What's your opinion on Edward Snowden, the NSA and surveillance of the internet?

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I'm curious what you guys think of him, the NSA, and the apparent trampling of rights going on deep within the government. 

Did he do the right thing? Will anything meaningful come out of this, or will people sit back and accept the NSA probing into their every e-mail, phone call and text?

This is the new America. One not based on freedoms and the Constitution, but based on the Communist Manifesto. Enjoy it, you guys voted for it.

He did the right thing,in my opinion.

There's the argument that the printing press is largely responsible for the rise of modern democracy.

The internet is still a nascent technology and its effects on governance are just now starting to be felt. Where will it lead? The future is veiled, but here we go.

it's a tough one but i think edward snowden should be punished for breaking his vow of secrecy. i am against all the tracking and listening in on internet activity but i struggle to see him as a whistle blower or anything like that. i haven't heard any cases of misuse of the information obtained and as far as i understand it has all been constitutional. i can't follow his motives and i strongly doubt this will do any good to his so-called cause.

as for the actual surveillance program; it was best depicted in an article i read this week which translates along the lines of "as a response to a bunch of people that hate freedom we voluntarily put ourselves in shackles".

it's a tough one but i think edward snowden should be punished for breaking his vow of secrecy. i am against all the tracking and listening in on internet activity but i struggle to see him as a whistle blower or anything like that. i haven't heard any cases of misuse of the information obtained and as far as i understand it has all been constitutional. i can't follow his motives and i strongly doubt this will do any good to his so-called cause.

as for the actual surveillance program; it was best depicted in an article i read this week which translates along the lines of "as a response to a bunch of people that hate freedom we voluntarily put ourselves in shackles".

BLKR4330

it's a tough one but i think edward snowden should be punished for breaking his vow of secrecy. i am against all the tracking and listening in on internet activity but i struggle to see him as a whistle blower or anything like that. i haven't heard any cases of misuse of the information obtained and as far as i understand it has all been constitutional. i can't follow his motives and i strongly doubt this will do any good to his so-called cause.

as for the actual surveillance program; it was best depicted in an article i read this week which translates along the lines of "as a response to a bunch of people that hate freedom we voluntarily put ourselves in shackles".

BLKR4330

This is the new America. One not based on freedoms and the Constitution, but based on the Communist Manifesto. Enjoy it, you guys voted for it.

AHUGECAT

What parts of the Communist Manifesto are you referring to exactly, and in what ways are these new programs based on it?

it's a tough one but i think edward snowden should be punished for breaking his vow of secrecy. i am against all the tracking and listening in on internet activity but i struggle to see him as a whistle blower or anything like that. i haven't heard any cases of misuse of the information obtained and as far as i understand it has all been constitutional. i can't follow his motives and i strongly doubt this will do any good to his so-called cause.

as for the actual surveillance program; it was best depicted in an article i read this week which translates along the lines of "as a response to a bunch of people that hate freedom we voluntarily put ourselves in shackles".

BLKR4330

This isn't some random government stiff who found some classified information and decided to share it for the greater good. He went in with an agenda, and that suggests to me that he's no patriot. If he was, he would be noble enough to take the consequences of his actions, not hide out in the belly of one of our biggest sociopolitical rivals.

This isn't some random government stiff who found some classified information and decided to share it for the greater good. He went in with an agenda, and that suggests to me that he's no patriot. If he was, he would be noble enough to take the consequences of his actions, not hide out in the belly of one of our biggest sociopolitical rivals.

jimkabrhel

I support what hes done and I think the EU should grow a pair of balls and tell the US to fck off and keep that shit on their own truf

The whole political game on top of him is very entertaining. It forces him and the governments involved into extremely awkward and contraditory stands on the whole matter. It's another embarrassment to the U.S. foreign policy with the added sh!tstorm on the domestic side.

This isn't some random government stiff who found some classified information and decided to share it for the greater good. He went in with an agenda, and that suggests to me that he's no patriot. If he was, he would be noble enough to take the consequences of his actions, not hide out in the belly of one of our biggest sociopolitical rivals.

jimkabrhel

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

This isn't some random government stiff who found some classified information and decided to share it for the greater good. He went in with an agenda, and that suggests to me that he's no patriot. If he was, he would be noble enough to take the consequences of his actions, not hide out in the belly of one of our biggest sociopolitical rivals.

chrisrooR

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

He went in with an agenda. While I agree that the governemtn should be spying too much, I'm concerned about other important calssifed information that he suggests he might leak to the media that could put more than just the US government at risk. If he has information that would put US citizens at risk, then I truly question his motives.

