What's your position on leaving a tip?

I dont do tips, they are getting paid to walk around and take orders, it is the same with delivery drivers, they are getting paid to drive. I hate it when you eat with a big group and they take gratuity, that always pisses me off.

ramjam23

Ignore this if you aren't from America. That's terrible... Delivery drivers are at least getting paid minimum wage, servers typically make at least $3 under minimum wage. If you don't like the tipping system don't eat out in restaurants where you are served by people.

[QUOTE="ramjam23"]

I dont do tips, they are getting paid to walk around and take orders, it is the same with delivery drivers, they are getting paid to drive. I hate it when you eat with a big group and they take gratuity, that always pisses me off.

bigdrew172

Ignore this if you aren't from America. That's terrible... Delivery drivers are at least getting paid minimum wage, servers typically make at least $3 under minimum wage. If you don't like the tipping system don't eat out in restaurants where you are served by people.

Or i can keep eating out at restaurants and there is nothing you can do about it. It doesnt bother me that i dont believe in tipping because like i said i just dont leave one. To tell you the truth it is the cooks who really should get a tip, they do the real work.

[QUOTE="bigdrew172"]

[QUOTE="ramjam23"]

I dont do tips, they are getting paid to walk around and take orders, it is the same with delivery drivers, they are getting paid to drive. I hate it when you eat with a big group and they take gratuity, that always pisses me off.

Ignore this if you aren't from America. That's terrible... Delivery drivers are at least getting paid minimum wage, servers typically make at least $3 under minimum wage. If you don't like the tipping system don't eat out in restaurants where you are served by people.

Or i can keep eating out at restaurants and there is nothing you can do about it. It doesnt bother me that i dont believe in tipping because like i said i just dont leave one. To tell you the truth it is the cooks who really should get a tip, they do the real work.

Or i can keep eating out at restaurants and there is nothing you can do about it. It doesnt bother me that i dont believe in tipping because like i said i just dont leave one. To tell you the truth it is the cooks who really should get a tip, they do the real work.

ramjam23

You're right there is nothing that I can do about it. However, you do it enough time the managers will start to refuse you service. Also the quality of your service is goinig to be minimal at best. Hey as long as you can sleep at night is all that matters.

[QUOTE="ramjam23"]

Or i can keep eating out at restaurants and there is nothing you can do about it. It doesnt bother me that i dont believe in tipping because like i said i just dont leave one. To tell you the truth it is the cooks who really should get a tip, they do the real work.

bigdrew172

You're right there is nothing that I can do about it. However, you do it enough time the managers will start to refuse you service. Also the quality of your service is goinig to be minimal at best. Hey as long as you can sleep at night is all that matters.

They can't do that, oh that is funny. I have been living in the same town for years, and havent been regected yet. Besides i am always with someone and they tip, and the other half of the time i am with a big group and they take gratuity, so in a way i am forced to tip.

0%, they get paid anyway.

[QUOTE="bigdrew172"]

[QUOTE="ramjam23"]

Or i can keep eating out at restaurants and there is nothing you can do about it. It doesnt bother me that i dont believe in tipping because like i said i just dont leave one. To tell you the truth it is the cooks who really should get a tip, they do the real work.

You're right there is nothing that I can do about it. However, you do it enough time the managers will start to refuse you service. Also the quality of your service is goinig to be minimal at best. Hey as long as you can sleep at night is all that matters.

They can't do that, oh that is funny. I have been living in the same town for years, and havent been regected yet. Besides i am always with someone and they tip, and the other half of the time i am with a big group and they take gratuity, so in a way i am forced to tip.

15% at a restaurant where they come out and serve you food. If it feels like they couldn't even be bothered to behave / dress in a professional manner then I might be inclined to tip less, but in practice I rarely do that. They have to be particularly rude or inattentive (like making me wait 20 minutes before they come around and ask if I want a drink refill). If I have a food server who's a real jackass, I might be inclined not to tip at all. This is pretty rare.

