What's up with all the Islamaphobia in the US now a days?

Well a lot of people don't like many of the principles and practices of islam. For instance some people can't help but be afraid of a religion that wants the clock on things such as women's rights turned back. to the 18th century.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"] So i should go build something that praises the beliefs of Aryans in the vicinity of a concentration camp..because i can...and it's not offensive because after all..i can build it there..

Also, it was NOT in their price range it cost millions of dollars.. plus, they were funded in some cases from unknown sponsors..

That's about as much sense as your statement made...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

"That is the essence of tolerance, peace and understanding. This is not an issue of law, whether religious freedom or local zoning. This is a basic issue of respect of a tragic moment in our history"House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a written statement."

Also a good point.."Santorum compared the ground zero mosque to a minister who wants to builds a church near the location where the Rev. Martin Luther King was killed but preaches racial separation and the notion that King brought his death upon himself."

And the man who will be running said Mosque is one who believes the US had a part in the events that occured on 9/11...

These citations could be found by just searching google by the way..as well as the percentage mentioned above..

John Boehner is an idiotic tool, anything he says is pure cowtowing as he is a two-faced professional politician who cares about nothing but his own personal gains and prejudices.

Santorum is equally idiotic, I don't take anything either of these men ever say seriously.

Again, way to misquote the man, what he said was that harmful American policies help further the Islamoterrorist agenda.

New Yorkers do not have a say in this, it isn't a matter of public opinion. I've said this before, but I can't just start a pertition to have the church near my house torn down because I don't like it, whether or not I get majority support is irrelevant because IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THAT BUILDING AND WORSHIP THERE. Public opinion does not guide all of the laws in this country.

Finally, as stated before, building the mosque there is not a disrespect, it's a sign of tolerance and progress and that we're not giving in to the pressure of terrorism. This acrimony is exactly what Osama bin Laden wants, if he were to read this conversation he'd be laughing at you, not me.

Well a lot of people don't like many of the principles and practices of islam. For instance some people can't help but be afraid of a religion that wants the clock on things such as women's rights turned back. to the 18th century.

htekemerald

Again, not true. Many Muslims support the expansion of women's rights, a strong majority of Muslim women and a slight majority of Muslim men. Sure, this could be seen as a condemnation, but it was the same way in America until women's rights movements started gaining ground. More importantly, a reduction of women's rights is not a belief supported by Islam as a religion, just a small minority of radicals who are afraid of change (sound familiar?) In fact, some Muslim nations such as Morocco are being vey proactive in expanding women's rights.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

theone86

"That is the essence of tolerance, peace and understanding. This is not an issue of law, whether religious freedom or local zoning. This is a basic issue of respect of a tragic moment in our history"House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a written statement."

Also a good point.."Santorum compared the ground zero mosque to a minister who wants to builds a church near the location where the Rev. Martin Luther King was killed but preaches racial separation and the notion that King brought his death upon himself."

And the man who will be running said Mosque is one who believes the US had a part in the events that occured on 9/11...

These citations could be found by just searching google by the way..as well as the percentage mentioned above..

John Boehner is an idiotic tool, anything he says is pure cowtowing as he is a two-faced professional politician who cares about nothing but his own personal gains and prejudices.Santorum is equally idiotic, I don't take anything either of these men ever say seriously. Well then i guess i could just disregard everything you state because i have decided not to take you seriously..

Again, way to misquote the man, what he said was that harmful American policies help further the Islamoterrorist agenda. Link to said quote?..

New Yorkers do not have a say in this, it isn't a matter of public opinion. I've said this before, but I can't just start a pertition to have the church near my house torn down because I don't like it, whether or not I get majority support is irrelevant because IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THAT BUILDING AND WORSHIP THERE. Public opinion does not guide all of the laws in this country. Really?..i was under the impression that the government was for the people and respected their opinion..and just because it's their right doesn't mean they should do it and disrespect the opinion of more then half the city in which it is being built..but i guess i can disregard this statement..as i do not take you seriously..

Finally, as stated before, building the mosque there is not a disrespect, it's a sign of tolerance and progress and that we're not giving in to the pressure of terrorism. This acrimony is exactly what Osama bin Laden wants, if he were to read this conversation he'd be laughing at you, not me. It is not about giving into said pressure..It is about what is respectful and right..Also, you ignored all the other questions posed such as the name..and why it should be built in such close proximity to the site of a horrific event in the history of the US when there's another mosque not far away by any stretch of the word..your only response was "because they can"..But just because they can does not automatically mean it is the right course of action....and i will not stoop to the level of stating others will laugh at your opinion because they do not agree with mine as that is juvenile..

To think a vast majority of Muslims are like those that attacked the Twin Towers is just preposterous, and anyone who thinks that this community center is somehow a trophy to what happened on September 11th are ignorant, giving America a bad name and quite frankly, ****ing themselves

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

theone86

"That is the essence of tolerance, peace and understanding. This is not an issue of law, whether religious freedom or local zoning. This is a basic issue of respect of a tragic moment in our history"House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a written statement."

Also a good point.."Santorum compared the ground zero mosque to a minister who wants to builds a church near the location where the Rev. Martin Luther King was killed but preaches racial separation and the notion that King brought his death upon himself."

And the man who will be running said Mosque is one who believes the US had a part in the events that occured on 9/11...

These citations could be found by just searching google by the way..as well as the percentage mentioned above..

John Boehner is an idiotic tool, anything he says is pure cowtowing as he is a two-faced professional politician who cares about nothing but his own personal gains and prejudices.Santorum is equally idiotic, I don't take anything either of these men ever say seriously. Well then i guess i could just disregard everything you state because i have decided not to take you seriously..

Again, way to misquote the man, what he said was that harmful American policies help further the Islamoterrorist agenda. Link to said quote?..