[QUOTE="BLKR4330"]

it's a tough one but i think edward snowden should be punished for breaking his vow of secrecy. i am against all the tracking and listening in on internet activity but i struggle to see him as a whistle blower or anything like that. i haven't heard any cases of misuse of the information obtained and as far as i understand it has all been constitutional. i can't follow his motives and i strongly doubt this will do any good to his so-called cause.

as for the actual surveillance program; it was best depicted in an article i read this week which translates along the lines of "as a response to a bunch of people that hate freedom we voluntarily put ourselves in shackles".

Person0

are you referring to misuse of the information? as i said i am against the collecting of this information and that is because i believe the chances of misuse are very high (and i value a certain amount of freedom over anything). had he come out with a pile of cases, or structural misuse of the information, this would be a different story for me. now he's just causing a world of trouble in international relations and all for what? this whole debate has turned into a debate about him (where is he?, where is he going?, is he a hero? etc, etc) when we should actually be debating (or more specifically, should have debated some time ago) in what kind of world we want to live.

He revealed certain information because of the potential threat it will be for the democratic republic of the United States.BranKetra

the US government has come forward to defend this program by stating the opposite, it actually protects the US and its citizens. the people that made this possible were voted for. i recall to have seen figures of apparently recent surveys that indicate that around half the population thinks that what's happening is okay to stop terrorism. we might not like it but i see what's going on as an outcome of a democratic process. he is free to question all of this, like i myself do too, but he is not free to reveal information that has been entrusted to him and he has vowed to keep secret.

Friggin' ridiculous.


Dude wasted his life and made his girlfriend and parents sad. He'll live his life in paranoia of getting teh assasinationz and the only thing that will come out of this will be his face on the newspaper around the world for a few months. For the majority, this is good entertainment but it's not gonna change anything.


Also, gee whatta ***** surprise, you mean US is monitoring people!?!?!?!?!? SHOCKER! 

Plus, what's with the escape plan? Feels kinda like he half-assed that.

I have no opinion on him outside of being a badass and eluding the Americans, Chinese, and Russians. Can't wait for the film version.

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

This isn't some random government stiff who found some classified information and decided to share it for the greater good. He went in with an agenda, and that suggests to me that he's no patriot. If he was, he would be noble enough to take the consequences of his actions, not hide out in the belly of one of our biggest sociopolitical rivals.

jimkabrhel

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

He went in with an agenda. While I agree that the governemtn should be spying too much, I'm concerned about other important calssifed information that he suggests he might leak to the media that could put more than just the US government at risk. If he has information that would put US citizens at risk, then I truly question his motives.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"] It doesn't appear to me he went in with an agenda. It appears that he caught a large-scale data mining operation that was unconstitutional in nature and didn't want to be a part of it. Being patriotic is f*cking stupid, when a true 'patriot' would be upholding constitutional rights. chrisrooR

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

He went in with an agenda. While I agree that the governemtn should be spying too much, I'm concerned about other important calssifed information that he suggests he might leak to the media that could put more than just the US government at risk. If he has information that would put US citizens at risk, then I truly question his motives.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"] It doesn't appear to me he went in with an agenda. It appears that he caught a large-scale data mining operation that was unconstitutional in nature and didn't want to be a part of it. Being patriotic is f*cking stupid, when a true 'patriot' would be upholding constitutional rights. chrisrooR

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

He went in with an agenda. While I agree that the governemtn should be spying too much, I'm concerned about other important calssifed information that he suggests he might leak to the media that could put more than just the US government at risk. If he has information that would put US citizens at risk, then I truly question his motives.

Except that much of the information was obtained with a court order. I'm not naive. I know that the government spies and has done so for YEARS. I have yet to see evidence that the government is using this information indiscriminatly to arrest random citizens.

How is there a difference between the government monitoring communications and corporations doing the same thing or major webiste, taking a recording private information?

All of this anger against the government is one thing, some of it warranted, but data mining is something that companies and corproations do, but they never get criticism for it.

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

He went in with an agenda. While I agree that the governemtn should be spying too much, I'm concerned about other important calssifed information that he suggests he might leak to the media that could put more than just the US government at risk. If he has information that would put US citizens at risk, then I truly question his motives.

jimkabrhel

Except that much of the information was obtained with a court order. I'm not naive. I know that the government spies and has done so for YEARS. I have yet to see evidence that the government is using this information indiscriminatly to arrest random citizens.

How is there a difference between the government monitoring communications and corporations doing the same thing or major webiste, taking a recording private information?

