whats the point of smoking????

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"][QUOTE="Atmanix"]

I've met several drug addicts that have quit completely on their own without any kind of 12-step program or support from other people. Stereotyping the world because of your own personal experiences doesn't work.

Atmanix

They did, actually. Again, basing your opinions on your own observations.

They had managed to push everyone out of their lives because of their addictions. They were too ashamed to attend a 12-step program. They made a decision though to stop, endured a lot of pain, and came out on the other end. The only reason I met them is because they crawled out of the holes they were living in to become a member of society again.

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] Standard of living is arrogance. People live, that's what we do. Not everybody on this planet lives the same way. Having more stuff.. living longer.. great. And on the downside.. that type of living hurts everybody. Quality of life is greatly over rated in industrialized societies. By the way.. you can be addicted to gaming. By the way..most old people would rather be alive when they were in their 20's. Nice try though. Nobody wants to be old and waiting to die.EMOEVOLUTION

Nobody wants to die at the age of 20 to polio either. Quality of life doesn't necessarily mean living longer, but living better.

no, not really, its not perception. Its fact.

Would you rather be a hunter-gather, starving 90% of your life?

Or would you rather live in 21st century America, have a good job, good healthcare, and pretty much remain your own person until youre 80 or so. I admit the pill pushing and stuff sucks, but that is mostly because sons or daughters dont want mom or dad to go. My dad made me promise him I would pull the plug if he ever got that weak, and I said yes.

In short, we are comparing living a miserable 35-40 years back in the day to living a wonderful 80 years, with maybe the last year or so being kinda bad.

Really, well. I'd wager their story, or the story you're claiming isn't as clear as you believe it is. As I've said with similar circumstances.. the reality we tell to ourselves and others.. doesn't necessarily always mean were begin honest with the circumstances. The decision was theres.. but they didn't hide themselves in a room away from the world and fix all their problems. It never works that way.

EMOEVOLUTION

Well, trust_nobody is here right now, and HE says that he's one of the people who quit on his own. I think I'd take his word over yours.

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] Standard of living is arrogance. People live, that's what we do. Not everybody on this planet lives the same way. Having more stuff.. living longer.. great. And on the downside.. that type of living hurts everybody. Quality of life is greatly over rated in industrialized societies. By the way.. you can be addicted to gaming. By the way..most old people would rather be alive when they were in their 20's. Nice try though. Nobody wants to be old and waiting to die.EMOEVOLUTION

Nobody wants to die at the age of 20 to polio either. Quality of life doesn't necessarily mean living longer, but living better.

I would personally trade having to get old for dying young any day. Would you not?

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] Standard of living is arrogance. People live, that's what we do. Not everybody on this planet lives the same way. Having more stuff.. living longer.. great. And on the downside.. that type of living hurts everybody. Quality of life is greatly over rated in industrialized societies. By the way.. you can be addicted to gaming. By the way..most old people would rather be alive when they were in their 20's. Nice try though. Nobody wants to be old and waiting to die.EMOEVOLUTION

Nobody wants to die at the age of 20 to polio either. Quality of life doesn't necessarily mean living longer, but living better.

Quality of living is in point of fact largely subjective. However, most people when given the choice would prefer an industrialized setting. People constantly do things which they perceive to make their life better. Ultimately that is what matters to them. I'd say it's pretty difficult to place a value judgement on one's quality of life. Only they really know how much they enjoy their own activities. Perhaps they place a larger value upon smoking than you're willing to digest. Just a thought.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

progress and change takes time, I dont doubt that. Its one thing the Chinese used to be able to grasp; in business dealings, they generally planned with their great great grandchildren in mind, not with themselves and their children in mind like westerners.

I know its a slow progress, but it does happen, and given the fact that humanity will be here for hundreds of thousands or even millions of more years, thats ok because 4000 years is a blink of an eye.

but yes, humanity has definately progressed, no arrogance to that at all.

chrisrooR

lol why dont you ask your parents or grandparents how your standard of living compares to theirs when they were your age? I am sure you will see nothing but honesty and modesty in their eyes

and yet I am sure the children of grandparents in those poor countries are better off than the grandparents ever were, unless of course there was a war or famine or something (that being the exception).