New Yorkers do not have a say in this, it isn't a matter of public opinion. I've said this before, but I can't just start a pertition to have the church near my house torn down because I don't like it, whether or not I get majority support is irrelevant because IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THAT BUILDING AND WORSHIP THERE. Public opinion does not guide all of the laws in this country. Really?..i was under the impression that the government was for the people and respected their opinion..and just because it's their right doesn't mean they should do it and disrespect the opinion of more then half the city in which it is being built..but i guess i can disregard this statement..as i do not take you seriously..

Finally, as stated before, building the mosque there is not a disrespect, it's a sign of tolerance and progress and that we're not giving in to the pressure of terrorism. This acrimony is exactly what Osama bin Laden wants, if he were to read this conversation he'd be laughing at you, not me. It is not about giving into said pressure..It is about what is respectful and right..Also, you ignored all the other questions posed such as the name..and why it should be built in such close proximity to the site of a horrific event in the history of the US when there's another mosque not far away by any stretch of the word..your only response was "because they can"..But just because they can does not automatically mean it is the right course of action....and i will not stoop to the level of stating others will laugh at your opinion because they do not agree with mine as that is juvenile..

Good for you, I don't care.

Google it.

For the people does not mean that public opinion can sway the legislative process, if the fathers had wanted a direct democracy they would have made one. We have a system where legislators are democratically elected to make laws, while still held in check by the Constitution, which is upheld by other leaders who are appointed by democratically elected leaders. PUBLIC OPINION CANNOT MAKE LAWS. Just like when people used public opinion to defend segregation, this argument is equally as worthless here.

Far is relative, they think they can do the most good by having a mosque there, so that's where they're going to build it. Also, it's not a mosque but a prayer and community center. This is like a YMCA, it serves a different purpose than a mosque.

It's not juvenile, what I meant is that you're playing right into Bin Laden's game. He loves this acrimony, he loves seeing Americans trying to revoke the rights of Muslims because of what his tiny little faction did.

Most of the people against the mosque are people who have legitimate questions about it. Them being Muslims have nothing to do with it.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]Thanks for the history lesson..Now..Who's to say Muslim beliefs are realistic?...Such things are mere opinion.. And..Because they can?..Is that really a good reason to disrespect the horrific deaths of thousands of innocents and the beliefs of the families who lost their husbands, fathers etc when the World Trade Center was destroyed..as well as disregarding the opinions of more then half of New Yorkers..Do they not have a say in regards to what is built near the spot where their fellow citizens were killed? Why name it Cordoba?..The name of the first Muslim Church built in Spain when the Muslims conquered it..In fact it's not about defending the freedom of religion at all..as many have said..

"That is the essence of tolerance, peace and understanding. This is not an issue of law, whether religious freedom or local zoning. This is a basic issue of respect of a tragic moment in our history"House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a written statement."

Also a good point.."Santorum compared the ground zero mosque to a minister who wants to builds a church near the location where the Rev. Martin Luther King was killed but preaches racial separation and the notion that King brought his death upon himself."

And the man who will be running said Mosque is one who believes the US had a part in the events that occured on 9/11...

These citations could be found by just searching google by the way..as well as the percentage mentioned above..

theone86

John Boehner is an idiotic tool, anything he says is pure cowtowing as he is a two-faced professional politician who cares about nothing but his own personal gains and prejudices.Santorum is equally idiotic, I don't take anything either of these men ever say seriously. Well then i guess i could just disregard everything you state because i have decided not to take you seriously..

Again, way to misquote the man, what he said was that harmful American policies help further the Islamoterrorist agenda. Link to said quote?..

New Yorkers do not have a say in this, it isn't a matter of public opinion. I've said this before, but I can't just start a pertition to have the church near my house torn down because I don't like it, whether or not I get majority support is irrelevant because IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THAT BUILDING AND WORSHIP THERE. Public opinion does not guide all of the laws in this country. Really?..i was under the impression that the government was for the people and respected their opinion..and just because it's their right doesn't mean they should do it and disrespect the opinion of more then half the city in which it is being built..but i guess i can disregard this statement..as i do not take you seriously..

Finally, as stated before, building the mosque there is not a disrespect, it's a sign of tolerance and progress and that we're not giving in to the pressure of terrorism. This acrimony is exactly what Osama bin Laden wants, if he were to read this conversation he'd be laughing at you, not me. It is not about giving into said pressure..It is about what is respectful and right..Also, you ignored all the other questions posed such as the name..and why it should be built in such close proximity to the site of a horrific event in the history of the US when there's another mosque not far away by any stretch of the word..your only response was "because they can"..But just because they can does not automatically mean it is the right course of action....and i will not stoop to the level of stating others will laugh at your opinion because they do not agree with mine as that is juvenile..

Good for you, I don't care. Then why take the time debating this topic?..

Google it. I found nothing on it..now please provide a quote..as the mans name is not anywhere to be seen in this discussion...

For the people does not mean that public opinion can sway the legislative process, if the fathers had wanted a direct democracy they would have made one. We have a system where legislators are democratically elected to make laws, while still held in check by the Constitution, which is upheld by other leaders who are appointed by democratically elected leaders. PUBLIC OPINION CANNOT MAKE LAWS. Just like when people used public opinion to defend segregation, this argument is equally as worthless here. Where did i ever state the public could make laws?..I stated that it is wrong to disregard the opinion of those who actually live in the city in which it is to be built and who lost neighbors and friends in the attack on the US...i guess arguing such a thing would be a pointless thing to do with one who believes that it is not offensive to build an insitution that praises the beliefs that resulted in the death and suffering of thousands on a site/near a site in which such suffering occured..

Far is relative, they think they can do the most good by having a mosque there, so that's where they're going to build it. Also, it's not a mosque but a prayer and community center. This is like a YMCA, it serves a different purpose than a mosque. They think they can do more 18 minutes or less away from another mosque?...Really i'd love to understand their logic in coming to this conclusion..and it is an Islamic center...where the islamic idealogy will be practiced..regardless of what they like to call it to lessen it's actual purpose..

