When will America crumble?

we're a cookie?

When it's more cost effective to ship manufactured goods in from the other side of the globe than to make them within our own borders...

When we let Canada get to powerful, then they'll run us off and bring in the tanks, we should really look into moving them further away from us with a lake of fire and gasoline or a electric lake wis gasoline burning under it.

DazedDarkness

It's not going to crumble any time soon, but this idea of having constantly to be seen as #1 is going to become more difficult to maintain.

It wont. I wont allow that to happen.

bigblunt537

A. The United States will not "crumble." We will simply decline to a position that is less important than the one we currently hold.

B. The United States is not an empire. Owning land on other continents does equate to being an empire. Yes, we have military bases around the world, but they are strategically placed. It's an unfortunate reality that rogue states do exist; somebody has to deal with them, and it's not going to be the EU, China, India, Russia or Brazil. The United States has 233 years of peaceful transitions of power, excepting the Civil War which failed anyways, and the longest-standing constitution in the world. As much as this might piss some people off, we have proven that we have the rationality and the political stability to interject our influence into important global issues. It's not like we specifically planned to be the only country that wasn't absolutely decimated after World War 2, and then become a historic superpower. It simply evolved that way as more and more recovering nations depended on us for reconstruction, political guidance, and financial stability. Seeing as how we are, and have been, the hegemonic power, we have a duty to assert ourselves when problems like nuclear proliferation and terrorist threats come into the picture and threaten our security, as well as the peaceful functionality of the global system. What do you want us to do...just unconditionally give away our power? No other country would ever do that, and neither should the United States be expected to. We are criticized when we don't try to solve problems, and we're criticized when we do try to solve problems. The 'bame America' game just doesn't cut it. It's a complete farce.

its_me_

The worst it will get is when all the countries are under the thumb of the UN and there will be a true 1 world government. I don't think its too far off.

As seen in history, pretty much all great empires fall. For example, Persian Empire, Roman Empire, etc (which did not fall just because of war but for other reasons like running out of basically money). When will it be the United States turn? Also if the US was broken up and every single state became its own country (hypothetically) which state would take control of the majority of the other states?

l0ve

who says we are an empire? Sure, we might be waging war in two countries but we are certainly not an empire.

when we do "fall", its not going to be the crash and burn everyone expects. We will simply slip from number one, to number two.

as for the states breaking up, I dont think any state will take control of another. But I'd have to say California

Countries these days decline. The don't collapse.cd_rom

Very soon I think. I think there will be another American civil war soon...optiow

[QUOTE="cd_rom"]Countries these days decline. The don't collapse.Ontain

they were also communist and lost the cold war by overspending

so i would be more concerned with china than the US in terms of collapsing. And India, to an extent

[QUOTE="optiow"]Very soon I think. I think there will be another American civil war soon...Ontain

jesus h christ there is not going to be another civil war.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="optiow"]Very soon I think. I think there will be another American civil war soon...mrbojangles25

jesus h christ there is not going to be another civil war.

There will never be another civil war unless there is a HUGE shift in the mind set of the people and we all start thinking differently from one another. Look at it this way. I'm from NY and I have NO REASON to kill anyone from another state. you are all my country brothers and sisters. We all fight together in the military we all visit each others lands. The only place that nobody likes is New Jersey, but that's understandable. In all seriousness no Americans mindset is going to change that drastically where we all start killing each other for no reason. As far as I'm concerned we are all one and not 50.

The only place that nobody likes is New Jersey, but that's understandable. bigblunt537

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Ontain"] between who? what are the sides? unless it's between the rich and the poor then both sides are being played.bigblunt537

jesus h christ there is not going to be another civil war.

There will never be another civil war unless there is a HUGE shift in the mind set of the people and we all start thinking differently from one another. Look at it this way. I'm from NY and I have NO REASON to kill anyone from another state. you are all my country brothers and sisters. We all fight together in the military we all visit each others lands. The only place that nobody likes is New Jersey, but that's understandable. In all seriousness no Americans mindset is going to change that drastically where we all start killing each other for no reason. As far as I'm concerned we are all one and not 50.

exactly, I mean I might like my home state a helluva lot more than anywhere else, but damn, man, we are all brothers and sisters like you said. We vacation to other states and stuff, at my job I meet people from all over the US and theyre great. We all have too much in common to be fighting each other

honestly, for there to be a genuine civil war, we would need the government to become a regime and essentially declare martial law on the US. I am sure some states would be sympathetic to the government, as would the military, but for the most part everyone else would fight against the government and thats more of a rebellion than civil war.