All of this anger against the government is one thing, some of it warranted, but data mining is something that companies and corproations do, but they never get criticism for it.

>All of this anger against the government is one thing, some of it warranted, but data mining is something that companies and corproations do, but they never get criticism for it.  

Companies and corporations cannot arrest, convict, and imprison you.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"] Great. Question his motives, but ignore the larger issue of the government DIRECTLY taking emails, texts and phone calls with NO screening or probable cause. It's against your constitution. That seems, to me at least, to be the important part of this whole ordeal. Person0

Except that much of the information was obtained with a court order. I'm not naive. I know that the government spies and has done so for YEARS. I have yet to see evidence that the government is using this information indiscriminatly to arrest random citizens.

How is there a difference between the government monitoring communications and corporations doing the same thing or major webiste, taking a recording private information?

All of this anger against the government is one thing, some of it warranted, but data mining is something that companies and corproations do, but they never get criticism for it.

Considering all the corporate money involved in politics, there isn't a clear line between the two. I don't have any faith in the SCOTUS providing any leadership on this issue, nor Congress. They were complicit in the Patriot Act, and are supporting this now. 

As I said, my biggest concern isn't the whistleblowing of government surveillance. That's just stating the obvious. If there are important secrets that Snowden leaks that could hurt American citizens, that concerns me. 

Veiled threats from Snowden and Greenwald about more information seem like retaliation, rather than elightenment.

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

Except that much of the information was obtained with a court order. I'm not naive. I know that the government spies and has done so for YEARS. I have yet to see evidence that the government is using this information indiscriminatly to arrest random citizens.

How is there a difference between the government monitoring communications and corporations doing the same thing or major webiste, taking a recording private information?

All of this anger against the government is one thing, some of it warranted, but data mining is something that companies and corproations do, but they never get criticism for it.

jimkabrhel

Considering all the corporate money involved in politics, there isn't a clear line between the two. I don't have any faith in the SCOTUS providing any leadership on this issue, nor Congress. They were complicit in the Patriot Act, and are supporting this now. 

As I said, my biggest concern isn't the whistleblowing of government surveillance. That's just stating the obvious. If there are important secrets that Snowden leaks that could hurt American citizens, that concerns me. 

Veiled threats from Snowden and Greenwald about more information seem like retaliation, rather than elightenment.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] Well warrants were approved 99.97% of the time so its not like a warrant means anything. Private companies don't have as big of a picture as the government does.chrisrooR

Considering all the corporate money involved in politics, there isn't a clear line between the two. I don't have any faith in the SCOTUS providing any leadership on this issue, nor Congress. They were complicit in the Patriot Act, and are supporting this now. 

As I said, my biggest concern isn't the whistleblowing of government surveillance. That's just stating the obvious. If there are important secrets that Snowden leaks that could hurt American citizens, that concerns me. 

Veiled threats from Snowden and Greenwald about more information seem like retaliation, rather than elightenment.

A superhero who hides in a country that is more corrupt than our, where curveillance is probably worse? Class move.

It's great that he showed us what the government is doing, but I don't agree on putting him on a pedestal.

A superhero who hides in a country that is more corrupt than our, where curveillance is probably worse? Class move.

It's great that he showed us what the government is doing, but I don't agree on putting him on a pedestal.

jimkabrhel

He went in and exposed this junk? Good on him, he's probably going threough hell, but I'd rather have privacy and freedom then the government looking at my stuff for 'secruity'. I believe there is a quote from Ben Franklin along the lines of 'Those who trade freedom for secrutiy deserve neither',which I agree with....on the other hand, what is the harm of the NSA knowing people like porn:P

It's nothing new.  I already assumed the Government was scanning emails and phone calls.

He went in and exposed this junk? Good on him, he's probably going threough hell, but I'd rather have privacy and freedom then the government looking at my stuff for 'secruity'. I believe there is a quote from Ben Franklin along the lines of 'Those who trade freedom for secrutiy deserve neither',which I agree with....on the other hand, what is the harm of the NSA knowing people like porn:P

Bardock47

A superhero who hides in a country that is more corrupt than our, where curveillance is probably worse? Class move.

It's great that he showed us what the government is doing, but I don't agree on putting him on a pedestal.

jimkabrhel

I agree with your second sentence though. People placing this guy as some sort of saint are insane. The focus from everyone including the media should be on what he leaked out, not the guy himself.