It's not juvenile, what I meant is that you're playing right into Bin Laden's game. He loves this acrimony, he loves seeing Americans trying to revoke the rights of Muslims because of what his tiny little faction did. They are not revoking the rights of muslims in anyway...they would be stating that it is offensive to build a Mosque on the site of such an event..if anything..Musims have been catered to MORE since 9/11..(I.E Muslim day at Six flags and a host of other such events..)

Yeah and what a tolerant and open-minded religion that they all follow. And it never causes people to behave violently, unlike those dangerous Buddhists and Mormons we're always hearing about in the news.MaxPred2010

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Unassigned"]It's not a "phobia", it's an opinion.T_REX305

i agree. read this

[QUOTE="T_REX305"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Exactly.krazy-blazer

i agree. read this

They're going to build a Mosque and Islamic Center near the World Trade Center...I seriously doubt that's "Islamaphobia" if that thing's going through.

Snipes_2

Its sad that people are categorising all muslims under the terrorist banner. The preacher or head of the proposed mosque has spoken out against muslim extremists, as far as i am aware.

As long as it is treated as a beacon of peace and prosperity, and not used as a tool, or the 'beachhead' of muslim extremists, i do not see a problem with it.

You can't blame Islam for 9/11. They have the right, they have the money, why not. I thought freedom was what the States were about, this mosque would not jeapordise that freedom.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

They're going to build a Mosque and Islamic Center near the World Trade Center...I seriously doubt that's "Islamaphobia" if that thing's going through.

krazy-blazer

Explain...?

[QUOTE="krazy-blazer"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

They're going to build a Mosque and Islamic Center near the World Trade Center...I seriously doubt that's "Islamaphobia" if that thing's going through.

IAMTHEJOKER88

Explain...?

Its really disgusting, i can't stomach the fact that people hate Islam to this level..

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="MaxPred2010"]Yeah, 'cause there's no reason to dislike islam. I mean, such peaceful people who really haven't hurt anybody. Anyone who doesn't like them is obviously a racist homophobe xenophobe! MaxPred2010

Or what about those ones who sent thousands of troops to war in order to retake a holy city, or burned women alive without any provacation beyond baseless accusations, or tried to discredit scientists whose discoveries they didn't like, or imprisoned and exiled writers whose writings they didn't like, or tortured those suspected of heresay, or created discriminatory laws against people of other religions, or killed natives on a new continent eho they deemed inferior because they did not know the "true" religion, or who kill abortion doctors because they perceive abortion as murder, or who feel they have a right to have their religion taught in schools and dictating federal policies, what were those people called again?

Yeah, bet it doesn't feel too good to a Christian who doesn't support violent measures to have all the heinous acts commited in the name of Christianity used against them, should be a lesson to not do the same to Islam.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]Thanks for the history lesson..Now..Who's to say Muslim beliefs are realistic?...Such things are mere opinion.. And..Because they can?..Is that really a good reason to disrespect the horrific deaths of thousands of innocents and the beliefs of the families who lost their husbands, fathers etc when the World Trade Center was destroyed..as well as disregarding the opinions of more then half of New Yorkers..Do they not have a say in regards to what is built near the spot where their fellow citizens were killed? Why name it Cordoba?..The name of the first Muslim Church built in Spain when the Muslims conquered it..In fact it's not about defending the freedom of religion at all..as many have said..

"That is the essence of tolerance, peace and understanding. This is not an issue of law, whether religious freedom or local zoning. This is a basic issue of respect of a tragic moment in our history"House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a written statement."

Also a good point.."Santorum compared the ground zero mosque to a minister who wants to builds a church near the location where the Rev. Martin Luther King was killed but preaches racial separation and the notion that King brought his death upon himself."

And the man who will be running said Mosque is one who believes the US had a part in the events that occured on 9/11...

These citations could be found by just searching google by the way..as well as the percentage mentioned above..

theone86

John Boehner is an idiotic tool, anything he says is pure cowtowing as he is a two-faced professional politician who cares about nothing but his own personal gains and prejudices.Santorum is equally idiotic, I don't take anything either of these men ever say seriously. Well then i guess i could just disregard everything you state because i have decided not to take you seriously..

Again, way to misquote the man, what he said was that harmful American policies help further the Islamoterrorist agenda. Link to said quote?..

New Yorkers do not have a say in this, it isn't a matter of public opinion. I've said this before, but I can't just start a pertition to have the church near my house torn down because I don't like it, whether or not I get majority support is irrelevant because IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THAT BUILDING AND WORSHIP THERE. Public opinion does not guide all of the laws in this country. Really?..i was under the impression that the government was for the people and respected their opinion..and just because it's their right doesn't mean they should do it and disrespect the opinion of more then half the city in which it is being built..but i guess i can disregard this statement..as i do not take you seriously..

Finally, as stated before, building the mosque there is not a disrespect, it's a sign of tolerance and progress and that we're not giving in to the pressure of terrorism. This acrimony is exactly what Osama bin Laden wants, if he were to read this conversation he'd be laughing at you, not me. It is not about giving into said pressure..It is about what is respectful and right..Also, you ignored all the other questions posed such as the name..and why it should be built in such close proximity to the site of a horrific event in the history of the US when there's another mosque not far away by any stretch of the word..your only response was "because they can"..But just because they can does not automatically mean it is the right course of action....and i will not stoop to the level of stating others will laugh at your opinion because they do not agree with mine as that is juvenile..

Good for you, I don't care. Then why take the time debating this topic?..

Google it. I found nothing on it..now please provide a quote..as the mans name is not anywhere to be seen in this discussion...