I really hate how some fast food places will sometimes have a tip jar out and expect tips, as if they work they do is fundamentally different from working at a McDonald's or something. In actuality, fast food places that do this generally seem like they'd be easier to work at than most of the ones that don't. My thinking is kind of, "If you want tips then go work at a regular full service restaurant. I don't come to get fast food with the expectation of also paying a tip," but sometimes I will throw some change in there anyway.

I actually think the whole idea of tips in general is pretty stupid. I mean, I don't know why we have arbitrarily decided as a society that servers and delivery people should make most of their money from tips, unlike most other jobs. That's the established norm though, so whatever.

i'll leave a tip if i feel satisfied with my overall experience

Why should I pay you for doing your job? You aren't gonna pay me to do mine. That's my stance on it :)

[QUOTE="bigdrew172"]

You're right there is nothing that I can do about it. However, you do it enough time the managers will start to refuse you service. Also the quality of your service is goinig to be minimal at best. Hey as long as you can sleep at night is all that matters.

They can't do that, oh that is funny. I have been living in the same town for years, and havent been regected yet. Besides i am always with someone and they tip, and the other half of the time i am with a big group and they take gratuity, so in a way i am forced to tip.

Why should I pay you for doing your job? You aren't gonna pay me to do mine. That's my stance on it :)Espada12

Why should I pay you for doing your job? You aren't gonna pay me to do mine. That's my stance on it :)

Espada12

Exactly!

Why should I pay you for doing your job?

Espada12

Umm...because it's a job.

If I ask a dude to trim my hedges, I am expected to pay him.

If I ask a dude to wash my car, then I am expected to pay him when he does the job.

So...how is it that when you ask a waiter to give you service all night long, that suddenly now it's different and you don't have to pay him?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Why should I pay you for doing your job?

MrGeezer

Umm...because it's a job.

If I ask a dude to trim my hedges, I am expected to pay him.

If I ask a dude to wash my car, then I am expected to pay him when he does the job.

So...how is it that when you ask a waiter to give you service all night long, that suddenly now it's different and you don't have to pay him?

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]Why should I pay you for doing your job? You aren't gonna pay me to do mine. That's my stance on it :)andyboiii

Network admin.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Why should I pay you for doing your job?

Espada12

Umm...because it's a job.

If I ask a dude to trim my hedges, I am expected to pay him.

If I ask a dude to wash my car, then I am expected to pay him when he does the job.

So...how is it that when you ask a waiter to give you service all night long, that suddenly now it's different and you don't have to pay him?

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

I'm pretty generous and I have never gotten service that I would call "terrible."

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Umm...because it's a job.

If I ask a dude to trim my hedges, I am expected to pay him.

If I ask a dude to wash my car, then I am expected to pay him when he does the job.

So...how is it that when you ask a waiter to give you service all night long, that suddenly now it's different and you don't have to pay him?

MrGeezer

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

Me asking for anything or calling them it is thier job to answer me and it is their job to serve me, will you tip me for keeping the network stable all day? Would you tip me when your computer isn't working and I have to stop what I'm doing to help you? Who deemed waiters/tress to be the job of tips? Why don't you tip your garbage man? I mean he picks up your rubbish everyday. If I keep him busy all night then guess what that's his duties for the night. Do you think I should suddenly start giving everyone tips for doing what they were hired to? Would you tip a police officer for responding to a call you made? Would you tip him if he searched the area on your request? I ask again who decided what job needs to get tips and which doesn't?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Umm...because it's a job.

If I ask a dude to trim my hedges, I am expected to pay him.

If I ask a dude to wash my car, then I am expected to pay him when he does the job.

So...how is it that when you ask a waiter to give you service all night long, that suddenly now it's different and you don't have to pay him?