[QUOTE="Bardock47"]

He went in and exposed this junk? Good on him, he's probably going threough hell, but I'd rather have privacy and freedom then the government looking at my stuff for 'secruity'. I believe there is a quote from Ben Franklin along the lines of 'Those who trade freedom for secrutiy deserve neither',which I agree with....on the other hand, what is the harm of the NSA knowing people like porn:P

chrisrooR

Edward Snowden is a good man, and I feel proud that such people still exist. Whoever said he should be punished is a moron.

PS: American goverment has crossed the limits... it needs to stop acting like a world police. Nobody hired them to do that. Just deal with your internal matters and I'm pretty sure nobody will even bother you ever again.

It's nothing new.  I already assumed the Government was scanning emails and phone calls.

GOGOGOGURT

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

It's nothing new.  I already assumed the Government was scanning emails and phone calls.

chrisrooR

After 9/11, people willingly gave up their rights.  I was not one of them.  I think it's hilarious how people are getting pissed off about it, when they were all for it 10 years ago.

Edward Snowden is a good man, and I feel proud that such people still exist. Whoever said he should be punished is a moron.

PS: American goverment has crossed the limits... it needs to stop acting like a world police. Nobody hired them to do that. Just deal with your internal matters and I'm pretty sure nobody will even bother you ever again.

V3rciS

Who's bothering us?

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

It's nothing new.  I already assumed the Government was scanning emails and phone calls.

chrisrooR

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

He went in with an agenda. While I agree that the governemtn should be spying too much, I'm concerned about other important calssifed information that he suggests he might leak to the media that could put more than just the US government at risk. If he has information that would put US citizens at risk, then I truly question his motives.

jimkabrhel

Except that much of the information was obtained with a court order. I'm not naive. I know that the government spies and has done so for YEARS. I have yet to see evidence that the government is using this information indiscriminatly to arrest random citizens.

How is there a difference between the government monitoring communications and corporations doing the same thing or major webiste, taking a recording private information?

All of this anger against the government is one thing, some of it warranted, but data mining is something that companies and corproations do, but they never get criticism for it.

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

It's nothing new.  I already assumed the Government was scanning emails and phone calls.

chrisrooR

He supposedly has complete lists of undercover agents the US maintains around the world. He needsvto be caught and returned before he costs those people (and possibly their families) their lives. If he seriously believes in what he did, he can prove it at his trial.

If he seriously believes in what he did, he can prove it at his trial.

OrkHammer007

I don't see the big deal honestly.

Did everyone here honestly think the NSA/FBI/CIA wasn't already spying on EVERYONE in EVERY WAY?

Why this is such a big revelation, I'll never understand.

This has been going on for decades, through varous mediums.

I don't see why everyone is so upset about it now.

[QUOTE="OrkHammer007"]

If he seriously believes in what he did, he can prove it at his trial.

Saturos3091

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

It's nothing new.  I already assumed the Government was scanning emails and phone calls.

GOGOGOGURT

After 9/11, people willingly gave up their rights.  I was not one of them.  I think it's hilarious how people are getting pissed off about it, when they were all for it 10 years ago.

Willingly? Who?

A bunch of ignorant politicians desperate for votes and afraid to look like "terrorist supporters" voted for it.

Hey - would you vote against a bill named "The PATRIOT ACT" during an era of paranoia and fear whilst trying to win or keep office?

They were all cowards and they gave the terrorists exactly what they wanted - FEAR.

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="OrkHammer007"]

If he seriously believes in what he did, he can prove it at his trial.

OrkHammer007

I don't see the big deal honestly.

Did everyone here honestly think the NSA/FBI/CIA wasn't already spying on EVERYONE in EVERY WAY?

Why this is such a big revelation, I'll never understand.

This has been going on for decades, through varous mediums.

I don't see why everyone is so upset about it now.

Netherscourge

Please. Don't use the "I don't understand why this is such a big revelation" defense.It doesn't make it any less unconstitutional. And it most certainly has NOT been going on for decades on THIS scale.

And it was never really confirmed solidly before that. It's a big deal because combined with the patriot act, this essentially allows the government to RETROACTIVELY open any communication, email or any other electronic digitally connected medium linked to you from any point in your life to use it against you.

Again, respond to my post above.

". Look, if you guys are cool with this, and wish to remain passive...that's fine. But don't ever bring up your 'rights' again. Because if you're willing to sacrifice any of them it should be the right to carry weapons. It's the casual nature of "oh, they've been spying on us for a while now", but whenever someone mentions gun control "DON'T TAKE MEH GUNS THE GOVERNMENT WILL OVERTHROW US!!!!". Seems senseless to get worked up about the latter, when the former is much more important."

It baffles me how little people care about this level of invasion of privacy, especially in relation to their right to carry a firearm.