For the people does not mean that public opinion can sway the legislative process, if the fathers had wanted a direct democracy they would have made one. We have a system where legislators are democratically elected to make laws, while still held in check by the Constitution, which is upheld by other leaders who are appointed by democratically elected leaders. PUBLIC OPINION CANNOT MAKE LAWS. Just like when people used public opinion to defend segregation, this argument is equally as worthless here. Where did i ever state the public could make laws?..I stated that it is wrong to disregard the opinion of those who actually live in the city in which it is to be built and who lost neighbors and friends in the attack on the US...i guess arguing such a thing would be a pointless thing to do with one who believes that it is not offensive to build an insitution that praises the beliefs that resulted in the death and suffering of thousands on a site/near a site in which such suffering occured..

Far is relative, they think they can do the most good by having a mosque there, so that's where they're going to build it. Also, it's not a mosque but a prayer and community center. This is like a YMCA, it serves a different purpose than a mosque. They think they can do more 18 minutes or less away from another mosque?...Really i'd love to understand their logic in coming to this conclusion..and it is an Islamic center...where the islamic idealogy will be practiced..regardless of what they like to call it to lessen it's actual purpose..

It's not juvenile, what I meant is that you're playing right into Bin Laden's game. He loves this acrimony, he loves seeing Americans trying to revoke the rights of Muslims because of what his tiny little faction did. They are not revoking the rights of muslims in anyway...they would be stating that it is offensive to build a Mosque on the site of such an event..if anything..Musims have been catered to MORE since 9/11..(I.E Muslim day at Six flags and a host of other such events..)

"I mean that they remain in the upper world: but this must not be allowed; they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den, and partake of their labors and honors, whether they are worth having or not."-Socrates

I'm not going to provide a quote. First, I don't have the time. Second, you're the one who made the baseless accusation in the first place, perhaps you should be providing evidence to support your own slanderous claims.

People said the same thing about desegregation. It's not wrong to disregard an opinion when that opinion encroaches on the rights of others. THe New Yorkers who are upset about this are the ones in the wrong for being guided by prejudice.

What people do in the name of religion is not indicative of the religion itself. Islam did not cause those deaths, individuals like Osama Bin Laden did.

A YMCA is not the same thing as a church, it serves a different purpose as an outreach center. This building is not the same as a mosque, it serves a different purpose. Either way, who are you to tell them where they need their mosque? Perhaps they feel the other mosque is too far away, or that it is not sufficient to serve the purpose that this new building will serve, like an outreach center.

That's a weak attempt at detraction, the Six Flags day or any other issues of how Muslims are treated has nothign to do with this issue. Fact, Muslims have a right to build this mosque here. Fact, trying to force them not to build it there is an infringement on their rights. your example has no relevance to the topic at hand.

It's not a "phobia", it's an opinion.Unassigned

You may be unaware of this, but anything that is contrary to progressive beliefs is A.) A phobia, and B.) Hate-driven.

You may be unaware of this, but anything that is contrary to progressive beliefs is A.) A phobia, and B.) Hate-driven.

Palantas

You can't have a legitimate argument against something now-a-days without being called a bigot.

[QUOTE="Unassigned"]It's not a "phobia", it's an opinion.Palantas

You may be unaware of this, but anything that is contrary to progressive beliefs is A.) A phobia, and B.) Hate-driven.

Oh yeah, that's not a fallacy-ridden statement at all:roll:

[QUOTE="I"]

[QUOTE="Unassigned"]It's not a "phobia", it's an opinion.theone86

You may be unaware of this, but anything that is contrary to progressive beliefs is A.) A phobia, and B.) Hate-driven.

Oh yeah, that's not a fallacy-ridden statement at all :roll:

See, your little eye-rolling smiley suggests you're disagreeing with me, in which case, you have some hate-filled agenda, and therefore all your arguments are invalid. And I base this on absolutely nothing. :)

See, your little eye-rolling smiley suggests you're disagreeing with me, in which case, you have some hate-filled agenda, and therefore all your arguments are invalid. And I base this on absolutely nothing. :)

Palantas

You sound surprisingly like Greg Gutfeld...

My views on it are this: If it has connections (whether financial or not) to Islamic countries, then it shouldn't be built. In general, Muslims don't care about the "Islamification" of the US, but Islamic governments do, as it will increase their influence in the region. There's a mosque in Houston that's been known to have ties to the Iranian government which also has a private school. Over there they don't allow the children to play with toys that are "too western" and teach anti-Isreal propaganda to the children; it's disgusting. Because of this, I believe there is legitimate concern as to who is exactly behind the "Islamic center." If the place has been found to not have connections with Islamic countries, and is truly meant to be a peaceful place for Muslims to gather in, I believe there is no problem at all, and that its close proximity to ground zero isn't relevant. dk00111

Frankly I couldn't care less what they do in the Middle East, but I do care about upholding religion freedom in the US. It is quite sad that this is an issue.

Americans seem like they always need to have some sort of enemy out there. Commies worked for a long time, but now they're old news, so Muslims are the new subjects of the traditional Two Minutes Hate. :P

My views on it are this: If it has connections (whether financial or not) to Islamic countries, then it shouldn't be built. In general, Muslims don't care about the "Islamification" of the US, but Islamic governments do, as it will increase their influence in the region. There's a mosque in Houston that's been known to have ties to the Iranian government which also has a private school. Over there they don't allow the children to play with toys that are "too western" and teach anti-Isreal propaganda to the children; it's disgusting. Because of this, I believe there is legitimate concern as to who is exactly behind the "Islamic center."0

If the place has been found to not have connections with Islamic countries, and is truly meant to be a peaceful place for Muslims to gather in, I believe there is no problem at all, and that its close proximity to ground zero isn't relevant. dk00111

I agree with you. But this automatically makes you a bigot and an islamaphobe. Watch out for the OT liberals.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="I"]

You may be unaware of this, but anything that is contrary to progressive beliefs is A.) A phobia, and B.) Hate-driven.