And, again, the likelihood of that actually happening is virtually nil. We could see the regime coming from a mile away and prevent it.

[QUOTE="bigblunt537"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

jesus h christ there is not going to be another civil war.

mrbojangles25

There will never be another civil war unless there is a HUGE shift in the mind set of the people and we all start thinking differently from one another. Look at it this way. I'm from NY and I have NO REASON to kill anyone from another state. you are all my country brothers and sisters. We all fight together in the military we all visit each others lands. The only place that nobody likes is New Jersey, but that's understandable. In all seriousness no Americans mindset is going to change that drastically where we all start killing each other for no reason. As far as I'm concerned we are all one and not 50.

exactly, I mean I might like my home state a helluva lot more than anywhere else, but damn, man, we are all brothers and sisters like you said. We vacation to other states and stuff, at my job I meet people from all over the US and theyre great. We all have too much in common to be fighting each other

honestly, for there to be a genuine civil war, we would need the government to become a regime and essentially declare martial law on the US. I am sure some states would be sympathetic to the government, as would the military, but for the most part everyone else would fight against the government and thats more of a rebellion than civil war.

And, again, the likelihood of that actually happening is virtually nil. We could see the regime coming from a mile away and prevent it.

Especially with the 200 million guns floating around civilians hands in the United states. lol

[QUOTE="bigblunt537"] The only place that nobody likes is New Jersey, but that's understandable. fidosim

Thank you. I try my best!

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="bigblunt537"]

There will never be another civil war unless there is a HUGE shift in the mind set of the people and we all start thinking differently from one another. Look at it this way. I'm from NY and I have NO REASON to kill anyone from another state. you are all my country brothers and sisters. We all fight together in the military we all visit each others lands. The only place that nobody likes is New Jersey, but that's understandable. In all seriousness no Americans mindset is going to change that drastically where we all start killing each other for no reason. As far as I'm concerned we are all one and not 50.

bigblunt537

exactly, I mean I might like my home state a helluva lot more than anywhere else, but damn, man, we are all brothers and sisters like you said. We vacation to other states and stuff, at my job I meet people from all over the US and theyre great. We all have too much in common to be fighting each other

honestly, for there to be a genuine civil war, we would need the government to become a regime and essentially declare martial law on the US. I am sure some states would be sympathetic to the government, as would the military, but for the most part everyone else would fight against the government and thats more of a rebellion than civil war.

And, again, the likelihood of that actually happening is virtually nil. We could see the regime coming from a mile away and prevent it.

Especially with the 200 million guns floating around civilians hands in the United states. lol

exactly lol.

Hell, in the Central Valley they keep guns and ammo in their cars. I know exactly where I am going in the event of an armed conflict.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="cd_rom"]Countries these days decline. The don't collapse.mrbojangles25

they were also communist and lost the cold war by overspending

so i would be more concerned with china than the US in terms of collapsing. And India, to an extent

The U.S. isn't going to crumble, it's just going to decline. Other nations like China, Russia, India, Brazil and the EU will all start taking a more prominent place on the world stage in place of the United States. The world is becomeing more multipolar.

We are the only country to have bases everywherre lol. I blame it on Japan they attacked us when we did not want to join the war. Then We came over and kicked ass so know we think we are awesome.

POPEYE1716

Oh believe you me that Roosevelt did everything in his power to get involved in WWII. For that reason were the sanctions put on Japan that were employed back then.

[QUOTE="POPEYE1716"]

We are the only country to have bases everywherre lol. I blame it on Japan they attacked us when we did not want to join the war. Then We came over and kicked ass so know we think we are awesome.

_R34LiTY_

Oh believe you me that Roosevelt did everything in his power to get involved in WWII. For that reason were the sanctions put on Japan that were employed back then.

A petroleum embargo because Japan was trying to take over China? If Roosevelt wanted to get involved all they had to do was join Britains side, the trade embargo was not an act of war.

