Whats the most successful libertarian/conservative government?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="BMD004"]That is completely false. Here is a list of 10 companies that have moved their headquarters overseas to avoid paying the U.S. taxes: http://www.focus.com/fyi/finance/10-big-businesses-that-have-moved-abroad/ and that is just 10 big companies. There are a LOT of other companies that much prefer the taxes they pay in other countries overseas. And the financial crisis was created by the incentive that the government provided by the extremely low interest rates. The risk-taking was encouraged by the incredibly low rates. Then, Fannie and Freddie (government-sponsored companies) were were encouraged to buy toxic securities. That isn't even up for debate. It's what happened. I don't even need a source for that because it is common knowledge. BMD004

First, I'll address the issue that you say that businesses don't leave because of taxes.

First, here is a 60 minutes report that was done about two months ago about how businesses go overseas to find a tax-haven so that they don't have to pay U.S. taxes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml

If you don't think that a LOT of businesses move to other countries, then I don't know what to tell you other than that you are ignorant about this particular issue.

Now, about the financial crisis. You are trying to treat symptoms instead of the root cause. The #1 main cause of the whole economic mess is Alan Greenspan and the Fed lowering the interest rates to almost nothing. This is what gave incentive for all of the BS that went on with the lending.

we cant sustain on economy based on tax evasion... we are too big. Thats why tiny ass states like delaware do that stuff. Or tiny ass countries like switzerland.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="BMD004"]That is completely false. Here is a list of 10 companies that have moved their headquarters overseas to avoid paying the U.S. taxes: http://www.focus.com/fyi/finance/10-big-businesses-that-have-moved-abroad/ and that is just 10 big companies. There are a LOT of other companies that much prefer the taxes they pay in other countries overseas. And the financial crisis was created by the incentive that the government provided by the extremely low interest rates. The risk-taking was encouraged by the incredibly low rates. Then, Fannie and Freddie (government-sponsored companies) were were encouraged to buy toxic securities. That isn't even up for debate. It's what happened. I don't even need a source for that because it is common knowledge. BMD004

First, I'll address the issue that you say that businesses don't leave because of taxes.

First, here is a 60 minutes report that was done about two months ago about how businesses go overseas to find a tax-haven so that they don't have to pay U.S. taxes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml

If you don't think that a LOT of businesses move to other countries, then I don't know what to tell you other than that you are ignorant about this particular issue.

Now, about the financial crisis. You are trying to treat symptoms instead of the root cause. The #1 main cause of the whole economic mess is Alan Greenspan and the Fed lowering the interest rates to almost nothing. This is what gave incentive for all of the BS that went on with the lending.

(Sweden is hardly socialist, read The Communist Manifesto).Saturos3091

[QUOTE="SoBaus"]

so you think we should model ourselves after china? this is the problem we all come back to... is there is no functional libertarian model, its a pipe dream. But china has WAAAAY more government regulation than the US.

and you honestly might be right, but you also have no proof... and no examples to backup that theory. Its like watching 5 guys try to jump the grand canyon and they all meet a fiery death... but its gonnna work when we try... just cause we are feeling totally stoked. Such bad reasoning.

Saturos3091

not regulations like safety or environmental stuff.... but they are sure more than happy to force companies like GE to hand over patents to their government in order to do business there.... or insisting their government owns part of the business.

If people thought the financial and auto bailouts were bad, their heads would explode when they heard what china demands for the right to do business in their country.

but the thing is, all china's poor worker salaries are constantly going up, the average american worker salary is going down. And eliminating things like minimum wage isnt going to bring that salary up.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Taxes do not and never have had an adverse impact on businesses and that is not why they leave the country. Businesses have to pay for workers and have to abide by government regulations on how much they can work and for what price. . .unless they get workers from a country without such regulations. Taxes on businesses in this country are ridiculously low--yet businesses continue to outsource, not because of taxes but because of cheap labor. During and after the crisis, the government implemented regulations that stopped the issue from escalating or repeating. The only reason why we're on a computer right now instead of begging for food in the streets is because of taxes and government regulation. They (OFHEO) tried investigating Fannie and Freddie years before the crisis and were dismissed "for trying to implement regulation."Theokhoth

First, I'll address the issue that you say that businesses don't leave because of taxes.

First, here is a 60 minutes report that was done about two months ago about how businesses go overseas to find a tax-haven so that they don't have to pay U.S. taxes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml

If you don't think that a LOT of businesses move to other countries, then I don't know what to tell you other than that you are ignorant about this particular issue.

Now, about the financial crisis. You are trying to treat symptoms instead of the root cause. The #1 main cause of the whole economic mess is Alan Greenspan and the Fed lowering the interest rates to almost nothing. This is what gave incentive for all of the BS that went on with the lending.