Palantas

Oh yeah, that's not a fallacy-ridden statement at all :roll:

See, your little eye-rolling smiley suggests you're disagreeing with me, in which case, you have some hate-filled agenda, and therefore all your arguments are invalid. And I base this on absolutely nothing. :)

Yeah, only we've explained why the sentiment behind this opposition to the mosque is based on phobia in a coherent and sensical manner. You, on the other hand, have just ignored all those arguments and made a blanket statement implying that all opinions that don't fit in with a liberal agenda are labeled as hate-filled by liberals, fallacy.

It's easy to rationilse a phobia. I may rationilse my fear of flying by citing the chance of crashing, however seeing as the fear is disproportionate to the likelihood of crashing it is a phobia. The same thing can be said of Islamophobes.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

John Boehner is an idiotic tool, anything he says is pure cowtowing as he is a two-faced professional politician who cares about nothing but his own personal gains and prejudices.Santorum is equally idiotic, I don't take anything either of these men ever say seriously. Well then i guess i could just disregard everything you state because i have decided not to take you seriously..

Again, way to misquote the man, what he said was that harmful American policies help further the Islamoterrorist agenda. Link to said quote?..

New Yorkers do not have a say in this, it isn't a matter of public opinion. I've said this before, but I can't just start a pertition to have the church near my house torn down because I don't like it, whether or not I get majority support is irrelevant because IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THAT BUILDING AND WORSHIP THERE. Public opinion does not guide all of the laws in this country. Really?..i was under the impression that the government was for the people and respected their opinion..and just because it's their right doesn't mean they should do it and disrespect the opinion of more then half the city in which it is being built..but i guess i can disregard this statement..as i do not take you seriously..

Finally, as stated before, building the mosque there is not a disrespect, it's a sign of tolerance and progress and that we're not giving in to the pressure of terrorism. This acrimony is exactly what Osama bin Laden wants, if he were to read this conversation he'd be laughing at you, not me. It is not about giving into said pressure..It is about what is respectful and right..Also, you ignored all the other questions posed such as the name..and why it should be built in such close proximity to the site of a horrific event in the history of the US when there's another mosque not far away by any stretch of the word..your only response was "because they can"..But just because they can does not automatically mean it is the right course of action....and i will not stoop to the level of stating others will laugh at your opinion because they do not agree with mine as that is juvenile..

theone86

Good for you, I don't care. Then why take the time debating this topic?..

Google it. I found nothing on it..now please provide a quote..as the mans name is not anywhere to be seen in this discussion...

For the people does not mean that public opinion can sway the legislative process, if the fathers had wanted a direct democracy they would have made one. We have a system where legislators are democratically elected to make laws, while still held in check by the Constitution, which is upheld by other leaders who are appointed by democratically elected leaders. PUBLIC OPINION CANNOT MAKE LAWS. Just like when people used public opinion to defend segregation, this argument is equally as worthless here. Where did i ever state the public could make laws?..I stated that it is wrong to disregard the opinion of those who actually live in the city in which it is to be built and who lost neighbors and friends in the attack on the US...i guess arguing such a thing would be a pointless thing to do with one who believes that it is not offensive to build an insitution that praises the beliefs that resulted in the death and suffering of thousands on a site/near a site in which such suffering occured..

Far is relative, they think they can do the most good by having a mosque there, so that's where they're going to build it. Also, it's not a mosque but a prayer and community center. This is like a YMCA, it serves a different purpose than a mosque. They think they can do more 18 minutes or less away from another mosque?...Really i'd love to understand their logic in coming to this conclusion..and it is an Islamic center...where the islamic idealogy will be practiced..regardless of what they like to call it to lessen it's actual purpose..

It's not juvenile, what I meant is that you're playing right into Bin Laden's game. He loves this acrimony, he loves seeing Americans trying to revoke the rights of Muslims because of what his tiny little faction did. They are not revoking the rights of muslims in anyway...they would be stating that it is offensive to build a Mosque on the site of such an event..if anything..Musims have been catered to MORE since 9/11..(I.E Muslim day at Six flags and a host of other such events..)

"I mean that they remain in the upper world: but this must not be allowed; they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den, and partake of their labors and honors, whether they are worth having or not."-Socrates So the logic is "I'll state I don't care..but then i'll debate anyway"?..

I'm not going to provide a quote. First, I don't have the time. Second, you're the one who made the baseless accusation in the first place, perhaps you should be providing evidence to support your own slanderous claims. Slanderous how? I see no counter sources or anything to prove my statement was in any way slander..i provided a source (I.E. the name of the man quoted)..do you want the direct source from which the men being quoted came from?...I'm sure if it doesn't agree with you then it will be disregarded as something you do not seriously though...so what would be the point?..Regardless...here is the source for said quotes...(http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/14/obamas-support-ground-zero-mosque-draws/) Oh noes fox news is teh evilz! As i stated..you can look on other news sites for the quotes as well..although i doubt you will as you do "not have time" conveniently..yet you have time to post in this thread..

People said the same thing about desegregation. It's not wrong to disregard an opinion when that opinion encroaches on the rights of others. THe New Yorkers who are upset about this are the ones in the wrong for being guided by prejudice. So now you're comparing segregation to terrorism?..They are in no way prejudiced..as i have stated..they believe it is offensive to the memories of those who lost their lives as well as disrespectful to the history of the event that occurred..and still i am waiting for an excuse in regards to why they chose to name it "Cordoba"..

What people do in the name of religion is not indicative of the religion itself. Islam did not cause those deaths, individuals like Osama Bin Laden did. Islam teaches that infidels should be destroyed...as well as those you do not have a "treaty" with..Surah 9:5..