America will never fall.

We are eternal!

Nah, just joking. At some point like all strong civilizations, it will fall. I just hope it isn't during my lifetime.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Ontain"] the USSR collapsed. Ontain

they were also communist and lost the cold war by overspending

so i would be more concerned with china than the US in terms of collapsing. And India, to an extent

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

they were also communist and lost the cold war by overspending

so i would be more concerned with china than the US in terms of collapsing. And India, to an extent

l0ve

Which means if China ever goes under and tries tocollect on any of those treasury bonds the US will be an instant 3rd world country.

[QUOTE="cd_rom"]Countries these days decline. The don't collapse.Saturos3091

I call a country that has over 700 military bases around the world an empire in disguise. The U.S. is without a doubt a manipulative empire and to those who don't live within the U.S. its quite obvious.

I think the U.S. will decline in around 50 years, as will the rest of the planet.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Ontain"] the USSR collapsed. Ontain

they were also communist and lost the cold war by overspending

so i would be more concerned with china than the US in terms of collapsing. And India, to an extent

true, but we are not in an arm's race (something we cannot drop out of)and we can pull back before its too late. Many would argue we need to do that now, but there is still time.

It seems like a lot of people are looking forward to and wishing for the collapse of the US. Honestly, I doubt it will collapse, at least not within my lifetime. Although the economy is a little shaky these days, it takes a little bit more than a recession to destroy a country. Heck, we've even been through a full blown depression before, but we bounced back from that.

It seems like a lot of people are looking forward to and wishing for the collapse of the US. Honestly, I doubt it will collapse, at least not within my lifetime. Although the economy is a little shaky these days, it takes a little bit more than a recession to destroy a country. Heck, we've even been through a full blown depression before, but we bounced back from that.

jubino

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

they were also communist and lost the cold war by overspending

so i would be more concerned with china than the US in terms of collapsing. And India, to an extent

mrbojangles25

true, but we are not in an arm's race (something we cannot drop out of)and we can pull back before its too late. Many would argue we need to do that now, but there is still time.

Bojangles, I admire your optimism and the many others who say that "America will never collapse, maybe just decline." However, that is a very naive thing to say, and it is just as foolish to say as: "America will definately collapse, it's the end of the world". There are no absolutes in the future, but I personally believe the U.S. is headed towards its own destruction for various historical, economic, political, and logical reasons. If the U.S. does have a Roman-like fall, it will send the entire modern world and prehaps all of humanity into some of its darkest days, due to Globalization and the presence of nuclear weaponry.

On the question of "Is America an Empire?" , that is certainly a yes. I would say an empire is not defined by how much physical land it has, but by the militaristic, economic, and cultural dominance/expansion it has. Lets look at each catagory;):

Military: The United States is the only nation with military installations around the world, to the tune of 700+. The USSR collapsed almost 20 years ago, and we still need all of that power projection? For what? We also have 11 Supercarriers with the sole purpose of naval dominance. What is the need to dominate the Sea with the largest Navy/Carrier force in the world? Not not even Russia or China had anywhere near that number of GIANT carriers, yet we still built more. We are acountry fighting two of the longest wars in its history and also out spend Russia, China, Brtain, France, and India combined in terms of defense spending. This is what I would call Military Over-expansionism. The Romans did suffer from this against the Gauls in the latter part of their history, just like the USSR during the Cold War.

Economy: Our currency the USD is the World Reserve Currency.This gives the U.S. unmatched purchasing power and makes it much easier for us to go into debt without consequences(somewhat). It also makes us vital to the world economy due to the circulation of Dollars, Oil being traded in the USD, and the World's second and third largest economies having a masssive holding of U.S. Treasury Bonds. We have made ourselves an economic hegemony, and have become truely vital to the rest of the world for the most part. We go down, most every1 else does too. This certainly does not mean we are invincible, as we may soon discover.

Cultural: Too damn long to explain, but stuff like Hollywood, Elvis, Micheal Jackson, U.S.Constitution, etc.I think you guys can at least agree with me on this one :P

I view history as the most epic story of all time. The lesson the U.S. may teach we currently living people? You reap what you sow. A priceless lesson that many people do learn. None of this is certainly certain though:P and we all have to just wait and see. Just my 2 cents ;)

The worst it will get is when all the countries are under the thumb of the UN and there will be a true 1 world government. I don't think its too far off.

