When will America crumble?

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Ontain"] but it's the US that is overspending these days.On3ShotOneKill

true, but we are not in an arm's race (something we cannot drop out of)and we can pull back before its too late. Many would argue we need to do that now, but there is still time.

Bojangles, I admire your optimism and the many others who say that "America will never collapse, maybe just decline." However, that is a very naive thing to say, and it is just as foolish to say as: "America will definately collapse, it's the end of the world". There are no absolutes in the future, but I personally believe the U.S. is headed towards its own destruction for various historical, economic, political, and logical reasons. If the U.S. does have a Roman-like fall, it will send the entire modern world and prehaps all of humanity into some of its darkest days, due to Globalization and the presence of nuclear weaponry.

On the question of "Is America an Empire?" , that is certainly a yes. I would say an empire is not defined by how much physical land it has, but by the militaristic, economic, and cultural dominance/expansion it has. Lets look at each catagory;):

Military: The United States is the only nation with military installations around the world, to the tune of 700+. The USSR collapsed almost 20 years ago, and we still need all of that power projection? For what? We also have 11 Supercarriers with the sole purpose of naval dominance. What is the need to dominate the Sea with the largest Navy/Carrier force in the world? Not not even Russia or China had anywhere near that number of GIANT carriers, yet we still built more. We are acountry fighting two of the longest wars in its history and also out spend Russia, China, Brtain, France, and India combined in terms of defense spending. This is what I would call Military Over-expansionism. The Romans did suffer from this against the Gauls in the latter part of their history, just like the USSR during the Cold War.

Economy: Our currency the USD is the World Reserve Currency.This gives the U.S. unmatched purchasing power and makes it much easier for us to go into debt without consequences(somewhat). It also makes us vital to the world economy due to the circulation of Dollars, Oil being traded in the USD, and the World's second and third largest economies having a masssive holding of U.S. Treasury Bonds. We have made ourselves an economic hegemony, and have become truely vital to the rest of the world for the most part. We go down, most every1 else does too. This certainly does not mean we are invincible, as we may soon discover.

Cultural: Too damn long to explain, but stuff like Hollywood, Elvis, Micheal Jackson, U.S.Constitution, etc.I think you guys can at least agree with me on this one :P

I view history as the most epic story of all time. The lesson the U.S. may teach we currently living people? You reap what you sow. A priceless lesson that many people do learn. None of this is certainly certain though:P and we all have to just wait and see. Just my 2 cents ;)

The decline of American began January 20th, 2009 (just my opinion).Unassigned

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]

The worst it will get is when all the countries are under the thumb of the UN and there will be a true 1 world government. I don't think its too far off.

ZookGuy

They have the power to rule over the US if the US gives them the power, which my crystal ball states that it will happen as the western socialized countries all fall in linewith the same policies. Its like how the federal government used to not have a lot of power, with a strong state government, the decline of the state meets the rise of the country. The decline of the country meet the rise of the UN.

The decline of American began January 20th, 2009 (just my opinion).Unassigned

[QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"]

Bojangles, I admire your optimism and the many others who say that "America will never collapse, maybe just decline." However, that is a very naive thing to say, and it is just as foolish to say as: "America will definately collapse, it's the end of the world". There are no absolutes in the future, but I personally believe the U.S. is headed towards its own destruction for various historical, economic, political, and logical reasons. If the U.S. does have a Roman-like fall, it will send the entire modern world and prehaps all of humanity into some of its darkest days, due to Globalization and the presence of nuclear weaponry.

On the question of "Is America an Empire?" , that is certainly a yes. I would say an empire is not defined by how much physical land it has, but by the militaristic, economic, and cultural dominance/expansion it has. Lets look at each catagory;):

Military: The United States is the only nation with military installations around the world, to the tune of 700+. The USSR collapsed almost 20 years ago, and we still need all of that power projection? For what? We also have 11 Supercarriers with the sole purpose of naval dominance. What is the need to dominate the Sea with the largest Navy/Carrier force in the world? Not not even Russia or China had anywhere near that number of GIANT carriers, yet we still built more. We are acountry fighting two of the longest wars in its history and also out spend Russia, China, Brtain, France, and India combined in terms of defense spending. This is what I would call Military Over-expansionism. The Romans did suffer from this against the Gauls in the latter part of their history, just like the USSR during the Cold War.

gamesock

Military expansion is a requirement in order to keep a stable nation/empire. Look at EVERY great empire in history. Every one that stopped expansion and conquest and instead focused on "peace" collapsed because of internal affairs or lack of military power. The British, Persians, Romans, Chinese, Nazis, Incans, etc. all focused on military expansion in the first parts of their history and then slowly declined after that. Empires need to flex military muscle every once in a while in order to keep stable.

Over expansion puts a strain on a nation-state's economy, military and morale. Everyone of the empires you mentioned had to wind down or collapse mostly for this reason.

"The British, Persians, Romans, Chinese, Nazis, Incans, etc. all focused on military expansion in the first parts of their history and then slowly declined after that."

What? The Nazi military was not over extended until WWII. It was fighting on 3 fronts alone for the most part, against enemies that severely outnumbered them. The British had too many colonies, insurgencies, and revolutions, which is why it had to wind down and give up places like India. The Romans expanded too quickly as well and were fighting the Gauls for too long which resulted in overspending and revolt. Same goes for all the examples you provided (they just collapsed/slowly went down for different reasons).

There is always a need for a country to have a strong military/national defense, but it does not have to partake in imperial policies.

[QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

true, but we are not in an arm's race (something we cannot drop out of)and we can pull back before its too late. Many would argue we need to do that now, but there is still time.

l0ve

Bojangles, I admire your optimism and the many others who say that "America will never collapse, maybe just decline." However, that is a very naive thing to say, and it is just as foolish to say as: "America will definately collapse, it's the end of the world". There are no absolutes in the future, but I personally believe the U.S. is headed towards its own destruction for various historical, economic, political, and logical reasons. If the U.S. does have a Roman-like fall, it will send the entire modern world and prehaps all of humanity into some of its darkest days, due to Globalization and the presence of nuclear weaponry.

On the question of "Is America an Empire?" , that is certainly a yes. I would say an empire is not defined by how much physical land it has, but by the militaristic, economic, and cultural dominance/expansion it has. Lets look at each catagory;):

Military: The United States is the only nation with military installations around the world, to the tune of 700+. The USSR collapsed almost 20 years ago, and we still need all of that power projection? For what? We also have 11 Supercarriers with the sole purpose of naval dominance. What is the need to dominate the Sea with the largest Navy/Carrier force in the world? Not not even Russia or China had anywhere near that number of GIANT carriers, yet we still built more. We are acountry fighting two of the longest wars in its history and also out spend Russia, China, Brtain, France, and India combined in terms of defense spending. This is what I would call Military Over-expansionism. The Romans did suffer from this against the Gauls in the latter part of their history, just like the USSR during the Cold War.

Economy: Our currency the USD is the World Reserve Currency.This gives the U.S. unmatched purchasing power and makes it much easier for us to go into debt without consequences(somewhat). It also makes us vital to the world economy due to the circulation of Dollars, Oil being traded in the USD, and the World's second and third largest economies having a masssive holding of U.S. Treasury Bonds. We have made ourselves an economic hegemony, and have become truely vital to the rest of the world for the most part. We go down, most every1 else does too. This certainly does not mean we are invincible, as we may soon discover.

Cultural: Too damn long to explain, but stuff like Hollywood, Elvis, Micheal Jackson, U.S.Constitution, etc.I think you guys can at least agree with me on this one :P

I view history as the most epic story of all time. The lesson the U.S. may teach we currently living people? You reap what you sow. A priceless lesson that many people do learn. None of this is certainly certain though:P and we all have to just wait and see. Just my 2 cents ;)

lol

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Why would we crumble? EU is in much worse shape. Why can't they crumble? And since when have we been an empire? :|

Aren't you the only country to own land that isn't connected to your mainland or even close to it atm?

In a few minutes.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Why would we crumble? EU is in much worse shape. Why can't they crumble? And since when have we been an empire? :|

UnamedThing

Aren't you the only country to own land that isn't connected to your mainland or even close to it atm?

Try reading all the responses before making stupid comments ok?

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Why would we crumble? EU is in much worse shape. Why can't they crumble? And since when have we been an empire? :|

Aren't you the only country to own land that isn't connected to your mainland or even close to it atm?

[QUOTE="l0ve"][QUOTE="Ontain"] but it's the US that is overspending these days.DaBrainz

Which means if China ever goes under and tries tocollect on any of those treasury bonds the US will be an instant 3rd world country.

well i would think that if china tried to collect all money right away we would have a huge war..........

Well America is actually literally crumbling. We have some of the worst infrastructure in the developed western world right now. Most of our highways and bridges were only meant to last for 50 years, and we're coming up close to 50 years. Massive bridge collapses have happened in the past and will be more frequent in the future. Our levees can't sustain much longer such as in the California Delta where an earthquake would completely sink the delta as well as contaminate the drinking water for all of SoCal with salt water. Most of the levees in Sacramento are shoddy and were made by farmers 100 years ago, if they fail most of the city will be underwater. Thousands of dams go unregulated, some states with thousands of dams don't have any personnel to evaluate them.

Our pipes underground that carry our drinking water and provide water for fire hydrants are failing. There have been instances where firemen couldn't put out fires because there wasn't enough water pressure to get fire hydrants to work. A lot of our water is contaminated and unhealthy and it will only get worse. Also the electric grid will no longer be able to sustain the demand for electricity soon as the government is not taking the steps to improve the grid. Blackouts are going to be more frequent, such as the one in New York a few years ago, even brown outs could start occurring unless we make some changes.

This country does not invest well in its homeland, it's infrastructure. Countries like China and India are pulling ahead of us infrastructure wise with better bridges, faster highways, etc and these things help not only the people but the economy as well.

You'll end up like the UK... Owning 3/4 of the world, then suddenly owning less than 1/20. th3warr1or

Well America is actually literally crumbling. We have some of the worst infrastructure in the developed western world right now. Most of our highways and bridges were only meant to last for 50 years, and we're coming up close to 50 years. Massive bridge collapses have happened in the past and will be more frequent in the future. Our levees can't sustain much longer such as in the California Delta where an earthquake would completely sink the delta as well as contaminate the drinking water for all of SoCal with salt water. Most of the levees in Sacramento are shoddy and were made by farmers 100 years ago, if they fail most of the city will be underwater. Thousands of dams go unregulated, some states with thousands of dams don't have any personnel to evaluate them.

Our pipes underground that carry our drinking water and provide water for fire hydrants are failing. There have been instances where firemen couldn't put out fires because there wasn't enough water pressure to get fire hydrants to work. A lot of our water is contaminated and unhealthy and it will only get worse. Also the electric grid will no longer be able to sustain the demand for electricity soon as the government is not taking the steps to improve the grid. Blackouts are going to be more frequent, such as the one in New York a few years ago, even brown outs could start occurring unless we make some changes.

This country does not invest well in its homeland, it's infrastructure. Countries like China and India are pulling ahead of us infrastructure wise with better bridges, faster highways, etc and these things help not only the people but the economy as well.

jazznate