MrGeezer

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

I'm not defending the fact that he doesn't tip, but if a restaurant is of the position that you are obligated to tip, then the amount should be added to the bill, and it should be explicitly stated somewhere that a gratuity fee will be added. Some restaurants actually do this.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

Me asking for anything or calling them it is thier job to answer me and it is their job to serve me, will you tip me for keeping the network stable all day? Would you tip me when your computer isn't working and I have to stop what I'm doing to help you? Who deemed waiters/tress to be the job of tips? Why don't you tip your garbage man? I mean he picks up your rubbish everyday. If I keep him busy all night then guess what that's his duties for the night. Do you think I should suddenly start giving everyone tips for doing what they were hired to? Would you tip a police officer for responding to a call you made? Would you tip him if he searched the area on your request? I ask again who decided what job needs to get tips and which doesn't?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

rawsavon

Me asking for anything or calling them it is thier job to answer me and it is their job to serve me, will you tip me for keeping the network stable all day? Would you tip me when your computer isn't working and I have to stop what I'm doing to help you? Who deemed waiters/tress to be the job of tips? Why don't you tip your garbage man? I mean he picks up your rubbish everyday. If I keep him busy all night then guess what that's his duties for the night. Do you think I should suddenly start giving everyone tips for doing what they were hired to? Would you tip a police officer for responding to a call you made? Would you tip him if he searched the area on your request? I ask again who decided what job needs to get tips and which doesn't?

Yea I only have 9 people I'd actually call friends. What's it to you?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Umm...because it's a job.

If I ask a dude to trim my hedges, I am expected to pay him.

If I ask a dude to wash my car, then I am expected to pay him when he does the job.

So...how is it that when you ask a waiter to give you service all night long, that suddenly now it's different and you don't have to pay him?

MrGeezer

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

This would be true if serving staff were not paid by the restaurants...but they are, so it's entirely wrong. You pay them via what you pay for your food, which goes to the restaurant, who pay the staff. You only tip because they've done a good job and you'd like to show your appreciation, you don't have to give them anything if you dont want.

Personally, i tend to tip relatively generously, but not as much as you guys, it seems. Almost every restaurant in the UK charges "service charge" at the end of the bill, and it's usally quite a lot, at least 12%, so i rarely pay more unless the service/staff are amazing. That said, sometimes the service sucks and i get annoyed at being charged for it, so i refuse to pay the additional 12%

One time though, I was in a restaurant and the service was horrific. We waited ages, our food came at different times (ie, more than an hour apart), when it arrived, some was cold...etc etc. So instead of not leaving a tip, which might have implied we forgot/just don't tip...we left a tip of like a penny...just to make sure they know how annoyed we were :D

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

SpaceMoose

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

I'm not defending the fact that he doesn't tip, but if a restaurant is of the position that you are obligated to tip, then the amount should be added to the bill, and it should be explicitly stated somewhere that a gratuity fee will be added. Some restaurants actually do this.

Nope. Tipping is expected. Everyone knows this, and that's how restaurants can get away with paying their waiters $3 an hour. The fact that they don't put a specific amount on your bill does not in any way mean that you aren't supposed to tip.

Nope. Tipping is expected. Everyone knows this, and that's how restaurants can get away with paying their waiters $3 an hour. The fact that they don't put a specific amount on your bill does not in any way mean that you aren't supposed to tip.

MrGeezer

If they want tipping then why don't they do something with their lives and get a better job.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Me asking for anything or calling them it is thier job to answer me and it is their job to serve me, will you tip me for keeping the network stable all day? Would you tip me when your computer isn't working and I have to stop what I'm doing to help you? Who deemed waiters/tress to be the job of tips? Why don't you tip your garbage man? I mean he picks up your rubbish everyday. If I keep him busy all night then guess what that's his duties for the night. Do you think I should suddenly start giving everyone tips for doing what they were hired to? Would you tip a police officer for responding to a call you made? Would you tip him if he searched the area on your request? I ask again who decided what job needs to get tips and which doesn't?

Yea I only have 9 people I'd actually call friends. What's it to you?