DaBrainz

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]

The worst it will get is when all the countries are under the thumb of the UN and there will be a true 1 world government. I don't think its too far off.

ZookGuy

Not for a long time. I'm guessing a hundred years at least. Too bad nobody will be alive to know! NHURK!hamstergeddon

You may eat those words. Never say never, and that goes for all sides ;)

Bojangles, I admire your optimism and the many others who say that "America will never collapse, maybe just decline." However, that is a very naive thing to say, and it is just as foolish to say as: "America will definately collapse, it's the end of the world". There are no absolutes in the future, but I personally believe the U.S. is headed towards its own destruction for various historical, economic, political, and logical reasons. If the U.S. does have a Roman-like fall, it will send the entire modern world and prehaps all of humanity into some of its darkest days, due to Globalization and the presence of nuclear weaponry.

On the question of "Is America an Empire?" , that is certainly a yes. I would say an empire is not defined by how much physical land it has, but by the militaristic, economic, and cultural dominance/expansion it has. Lets look at each catagory;):

Military: The United States is the only nation with military installations around the world, to the tune of 700+. The USSR collapsed almost 20 years ago, and we still need all of that power projection? For what? We also have 11 Supercarriers with the sole purpose of naval dominance. What is the need to dominate the Sea with the largest Navy/Carrier force in the world? Not not even Russia or China had anywhere near that number of GIANT carriers, yet we still built more. We are acountry fighting two of the longest wars in its history and also out spend Russia, China, Brtain, France, and India combined in terms of defense spending. This is what I would call Military Over-expansionism. The Romans did suffer from this against the Gauls in the latter part of their history, just like the USSR during the Cold War.

On3ShotOneKill

Military expansion is a requirement in order to keep a stable nation/empire. Look at EVERY great empire in history. Every one that stopped expansion and conquest and instead focused on "peace" collapsed because of internal affairs or lack of military power. The British, Persians, Romans, Chinese, Nazis, Incans, etc. all focused on military expansion in the first parts of their history and then slowly declined after that. Empires need to flex military muscle every once in a while in order to keep stable.

Military expansion is a requirement in order to keep a stable nation/empire. Look at EVERY great empire in history. Every one that stopped expansion and conquest and instead focused on "peace" collapsed because of internal affairs or lack of military power. The British, Persians, Romans, Chinese, Nazis, Incans, etc. all focused on military expansion in the first parts of their history and then slowly declined after that. Empires need to flex military muscle every once in a while in order to keep stable.

gamesock

Actually, every single one of your example empires declined due to circumstances that couldn't be resolved through the conventional military means they used so extensively.

Hearts and minds and all that good stuff. If a nation lets their guns do the talking, nobody is going to like them very much, and they won't last very long.

I don't see the U.S. crumbling anytime soon, but I do think that it is very possible that a very bad period for America is in our near future if sanity doesn't return to the political discourse. -Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="bigblunt537"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

jesus h christ there is not going to be another civil war.

mrbojangles25

There will never be another civil war unless there is a HUGE shift in the mind set of the people and we all start thinking differently from one another. Look at it this way. I'm from NY and I have NO REASON to kill anyone from another state. you are all my country brothers and sisters. We all fight together in the military we all visit each others lands. The only place that nobody likes is New Jersey, but that's understandable. In all seriousness no Americans mindset is going to change that drastically where we all start killing each other for no reason. As far as I'm concerned we are all one and not 50.

exactly, I mean I might like my home state a helluva lot more than anywhere else, but damn, man, we are all brothers and sisters like you said. We vacation to other states and stuff, at my job I meet people from all over the US and theyre great. We all have too much in common to be fighting each other

honestly, for there to be a genuine civil war, we would need the government to become a regime and essentially declare martial law on the US. I am sure some states would be sympathetic to the government, as would the military, but for the most part everyone else would fight against the government and thats more of a rebellion than civil war.

And, again, the likelihood of that actually happening is virtually nil. We could see the regime coming from a mile away and prevent it.