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]Really, well. I'd wager their story, or the story you're claiming isn't as clear as you believe it is. As I've said with similar circumstances.. the reality we tell to ourselves and others.. doesn't necessarily always mean were begin honest with the circumstances. The decision was theres.. but they didn't hide themselves in a room away from the world and fix all their problems. It never works that way.

MrGeezer

Well, trust_nobody is here right now, and HE says that he's one of the people who quit on his own. I think I'd take his word over yours.

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

lol why dont you ask your parents or grandparents how your standard of living compares to theirs when they were your age? I am sure you will see nothing but honesty and modesty in their eyes

mrbojangles25

Good grief you are a downer.

You dont think old people enjoy their families? Seeing their genes passed on, prosper, and enjoying life? And of course we would all want to be 25 forever, who would not? But we cant, so we cope and take joy in what we can, and we dont dwell on the past.

And how is standard of living equate to arrogance? How is something so objective and technical equate to an emotional feeling of snobby superiority?

And yes, I know we can be addicted to gaming. I admitted to having an addiction myself. But guess what? Some people are addicted to soda, some are addicted to chocolate, some are addicted to sex, some are addicted to reality TV. As I said, there are degrees of addicition, and in general its vastly overrated.

you want to talk about imitation? People are imitating being addicted to stuff when in reality they just really, really like what they do and they dont want to stop. Is there a physical/chemical dependency? Sure, but that can apply to anything, even if its good or bad. People might really like working out, but they can stop and they might get a little cranky for a few days without those nice endorphines, but otherwise no biggie. Same goes for 90% of addictions.

Just watch those stupid shows on E or MTV or whatever about rehab. You know why those people cant quit? Because theyre morons who have lost the meaning of life and lack any sort of intestinal fortitude. Theyre weak sissies.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]Really, well. I'd wager their story, or the story you're claiming isn't as clear as you believe it is. As I've said with similar circumstances.. the reality we tell to ourselves and others.. doesn't necessarily always mean were begin honest with the circumstances. The decision was theres.. but they didn't hide themselves in a room away from the world and fix all their problems. It never works that way.

trust_nobody

Well, trust_nobody is here right now, and HE says that he's one of the people who quit on his own. I think I'd take his word over yours.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]Really, well. I'd wager their story, or the story you're claiming isn't as clear as you believe it is. As I've said with similar circumstances.. the reality we tell to ourselves and others.. doesn't necessarily always mean were begin honest with the circumstances. The decision was theres.. but they didn't hide themselves in a room away from the world and fix all their problems. It never works that way.

trust_nobody

Well, trust_nobody is here right now, and HE says that he's one of the people who quit on his own. I think I'd take his word over yours.

likewise :D very proud of myself too, though not so much any more because apparently my addiction wasnt as bad as others that smoked :P

force feeding old people pills and medical treatment so they can die uncomfortably at an old age.. is not the standard of living I want for myself. Sure.. you have your family.. but what does your family know about you at an old age.. they're young, they live in different times.. all their friends are still alive and well.. watching everyone you know die around you.. just so you can get another year out of life while being useless...EMOEVOLUTION

That's why you should smoke, so you can die at a comfotable age :P

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] Standard of living is arrogance. People live, that's what we do. Not everybody on this planet lives the same way. Having more stuff.. living longer.. great. And on the downside.. that type of living hurts everybody. Quality of life is greatly over rated in industrialized societies. By the way.. you can be addicted to gaming. By the way..most old people would rather be alive when they were in their 20's. Nice try though. Nobody wants to be old and waiting to die.EMOEVOLUTION

Good grief you are a downer.

You dont think old people enjoy their families? Seeing their genes passed on, prosper, and enjoying life? And of course we would all want to be 25 forever, who would not? But we cant, so we cope and take joy in what we can, and we dont dwell on the past.

And how is standard of living equate to arrogance? How is something so objective and technical equate to an emotional feeling of snobby superiority?

And yes, I know we can be addicted to gaming. I admitted to having an addiction myself. But guess what? Some people are addicted to soda, some are addicted to chocolate, some are addicted to sex, some are addicted to reality TV. As I said, there are degrees of addicition, and in general its vastly overrated.

you want to talk about imitation? People are imitating being addicted to stuff when in reality they just really, really like what they do and they dont want to stop. Is there a physical/chemical dependency? Sure, but that can apply to anything, even if its good or bad. People might really like working out, but they can stop and they might get a little cranky for a few days without those nice endorphines, but otherwise no biggie. Same goes for 90% of addictions.