Usually 20%, but more if it was good service. I have worked in the restaurant business, I think most people who have usually leave a decent tip.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

You are the employer in those cases, the nature of this thread assumes me in the position of a customer deciding whether or not to leave a tip. Also I don't ask the waiter to give me service, he is REQUIRED TO that's his job.

shaunk89

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

This would be true if serving staff were not paid by the restaurants...but they are, so it's entirely wrong. You pay them via what you pay for your food, which goes to the restaurant, who pay the staff. You only tip because they've done a good job and you'd like to show your appreciation, you don't have to give them anything if you dont want.

Personally, i tend to tip relatively generously, but not as much as you guys, it seems. Almost every restaurant in the UK charges "service charge" at the end of the bill, and it's usally quite a lot, at least 12%, so i rarely pay more unless the service/staff are amazing. That said, sometimes the service sucks and i get annoyed at being charged for it, so i refuse to pay the additional 12%

One time though, I was in a restaurant and the service was horrific. We waited ages, our food came at different times (ie, more than an hour apart), when it arrived, some was cold...etc etc. So instead of not leaving a tip, which might have implied we forgot/just don't tip...we left a tip of like a penny...just to make sure they know how annoyed we were :D

You are absolutely wrong. Period. Most restaurants with wait-staff pay their waiters WELL below minimum wage. The price of food and drinks does NOT adequately compensate the waiters for their work, and the only way for them to be adequately compensate them through wages would be to significantly RAISE the price of the food and drinks.

And guess what? If that were to happen, then the customers are STILL paying for the waiters to work, only now it's being channeled through a middle-man.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Nope. Tipping is expected. Everyone knows this, and that's how restaurants can get away with paying their waiters $3 an hour. The fact that they don't put a specific amount on your bill does not in any way mean that you aren't supposed to tip.

CBR600-RR

If they want tipping then why don't they do something with their lives and get a better job.

Something tells me that you aren't doing much better, if you can't even afford to tip.

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

If you ask for anything, then you're asking for service. Want an extra drink? You're asking for service. Want some extra napkins? You're asking for service. It is an undeniable FACT that the very act of going into the restaurant and getting a table is equal to seeking out his service. Because before you ever walk in the door, you know what kinds of services will be performed and you know that he won't be compensated for his work unless you pay him directly.

There is absolutely no getting around that. You know the nature of the service, and you know that they are compensated for their work in tips. If you have a problem with how that works, then you are free to not dine at that restaurant. But you dine there anyway, knowing in advance that you're getting someone to work for you, and knowing in advance that when the job is done, you're going to walk out without paying them. And that is indefensible. There's just no excuse.

You get a service, you pay for it. That's how things work. If you don't like how the payment system is set up, then you're free not to use the facilities. But once you agree to use the facilities, knowing full-well how the payment system is set up, then you are expected to pay for the service that YOU requested.

MrGeezer

I'm not defending the fact that he doesn't tip, but if a restaurant is of the position that you are obligated to tip, then the amount should be added to the bill, and it should be explicitly stated somewhere that a gratuity fee will be added. Some restaurants actually do this.

Nope. Tipping is expected. Everyone knows this, and that's how restaurants can get away with paying their waiters $3 an hour. The fact that they don't put a specific amount on your bill does not in any way mean that you aren't supposed to tip.

If you hire someone to clean your carpets or move your furniture and then don't pay them, you could end up in court over it. You can't sue someone for not paying a voluntary tip. Thus the idea that there is the same level of agreement on this as there is with every other service is exaggerated, at best.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] Did anyone else notice that the people saying they get bad service are the ones not leaving tips...weird... You probably don't have many friends huh?rawsavon

Yea I only have 9 people I'd actually call friends. What's it to you?

