced industrialization, needing TONS of labor to do so, etc.) and possibly some contributions by organized labor, but that is disputable.

coolbeans90

Having workable land made you self-sufficient, nothing more. Those people were typically worked themselves to the bone for subsistence and were poor. This really is entirely unrelated to what we think of today as the middle class.

did you not take american history in high school?

Isn't that technically impossible according to physics?ghoklebutter

I'm not referring to the matter going in as energy, I was thinking only of the electricity needed to operate the device. In nuclear fusion, you smack two atoms together to form one, but not all parts of the original two atoms nuclei are retained. 0.7% of the mass (in hydrogen fusion, varies depending upon the element being fused) is carried away by kinetic and other forms of energy produced when the nuclear bonds are broken.

Fusion is a hell of a lot more energetic than fission.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

yes, FINALLY.

 

if only it was from someone more reputable.

V3rciS

Except they really don't. They rarely even agree with each other.

Considering that there are real world consequences involved and that they have innumerable mutually exclusive alternatives that they argue for, that is a pretty silly thing to say.

Also, there are various facets of government that should be designed around real-world circumstances which really makes the notion of a singular "ideal" government a rather meaningless concept considering how much that model will vary.