Just watch those stupid shows on E or MTV or whatever about rehab. You know why those people cant quit? Because theyre morons who have lost the meaning of life and lack any sort of intestinal fortitude. Theyre weak sissies.

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Well, trust_nobody is here right now, and HE says that he's one of the people who quit on his own. I think I'd take his word over yours.

EMOEVOLUTION

Wow, how truly arrogant.

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

Proud of it too, especially because I had no support in the process.

Atmanix

Wow, how truly arrogant.

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

Good grief you are a downer.

You dont think old people enjoy their families? Seeing their genes passed on, prosper, and enjoying life? And of course we would all want to be 25 forever, who would not? But we cant, so we cope and take joy in what we can, and we dont dwell on the past.

And how is standard of living equate to arrogance? How is something so objective and technical equate to an emotional feeling of snobby superiority?

And yes, I know we can be addicted to gaming. I admitted to having an addiction myself. But guess what? Some people are addicted to soda, some are addicted to chocolate, some are addicted to sex, some are addicted to reality TV. As I said, there are degrees of addicition, and in general its vastly overrated.

you want to talk about imitation? People are imitating being addicted to stuff when in reality they just really, really like what they do and they dont want to stop. Is there a physical/chemical dependency? Sure, but that can apply to anything, even if its good or bad. People might really like working out, but they can stop and they might get a little cranky for a few days without those nice endorphines, but otherwise no biggie. Same goes for 90% of addictions.

Just watch those stupid shows on E or MTV or whatever about rehab. You know why those people cant quit? Because theyre morons who have lost the meaning of life and lack any sort of intestinal fortitude. Theyre weak sissies.

cyberdarkkid

Anyways, I'm going to step out of this conversation now. I've gone off onto to many alternative factors that don't really matter.

Smoking is not logical behavior.

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Well, trust_nobody is here right now, and HE says that he's one of the people who quit on his own. I think I'd take his word over yours.

EMOEVOLUTION

The point of smoking is getting a lung cancer. Isn't this enough for you?

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] Standard of living is arrogance. People live, that's what we do. Not everybody on this planet lives the same way. Having more stuff.. living longer.. great. And on the downside.. that type of living hurts everybody. Quality of life is greatly over rated in industrialized societies. By the way.. you can be addicted to gaming. By the way..most old people would rather be alive when they were in their 20's. Nice try though. Nobody wants to be old and waiting to die.EMOEVOLUTION

Good grief you are a downer.

You dont think old people enjoy their families? Seeing their genes passed on, prosper, and enjoying life? And of course we would all want to be 25 forever, who would not? But we cant, so we cope and take joy in what we can, and we dont dwell on the past.

And how is standard of living equate to arrogance? How is something so objective and technical equate to an emotional feeling of snobby superiority?

And yes, I know we can be addicted to gaming. I admitted to having an addiction myself. But guess what? Some people are addicted to soda, some are addicted to chocolate, some are addicted to sex, some are addicted to reality TV. As I said, there are degrees of addicition, and in general its vastly overrated.

you want to talk about imitation? People are imitating being addicted to stuff when in reality they just really, really like what they do and they dont want to stop. Is there a physical/chemical dependency? Sure, but that can apply to anything, even if its good or bad. People might really like working out, but they can stop and they might get a little cranky for a few days without those nice endorphines, but otherwise no biggie. Same goes for 90% of addictions.

Just watch those stupid shows on E or MTV or whatever about rehab. You know why those people cant quit? Because theyre morons who have lost the meaning of life and lack any sort of intestinal fortitude. Theyre weak sissies.

lets see, experiences with people addicted to drugs....

-one friend addicted to meth at age 14
-two friends returning from Afghanistan, wounded, and addicted to pain medication after healing
-one sister, addicted to cocaine
-three friends, all were alcoholics. They still manage to come downtown with me and not have a sip of booze, though. That is some strong will right there

All resolved their problems on their own

Anyway, I am kind getting depressed with arguing, youre like a sounding board, only everything comes back negative and sad.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; where you might see nothing but tragedy in old age, others might see success and happiness. Youre 25 years old, I was almost as cynical you were up until I graduated, then I realized life is exactly what you want it to be, and there are no delusions.