A YMCA is not the same thing as a church, it serves a different purpose as an outreach center. This building is not the same as a mosque, it serves a different purpose. Either way, who are you to tell them where they need their mosque? Perhaps they feel the other mosque is too far away, or that it is not sufficient to serve the purpose that this new building will serve, like an outreach center. Who are you to tell those who suffered losses in the 9/11 attack that they should accept the building of an Islamic center in the proximity of said event..? It is an Islamic center...in which Islamic ideology will be spoken about/spread/taught...these ideas/beliefs bring about acts of terrorism as we have seen on numerous occasions..

That's a weak attempt at detraction, the Six Flags day or any other issues of how Muslims are treated has nothign to do with this issue. Fact, Muslims have a right to build this mosque here. Fact, trying to force them not to build it there is an infringement on their rights. your example has no relevance to the topic at hand. So now protesting is using force? And as i have stated..just because they have the RIGHT to build it does not mean they should ignore the opinion of those who lost family etc on 9/11...And my example is wholly relevant as you stated thatAmericans are "revoking the rights of Muslims" when in fact they are receiving more attention then they ever did before and their rights are being respected to the utmost...Hell, they're "Allah" can't even be mocked for fear of "offending" them..yet other religious figure heads are fair game..

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

John Boehner is an idiotic tool, anything he says is pure cowtowing as he is a two-faced professional politician who cares about nothing but his own personal gains and prejudices.Santorum is equally idiotic, I don't take anything either of these men ever say seriously. Well then i guess i could just disregard everything you state because i have decided not to take you seriously..

Again, way to misquote the man, what he said was that harmful American policies help further the Islamoterrorist agenda. Link to said quote?..

New Yorkers do not have a say in this, it isn't a matter of public opinion. I've said this before, but I can't just start a pertition to have the church near my house torn down because I don't like it, whether or not I get majority support is irrelevant because IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THAT BUILDING AND WORSHIP THERE. Public opinion does not guide all of the laws in this country. Really?..i was under the impression that the government was for the people and respected their opinion..and just because it's their right doesn't mean they should do it and disrespect the opinion of more then half the city in which it is being built..but i guess i can disregard this statement..as i do not take you seriously..

Finally, as stated before, building the mosque there is not a disrespect, it's a sign of tolerance and progress and that we're not giving in to the pressure of terrorism. This acrimony is exactly what Osama bin Laden wants, if he were to read this conversation he'd be laughing at you, not me. It is not about giving into said pressure..It is about what is respectful and right..Also, you ignored all the other questions posed such as the name..and why it should be built in such close proximity to the site of a horrific event in the history of the US when there's another mosque not far away by any stretch of the word..your only response was "because they can"..But just because they can does not automatically mean it is the right course of action....and i will not stoop to the level of stating others will laugh at your opinion because they do not agree with mine as that is juvenile..

theone86

Good for you, I don't care. Then why take the time debating this topic?..

Google it. I found nothing on it..now please provide a quote..as the mans name is not anywhere to be seen in this discussion...

For the people does not mean that public opinion can sway the legislative process, if the fathers had wanted a direct democracy they would have made one. We have a system where legislators are democratically elected to make laws, while still held in check by the Constitution, which is upheld by other leaders who are appointed by democratically elected leaders. PUBLIC OPINION CANNOT MAKE LAWS. Just like when people used public opinion to defend segregation, this argument is equally as worthless here. Where did i ever state the public could make laws?..I stated that it is wrong to disregard the opinion of those who actually live in the city in which it is to be built and who lost neighbors and friends in the attack on the US...i guess arguing such a thing would be a pointless thing to do with one who believes that it is not offensive to build an insitution that praises the beliefs that resulted in the death and suffering of thousands on a site/near a site in which such suffering occured..

Far is relative, they think they can do the most good by having a mosque there, so that's where they're going to build it. Also, it's not a mosque but a prayer and community center. This is like a YMCA, it serves a different purpose than a mosque. They think they can do more 18 minutes or less away from another mosque?...Really i'd love to understand their logic in coming to this conclusion..and it is an Islamic center...where the islamic idealogy will be practiced..regardless of what they like to call it to lessen it's actual purpose..

It's not juvenile, what I meant is that you're playing right into Bin Laden's game. He loves this acrimony, he loves seeing Americans trying to revoke the rights of Muslims because of what his tiny little faction did. They are not revoking the rights of muslims in anyway...they would be stating that it is offensive to build a Mosque on the site of such an event..if anything..Musims have been catered to MORE since 9/11..(I.E Muslim day at Six flags and a host of other such events..)

"I mean that they remain in the upper world: but this must not be allowed; they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den, and partake of their labors and honors, whether they are worth having or not."-Socrates So the logic is "I'll state I don't care..but then i'll debate anyway"?..

I'm not going to provide a quote. First, I don't have the time. Second, you're the one who made the baseless accusation in the first place, perhaps you should be providing evidence to support your own slanderous claims. Slanderous how? I see no counter sources or anything to prove my statement was in any way slander..i provided a source (I.E. the name of the man quoted)..do you want the direct source from which the men being quoted came from?...I'm sure if it doesn't agree with you then it will be disregarded as something you do not seriously though...so what would be the point?..Regardless...here is the source for said quotes...(http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/14/obamas-support-ground-zero-mosque-draws/) Oh noes fox news is teh evilz! As i stated..you can look on other news sites for the quotes as well..although i doubt you will as you do "not have time" conveniently..yet you have time to post in this thread..

People said the same thing about desegregation. It's not wrong to disregard an opinion when that opinion encroaches on the rights of others. THe New Yorkers who are upset about this are the ones in the wrong for being guided by prejudice. So now you're comparing segregation to terrorism?..They are in no way prejudiced..as i have stated..they believe it is offensive to the memories of those who lost their lives as well as disrespectful to the history of the event that occurred..and still i am waiting for an excuse in regards to why they chose to name it "Cordaba"..

What people do in the name of religion is not indicative of the religion itself. Islam did not cause those deaths, individuals like Osama Bin Laden did. Islam teaches that infidels should be destroyed...as well as those you do not have a "treaty" with..Surah 9:5..