If they are paid less that minimum they should take it up with the government or a union or something, I don't understand how I'm treating him wrongly in the slighest way, I'm not being rude, I'm not causing him strain but yet they expect me to pay them for doing thier jobs? How is that fair that this is expected of me and is looked down upon if you don't do it? Why should I shell out extra money just because someone is expecting me to? I understand that thier job is obviously one of the bottom feeders in terms of pay,but more than anything that should be motivation for them to get thier life in order.

Some people here are such jerks about this. Waiters get paid well below national minimum wage, and it is not nice at all. These people bust their ass to get you whatever you want, in doubletime. Just leave some god damn bills on the table, its a tough job, and in this ecnonomy, how could you say "get a better job", these people work to live, just like you.

In Europe, waiters get paid much better, and in the UK a service charge is usually added. In america, waiters get paid terribly, so don't be an ass, leave a tip.

By the way, in the United States, if a person does not make enough in tips to compensate for the difference in wage between a server's wage and the normal minimum wage, then they must be paid at least minimum wage. They'll probably end up getting fired though, of course...

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]

I'm not defending the fact that he doesn't tip, but if a restaurant is of the position that you are obligated to tip, then the amount should be added to the bill, and it should be explicitly stated somewhere that a gratuity fee will be added. Some restaurants actually do this.

SpaceMoose

Nope. Tipping is expected. Everyone knows this, and that's how restaurants can get away with paying their waiters $3 an hour. The fact that they don't put a specific amount on your bill does not in any way mean that you aren't supposed to tip.

If you hire someone to clean your carpets or move your furniture and then don't pay them, you could end up in court over it. You can't sue someone for not paying a voluntary tip. Thus the idea that there is the same level of agreement on this as there is with every other service is exaggerated, at best.

It's absolutely a MORAL obligation, as EVERY single person who stiffs waitstaff due to stinginess knows EXACTLY how the system is set up.

They then rant and rave all about how "oh, I don't tip because I don't believe in the tip system, blah blah blah."

But when it comes down to it, how many of these people are actually trying to CHANGE the way waiters are paid? That's right, approximately 0% of them. For all their complaining about how the system sucks, they take advantage of it. They reap all the benefits of it, and then don't say a word of complaint until it's time to pay up. Then they're all like, "I don't believe in tips" solely as an excuse to avoid having to pay for a service that they themselves intentionally sought out.

I never said that there is a LEGAL obligation to tip, but there is sure as hell a MORAL obligation to tip. And it IS expected, and no one can claim ignorance as to not being aware how the system works.

It's one thing to not tip if the service sucked. That's fine. But ANYONE who knowingly screws the waitstaff just because they "don't believe in tipping" is a scumbag, period. If you don't believe in tipping, then you don't have to eat out.

Some people here are such jerks about this. Waiters get paid well below national minimum wage, and it is not nice at all. These people bust their ass to get you whatever you want, in doubletime. Just leave some god damn bills on the table, its a tough job, and in this ecnonomy, how could you say "get a better job", these people work to live, just like you.Shmiity

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Yea I only have 9 people I'd actually call friends. What's it to you?

If they are paid less that minimum they should take it up with the government or a union or something, I don't understand how I'm treating him wrongly in the slighest way, I'm not being rude, I'm not causing him strain but yet they expect me to pay them for doing thier jobs? How is that fair that this is expected of me and is looked down upon if you don't do it? Why should I shell out extra money just because someone is expecting me to? I understand that thier job is obviously one of the bottom feeders in terms of pay,but more than anything that should be motivation for them to get thier life in order.

I tip well, but I read something that opened my eyes. The US guidelines and wages poster at my job. If you are a waiter/waitress in America, you are allowed to be paid a lower wage plus tips, but if you don't get at least the minimum wage in both wages and tips for your job period collectively, your employer must reimburse you to make up the difference up to minimum wage for that period. Hmmm...

So now it seems, waiters/waitress's are the winners. I don't get tips for working in a gas station, but now I think I'd kinda like it over base pay!

I tip between 15 and 20 percent. I cannot remember the last time I did not leave a tip, or if I ever have not left one.