[QUOTE="cyberdarkkid"][QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] I think you're the one who's getting all your ideas from television. I wonder if you've ever actually even really experienced a person who suffers from addiction or mental illness and observed their behavior.. either you haven't, or you just weren't looking. And force feeding old people pills and medical treatment so they can die uncomfortably at an old age.. is not the standard of living I want for myself. Sure.. you have your family.. but what does your family know about you at an old age.. they're young, they live in different times.. all their friends are still alive and well.. watching everyone you know die around you.. just so you can get another year out of life while being useless...EMOEVOLUTION

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] perception =/= reality.

trust_nobody

Wow, how truly arrogant.

He is implying that you did not get over your addiction by yourself, even though he knows nothing about you as a person, because of his own limited life experiences and observations.

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

Wow, how truly arrogant.

Atmanix

He is implying that you did not get over your addiction by yourself, even though he knows nothing about you as a person, because of his own limited life experiences and observations.

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

Yeah...not sure I follow this logic.

cyberdarkkid

He is implying that you did not get over your addiction by yourself, even though he knows nothing about you as a person, because of his own limited life experiences and observations.

[QUOTE="cyberdarkkid"]

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

He is implying that you did not get over your addiction by yourself, even though he knows nothing about you as a person, because of his own limited life experiences and observations.

trust_nobody

pretty much, just an extremely cynical, depressing, and negative perspective and opinion on things limited to a short life experience.

anyway, I found a new marketing for Gamespot

"Gamespot Off-Topic: Where simple, objectivearguments about smoking turn into heated, personal philosophical debate about the evolution of society"

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

Yeah...not sure I follow this logic.

cyberdarkkid

He is implying that you did not get over your addiction by yourself, even though he knows nothing about you as a person, because of his own limited life experiences and observations.

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

[QUOTE="cyberdarkkid"] Exactly, basing things on his own perception. Which is why I find that pretty ironic.

mrbojangles25

pretty much, just an extremely cynical, depressing, and negative perspective and opinion on things limited to a short life experience.

anyway, I found a new marketing for Gamespot

"Gamespot Off-Topic: Where simple, objectivearguments about smoking turn into heated, personal philosophical debate about the evolution of society"

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

[QUOTE="cyberdarkkid"] Exactly, basing things on his own perception. Which is why I find that pretty ironic.

mrbojangles25

pretty much, just an extremely cynical, depressing, and negative perspective and opinion on things limited to a short life experience.

anyway, I found a new marketing for Gamespot

"Gamespot Off-Topic: Where simple, objectivearguments about smoking turn into heated, personal philosophical debate about the evolution of society"

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="trust_nobody"]

Yeah, no wonder I didn't get it. There's no logic to follow there.

EMOEVOLUTION

pretty much, just an extremely cynical, depressing, and negative perspective and opinion on things limited to a short life experience.

anyway, I found a new marketing for Gamespot

"Gamespot Off-Topic: Where simple, objectivearguments about smoking turn into heated, personal philosophical debate about the evolution of society"

fair enough, dude, just dont be so arrogant to assume your reality and life lessons apply to the rest of us.

I mean you have not even really replied to our arguments, you simply quoted us and then said the same thing for like 20 pages.

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

pretty much, just an extremely cynical, depressing, and negative perspective and opinion on things limited to a short life experience.

anyway, I found a new marketing for Gamespot

"Gamespot Off-Topic: Where simple, objectivearguments about smoking turn into heated, personal philosophical debate about the evolution of society"

mrbojangles25

fair enough, dude, just dont be so arrogant to assume your reality and life lessons apply to the rest of us.

I mean you have not even really replied to our arguments, you simply quoted us and then said the same thing for like 20 pages.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] Human behavior is connected to society. You can't talk about human behavior without talking about society. And what I'm expressing is personal. It's reality. Most people would just rather avoid it.

EMOEVOLUTION

fair enough, dude, just dont be so arrogant to assume your reality and life lessons apply to the rest of us.

I mean you have not even really replied to our arguments, you simply quoted us and then said the same thing for like 20 pages.

the broken record keeps on spinning...

I never said. Though, I understand you believe that's what I'm saying. Most people see things from one perspective at a time. Ultimately everything is left up in the user in the end to over come the addiction.. but that can never be done without the assistance of somebody outside saying something or doing something to effect your behavior. Locking yourself in your room and ending your addiction.. does not work.