A YMCA is not the same thing as a church, it serves a different purpose as an outreach center. This building is not the same as a mosque, it serves a different purpose. Either way, who are you to tell them where they need their mosque? Perhaps they feel the other mosque is too far away, or that it is not sufficient to serve the purpose that this new building will serve, like an outreach center. Who are you to tell those who suffered losses in the 9/11 attack that they should accept the building of an Islamic center in the proximity of said event..? It is an Islamic center...in which Islamic ideology will be spoken about/spread/taught...these ideas/beliefs bring about acts of terrorism as we have seen on numerous occasions..

That's a weak attempt at detraction, the Six Flags day or any other issues of how Muslims are treated has nothign to do with this issue. Fact, Muslims have a right to build this mosque here. Fact, trying to force them not to build it there is an infringement on their rights. your example has no relevance to the topic at hand. So now protesting is using force? And as i have stated..just because they have the RIGHT to build it does not mean they should ignore the opinion of those who lost family etc on 9/11...And my example is wholly relevant as you stated thatAmericans are "revoking the rights of Muslims" when in fact they are receiving more attention then they ever did before and their rights are being respected to the utmost...Hell, they're "Allah" can't even be mocked for fear of "offending" them..yet other religious figure heads are fair game..

No, the logic is that I don't care what you think but I have a duty to argue anyways.

The link you provided had no quotes from the man in charge of the mosque project. You slandered him by taking his words out of context and saying he supports terrorism. You have not yet provided any basis for that.

I believe Cordoba is the name of their organization. As to the rest, it's a view driven by phobia and prejudice. It is prejudice to assign the blame for terrorist actions to everyone in one religion. It is phobia-driven to try and frame this as some victory monument for 9/11. These views simply are not grounded in reality, they are based in fear and prejudice.

And Christianity teaches that homosexuals should be stoned, I don't see every Christian out in the street killing a homosexual every single day of the week, though it has been known to happen so by your logic all Christians are hate-driven homosexual-murdering maniacs.

Saying that having a Islamic community center will bring about more acts of terrorism is prejudicial and phobia-driven.

Yes, they should ignore the opinion. It's a prejudicial opinion and giving in to irrational mob thought is not something these Muslims should be expected to do.

Your examples are not releveant, they are detraction. They are isolated events that are wholly seperate from the issue at hand. Whatever special treatment you perceive Muslims to have is not relevant to their right to build a mosque legally near ground zero.

[QUOTE="dk00111"]My views on it are this: If it has connections (whether financial or not) to Islamic countries, then it shouldn't be built. In general, Muslims don't care about the "Islamification" of the US, but Islamic governments do, as it will increase their influence in the region. There's a mosque in Houston that's been known to have ties to the Iranian government which also has a private school. Over there they don't allow the children to play with toys that are "too western" and teach anti-Isreal propaganda to the children; it's disgusting. Because of this, I believe there is legitimate concern as to who is exactly behind the "Islamic center."0

If the place has been found to not have connections with Islamic countries, and is truly meant to be a peaceful place for Muslims to gather in, I believe there is no problem at all, and that its close proximity to ground zero isn't relevant. airshocker

I agree with you. But this automatically makes you a bigot and an islamaphobe. Watch out for the OT liberals.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Good for you, I don't care. Then why take the time debating this topic?..

Google it. I found nothing on it..now please provide a quote..as the mans name is not anywhere to be seen in this discussion...

For the people does not mean that public opinion can sway the legislative process, if the fathers had wanted a direct democracy they would have made one. We have a system where legislators are democratically elected to make laws, while still held in check by the Constitution, which is upheld by other leaders who are appointed by democratically elected leaders. PUBLIC OPINION CANNOT MAKE LAWS. Just like when people used public opinion to defend segregation, this argument is equally as worthless here. Where did i ever state the public could make laws?..I stated that it is wrong to disregard the opinion of those who actually live in the city in which it is to be built and who lost neighbors and friends in the attack on the US...i guess arguing such a thing would be a pointless thing to do with one who believes that it is not offensive to build an insitution that praises the beliefs that resulted in the death and suffering of thousands on a site/near a site in which such suffering occured..

Far is relative, they think they can do the most good by having a mosque there, so that's where they're going to build it. Also, it's not a mosque but a prayer and community center. This is like a YMCA, it serves a different purpose than a mosque. They think they can do more 18 minutes or less away from another mosque?...Really i'd love to understand their logic in coming to this conclusion..and it is an Islamic center...where the islamicidealogy will be practiced..regardless of what they like to call it to lessen it's actual purpose..

It's not juvenile, what I meant is that you're playing right into Bin Laden's game. He loves this acrimony, he loves seeing Americans trying to revoke the rights of Muslims because of what his tiny little faction did. They are not revoking the rights of muslims in anyway...they would be stating that it is offensive to build a Mosque on the site of such an event..if anything..Musims have been catered to MORE since 9/11..(I.E Muslim day at Six flags and a host of other such events..)

theone86

"I mean that they remain in the upper world: but this must not be allowed; they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den, and partake of their labors and honors, whether they are worth having or not."-Socrates So the logic is "I'll state I don't care..but then i'll debate anyway"?..

I'm not going to provide a quote. First, I don't have the time. Second, you're the one who made the baseless accusation in the first place, perhaps you should be providing evidence to support your own slanderous claims. Slanderous how? I see no counter sources or anything to prove my statement was in any way slander..i provided a source (I.E. the name of the man quoted)..do you want the direct source from which the men being quoted came from?...I'm sure if it doesn't agree with you then it will be disregarded as something you do not seriously though...so what would be the point?..Regardless...here is the source for said quotes...(http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/14/obamas-support-ground-zero-mosque-draws/) Oh noes fox news is tehevilz! As i stated..you can look on other news sites for the quotes as well..although i doubt you will as you do "not have time" conveniently..yet you have time to post in this thread..