The best government of all is a dictatorship where the dictator only has the best of interests for his people.

The best government of all is a dictatorship where the dictator only has the best of interests for his people.

GOGOGOGURT

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"](Sweden is hardly socialist, read The Communist Manifesto).Theokhoth

May I ask what you are refering to? I'm familiar with Marx & Engels criticism of what would be a welfare state/social democracy, as well as theory on socialism being but a necessary stepping stone (but not the end itself) towards a stateless Communist society, but not so much a direct criticism of the socialist theory. Or was it those that you were refering?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="BMD004"]

First, I'll address the issue that you say that businesses don't leave because of taxes.

First, here is a 60 minutes report that was done about two months ago about how businesses go overseas to find a tax-haven so that they don't have to pay U.S. taxes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml

If you don't think that a LOT of businesses move to other countries, then I don't know what to tell you other than that you are ignorant about this particular issue.

Now, about the financial crisis. You are trying to treat symptoms instead of the root cause. The #1 main cause of the whole economic mess is Alan Greenspan and the Fed lowering the interest rates to almost nothing. This is what gave incentive for all of the BS that went on with the lending.

BMD004

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Saturos3091"](Sweden is hardly socialist, read The Communist Manifesto)._BlueDuck_

May I ask what you are refering to? I'm familiar with Marx & Engels criticism of what would be a welfare state/social democracy, as well as theory on socialism being but a necessary stepping stone (but not the end itself) towards a stateless Communist society, but not so much a direct criticism of the socialist theory. Or was it those that you were refering?

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

The best government of all is a dictatorship where the dictator only has the best of interests for his people.

surrealnumber5

It's actually true. But only if the dictator made all the right decisions, and he wasn't crazy like stalin or lenin or hitler or saddam or kim jung or qadaffi or...

[QUOTE="_BlueDuck_"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Socialism and Communism are very different things. This is laid out in the Manifesto along with a long and vehement criticism of socialism. Marx and Engles hated socialism. Read the Communist Manifesto.Theokhoth

May I ask what you are refering to? I'm familiar with Marx & Engels criticism of what would be a welfare state/social democracy, as well as theory on socialism being but a necessary stepping stone (but not the end itself) towards a stateless Communist society, but not so much a direct criticism of the socialist theory. Or was it those that you were refering?

Ah yes. There is a good amount of irony there that the welfare state is probably one of the best ways to prevent a communist/socialist revolution. Of course those most scared of that oppose the welfare state just as much.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

The best government of all is a dictatorship where the dictator only has the best of interests for his people.

GOGOGOGURT

It's actually true. But only if the dictator made all the right decisions, and he wasn't crazy like stalin or lenin or hitler or saddam or kim jung or qadaffi or...

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

Uhm, pretty sure you can't imitate. Most successful governments (if there's any) with libertarian socialist ideals are small and cannot be compared to the US. Especially in terms of demographic. Wasn't America built on free market?

SoBaus

think your wrong, us libertarians know we are right and want to have a libertarian US government... we would not willy dilly inflict a completely unproven form of government on the most powerful country in the world... that would be completely illogical and make us mad men.

Finally, someone gets it!

nazi germany

I find it incredible that the extreme views of libertarians and the Tea Party have become so openly adopted in this country. The Republican party is going to come crashing down hard if that keeps up. The questions are when will that be and how much damage will they do before then?mattbbpl

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]I find it incredible that the extreme views of libertarians and the Tea Party have become so openly adopted in this country. The Republican party is going to come crashing down hard if that keeps up. The questions are when will that be and how much damage will they do before then?surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Businesses go to other countries for profits; taxes do not hinder profits. Businesses weren't collapsing left and right when the tax rate was twice as high as it is now and businesses aren't collapsing in countries with a higher corporate tax rate than us. Businesses in certain other countries do not have to adhere to regulations; they do not need to give their employees insurance, they do not have to pay a set minimum wage, they do not need to worry about lawsuits (because workers can't sue), they don't have to worry about strikes or health regulations or any other matter of the sort that does cost them money. So they go to other countries. What we should be doing, rather than encouraging their behavior, is imposing penalties (yes, of the legal kind; regulation) for mass outsourcing; tax them MORE if they send their workers overseas. It gives them less incentive to do so and keeps more jobs in the US. I never said a lot of businesses do not move to other countries; I said they do not move to other countries because of teh taxes. Some businesses in this country just avoid taxes altogether (GE, anyone?). Alan Greenspan and the fed would not have been able to lower the interest rates (or their actions would not have had the consequences they had) if our regulation wasn't so lax at the time. They tried to treat the cause AND symptoms and the Bush Administration dismissed them.Theokhoth

Agreed.

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

The best government of all is a dictatorship where the dictator only has the best of interests for his people.

surrealnumber5