EMOEVOLUTION

By locking yourself in a room without using the addiction as an escape you would eventually have to face what made you run in the first place.

Cigarettes have been shown to provide a psychological benefit, not just a "high". It helps to calm the brain down during high stress periods. MattUD1

[QUOTE="cyberdarkkid"]

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

He is implying that you did not get over your addiction by yourself, even though he knows nothing about you as a person, because of his own limited life experiences and observations.

EMOEVOLUTION

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]

I never said. Though, I understand you believe that's what I'm saying. Most people see things from one perspective at a time. Ultimately everything is left up in the user in the end to over come the addiction.. but that can never be done without the assistance of somebody outside saying something or doing something to effect your behavior. Locking yourself in your room and ending your addiction.. does not work.

Morello964

By locking yourself in a room without using the addiction as an escape you would eventually have to face what made you run in the first place.

OK, I truly enjoyed this argument despite the tangent, but I gotta go to work.

Let me just say this:

1. Yes, smoking can be a social thing. We learn various hobbies, habits, and mannerisms from those around us. Some people do it to fit in, some people do it out of curiosity.

2. Smoking is bad for you

3. Smoking has some good aspects to it

4. Smokers are not sheeple, at least most of them are not

5. Nicotine addicition varies from person to person, but is vastly exagerated. The physical/chemical dependency last for less than a week in all people; after that, it is strictly a battle of willpower, no excuses. Its your ass to blame if you cannot quit.

6. There are rational reasons to smoke:
-it feels good
-it is good for stress
-it is a social activity, kinda like sitting around a bonfire listening to stories
-it taste good, depending on your brand

7. Smoking causes far more harm than just cancer, and it also harms those around you if youre stupid enough to do it in a closed environment with nonsmokers

8. If you got kids, dont be a neglectful parent; smoke outside, otherwise your kid will grow up like EMO

[QUOTE="MattUD1"]Cigarettes have been shown to provide a psychological benefit, not just a "high". It helps to calm the brain down during high stress periods. Im_single

You've never heard of a nicotine buzz? They exist, I promise. The problem is that after you have been smoking for a while they become less frequent. So actually, it's the opposite of what you said. You experience them before you're addicted.

Also, if you've read any of the pages in this thread there have been many reasons listed for why people smoke, and the majority of them aren't just to fit in. I'm not saying that smoking is good for you, but try to keep an open mind.

[QUOTE="Morello964"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]

I never said. Though, I understand you believe that's what I'm saying. Most people see things from one perspective at a time. Ultimately everything is left up in the user in the end to over come the addiction.. but that can never be done without the assistance of somebody outside saying something or doing something to effect your behavior. Locking yourself in your room and ending your addiction.. does not work.

EMOEVOLUTION

By locking yourself in a room without using the addiction as an escape you would eventually have to face what made you run in the first place.

Namely because human interaction is inevitable.

[QUOTE="cyberdarkkid"]

[QUOTE="Atmanix"]

He is implying that you did not get over your addiction by yourself, even though he knows nothing about you as a person, because of his own limited life experiences and observations.

EMOEVOLUTION

OK, I truly enjoyed this argument despite the tangent, but I gotta go to work.

Let me just say this:

1. Yes, smoking can be a social thing. We learn various hobbies, habits, and mannerisms from those around us. Some people do it to fit in, some people do it out of curiosity.

2. Smoking is bad for you

3. Smoking has some good aspects to it

4. Smokers are not sheeple, at least most of them are not

5. Nicotine addicition varies from person to person, but is vastly exagerated. The physical/chemical dependency last for less than a week in all people; after that, it is strictly a battle of willpower, no excuses. Its your ass to blame if you cannot quit.

6. There are rational reasons to smoke:
-it feels good
-it is good for stress
-it is a social activity, kinda like sitting around a bonfire listening to stories
-it taste good, depending on your brand

7. Smoking causes far more harm than just cancer, and it also harms those around you if youre stupid enough to do it in a closed environment with nonsmokers

8. If you got kids, dont be a neglectful parent; smoke outside, otherwise your kid will grow up like EMO

mrbojangles25

This is a good summary I think. I too need to go though. Thanks for the discussion.