People said the same thing about desegregation. It's not wrong to disregard an opinion when that opinion encroaches on the rights of others. THe New Yorkers who are upset about this are the ones in the wrong for being guided by prejudice. So now you're comparing segregation to terrorism?..They are in no way prejudiced..as i have stated..they believe it is offensive to the memories of those who lost their lives as well as disrespectful to the history of the event that occurred..and still i am waiting for an excuse in regards to why they chose to name it "Cordaba"..

What people do in the name of religion is not indicative of the religion itself. Islam did not cause those deaths, individuals like Osama Bin Laden did. Islam teaches that infidels should be destroyed...as well as those you do not have a "treaty" with..Surah 9:5..

A YMCA is not the same thing as a church, it serves a different purpose as an outreach center. This building is not the same as a mosque, it serves a different purpose. Either way, who are you to tell them where they need their mosque? Perhaps they feel the other mosque is too far away, or that it is not sufficient to serve the purpose that this new building will serve, like an outreach center. Who are you to tell those who suffered losses in the 9/11 attack that they should accept the building of an Islamic center in the proximity of said event..? It is an Islamic center...in which Islamic ideology will be spoken about/spread/taught...these ideas/beliefs bring about acts of terrorism as we have seen on numerous occasions..

That's a weak attempt at detraction, the Six Flags day or any other issues of how Muslims are treated has nothign to do with this issue. Fact, Muslims have a right to build this mosque here. Fact, trying to force them not to build it there is an infringement on their rights. your example has no relevance to the topic at hand. So now protesting is using force? And as i have stated..just because they have the RIGHT to build it does not mean they should ignore the opinion of those who lost family etc on 9/11...And my example is wholly relevant as you stated thatAmericans are "revoking the rights of Muslims" when in fact they are receiving more attention then they ever did before and their rights are being respected to the utmost...Hell, they're "Allah" can't even be mocked for fear of "offending" them..yet other religious figure heads are fair game..

No, the logic is that I don't care what you think but I have a duty to argue anyways. Interesting...

The link you provided had no quotes from the man in charge of the mosque project. You slandered him by taking his words out of context and saying he supports terrorism. You have not yet provided any basis for that. You have absolutely zero proof to show they were taken out of context..therefore you cannot cry slander..and i never stated he supported terrorism regardless...i stated that he believed the US contributed to the events that occured 9/11...

I believe Cordoba is the name of their organization. As to the rest, it's a view driven by phobia and prejudice. It is prejudice to assign the blame for terrorist actions to everyone in one religion. It is phobia-driven to try and frame this as some victory monument for 9/11. These views simply are not grounded in reality, they are based in fear and prejudice. I don't believe so...and even then..why name the Church that..? And anyway According to who?..You?..Well i don't take you seriously therefore i disregard this statement...see how immature stating such a thing is?..They are heavily grounded in reality...just within the past decade there have been NUMEROUS attacks/attempted attacks on innocents..all attackers hailed from the same religious group..therefore..building something in which the Islamic ideology will be taught etc could be deemed disrespectful and offensive to the memories of those who lost their lives as a result of said teachings..

And Christianity teaches that homosexuals should be stoned, I don't see every Christian out in the street killing a homosexual every single day of the week, though it has been known to happen so by your logic all Christians are hate-driven homosexual-murdering maniacs. You could not be farther from the actual teachings..Christians are taught to be forgiving and accepting..if the time was taken to do some research on the teachings perhaps you would have known this..they do not in any way preach violence..also..provide a source and the Bible name for your statement..and why bring Christianity into this?..This discussion has nothing to do with it...Islamic teaching has been proven to result in acts/attempted acts of mass murder as i have stated numerous proofs of this have occured within the past decade..

Saying that having a Islamic community center will bring about more acts of terrorism is prejudicial and phobia-driven. Not at all...it's coming to a conclusion based on past events...besides...Phobia is fear...there's no fear..in fact..people don't mind Muslims at all..they just don't want a place being built in the vicinity of a spot where said places teachings/ideas resulted in mass murder..

Yes, they should ignore the opinion. It's a prejudicial opinion and giving in to irrational mob thought is not something these Muslims should be expected to do. How is it prejudiced to state that building a place where a religion that caused the deaths of THOUSANDS of innocents would be disrespectful and offensive?

Your examples are not releveant, they are detraction. They are isolated events that are wholly seperate from the issue at hand. Whatever special treatment you perceive Muslims to have is not relevant to their right to build a mosque legally near ground zero. Then stop bringing up their rights as a whole if my events..which were not isolated mind you as Muslim day occurs annually and the other event is continuous..and if they are irrelevant then as i stated..do not bring up Muslim rights as a whole...and as i have stated NUMEROUS times...just because they have the right to does not mean that they should..

Probably because US is waging war in several Muslim countries, and suffered terrorist attacks by Muslims? Pretty obvious why there is Islamophobia in the states.F1_2004

This. I thought it was obvious...

Americans seem like they always need to have some sort of enemy out there. Commies worked for a long time, but now they're old news, so Muslims are the new subjects of the traditional Two Minutes Hate. :P

GabuEx

People need someone to hate.

don't go to yahoo if you want hope.smc91352

But I am an OT liberal... :?

dk00111

Liberals eat their own. Didn't you know? :)

[QUOTE="MaxPred2010"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] First, Islam isn't a group of people; it's a religion. Second, whether you like Islam or not is besides the point; chances are, most Muslims do not want to take over the country with Sharia law. But I do I agree that spewing labels like that really doesn't help anything.JigglyWiggly_

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="MaxPred2010"] Yeah and what a tolerant and open-minded religion that they all follow. And it never causes people to behave violently, unlike those dangerous Buddhists and Mormons we're always hearing about in the news.MaxPred2010